Functional Doctrine or TeachingI would like to ta

[music4two]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 23 2007,18:42)

Hi m42, No. You are a valued member here but there are some things we have not heard from you as to how we can follow Jesus. From much of what you have said it could be derived that salvation and understanding the ways of God is by our own natural human resources and it would be good if this confusion could be cleared up. Matthew 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. Mark 8:35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it. Luke 9:24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it. Luke 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. I am offering you an opportunity to say clearly that we cannot save ourselves, that we must be born again, that we need the Spirit to lead us and that the grace of God is essential in the plan of God.

OK, let me make it very clear —
You must be regenerated (born again, if you will) from above to be saved. Absolutely we need the Spirit (breath) of God to lead us. Absolutely we are to rely on the grace of God through the blood of Christ. I have not posted on threads dealing with salvation. I have concentrated on subjects that should be a concern for those aleady saved. I assume those who post on these threads are already saved. I did not think it necessary to reiterate salvation protocol in every post. Certainly we cannot attain salvation by our own resources. Understanding God's plan for man and our role in that plan can be understood from a regenerated heart. this regenerated heart is not an overnight occurance but developes over time As God continues to heal it. I speak of understanding and thinking in the heart because I believe, as the Hebrews did, that the heart is the seat of our will and that area from which we should think. My next post will elaborate more on this.

We are not perfect when we are saved. We are to work out our salvation daily and be transformed from glory to glory. This is helped by proper teaching/doctrine. If a teaching does not function in making us like Christ, it is a waste of time. Even Jesus said He and His father were doing the works. They worked together in partnership to bring about the Father's will on the Earth. If our hearts are not functional because of sin or hurt, we become less effective for God. We become dysfunctional for God's use and His kingdom.

All of my posts on functionality have this simple concept woven though them. God is a reasoning being. He created this world for a purpose. He has a plan for it. Our job is to work with God's plan (including salvation through grace and God's power) to see that his purpose is served in the Earth and in us.

Simplity put, functionality is a test to see if a teaching or a concept works to accomplish God's plan. What is the benefit of the teaching toward God, His plan and His people. The reason why some refuse to consider functionality is because they either do not understand or they realize that their pet doctrines serve no good purpose. Such as the doctrine of the Trinity.

[music4two]

It has become apparent to me that some on this board have not a clue as to how the Hebrew writers of scripture thought or wrote. Even some who claim an abhorance to Western thought, have not yet come to an understanding ot the Eastern cultures. Trying to understand scripture from a western thought process will always lead to missinterpretation and mistake. For example, take the word “heart”. Heart (lev, Heb.)
Allow me to post a wonderfull discription of the heart from a Hebrew perspective from The Ancient Hebrew Research Center.

Here is an example of our modern western culture still using a concrete object to express an abstract idea. We often associate the heart with emotions such as love and kindness as in “He has a good heart”. This is also true with the Hebrews who saw the heart as the seat of emotion. But unlike us they also saw the heart as the seat of thought whereas we see the brain as the seat of thought. To the ancient Hebrews the heart was the mind including all thoughts including emotions. When we are told to love God with all our heart (Deut 6:5) it is not speaking of an emotional love but to keep our emotions and all our thoughts working for him. The first picture in this Hebrew word is a shepherd staff and represents authority as the shepherd has authority over his flock. The second letter is the picture of the floor plan of the nomadic tent and represents the idea of being inside as the family resides within the tent. When combined they mean “the authority within”.

http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/27_heart.html

Of course, this flies in the face of those that wish to push that man is a willy nilly milk toast with little or no controll over his own destiny. This also ties in very clearly with the concepts of function and action that God desires and indeed requires on our part. Certainly God provides the path for our salvation, but it is our authority within or free will that must chose that path. God wishes that none parish but all come to Him. With that in mind, He will use every persuasive situation possible to “enchorage” our authority within (heart) to turn to Him.

Consider this understanding in the following scriptures.

Deuteronomy 30:10
if you obey the LORD your God to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this book of the law, if you turn to the LORD your God with all your heart (authority within) and soul.

Deuteronomy 32:46
he said to them, ” Take to your heart (authority within) all the words with which I am warning you today, which you shall command your sons to observe carefully, even all the words of this law.

1 Samuel 12:24
” Only fear the LORD and serve Him in truth with all your (authority within) heart; for consider what great things He has done for you.

Deuteronomy 30:2
and you return to the LORD your God and obey Him with all your (authority within) heart and soul according to all that I command you today, you and your sons,

Genesis 6:5
Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his (authority within) heart was only evil continually.

Genesis 20:6
Then God said to him in the dream, “Yes, I know that in the integrity of your (authority within) heart you have done this, and I also kept you from sinning against Me; therefore I did not let you touch her.

Deuteronomy 4:39
“Know therefore today, and take it to your (authority within) heart, that the LORD, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other.

Romans 10/ 9 and 10 – If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; for with the (authority within) heart man believes, resulting in righteousness and with the mouth he confesses resulting in salvation.

