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Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 28 2008,13:56) Bewitched? I'm not into Wicca. I'm into my fellow man and the evidence of God found therein. That and creation itself and the wonders yet to be revealed. I than my Creator for the beauty of it all.
Kejonn, after reading a few of your latest posts I've been wondering if you still affirm the following:“…Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures.” (1 Cor 15:3-4)
One look at the “group” status would give you the answer Is
. With so much in doubt in the bible, there really is little reason to believe that some human was raised from the dead.Quote (942767 @ Mar. 23 2008,14:16) Hi KJ: Relative to these statements below:
Quote Quote (942767 @ Mar. 22 2008,20:33)
Hi KJ:As you say the Ten Commandments are mostly common sense, but do men who do not know God live by them?
Do people who “know” God live by them either? I can tell you through personal experience that the answer is an overall “no”. Most of the Christians I know are just people who say they have certain beliefs. For the most part the rest of their lives are little different than good, moral non-Christians.
People that profess to be Christians and are not living the life are not Christians but hypocrites, but you are not the judge and neither am I. God knows all things.
Standard answer. Can't tell you how often I've heard it, in one variation or the other. Basically, people who say that others do not do as they are are not Christians.Quote And relative to this: Quote Quote
There are many things in the OT that are difficult to understand.They are not difficult to understand unless you are trying to make the biblical view of God into something that it is not. Our modern minds cannot fathom primitive superstition.
I know who he is through personal experience, and I love him and appreciate him for who He is and what He means to me.
Quote Jhn 14:7 ¶ If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. Relative to this:
Quote Quote
Of course, it was not a sin for a woman to have her period. We know that is a natural process. And so, the question is why was she considered unclean relative to entering the temple. We must remember that they did not the nice fancy showers and hot tubs etc. that we have in modern society. It was because there might be contagious diseases that could be present when she was in this condition.Lev 15:28 'When she becomes clean from her discharge, she shall count off for herself seven days; and afterward she will be clean.
Lev 15:29 'Then on the eighth day she shall take for herself two turtledoves or two young pigeons and bring them in to the priest, to the doorway of the tent of meeting.
Lev 15:30 'The priest shall offer the one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. So the priest shall make atonement on her behalf before the LORD because of her impure discharge.'“Sin offering”? Why would a woman need a “sin offering” unless the “discharge” was considered a sin? You are being apologetic.
God, you and I know that a woman's period is a natural process and is not a sin. There may have been another reason for the sin offering, but no, common sense tells me that there has to be another reason.
What place has “common sense” in scripture?!? Are you saying that you disbelieve in the inerrancy of scripture and that “common sense” overrules those parts that don't make sense?Quote And relative to this: Quote Quote
You asked of my experience versus someone elses experience. I know that the Spirit of God dwells within me and that God by His Spirit testifies of His reality and of the reality of His testimony regarding His Son and His Christ. And yes, you have heard this before also, and you did not believe it then, and you probably won't believe it now, but it is the truth, and that is all that I can give to you.I cannot take your experience away, but then again, I cannot take away the experience of a JW, Jew, Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu, Taoist, Bahai, etc. You have come to accept God in the Abrahamic view, and while I once did, I no longer can.
No one can take my experience away, and I won't try to take someone else's experience away from them, but I do know that Jesus was sent from God and has taught us His Word, and he has stated:
Quote Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. And about this:
Quote Quote
I don't know whether or not I answered all of your question, and so, please ask if your have a question.I don't really have any questions. I've encountered all sorts of people who call themselves “Christian”. You fall in the “fundamentalist” category, and living in the Bible Belt, I've encountered more people like you than any other. So I already know enough.
Just trying to help, but as you say:
Quote So I already know enough
Thanks for the conversation.Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 23 2008,22:50) You are lost.
