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W.J. That is a very good post and so true. The Father has given us to Jesus. And what does Jesus say:” I will not loose you.” I will hang unto that rock until my last breath and then I will meet my Savior. I for one depend on that. It is a promise from Jesus. Do you want to belief in Him or some man that comes around and tries to confuse you? I rather go with Jesus any old day. Amen.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 23 2007,00:07) Tow Most translations render the word “rejected” not “avoided”.
The Hebrew word is “chadel”, which means;
rejected, forbearing, transient, fleeting, lacking
It comes from the root word “chadal”, which has the sense of one forsaken.
Unfortunatly for David, the NWT has not truly rendered this word correctly.
Yeshua truly was rejected and forsaken by most. Few remained with him until the end of his natural life, and even the eleven forsook him at the hands of the soldiers.
Ask the majority of Jews today and they will not agree with 'rejected' either. Why? To reject something you must debate the truth of it. To most Jews Jesus was simply another failed messiah wannabe so there is nothing to reject. He didn't fulfill a single messianic prophecy, he did not have the proper lineage. Therefore the proper terminology is that they did not even acknowledge him and most still do not. If anyone knows messianic prophecies they know Jesus was not the end time Moschiach.
Think of it this way. Rejecting Jesus as the Messiah would be like rejecting the Chicago Cubs for the football playoffs. Since they are a baseball team they would not qualify. Jesus did not qualify to be the Jewish Moshiach.
Quote Yeshua is still rejected by most today. Isa 53:3 truly is a prohesy that was fulfilled by Yeshua.
You say prove it.
Again you must disprove that the servant of Is 52:13 which sets the context for Is 53 is not Israel since it is plainly pointed out in many places that YHVH is calling Israel His servant. Can you deny the context? I know you like most Christians will.
Quote Christians can not “prove” this to be true no more than you can “prove” it to be false. I cannot prove that Santa is fake or that Stu doesn't have fairies living in his garden either. But context in Isaiah says that Is 53 is Israel. Show me in context where the Moshiach is mentioned in Isaiah in association with Is 53.
Quote Heres something for you to consider. Even though Yeshua is rejected by most, yet, Yeshua is claimed by millions to be alive in them by his spirit everyday. Millions after his death untill now attest to his ressurection and that he lives in them, and that he has litterally changed their lives, and that they follow his voice that speaks to them daily.
What about the millions who believe in Allah and Muhammed? The millions who believe in the various Hindu gods? Why do you deny the strength of their numbers as proof of validity?
Quote Do you know of any man in history that has this kind of testimony and following, or who has had more influence and impact in the history of man since the first century? Muhammed.
Quote One that is claimed to litterally live in the hearts of his followers, speaking to them and changing their lives. What figure in history is like that today? Dionysus was also said to 'live' in his followers. There are many similarities between Jesus and Dionysus.
Quote So Dont flatter yourself. You havent shaken a true believers faith at all. However, maybe you do serve a purpose. Maybe God would use your unbelieving heart to seperate the true believers from the doubting and the professing ones, or those who are sitting on the fence and even questioning that Yeshua is the Messiah.
Peter gives us a wonderful prophecy Yeshua fulfilled after his death.
Isa 8:14 NASB
And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
15 And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.1 Peter 2:7 NASB
This precious value, then, is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve, “THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS (Israel) REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE VERY CORNER stone,”
8 and, “A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE”; for they “stumble” because they are “disobedient” to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed.Remember Peter was the preacher to the Jews. So he was not anti-semetic.
YHWY is simply speaking through him saying no matter how much truth some may have, they still will not believe.
What's to believe? If a Jew knows his Tanakh Jesus is just another man. They know that Jesus didn't fulfill a single messianic prophecy. Not one. They know he did not have the proper lineage. The only Jew that accepts Jesus is one who does not know his Tanakh. Just like lazy Christians there are lazy Jews. That's why the majority of Christians never open their own bibles.Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 25:29 For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away.
Mat 25:30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
Mat 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
Mat 25:32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
Mat 13:4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
Mat 13:5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
Mat 13:6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
Mat 13:7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
Mat 13:8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
Mat 13:9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Mat 13:4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:Mat 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
Mat 13:26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
Mat 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
Mat 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
Mat 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.Quote (kenrch @ Nov. 24 2007,02:19) Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. Mat 25:29 For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away.
Mat 25:30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
Mat 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
Mat 25:32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
Mat 13:4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
Mat 13:5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
Mat 13:6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
Mat 13:7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
Mat 13:8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
Mat 13:9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Mat 13:4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:Mat 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
Mat 13:26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
Mat 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
Mat 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
Mat 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Ken A very good Post and I tolally agree with that.Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote (kenrch @ Nov. 23 2007,09:19) Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. Who's his father, Jupiter or Zeus? I don't see YHVH in the GT so its pretty much wide open to who 'god the father' is. Jupiter means 'O father god'. That's pretty darn close.
Quote Mat 25:29 For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. Mat 25:30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
Mat 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
Hey didn't he say that some of the people standing before him when he said that would see that? Those guys must be looking pretty rough at almost 2000 years old. Or wait I think their likely dead.