Romans 2/ 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the (authority within) heart, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men but from God.

Romans 6/ 17 – But thanks be to God that though you were slaves to sin, you became obedient from the (authority within)heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed.

Mark 7:21
“For from within, out of the (authority within) heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries,

Acts 8:37
[ And Philip said, “If you believe with all your (authority within) heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”]

Romans 10:10
for with the (authority within) heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Ephesians 1:18
I pray that the eyes of your (authority within) heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,

Ephesians 6:6
not by way of eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the (authority within) heart.

Colossians 3:15
Let the peace of Christ rule in your (authority within) hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body; and be thankful.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the (authority within) heart.

Hebrews 13:9
Do not be carried away by varied and strange teachings; for it is good for the (authority within) heart to be strengthened by grace, not by foods, through which those who were so occupied were not benefited.

[NickHassan]

topical

[chosenone]

Hi music4two.
This is the first time I have seen your post, do you mind if I give my opinion? I'll give it, and you can ignore it if you wish.
First answers to your questions”

1.A- No
B- Not sure what this question means.
C- No
D-No
2. -Yes
3. -No
4. -Yes

I believe the scriptures (commonly referred to as the Bible), are not what orthodoxy teaches, that it is instructions from God on what we should do to earn our salvation. I believe that scripture teaches “What God is doing, and how He will save all mankind.”
It begins with God, through Moses, giving the Jews (His chosen people) the “law” and a covenant with them on what they need to do to enter the “kingdom”, and prophesied that a “Messiah” would be sent to be their King. They could not keep the “law”, and when their 'Messiah' came they rejected and murdered Him. God did this so that to prove to us that we are not capable of 'earning' our salvation. Their covenant with God was then broken, so God has set them aside, and turned to the nations “gentiles”. The death and resurrection of Christ Jesus, who took on the sins of the world, has “justified” all mankind, God no longer see's our sin, we have been “conciliated” to God.
Scripture says, that the 'flesh' cannot please God. Those that God chooses at this time, the ecclesia, are put in the “Body of Christ”, as he wills. This is acomplished by “baptizing” them with His Holy Spirit, we are then not of the flesh, but of spirit. As you have probably noticed, none of this is accomplished by anything fleshly man does, it is by God alone. Scripture says “His (God) achievement are we”. We are all saved, but not at the same time (see 1Cor. 15) as to the timetable. I know this description of God's ways, is not taught by “Christianity” as a whole, but I believe this is a brief description of what scripture is saying. Again, this understanding is given by God through His Holy Spirit, none can be understood unless it is of God, given by the Holy Spirit. Two scriptures, in my opinion, stand out, “All is of God, all is by Him, thru Him, and for Him.” And also, “God is operating all according to the council of His will.”
This is my understanding, I am mortal, and am sure that Gods ways are a mystery to me in many ways, and I may be wrong regarding some of these things, but I feel God, through His Spirit has revealed this to me, Again, “All is of God”, and “He is operating ALL”, so whatever anyone believes, is of God. He has good reason as to how He will save all mankind. Many will say how stupid this belief of mine is, nevertheless, this is my opinion. I omitted all reference to scripture, but all my views have scripural evidence.
Hope I haven't bored you too much, thanks for allowing me to express my opinion.

God Bless.

[NickHassan]

Hi CO,
You say
” I believe the scriptures (commonly referred to as the Bible), are not what orthodoxy teaches, that it is instructions from God on what we should do to earn our salvation.”

Orthodoxy is heresy I agree teaching human follies such as trinity. It is not possible to earn our salvation except according to the mercy of God shown to those not born into Christ in Mat 25.31f. We follow the way of Christ and must be reborn into him to join with him as sons of the first resurrection.
Scripture says in Eph 2

 “4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. “

But Pauls's letter are to the saved and not the lost.

This letter is written not for the general public in Ephesus but

“1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:”

[chosenone]

All of Pauls epistles are for us, (Ro.. 15:15-16) …because of the grace being given to me from God, for me to be the minister of Christ Jesus for the nations, acting as priest of the evangel of God, that the approach present of the nations may be becoming well recieved, having been hallowed by holy spirit. Pauls letters are addressed to the saints in various places, but are for all gentiles.
You have your scriptures reversed, Paul is for the nations, Christ for the Jews.

Blessings.

[NickHassan]

Hi CO,
Paul said
“It is no longer I that liveth but Christ that liveth in me”
God made one people from two.

But you would separate again those whom God has joined together?
Is that wise?

[chosenone]

Your statement makes no sense.

[NickHassan]

Hi CO,
Christ joined the gentiles with the olive tree of Judaism.
Paul too was one in the Spirit of God with Christ.
All men are invited to the feast without division.
Many branches finish up feeding the fire.
Most will be too busy to come.

[chosenone]

Still makes no sense.

[NickHassan]

Hi martian,
Looks like the same thread as your new one.

[Author]

Posts