Fully God, Fully Man

[epistemaniac]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 16 2007,18:49)

Hi E, So there is an economic and ontological trinity? Does the committee have to change hats when they swap from one to another?

do you really find your questions to be that amusing or particularly insightful Nick?

[epistemaniac]

… if so… you need to get out a bit more my man…. if you only have yourself for entertainment or wit…. then you will soon find yourself to be the sole member of your audience, and the only one laughing at the sound of your own voice…. is a particularly disturbing image to be sure…..

[NickHassan]

Hi E,
Trinity is not biblical and is an amusing false concept. The emperor is naked.

[Not3in1]

Epi, I noticed you shared with us your qualifications granted to you by a Christian College; however, you didn't mention that you are also a Counselor?

If you are wise, and taught in Apologetics, you must be used to receiving critical responses to your personal belief system? Apologetics must have a thick skin to some degree. In other words, they do not take things personally. Otherwise you end up name calling, and pointing fingers at people instead of just dividing the word and teaching.

Considering you have way more knowledge than I…you have a degree….I will be watching, listening, and learing from YOU! And if this is the case, I gently suggest getting rid of that huge chip on your shoulder so I can accept your kind and loving direction.

I do not have a degree – I attend the College of the Kitchen Table, and I doubt I will ever graduate.

I encourage you to keep sharing the truth you know. I also encourage you to take the higher road (considering you are more learned than I). Obviously, I am the “weaker” faith, and more patience is needed.

[Not3in1]

Epi,
Your personal attacks on Nick are disturbing……

Many here enjoy Nick's budding questions and antedotes. He won't be alone laughing, trust me.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (epistemaniac @ April 17 2007,04:52)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 16 2007,18:49) Hi E, So there is an economic and ontological trinity? Does the committee have to change hats when they swap from one to another? do you really find your questions to be that amusing or particularly insightful Nick?

E

I think your “attacks” on NH illogical questions is justified.

For he keeps making the ridiculous statements like…

Quote

Posted: April 17 2007,07:00   ——————————————————————————– Hi E, So read between the lines and you see Jesus IS also the Father? He really is his own father? naaa

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
If you were not such a devoted defender of theology and rather more openminded you might be able to laugh with us.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 18 2007,03:37)

Quote (epistemaniac @ April 17 2007,04:52) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 16 2007,18:49) Hi E, So there is an economic and ontological trinity? Does the committee have to change hats when they swap from one to another? do you really find your questions to be that amusing or particularly insightful Nick? E I think your “attacks” on NH illogical questions is justified. For he keeps making the ridiculous statements like… Quote Posted: April 17 2007,07:00 ——————————————————————————– Hi E, So read between the lines and you see Jesus IS also the Father? He really is his own father? naaa

Scripture plainly states that the Father is the only true God.

So if Jesus is God, then he must be the Father.

But the truth is that he is the son and he is of God.

It isn't ridiculous WorshippingJesus.

[Tim2]

t8,

Scripture states that the Father is the only true God. It doesn't state that only the Father is the true God. Rather, it states that Jesus and the Spirit are also the same God. Nor does Scripture state that God is one person. What you need, t8 & co, is a verse that says only the Father is the true God, but there is no such verse.

Tim

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (t8 @ April 17 2007,19:36)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 18 2007,03:37) Quote (epistemaniac @ April 17 2007,04:52) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 16 2007,18:49) Hi E, So there is an economic and ontological trinity? Does the committee have to change hats when they swap from one to another? do you really find your questions to be that amusing or particularly insightful Nick? E I think your “attacks” on NH illogical questions is justified. For he keeps making the ridiculous statements like… Quote Posted: April 17 2007,07:00   ——————————————————————————– Hi E, So read between the lines and you see Jesus IS also the Father? He really is his own father? naaa Scripture plainly states that the Father is the only true God. So if Jesus is God, then he must be the Father. But the truth is that he is the son and he is of God. It isn't ridiculous WorshippingJesus.

t8

And so if Jesus is a Son of God then you must be Jesus, right?

How foolish you guys must look.

Its really not hard to understand Jn 1:1, but it is by divine revelation to see how the Word/God can be with God.

[NickHassan]

HiW,
Indeed those in the body of Christ are as Jesus on earth if they live according to the Spirit of Christ.

Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

[Not3in1]

Tim2 writes:
What you need, t8 & co, is a verse that says only the Father is the true God, but there is no such verse.
************************

LORD = God Almighty (see Preface to any bible)

Deut. 32:6
Is this the way you repay the LORD, O foolish and unwise people?
Is he not your Father, your Creator, who made you and formed you?

Psalm 89:26
He will call out to me, 'You are my Father, my God, and Rock my Savior.

Isaiah 63:16
But you are our Father, though Abraham does not know us or Israel acknowledge us; you, O LORD, are our Father.

Malachi 2:10
Have we not all one Father? Did not one God create us?

John 8:42
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me….”

I'll end with the verse in John because it seems appropriate to do so. The bible is packed full of verses that say God is One. Packed full of verses that say God is our Father. If you are looking for a verse to say exactly: The Father is God, and he is not three persons, the Trinity is false. You probably won't find it. Just as you won't fine a verse that says exactly: The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, God is three persons.