Quote Mat 25:32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. Mat 13:4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
Mat 13:5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
Mat 13:6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
Mat 13:7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
Mat 13:8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
Mat 13:9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Mat 13:4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:Mat 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
Mat 13:26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
Mat 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
Mat 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
Mat 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Yawn. The words of a man who never fulfilled a single messianic prophecy. Or did he? I need to read some other religions texts maybe they speak of him. Hinduism perhaps?2 John 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an Anti-Christ.
2John1:8 Look to yourself's, that we do not loose those things we worked for, that we may receivea full reward.
2 John 1:9 Whoever trensgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both, the Father and the Son.
2 John 1:10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, DO NOT RECEIVE HIM INTO YOUR HOUSE NOR GREET HIM.
2 John 1:11 For He who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
I hope and pray that we will follow John's advice.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 23 2007,00:07) Tow Most translations render the word “rejected” not “avoided”.
The Hebrew word is “chadel”, which means;
rejected, forbearing, transient, fleeting, lacking
It comes from the root word “chadal”, which has the sense of one forsaken.
Unfortunatly for David, the NWT has not truly rendered this word correctly.
Yeshua truly was rejected and forsaken by most. Few remained with him until the end of his natural life, and even the eleven forsook him at the hands of the soldiers.
Tow, you say…
Quote
Ask the majority of Jews today and they will not agree with 'rejected' either. Why? To reject something you must debate the truth of it.No. This is why…
Mark 12:10
And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:
11 This was the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?Rom 10:21
But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.You say…
Quote
To most Jews Jesus was simply another failed messiah wannabe so there is nothing to reject. He didn't fulfill a single messianic prophecy, he did not have the proper lineage.I am glad you said most Jews. You say Yeshua didnt fulfill a single prophesy?
Prove it. You cant can you? The Pharasees and the Sadusees couldnt prove he didnt either, in fact he was fulfilling scriptures before their eyes and they still didnt believe him. But, some did didnt they?
Remember this one…
Isa 61:1
The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;Lk 4:16
And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18 The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.Read the Gospels and you will see he litterally fulfilled the prophesy. But then you dont believe the Gospel message do you. Neither did the Sadussees believe him. Sad U See.
You say…
Quote
Therefore the proper terminology is that they did not even acknowledge him and most still do not. If anyone knows messianic prophecies they know Jesus was not the end time Moschiach.Well you should talk to the disciples and the thousands of followers that did know the Messianic prophecys. These were true Jews. Paul was a Hebrew of the Hebrews, taught by the best of his day, but of course you dont like Paul for I am sure his writings are the most convicting of all.
But most Jews still “reject him”, however God will always have a remnant that will accept him. You have to admit not all Jews hold your belief. In fact their are plenty that dont.
Maybe you should check some of these out…
http://www.cjfm.org/
http://jewsforjesus.org/
http://www.ifcj.org/site/PageServerYou say…
Quote
Think of it this way. Rejecting Jesus as the Messiah would be like rejecting the Chicago Cubs for the football playoffs. Since they are a baseball team they would not qualify. Jesus did not qualify to be the Jewish Moshiach.Poor analogy. When the Cubs are crucified for claiming to be the Messiah then you might have a case.
Quote Yeshua is still rejected by most today. Isa 53:3 truly is a prohesy that was fulfilled by Yeshua.
You say prove it.
You say…
Quote
Again you must disprove that the servant of Is 52:13 which sets the context for Is 53 is not Israel since it is plainly pointed out in many places that YHVH is calling Israel His servant. Can you deny the context? I know you like most Christians will.I dont have to disprove anything. Burdon of proof is on you since you are the one claiming Yeshua is not the Messiah.
But since you insist on your interpretatiion of Isa 53, then tell us when or how by “Israels” stripes “Israel” will be healed? Isa 53:5
How will Israels soul be an offering for sin. Isa 53:10
How will Israel bear the sins of many? Isa 53:12BTW since you claim to know YHWH and follow the Torah, when is the last time you gave a sin offering?
Quote Christians can not “prove” this to be true no more than you can “prove” it to be false. You say…
Quote
I cannot prove that Santa is fake or that Stu doesn't have fairies living in his garden either. But context in Isaiah says that Is 53 is Israel. Show me in context where the Moshiach is mentioned in Isaiah in association with Is 53.See above. Burden of proof is on you. Show verse by verse how Isa 53 is refering to a nation and not an individual.
Quote Heres something for you to consider. Even though Yeshua is rejected by most, yet, Yeshua is claimed by millions to be alive in them by his spirit everyday. Millions after his death untill now attest to his ressurection and that he lives in them, and that he has litterally changed their lives, and that they follow his voic
e that speaks to them daily.You say…
Quote
What about the millions who believe in Allah and Muhammed? The millions who believe in the various Hindu gods? Why do you deny the strength of their numbers as proof of validity?Not dienying they didnt exist.
But, what about them? Give me an example of one of their followers that believe that Muhammed the prophet of their God “Allah” litterally is alive by his spirit in them. How many believe Mohammed is alive?Hindu Gods? Do their followers claim that their Prophet lives inside of them?
