Functional Doctrine or TeachingI would like to ta

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December 17, 2006 at 5:12 pm#34601

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I would like to take a different approach then I have seen on this board. Rather then argue cut and paste theology or disecting scripture, I wish to discuss the functionality or purpose of doctrine. As a secondary goal we can then line up the doctrines being taught here and see if they actually do function.

First it is important to understand the way in which God teaches us.

Teaching as the Hebrews (including Jesus) practiced had little to do with “Doctrine” as we know it today. Jesus never taught from the perspective of Law. He always dealt with the motives and intentions of man. Jesus taught wisdom on how to live to become sons of God.

The purpose of a parents Torah is to teach and bring the children to maturity. If the Torah is violated out of disrespect or defiant disobedience, the child is punished. If the child desires to follow the instructions out of a loving obedience but falls short of the expectations, the child is commended for the effort and counseled on how to perform the instructions better the next time. Unlike Torah, law is a set of rules from a government or authority and binding on a community. Violation of the rules require punishment. With this type of law, there is no room for teaching, either the law was broken with the penalty of punishment or it was not broken.

The Torah was a set of teachings on wisdom designed to help the child live, prosper and succeed in this world as a son. Teachings designed to develop proper character and heart toward God and man. God, as our heavenly Father, gives his children his Torah in the same manner and for the same reasons. God’s teachings or doctrines are all designed with the welfare of His children in mind. They are designed to further His purpose to raise up children with His character. The so-called teachings or “Doctrines” of today must function as the Torah did in Biblical times or they are not God’s teachings..

There is an unfortunate belief by many Christians that if a person understands a teaching intellectually they posses it spiritually. This is simply hog wash. A mental understanding of the mind is not the same as an experiential understanding of the spirit and heart. Truthfully many Christians are so unfamiliar with spiritual understanding they do not even seek it. So involved are they in learning some other mental exercise they leave the functionality and true understanding far behind.

It is also unfortunate that many never seek to know the wisdom of God but rather seek any intelectual mental philosophy by which to engage in debate or mentally ascend to what they believe is spirituality.

Many operate within a box of historical dogma without ever considering if what they have been taught really makes any sense or if it actually produces good fruit in their lives. For some it is a fear of pushing the outside of the envelope. They fear being on the outside of the normal excepted Christianity. They do not seem to see that the “norm” as it is produced in most churches today is dead and has been for centuries. For others it is a convient escape from facing real teaching and the vulnerability it requires. Biblical Torah forces us to deal with the real motives and intentions of the heart rather then just a mental exercise of facts and figures.

The very fist step in unerstanding God’s teaching is to prepare to have our hearts motives and intentions challenged. God does not teach intelectual data. Instead He teaches wisdom to His children.

The second most important detail in understanding doctrine from the word is to understand what has been written. We must understand the Bible from the mindset of those who wrote it. God’s words were written within, to and by people in a Hebrew culture.

We of modern cultures have a difficult time thinking as the Hebrews of Biblical times. Since the writers of scripture were all Hebrew, it is of vast importance that we understand how they thought in order to truly understand what they wrote. We have been raised to think in terms of Greek philosophy and mental priorities. Greek philosophy relates God to man by way of mental creeds, disciplines, and dogmas. Hebrews relate to God by way of experiences and relationship.

A Greek will see God by thinking about a list of attributes. He sees himself and his world as an outsider and separate from God. He sees God as he mentally understands Him. He describes God via intellectual data. Ask a Greek thinker about the love of God, he says, “God is love”. Simpler yet? Ask a Greek thinker to describe a pencil – “it is yellow and ten inches long.”

A Hebrew sees God as an integral part of everything he is and does. As an intregral part of the world around him. A Hebrew sees God as he experiences Him. He describes God via relationship with Him. Ask a Hebrew about the love of God, he says, “God loves me.” Simple again? Ask a Hebrew to describe a pencil – “I write with it.”

When one really examines Biblical teaching, it is not about understanding some metaphysical, transcendental mystical concept. True teaching as displayed by Jesus had a very simple purpose. His purpose was to teach us how to live Godly lives in accordance with the will of God. His life is the example and pattern for us to follow.

In most cases when scripture speaks about an attribute of God it is tied in with an understanding that must be seen through spiritual eyes. An understanding that instructs us on how to become a son of God. An instruction that requires an experiential action. For example:

John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

If all we had were the first four words of this verse we could debate for centuries about the mystical qualities of God’s spiritual nature. Fortunately we have the remainder. In the rest of the verse God declares why it is important for us to know that He is a Spirit. In order for us to have communion with Him we must do so in a manner that is effective in a spiritual world. Only after we do this can we hope to understand truth as in teaching or doctrine.