[Tim2]

Nick,

I've been waiting a long time to say this: So now you think that you are Jesus? naaaa

Not3in1,

None of your verses say that only the Father is God. Rather, they affirm that the Father is God, which is the testimony of all Trinitarians. Saying that the Father is the only true God doesn't exclude the possibility of the Son and the Spirit being the same God because Scripture never says that God is only one person, but it does say that these three persons are God (John 17:3, John 1:1, Acts 5:4). It doesn't matter that these aren't all in one verse. Verses are human inventions. What matters is that the Bible says it, therefore it's true.

Again, when Scripture says that God is one, it uses the same word for the union of husband and wife: echad. A man and a woman become one flesh in marriage. Two persons (three counting the child that is conceived), one flesh. This is the image of God. Genesis 1:27.

Tim

[NickHassan]

Hi Tim,
Are you not a working member of his body?

[Tim2]

Hi Nick,

Only those who confess that Jesus is YHWH are members of His body. You can be saved if you repent of your blasphemies and confess that Jesus is YHWH, the true God, and believe that for our salvation He became man and died for your sins.

However, with regard to those who are in the body of Christ. Yes, they are His body. But they are not the same person as Jesus. If you can accept this, how is that you cannot accept that Jesus and the Father are the same God but not the same person?

Tim

[Adam Pastor]

It appears that some don't know what the simple meaning is, of the word 'only'

From http://www.dictionary.com
alone; solely; exclusively … single in superiority or distinction; unique

If the Father is the ONLY true GOD then the ONLY true GOD is the Father!!

To say “Scripture states that the Father is the only true God.  It doesn't state that only the Father is the true God.” or  “Saying that the Father is the only true God doesn't exclude the possibility of the Son and the Spirit being the same God“
is both nonsensical and ridiculous! As well as plain bad grammar.

ONLY means … solely, unique … ONLY has the same exclusivity as the numeral ONE.

If the Father is the ONLY true GOD then NO OTHER being or person can qualify!
If there is solely ONE Almighty GOD then there can be no other being/person who can claim that title or be equal to Almighty GOD.

It is really that simple. Simple grammar. A child can understand it.

“ONLY TRUE” means ONE! No other can claim it!
If the Father is the ONLY True GOD then He alone is the Only True GOD.
If there is solely ONE Almighty GOD, the Father (1 Cor 8.4,6)
Then He alone is GOD … there is no other.

That simple word ONLY (or whatever its Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek equiv.) on the lips of Jesus makes it clear that Jesus' GOD and Father is the ONLY TRUE GOD. Therefore Jesus is NOT Almighty GOD.
No. He is the Messiah, the Son of the ONLY TRUE GOD.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Tim2 @ April 18 2007,09:40)

Hi Nick, Only those who confess that Jesus is YHWH are members of His body.  You can be saved if you repent of your blasphemies and confess that Jesus is YHWH, the true God, and believe that for our salvation He became man and died for your sins.   However, with regard to those who are in the body of Christ.  Yes, they are His body.  But they are not the same person as Jesus.  If you can accept this, how is that you cannot accept that Jesus and the Father are the same God but not the same person? Tim

Hi Tim2,
Extraordinary.
Where is this written?

[Tim2]

Nick,

Romans 10:9.

Adam,

Your grammatical theories make sense only if God is one person. But that claim is never made in Scripture. It is precisely the claim of the Trinity that each of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are the only true God. This makes sense because the only true God exists in three persons, which is what the Bible says (John 17:3, John 1:1, Acts 5:4).

The trouble you're having with this is that in creation it can never be the case that a substance has two separate existences (or subsistences) without being divided. But who are we to limit God and demand that He comply with the laws of creation? We know that God is spirit and uncreated. Therefore, He cannot be subject to the same limitations as creation.

But God has given us an example in creation to help us understand, that of His image in man and woman. At marriage they are no longer two, but one flesh. This means that the flesh of both of them exists wholly and without division in each of them, not just in both of them together. So if Joe and Jane are married, it is proper to say, “Joe is the only flesh of Joe and Jane” as well as “Jane is the only flesh of Joe and Jane.” To say that either one of them is not the whole flesh of the couple would be to divide their flesh, which Jesus forbids in Matthew 19:6.

Tim

[NickHassan]

Hi Tim2,
You say
'None of your verses say that only the Father is God.  Rather, they affirm that the Father is God, which is the testimony of all Trinitarians.  Saying that the Father is the only true God doesn't exclude the possibility of the Son and the Spirit being the same God because Scripture never says that God is only one person, but it does say that these three persons are God (John 17:3, John 1:1, Acts 5:4). ”

It does, however, exclude the possibility of God being a father and having a son.

” It doesn't matter that these aren't all in one verse.”

Any port in a storm?

[Not3in1]

Two persons (three counting the child that is conceived), one flesh. This is the image of God.
*********************
Wow. This is stretching it a bit, don't you think?

[Author]

Posts