Quote Do you know of any man in history that has this kind of testimony and following, or who has had more influence and impact in the history of man since the first century? You say…
Quote
Muhammed.Again. Do they claim Mohaamad lives in them and that he speaks to them everyday?
I have to lauph that you could even think this especially since Muhammed is not even found in the Hebrew scriptures which you claim to believe in. I would have thought you would have said Moses or David.
Quote One that is claimed to litterally live in the hearts of his followers, speaking to them and changing their lives. What figure in history is like that today? You say…
Quote Dionysus was also said to 'live' in his followers. There are many similarities between Jesus and Dionysus. Is that the best you can do? Amazing that you would appeal to Greek gods to defend your position.
Do you know of anyone today that believes Dionysus lives in them and speaks to them everyday.
Remember millions of believers claim this as being fact, that the risen saviour lives in them and speaks to them. In a court of law that would be pretty solid evedence. But of course you can choose to believe that the millions are all liars or are decieved.
Quote So Dont flatter yourself. You havent shaken a true believers faith at all. However, maybe you do serve a purpose. Maybe God would use your unbelieving heart to seperate the true believers from the doubting and the professing ones, or those who are sitting on the fence and even questioning that Yeshua is the Messiah.
Peter gives us a wonderful prophecy Yeshua fulfilled after his death.
Isa 8:14 NASB
And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
15 And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.1 Peter 2:7 NASB
This precious value, then, is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve, “THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS (Israel) REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE VERY CORNER stone,”
8 and, “A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE”; for they “stumble” because they are “disobedient” to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed.Remember Peter was the preacher to the Jews. So he was not anti-semetic.
YHWY is simply speaking through him saying no matter how much truth some may have, they still will not believe.
You say…
Quote
What's to believe? If a Jew knows his Tanakh Jesus is just another man. They know that Jesus didn't fulfill a single messianic prophecy. Not one. They know he did not have the proper lineage. The only Jew that accepts Jesus is one who does not know his Tanakh.But what of his followers like Peter and Paul. They knew the Tanakh well and quoted from it as proof of the Messiah Yeshua has come.
So I guess you would also call all of these liars also…
http://www.cjfm.org/
http://jewsforjesus.org/
http://www.ifcj.org/site/PageServerThis is only a few by the way.
You say…
Quote
Just like lazy Christians there are lazy Jews. That's why the majority of Christians never open their own bibles.Of course you have to believe this, if not then many of your Jewish brothers (If you are a Jew) would correct you.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Nov. 23 2007,19:58) If those were “appointed” to stumble —- what's the point of even trying? Are certain ones “appointed” to be disobedient?
not3They are appointed, which also means “set aside” because of their unbelief.
Heb 3:12
Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.Heb 3:19
So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.Heb 4:6
Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:Heb 4:11
Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.Blessings
Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 24 2007,02:45) Quote (kenrch @ Nov. 23 2007,09:19) Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. Who's his father, Jupiter or Zeus? I don't see YHVH in the GT so its pretty much wide open to who 'god the father' is. Jupiter means 'O father god'. That's pretty darn close.
Quote Mat 25:29 For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. Mat 25:30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
Mat 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
Hey didn't he say that some of the people standing before him when he said that would see that? Those guys must be looking pretty rough at almost 2000 years old. Or wait I think their likely dead.
Quote Mat 25:32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. Mat 13:4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
Mat 13:5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
Mat 13:6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
Mat 13:7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
Mat 13:8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
Mat 13:9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Mat 13:4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:Mat 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
Mat 13:26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
Mat 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
Mat 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
Mat 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Yawn. The words of a man who never fulfilled a single messianic prophecy. Or did he? I need to read some other religions texts maybe they speak of him. Hinduism perhaps?
And since there was no verifiable dictated copy of the after dinner speeches and allegorical anecdotes of Jesus in existence in 70+CE, “Matthew” (whoever he was) had to make it up or copy others anyway.To think of all the tonnes of videotape wasted by the Trinity Broadcasting Network. If just 0.0000000000000001% of that tape used to record the pathological rantings of Benny, Creflo et al had been technologically available to actually make a record of Jesus giving the Sermon on the Mount…
Of course they did have writing, but didn't use it!
Stuart
I'm just wondering how you are going to fell after you repent..perhaps as Paul did ! Who knows the Father Himself may say a job well done weeding the garden!
Someone has to pull the weeds But I'm glad it's not me! Really yours is a horrible job perhaps that is why you don't believe in God just now! Ha! Both you guys are doing God's will and not even knowing it. Well all I can do is to warn….Nothing else can be done!
It's how the seed was planted I suppose! Was it planted in fertile ground or a temporary field?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 23 2007,12:28) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 23 2007,00:07) Tow Most translations render the word “rejected” not “avoided”.
The Hebrew word is “chadel”, which means;
rejected, forbearing, transient, fleeting, lacking
It comes from the root word “chadal”, which has the sense of one forsaken.
Unfortunatly for David, the NWT has not truly rendered this word correctly.