Allow me to develop what it means to deal in spiritual realms. The worlds of Greek philosophy have done great harm to the meanings of a spiritual life. One of the most damaging of these philosophies is dualism. This teaching promotes a distinct separation between the spiritual realm and the natural realm. It teaches that only the transcendental realm of the Spirit has merit while denouncing the natural realm as evil or of a lower nature. The Hebrews never saw the world in such a manner. They see the world both physical and spiritual as inseparable and all part of the Kingdom of God. They believed that God reveals Himself and teaches us through the physical, natural realm. It is on this physical natural earth that we are perfected and made into sons. It is by walking in the Kingdom of God ON THIS EARTH, that we become like Christ.

Jesus taught that the Kingdom of God was present on Earth 2000 years ago.
Matthew 12:28
But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

Again Jesus proclaims the Kingdom of God is at hand.
Mark 1:15
And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Everything we do in the physical realm has an impact in the spiritual realm and vice versa.

The purpose of God’s creation was to raise up sons and daughters to himself. Children with the same characteristics as Him. This is the purpose for God revealing himself in the natural physical realm in the person of Jesus Christ. So that we might have a perfect example of what it is like to have the character of God in a human being.

Discussions on the doctrines of God and His attributes should also be discussed with the goal of function toward becoming Christlike. By comparison, mental understanding is a waste of time. We become teachers of the law rather then exampl
es of Christ’s characteristics. Any so-called spiritual teaching that detracts from the goal of becoming like Christ or makes it harder to accomplish should be at least questioned if not avoided.

I would like to here your take on the matter.

Let’s begin with the purpose of teaching or doctrine. I would like to entertain coments from those who can define what they believe doctrine should do.

December 17, 2006 at 6:25 pm#34602

NickHassan

Participant

Hi m42,
Certainly the approach of the greeks to Christ brought some new problems into the kingdom. They came to him in Jn 12
” 19The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, Perceive ye how ye prevail nothing? behold, the world is gone after him.

20And there were certain Greeks among them that came up to worship at the feast:

21The same came therefore to Philip, which was of Bethsaida of Galilee, and desired him, saying, Sir, we would see Jesus. ”

and they responded to Christ in Paul.

Acts 14:1
And it came to pass in Iconium, that they went both together into the synagogue of the Jews, and so spake, that a great multitude both of the Jews and also of the Greeks believed.

Acts 17:4
And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.

Acts 17:12
Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

Acts 18:4
And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

The same message was preached to them as to the Jews.

Acts 20:21
Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ

But early on Paul was aware of the different responses from the two groups.

1 Corinthians 1:22
For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

and howthe gentile greeks struggled with that gospel.

1 Corinthians 1:23
But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

Yet the gospel applies to both.

1 Corinthians 1:24
But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

The problem for the greeks is that they must find what is written aligns with their cultural and foundational basis of reason and logic. Few here are asking in the jewish way is Jesus rreally was the Messiah or where is the power of god shown that justifies the message preached but they are asking for mental satisfaction of the gospel according to logic and reason.

But logic and reason come from man and we are not to be taught by man but by God according to the Spirit. We must submit to the wisdom of scripture and not accept only what aligns with our natural minds. Wisdom is justified by her children.

December 17, 2006 at 6:54 pm#34604

music4two

Participant

thank you for your coment, although you did not answer my pimary question. What is the purpose of Doctrine?

I think part of your statement is wrong but I will not be side stepped again from my question.

December 17, 2006 at 7:55 pm#34607

NickHassan

Participant

Hi m42,

Good doctrine comes from the Word of God.
Scripture is the mouth of God.
Deuteronomy 32:2
My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

Proverbs 4:2
For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law.

Isaiah 28:9
Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

But Jesus was the vessel of God Himself and brought power too.

Luke 4:32
And they were astonished at his doctrine: for his word was with power.

His teachings were Truth and according to Knowledge.

He lives and continues this work in his followers.

Acts 2:42
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

This doctrine is according to the Spirit of truth within them and aligned with the Word.
It is written on hearts.
Jer 31
33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Jn 15
26But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

27And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

2Jn 2
24Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

25And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

26These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

December 17, 2006 at 9:10 pm#34609

NickHassan

Participant

Hi m42,
We do cut and paste scripture because that is the berean thing to do.
We have a queue of teachers coming through here who wish to present their doctrinal slants and the only way to test what they bring is to test it against the Word of God. Sadly we find few that are truly aligned but we are always willing to hear what they have to say so that all may learn.

December 17, 2006 at 10:16 pm#34611

music4two

Participant

You konw Nick, I appeciate your knowledge of scripture references, but you still have not answered the question. I will not be swayed from my question.
In your own words tell me the purpose of teaching? What are we trying to accompolish in study? God has a plan. What is the plan and how does teaching function to help fullfill that plan.

December 17, 2006 at 10:21 pm#34612

NickHassan

Participant

Hi m42,
Feeding on the Word of God, the bread of life, allows the growth of Christ in his brothers. That teaching or doctrine is always according to the Word and equips men for service for God in the body of Christ.

1Tim 4
” 15Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.

16Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.”

2Tim 1
” 3If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

…24And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

25In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

26And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”

2Tim 3
” 13But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

14But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.”

December 18, 2006 at 12:30 am#34617

music4two

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 17 2006,22:21)