Au contraire, I probably know more about where my life is headed than you. But that is a guess. “Lost” is a Christian term with no definitive meaning, or a word used for those who don't know where they are. I am not in that category although your dogma would have you believe I am. So sad for you, but no problem for me.Rather, you have one of many beliefs based on an ancient tome written by 1st century Jews (maybe). Since no one has ever verified such an afterlife, it is as certain as your future present life. Just as you may have a wish about next week, so do you have a wish about an afterlife.
A wish that the sun will shine tomorroew or that we wish to have eternal life is not the same. Eternal life is a free gift from God through our Savior Jesus Christ. We have eye witnesses that say Christ die and say christ resurrection. O JUST CAN”T UNDERSTND THAT YOU DON”T BELIEF.
Oeace and Love Mes.Hi Mrs.,
None of the people who walked with Jesus wrote the Gospels. That comes from tradition. What was likely “resurrected” was his teachings and theology.
The reason I am skeptical is that so many things written in the bible are unbelievable as written. Back when these acts were first written, people were impressed by some “displays of power”. Since no one has been able to reproduce such acts outside of scripture in 1970+ years, one must either believe (1) that they are true and not question or (2) that they were inserted as attention grabbers (likely) or (3) they are merely symbolic.
I understand you see eternal life as a free gift. I have two questions for you or anyone who wants to answer: (1) if eternal life is given when you accept Jesus, why doesn't God take you home that instant to keep you safe (2) what is the purpose of this temporary flesh life if eternal life is so much better?
kejonn You know what happend with 1/3 of the Amgels that went with Satan. Godis testing us to make sure that will not happen with us. You have lost the Fath in Jesus Christ and unless you repent of your wrong ways, you are lost forever. The free gift of God are for those that belief in Jesus Christ.
Peace and Love Mrs.Hi KJ,
Do you have a better plan to offer God?
The sufferings of Christ are made complete in his followers.
We cannot bear his name without sharing his rejection and pain on a planet where satan still can rule. Sharing includes pain.
Is it written it would be easy?
The crucible burns off the dross.
Eternal glory awaits those who will endure.
Romans 8:18
For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.2 Corinthians 1:5
For just as the sufferings of Christ are ours in abundance, so also our comfort is abundant through Christ.Philippians 3:10
that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death;Colossians 1:24
Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I do my share on behalf of His body, which is the church, in filling up what is lacking in Christ's afflictions.Hebrews 10:32
But remember the former days, when, after being enlightened, you endured a great conflict of sufferings,Heb12
Hebrews 12
1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,2Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
4Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
5And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
12Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
13And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.
14Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
15Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
Quote (seek and you will find @ Mar. 24 2008,08:07) kejonn You know what happend with 1/3 of the Amgels that went with Satan. Godis testing us to make sure that will not happen with us. You have lost the Fath in Jesus Christ and unless you repent of your wrong ways, you are lost forever. The free gift of God are for those that belief in Jesus Christ.
Peace and Love Mrs.
So what of those who never hear of Jesus? What kind of God do you serve that makes one rule accessible to only so many since the 1st century that would in turn keep others from an eternal reward? Obviously for hundreds of years, most of the world had never even heard of this Jesus. So in your mind, would you call such a short-sighted plan really of a perfect God?I wouldn't.
Did you also notice that Christians rely heavily upon the Gospel of John because the emphasis is on believing versus doing? What I mean is, up until GoJ — the last gospel written — Jesus says eternal life comes through the commandments. It is not until 90-100 CE that Jesus is said to have told people that belief in him was what eternal life was all about. Two different teachings, both opposed to each other.
As far as being “lost”, what does “lost” mean, exactly? It is a word many Christians use without ever stopping to think about what it means in reality.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2008,12:34) Hi KJ,
Do you have a better plan to offer God?
The sufferings of Christ are made complete in his followers.
We cannot bear his name without sharing his rejection and pain on a planet where satan still can rule. Sharing includes pain.
Is it written it would be easy?
The crucible burns off the dross.
Eternal glory awaits those who will endure.