Yeshua truly was rejected and forsaken by most. Few remained with him until the end of his natural life, and even the eleven forsook him at the hands of the soldiers.
Tow, you say…
Quote
Ask the majority of Jews today and they will not agree with 'rejected' either. Why? To reject something you must debate the truth of it.No. This is why…
Mark 12:10
And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:
11 This was the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?Rom 10:21
But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.You're trying to prove fiction with the same book of fiction. Its like trying to prove Harry Potter by using a Harry Potter book.
Quote You say… Quote
To most Jews Jesus was simply another failed messiah wannabe so there is nothing to reject. He didn't fulfill a single messianic prophecy, he did not have the proper lineage.I am glad you said most Jews. You say Yeshua didnt fulfill a single prophesy?
Prove it. You cant can you? The Pharasees and the Sadusees couldnt prove he didnt either, in fact he was fulfilling scriptures before their eyes and they still didnt believe him. But, some did didnt they?
Prove it? I've already gone through 2 lists of 40 supposed prophecies Jesus was supposed to have fulfilled and I show that (1) they were not messianic prophecies and (2) he didn't fulfill them.
Quote Remember this one… Isa 61:1
The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;Lk 4:16
And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18 The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.That's not a prophecy that's Isaiah speaking as he prophesied. At least find a prophecy, messianic or not.
Quote Read the Gospels and you will see he litterally fulfilled the prophesy. But then you dont believe the Gospel message do you. Neither did the Sadussees believe him. Sad U See. Its not a prophecy
.Quote You say… Quote
Therefore the proper terminology is that they did not even acknowledge him and most still do not. If anyone knows messianic prophecies they know Jesus was not the end time Moschiach.Well you should talk to the disciples and the thousands of followers that did know the Messianic prophecys. These were true Jews. Paul was a Hebrew of the Hebrews, taught by the best of his day, but of course you dont like Paul for I am sure his writings are the most convicting of all.
They don't convict because they are the words of a self-loathing apostate Jew. Nothing more. His words go against the whole of the Tanakh and are thus the first to be rejected by any Jew who knows a lick of Hebrew bible.
Quote But most Jews still “reject him”, however God will always have a remnant that will accept him. You have to admit not all Jews hold your belief. In fact their are plenty that dont. As I said no rejection. I don't reject Bill Gates as messiah any more than I (or Jews) reject Jesus as messiah. Neither fulfilled messianic prophecies, neither has the lineage to sit on the throne of David.
Quote Maybe you should check some of these out…
http://www.cjfm.org/
http://jewsforjesus.org/
http://www.ifcj.org/site/PageServerThose are posers. They are made up of either evangelicals trying to pretend they have Jewish heritage or Jews who never paid attention to their own Hebrew scriptures.
Quote You say… Quote
Think of it this way. Rejecting Jesus as the Messiah would be like rejecting the Chicago Cubs for the football playoffs. Since they are a baseball team they would not qualify. Jesus did not qualify to be the Jewish Moshiach.Poor analogy. When the Cubs are crucified for claiming to be the Messiah then you might have a case.
How is it poor? The Cubs can't play football any more than Jesus could be the Messiah. Neither is qualified for the job.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 23 2007,12:28) Quote Yeshua is still rejected by most today. Isa 53:3 truly is a prohesy that was fulfilled by Yeshua.
You say prove it.
You say…
Quote
Again you must disprove that the servant of Is 52:13 which sets the context for Is 53 is not Israel since it is plainly pointed out in many places that YHVH is calling Israel His servant. Can you deny the context? I know you like most Christians will.I dont have to disprove anything. Burdon of proof is on you since you are the one claiming Yeshua is not the Messiah.
But since you insist on your interpretatiion of Isa 53, then tell us when or how by “Israels” stripes “Israel” will be healed? Isa 53:5
How will Israels soul be an offering for sin. Isa 53:10
How will Israel bear the sins of many? Isa 53:12I already have proven it. Look throughout Isaiah and you will find that YHVH's servant is Israel. Do I need to do this for every Christian who is too lazy to read? OK at least one more time.
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Isa 41:8 But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.Isa 44:1 Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen:
Isa 44:2 Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen.
Isa 44:21 Remember these, O Jacob and Israel; for thou art my servant: I have formed thee; thou art my servant: O Israel, thou shalt not be forgotten of me.
Isa 45:4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
Isa 48:20 Go ye forth of Babylon, flee ye from the Chaldeans, with a voice of singing declare ye, tell this, utter it even to the end of the earth; say ye, The LORD hath redeemed his servant Jacob.
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Who is the servant? Jacob. Israel. Now look to the context of who is being spoken of in Is 52-53Isa 52:13 Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high.
Since you have absolutely NO proof to go against this than I have indeed proven who Is 52-53 is about: Israel.
Quote BTW since you claim to know YHWH and follow the Torah, when is the last time you gave a sin offering? Everyday. Its called repentant prayer. Look about the 7th page of the 'Jesus the Messiah' thread to see the many ways G-d provided for people to atone for sins.
Quote Quote Christians can not “prove” this to be true no more than you can “prove” it to be false. You say…
Quote
I cannot prove that Santa is fake or that Stu doesn't have fairies living in his garden either. But context in Isaiah says that Is 53 is Israel. Show me in context where the Moshiach is mentioned in Isaiah in association with Is 53.See above. Burden of proof is on you. Show verse by verse how Isa 53 is refering to a nation and not an individual.
Quote Heres something for you to consider. Just did. The servant is Israel. Checkmate.
Quote Even though Yeshua is rejected by most, yet, Yeshua is claimed by millions to be alive in them by his spirit everyday. Millions after his death untill now attest to his ressurection and that he lives in them, and that he has litterally changed their lives, and that they follow his voice that speaks to them daily. You say…
Quote
What about the millions who believe in Allah and Muhammed? The millions who believe in the various Hindu gods? Why do you deny the strength of their numbers as proof of validity?Not dienying they didnt exist.
But, what about them? Give me an example of one of their followers that believe that Muhammed the prophet of their God “Allah” litterally is alive by his spirit in them. How many believe Mohammed is alive?Who knows. They are silly enough to claim such a pagan idea as death-rebirth which is quite common with many pagan mythologies. Muslims are also strictly monotheistic while the majority of Christians worship a three-headed god that the Jews never knew (see Deu 13).
Quote Hindu Gods? Do their followers claim that their Prophet lives inside of them? I think some do as a matter of fact. And hinduism also has a trinity just like Christianity. Krishna is very much like Jesus. Both were born of virgins. Both came to cleanse their followers from sins. Both were placed in manger after birth. Both died on a tree.
Plus Christianity and Hinduism is similar. Both believe in rewards or punishment in heaven or hell. Both have a day of judgment. Both require faith in their savior for salvation. Both believe sickness and disease is caused by evil spirits. Both believe in a war in heaven between good and bad angels. Both believe in being born again.
Quote Quote Do you know of any man in history that has this kind of testimony and following, or who has had more influence and impact in the history of man since the first century? You say…
Quote
Muhamm
ed.Again. Do they claim Mohaamad lives in them and that he speaks to them everyday?
No but he has had almost as much influence on the followers of Islam as Jesus AND he has been around for several hundreds of years less. At its present pace, Islam will take over Christianity as the leading religion in the world as far as numbers of adherents.
Quote I have to lauph that you could even think this especially since Muhammed is not even found in the Hebrew scriptures which you claim to believe in. I would have thought you would have said Moses or David. No because Christians override Moses and David with their own Christian bible. They pale in comparison to god-man Jesus.
Quote Quote One that is claimed to litterally live in the hearts of his followers, speaking to them and changing their lives. What figure in history is like that today? You say…
Quote Dionysus was also said to 'live' in his followers. There are many similarities between Jesus and Dionysus. Is that the best you can do? Amazing that you would appeal to Greek gods to defend your position.
That is not the only god. There are a whole plethora of pagan gos that Christianity has borrowed from. Mithras, Dionysus, Krishna, Horus are the main ones. In fact Christianity really shares very little with Judaism because most believe in a three-in-one god, that the Torah is abolished, that the Sabbath is now 'the lord's day', that drinking blood is acceptable, that human sacrifice is warranted, that one must put faith in a man for salvation (albeit a god-man), that one can pay for the sins of another. All of these (and more) are foreign or in opposition to Judaism.
Quote Do you know of anyone today that believes Dionysus lives in them and speaks to them everyday. I have to stop and ask, what does this prove? You can get a feeling from drugs, alcohol, love, and lack of oxygen to the brain. So feelings mean nothing.
Quote Remember millions of believers claim this as being fact, that the risen saviour lives in them and speaks to them. In a court of law that would be pretty solid evedence. But of course you can choose to believe that the millions are all liars or are decieved. Remember than many millions more do not believe in him and believe in something else or nothing at all. All this shows is that the Christian bible is a popular work of fiction.
Quote Quote So Dont flatter yourself. You havent shaken a true believers faith at all. However, maybe you do serve a purpose. Maybe God would use your unbelieving heart to seperate the true believers from the doubting and the professing ones, or those who are sitting on the fence and even questioning that Yeshua is the Messiah.
Peter gives us a wonderful prophecy Yeshua fulfilled after his death.
Isa 8:14 NASB
And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
15 And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.1 Peter 2:7 NASB
This precious value, then, is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve, “THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS (Israel) REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE VERY CORNER stone,”
8 and, “A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE”; for they “stumble” because they are “disobedient” to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed.Remember Peter was the preacher to the Jews. So he was not anti-semetic.
YHWY is simply speaking through him saying no matter how much truth some may have, they still will not believe.
You say…
Quote
What's to believe? If a Jew knows his Tanakh Jesus is just another man. They know that Jesus didn't fulfill a single messianic prophecy. Not one. They know he did not have the proper lineage. The only Jew that accepts Jesus is one who does not know his Tanakh.But what of his followers like Peter and Paul. They knew the Tanakh well and quoted from it as proof of the Messiah Yeshua has come.