Romans 8:18
For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.2 Corinthians 1:5
For just as the sufferings of Christ are ours in abundance, so also our comfort is abundant through Christ.Philippians 3:10
that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death;Colossians 1:24
Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I do my share on behalf of His body, which is the church, in filling up what is lacking in Christ's afflictions.Hebrews 10:32
But remember the former days, when, after being enlightened, you endured a great conflict of sufferings,Heb12
Hebrews 12
1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,2Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
4Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
5And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
12Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
13And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.
14Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
15Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
You've already asked if I had a better plan. I told you then just as I tell you now, I don't claim to have any plan to “redeem mankind”. Such a thought is born of people who desire a better lot in life than they have been given. Some would have you think that this better life comes strictly through putting faith in Jesus. What ever happened to God in this equation? He's just a character behind the scenes in the average Christian's life. And you wonder why belief in the trinity is so prevalent?As Cato has shown, the average Christian belief that eternal life comes through believing in Jesus is very inequitable and short-sighted. Different cultures, different parsts of the world, different home environments would all be factors in either believing or disbelieving, or even of hearing in the first place. That does not sound like the plan of an omnipotent God to me but rather the Catholic church who says salvation is only available through the Catholic church. They got this exclusivity straight from the Gospel of John.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2008,05:34) Hi KJ,
Do you have a better plan to offer God?
The sufferings of Christ are made complete in his followers.
We cannot bear his name without sharing his rejection and pain on a planet where satan still can rule. Sharing includes pain.
Is it written it would be easy?
The crucible burns off the dross.
Eternal glory awaits those who will endure.
Nick,
I don't know how the universe or salvation work, but you asked a question, “Do you have a better plan to offer God?”.How about this; God created humans, we fell from innocence to prove our independence and free will, we see separation from the divine is pain and suffering, we try and climb our way back into grace, facing death and limitations inherent with being in material form. God is patient and wants us to grow and learn so we are born into situations individualized for the growth of our individual souls. We live and hopefully learn, sins are not punished per se, but result in karmic debts that must be payed off. We live many lives in different circumstances until we pay off our debts and learn what our souls need to learn to pass on to the next level of being, hopefully closer to the divine then we are now. Occasionally a superior soul who has already graduated from the school of material life comes back and teaches others what is possible if they would break from sin and look toward God and their fellow man. Just like school there are slow and fast learners with differing talents and abilities with many subjects and situations to learn from. In the end we, like the prodigal son, return to God of our own free wills, wisers souls for our experience and are welcomed back by the divine, this time with knowledge of sin and evil and the overcoming of same.
You asked for a plan, that is what I would come up with; fairness for all, cause and consequence, progressive growth and evolution of humanity, and tailored for individual souls. No it is not according to scripture, but it would make a lot more sense.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2008,05:34) The sufferings of Christ are made complete in his followers.
We cannot bear his name without sharing his rejection and pain on a planet where satan still can rule. Sharing includes pain.
Is it written it would be easy?
The crucible burns off the dross.
Eternal glory awaits those who will endure.
Hi NickYou didn't tell me that when I asked why god makes it so difficult to believe!
I guess you should keep that sort of thing private from an atheist if you have ambitions to prostyletise. What a waste of the only live you know for sure you will experience; a life lived in fear and pain.
Stuart
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2008,13:25) Hi KJ,
Do you really believe our God owes you, or any man, any favours?
We have no rights to demand.
I don't know if anyone “owes” anything to anyone. Much less God to us. He created us, isn't that enough? He gives us a chance to live, isn't that enough? Yet you want to believe He will then grant an eternal spot in the glory club my believing something just because one book said so.I'd also like to see where you think I am demanding anything. In fact, it is Christianity that says God grants favors for believing or disbelieving. Do you grant favors to your loved ones based on some selfish desire?
Again, the Abrahamic view has reduced God to man's image.
Hi cato,
You plan sounds remarkably like a plan men have already devised.
The scriptures show us how patheically ignorant and incapable of goodness we are.
The plan of God is about us being given God's own Spirit to enable us to produce eternally useful fruit.
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