So I guess you would also call all of these liars also…
http://www.cjfm.org/
http://jewsforjesus.org/
http://www.ifcj.org/site/PageServerThis is only a few by the way.
Ask any observant Jew about these organizations. They are but another diabolical way to kill Jews. That is once a Jew accepts Jesus a Jewish soul dies. They can return to Judaism but if they do not they are no longer Jewish.
Quote You say… Quote
Just like lazy Christians there are lazy Jews. That's why the majority of Christians never open their own bibles.Of course you have to believe this, if not then many of your Jewish brothers (If you are a Jew) would correct you.
What Jewish brothers? Christians are not Jewish. Once they convert they are Christians and no longer Jews.“He was despised and was avoided by men, a man meant for pains and for having acquaintance with sickness. And there was as if the concealing of one’s face from us. He was despised, and we held him as of no account.” (Isaiah 53:3)
Certain that his words will come true, Isaiah writes in the past tense, as if they had already been fulfilled. Was Jesus Christ really despised and avoided by men? Indeed, he was! Self-righteous religious leaders and their followers viewed him as the vilest of humans. They called him a friend of tax collectors and harlots. (Luke 7:34, 37-39) They spit in his face. They hit him with their fists and reviled him. They sneered and jeered at him. (Matthew 26:67) Influenced by these enemies of truth, Jesus’ “own people did not take him in.”—John 1:10, 11.
Obviously, not everyone rejected him. But most did.As a perfect man, Jesus did not get sick. Yet, he was “a man meant for pains and for having acquaintance with sickness.” Such pains and sicknesses were not his own. Jesus came from heaven into a sick world. He lived amid suffering and pain, but he did not shun those who were ailing, either physically or spiritually. Like a caring physician, he became intimately acquainted with the suffering of those around him. Moreover, he was able to do what no ordinary human physician can do.—Luke 5:27-32.
Nevertheless, Jesus’ enemies viewed him as the ailing one and refused to look upon him with favor. His face was ‘concealed’ from view but not because he hid his face from others. In rendering Isaiah 53:3, The New English Bible uses the phrase “a thing from which men turn away their eyes.” Jesus’ opposers found him so revolting that they, in effect, turned away from him as if he were too loathsome to look upon. They reckoned his worth at no more than the price of a slave. (Exodus 21:32; Matthew 26:14-16) They had less esteem for him than for the murderer Barabbas. (Luke 23:18-25) What more could they have done to demonstrate their low opinion of Jesus?Jehovah’s servants today can derive much comfort from Isaiah’s words. At times, opposers may disdain faithful worshipers of Jehovah or treat them as if they were of no account. Yet, as was true with Jesus, what really matters is how Jehovah God values us. After all, even though men ‘held Jesus as of no account,’ this certainly did not change his great value in God’s eyes!
Why did the Messiah have to suffer and die? Isaiah explains:
“Truly our sicknesses were what he himself carried; and as for our pains, he bore them. But we ourselves accounted him as plagued, stricken by God and afflicted. But he was being pierced for our transgression; he was being crushed for our errors. The chastisement meant for our peace was upon him, and because of his wounds there has been a healing for us. Like sheep we have all of us wandered about; it was each one to his own way that we have turned; and Jehovah himself has caused the error of us all to meet up with that one.”—Isaiah 53:4-6.
The Messiah carried the sicknesses of others and bore their pains. He lifted up their burdens, so to speak, placed them on his own shoulders, and carried them. And since sickness and pain are consequences of mankind’s sinful state, the Messiah carried the sins of others. Many did not understand the reason for his suffering and believed that God was punishing him, plaguing him with a loathsome disease.
(The Hebrew word rendered “plagued” is also used in regard to leprosy. (2 Kings 15:5) According to certain scholars, some Jews derived from Isaiah 53:4 the idea that the Messiah would be a leper. The Babylonian Talmud applies this verse to the Messiah, calling him “the leper scholar.” The Catholic Douay Version, reflecting the Latin Vulgate, renders this verse: “We have thought him as it were a leper.”)
The Messiah’s suffering culminated in his being pierced, crushed, and wounded—strong words that denote a violent and painful death. But his death has atoning power; it provides the basis for recovering those who wander about in error and sin, helping them to find peace with God.How did Jesus bear the suffering of others? The Gospel of Matthew, quoting Isaiah 53:4, says: “People brought him many demon-possessed persons; and he expelled the spirits with a word, and he cured all who were faring badly; that there might be fulfilled what was spoken through Isaiah the prophet, saying: ‘He himself took our sicknesses and carried our diseases.’” (Matthew 8:16, 17) By curing those who came to him with various diseases, Jesus, in effect, took their suffering upon himself. And such healings drew on his vitality. (Luke 8:43-48) His ability to heal all kinds of ailments—physical and spiritual—proved that he was empowered to cleanse people from sin.—Matthew 9:2-8.
Yet, to many it seemed that Jesus was “plagued” by God. After all, he suffered at the instigation of respected religious leaders. Remember, though, that he did not suffer on account of any sins of his own. “Christ suffered for you,” says Peter, “leaving you a model for you to follow his steps closely. He committed no sin, nor was deception found in his mouth. He himself bore our sins in his own body upon the stake, in order that we might be done with sins and live to righteousness. And ‘by his stripes you were healed.’” (1 Peter 2:21, 22, 24) We were all at one time lost in sin, “like sheep, going astray.” (1 Peter 2:25) Through Jesus, however, Jehovah provided redemption from our sinful state. He caused our error to “meet up with” Jesus, to rest upon him. The sinless Jesus willingly suffered the penalty for our sins. By undeservedly suffering a shameful death on a stake, he made it possible for us to be reconciled to God.
Was the Messiah willing to suffer and die? Isaiah says:
“He was hard pressed, and he was letting himself be afflicted; yet he would not open his mouth. He was being brought just like a sheep to the slaughtering; and like a ewe that before her shearers has become mute, he also would not open his mouth.” (Isaiah 53:7)
On the final night of his life, Jesus could have summoned “more than twelve legions of angels” to come to his aid. But he said: “In that case, how would the Scriptures be fulfilled that it must take place this way?” (Matthew 26:53, 54) Instead, “the Lamb of God” offered no resistance. (John 1:29) When the chief priests and the older men falsely accused him before Pilate, Jesus “made no answer.” (Matthew 27:11-14) He did not want to say anything that might interfere with the carrying out of God’s will for him. Jesus was willing to die as a sacrificial Lamb, knowing full well that his death would redeem obedient mankind from sin, sickness, and death.Isaiah now gives more details of the Messiah’s suffering and humiliation. The prophet writes: “Because of restraint and of judgment he was taken away; and who will concern himself even with the details of his generation? For he was severed from the land of the living ones. Because of the transgression of my people he had the stroke.” (Isaiah 53:8)
When Jesus was finally taken by his enemies, these religious opposers applied “restraint” in the way they dealt with him. It was not that they held back from expressing their hatred but that they restrained, or withheld, justice. In its rendering of Isaiah 53:8, the Greek Septuagint says “humiliation” instead of “restraint.” Jesus’ enemies humiliated him by withholding the fair treatment to which even a common criminal was entitled. The trial of Jesus made a mockery of justice. How so?In their determination to get rid of Jesus, the Jewish religious leaders broke their own rules. According to tradition, the Sanhedrin could try a capital case only in the hall of hewn stones in the temple precincts, not in the high priest’s house. Such a trial had to be held during the day, not after sundown. And in a capital case, a guilty verdic
t had to be announced the day following the conclusion of the hearing. Hence, no trials could be held on the eve of a Sabbath or a festival. These rules were all ignored in the case of Jesus’ trial. (Matthew 26:57-68) Even worse, the religious leaders flagrantly broke God’s Law as they handled the case. For example, they resorted to bribery to entrap Jesus. (Deuteronomy 16:19; Luke 22:2-6) They gave heed to bearers of false witness. (Exodus 20:16; Mark 14:55, 56) And they conspired to release a murderer, thereby bringing bloodguilt upon themselves and their land. (Numbers 35:31-34; Deuteronomy 19:11-13; Luke 23:16-25) Hence, there was no “judgment,” no fair trial resulting in a correct, impartial ruling.Did Jesus’ enemies investigate to see who the man on trial before them really was? Isaiah asks a similar question: “Who will concern himself even with the details of his generation?” The word “generation” may refer to one’s descent, or background. When Jesus was on trial before the Sanhedrin, its members did not take into account his background—that he fulfilled the requirements for the promised Messiah. Instead, they accused him of blasphemy and held him liable to death. (Mark 14:64) Later, the Roman governor Pontius Pilate yielded to pressure and sentenced Jesus to be impaled. (Luke 23:13-25) Thus Jesus, at just 33 1/2 years of age, “was severed,” or cut off, in the midst of his life.
Concerning the Messiah’s death and burial, Isaiah next writes:
“He will make his burial place even with the wicked ones, and with the rich class in his death, despite the fact that he had done no violence and there was no deception in his mouth.” (Isaiah 53:9)
How, in his death and burial, was Jesus with the wicked as well as with the rich? On Nisan 14, 33 C.E., he died on the execution stake outside the walls of Jerusalem. Since he was impaled between two evildoers, in a sense his burial place was with the wicked ones. (Luke 23:33) However, after Jesus died, Joseph, a wealthy man from Arimathea, mustered up the courage to ask Pilate for permission to take down Jesus’ body and bury it. Along with Nicodemus, Joseph prepared the body for burial and then placed it in a newly excavated tomb that belonged to him. (Matthew 27:57-60; John 19:38-42) So Jesus’ burial place was also with the rich class.Next Isaiah says something startling: “Jehovah himself took delight in crushing him; he made him sick. If you will set his soul as a guilt offering, he will see his offspring, he will prolong his days, and in his hand what is the delight of Jehovah will succeed. Because of the trouble of his soul he will see, he will be satisfied. By means of his knowledge the righteous one, my servant, will bring a righteous standing to many people; and their errors he himself will bear.” (Isaiah 53:10, 11)
How could Jehovah possibly take delight in seeing this faithful servant crushed? Clearly, Jehovah did not personally inflict suffering upon his dear Son. Jesus’ enemies were fully responsible for what they did to him. But Jehovah permitted them to act cruelly. (John 19:11) For what reason? Surely the God of empathy and tender compassion was pained to see his innocent Son suffer. (Isaiah 63:9; Luke 1:77, 78) Jehovah was certainly not displeased in any way with Jesus. Even so, Jehovah took delight in his Son’s willingness to suffer because of all the blessings that would result from it.For one thing, Jehovah set Jesus’ soul as “a guilt offering.” Hence, when Jesus ascended back to heaven, he entered Jehovah’s presence bearing the merit of his sacrificed human life as a guilt offering, and Jehovah was pleased to accept it in behalf of all mankind. (Hebrews 9:24; 10:5-14) By means of his guilt offering, Jesus acquired “offspring.” As “Eternal Father,” he is able to give life—eternal life—to those who exercise faith in his shed blood. (Isaiah 9:6) After all the trouble that Jesus went through as a human soul, how satisfying it must be for him to have the prospect of delivering mankind from sin and death! Of course, it must be even more satisfying for him to know that his integrity provided his heavenly Father with an answer to the taunts of His Adversary, Satan the Devil.—Proverbs 27:11.
Another blessing that results from Jesus’ death is that he brings “a righteous standing to many,” even now. He does so, says Isaiah, “by means of his knowledge.” Evidently, this is knowledge that Jesus acquired by becoming a man and suffering unjustly for his obedience to God. (Hebrews 4:15) Having suffered to the point of death, Jesus was able to provide the sacrifice needed to help others acquire a righteous standing. To whom does this righteous standing come? First, to his anointed followers. Because they exercise faith in Jesus’ sacrifice, Jehovah declares them righteous with a view to adopting them as sons and making them joint heirs with Jesus. (Romans 5:19; 8:16, 17) Then, “a great crowd” of “other sheep” exercise faith in Jesus’ shed blood and enjoy a righteous standing with a view to being friends of God and survivors of Armageddon.—Revelation 7:9; 16:14, 16; John 10:16; James 2:23, 25.
Finally, Isaiah describes the triumphs of the Messiah:
“For that reason I shall deal him a portion among the many, and it will be with the mighty ones that he will apportion the spoil, due to the fact that he poured out his soul to the very death, and it was with the transgressors that he was counted in; and he himself carried the very sin of many people, and for the transgressors he proceeded to interpose.”—Isaiah 53:12.The historical record of Jesus’ life and death enables us to make an unmistakable identification: Jesus Christ is the Messianic Servant of Isaiah’s prophecy.
OK Tow do you believe that the SPIRIT we have is of the antiChrist?
It's either you are of the antichrist OR we are?
So you MUST believe that WE are of the AntiChrist and that the”RE ALE” Messiah is yet to come who will (not spiritual) but physically will set His Government into place.
Luk 12:37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
To all: Please rely on that which you have found from the beginning!
1Jo 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
That which you have learned from the Spirit! You should abide in!
1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Please consider your decision?
My how things are changing in these last times!
Stand up!
Ken
Quote (Stu @ Nov. 23 2007,14:45) Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 24 2007,02:45) Quote (kenrch @ Nov. 23 2007,09:19) Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. Who's his father, Jupiter or Zeus? I don't see YHVH in the GT so its pretty much wide open to who 'god the father' is. Jupiter means 'O father god'. That's pretty darn close.
Quote Mat 25:29 For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. Mat 25:30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
Mat 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
Hey didn't he say that some of the people standing before him when he said that would see that? Those guys must be looking pretty rough at almost 2000 years old. Or wait I think their likely dead.
Quote Mat 25:32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. Mat 13:4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
Mat 13:5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
Mat 13:6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
Mat 13:7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
Mat 13:8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
Mat 13:9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Mat 13:4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:Mat 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
Mat 13:26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
Mat 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
Mat 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
Mat 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Yawn. The words of a man who never fulfilled a single messianic prophecy. Or did he? I need to read some other religions texts maybe they speak of him. Hinduism perhaps?
And since there was no verifiable dictated copy of the after dinner speeches and allegorical anecdotes of Jesus in existence in 70+CE, “Matthew” (whoever he was) had to make it up or copy others anyway.To think of all the tonnes of videotape wasted by the Trinity Broadcasting Network. If just 0.0000000000000001% of that tape used to record the pathological rantings of Benny, Creflo et al had been technologically available to actually make a record of Jesus giving the Sermon on the Mount…
Of course they did have writing, but didn't use it!
Stuart
Stu,What's amazing is that the average lifespan of people in Jesus' time was at best 30-40 so for any of the gospels to be eyewitness accounts, the ones who wrote them were well beyond the typical life of people back then. Let's just say that John was 18 when he followed Jesus. Since most scholars put the gospel of Johh at around 90 CE, that would make John 78 years old. Quite a feat back then! Much like someone living to 110-120 years old now, maybe older.
See how U-2 agree!
Come talk to me After you find that Jesus is true! I mean after you have done your what you think is your thing?!
HA!
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