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Jesus is YHWH, the true God,
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Tim – is there a verse that says Jesus is the only true God? Where?Quote (Tim2 @ April 18 2007,02:43) Your grammatical theories make sense only if God is one person. But that claim is never made in Scripture.
Tim, if this be the case I really do not know what or which Bible you read, in whatever language!!The Scriptures declare solely ONE Almighty GOD.
In the NT he is called the Father, where it is said that there is ONE GOD, 'The Father' … where it is said 'GOD IS ONE' … where it is said that the Father is the ONLY True GOD …
In the OT (Hebrew Bible) over & over again GOD is described as ONE which means ONE Being or ONE Person!!The Jews never ever believed that GOD was more than ONE Person. They only knew and spoke of ONE Being/Person who is GOD whom they called YHWH.
Daily they quote the Shema … (Deu 6:4) Hear, O Israel: YHWH our God YHWH is one
To them that means there is solely ONE Being … ONE Person who is their GOD, namely YHWH.
Plus of course you have over 10000 singular pronouns which describe GOD as ONE Person … He/Him/Me etc.
Using language, what other way was GOD suppose to communicate to us that He is Solely ONE and there is no other co-equal Being/Person who can be called GOD besides Him!!For example …
- (Deu 4:35) Unto thee it was showed, that thou mightest know that YAHWEH he is God; there is none else beside him.
- (2 Ki 19:15) And Hezekiah prayed before YAHWEH, and said, O YAHWEH God of Israel, which dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; thou hast made heaven and earth.
- (Isa 44:8) … Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
- (Isa 45:5-6) I am YAHWEH, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: 6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am YAHWEH, and there is none else.
- (Isa 45:21-22) … I YAHWEH? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. 22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
- So in addition to the fact, that the OT describes GOD as ONE; describes YAHWEH as uniquely GOD; as solely GOD; as alone GOD!
- In addition to the fact, that the NT confirms this fact, that GOD is ONE, and calls the ONE GOD, the Father
- In addition to the thousands upon thousands of singular pronouns that describe GOD as a Single Person
We have Jesus the Messiah himself confirming the Shema (Dt. 6:4). Confirming the fact that he alongside his fellow believing Jews know of solely ONE Person who is Almighty GOD.
Look again at the exchange:Quote (Mark 12:28-34) And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: 33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.Now I ask you?
Is there any impression from this exchange that either Jesus or the scribe knew of another Person who is GOD besides the GOD described in Deut 6.4?
Is there any impression from this exchange that either Jesus or the scribe were trinitarian? who believed that their GOD was triune?
Is there any impression from this exchange that the scribe believed for one moment that the man before him was also himself, Almighty GOD?If one would be honest one will have to come to the conclusion that from this exchange neither Jesus nor the scribe were trinitarian. And the scribe had absolutely no concept that the Messiah himself was also the ONE GOD of the Shema. (I contend that the Messiah also shared this view!)
No! The Shema confirms the exclusivity of the Father as the ONE & ONLY (True) GOD.
Jesus, the ONE GOD's Messiah & Son, confirmed the Shema, thus, confirmed this exclusivity.
The scribe understood Jesus of Nazareth as confirming this exclusivity … that the Father alone is the ONE GOD and that there is none other but He
This is the most important commandment.
Life in the Age to Come (AKA eternal life) is dependant upon this understanding according to John 17.3.(John 17:3) And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 19 2007,07:06) Only those who confess that Jesus is YHWH are members of His body.
Oh yeah right!Isn't it mentioned somewhere in the book of fables? Fable 1:1 or something?
Hi Tim2,
“Nick,Romans 10:9.”
Rom 10.9
” 9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”So Jesus is Lord
He was raised by God.
What has this to do with what you said?“Only those who confess that Jesus is YHWH are members of His body. You can be saved if you repent of your blasphemies and confess that Jesus is YHWH, the true God, and believe that for our salvation He became man and died for your sins.
However, with regard to those who are in the body of Christ. Yes, they are His body. But they are not the same person as Jesus. If you can accept this, how is that you cannot accept that Jesus and the Father are the same God but not the same person?”
This very verse again differentiates Jesus as Lord from his Father God but you are blind to it?
Not3in1,
Jesus is called the true God in 1 John 5:20.
Nick and t8,
Lord = YHWH. Read Romans 10:9-10:13. The same is Lord of all.
Adam,
Again, not one verse that says God is one person. If you had read my last post, you would know that the “one (echad) in Deuteronomy 6:4 and the shema does not mean one person but is in fact a word for compound unity, not absolute oneness, which is denoted by yachid. That's why the same word describes multiple persons in Genesis 2:24. How can you say that Deuteronomy 6:4 proves that God is one person, when the same word is used to describe multiple persons who are one in Genesis 2:24? But there are many places where echad indicates multiple persons:
Genesis 11:6
Genesis 34:16
Exodus 24:3
Ezra 2:64
Jeremiah 32:28-39In contrast, the Hebrew word yachid that expresses absolute oneness is never used about God. You can see uses of this with reference to only one person here:
Genesis 22:2
Genesis 22:12
Judges 11:34
Psalm 22:20If you're going to say that God is only one person because He calls Himself “Me,” you also have to explain where He calls Himself “Us” in the early chapters of Genesis. “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness.” “Behold, the man has become like ONE OF US.” And the Trinity can speak as one because of its unity of being and will. That is why the Trinity has one name in Matthew 28:19.
Adam, I don't think you understand the Trinity. The Trinity does not propose three gods. The Trinity says there is only one God. All of the verses you gave prove that there is one God, and you are right. It is the polytheists such as David that you should be showing these to. You just insist without any proof that God is only one person. But this cannot be, for the Word was God. And Thomas confessed that Jesus is God. And Peter calls the Holy Spirit God in Acts 5:4. But Jesus has even helped us to understand by telling us, “The Father and I are one.” So there is only one God, and three persons are God. This is exactly what the Bible says. The Trinity does no more than repeat what the Bible says.
Hi Tim2,
You say
“Nick and t8,Lord = YHWH. Read Romans 10:9-10:13. The same is Lord of all. “
Is Jesus not your Lord?
He should be.
Who is?Hi Tim2,
You say
“The Trinity does not propose three gods. The Trinity says there is only one God. All of the verses you gave prove that there is one God, and you are right. It is the polytheists such as David that you should be showing these to. You just insist without any proof that God is only one person. But this cannot be, for the Word was God. And Thomas confessed that Jesus is God. And Peter calls the Holy Spirit God in Acts 5:4. But Jesus has even helped us to understand by telling us, “The Father and I are one.” So there is only one God, and three persons are God. This is exactly what the Bible says. The Trinity does no more than repeat what the Bible says.”
Indeed the trinity is a human PROPOSITION.
It is not written.
It is PROPOSED as an extrabiblical explanation for things that are harder to resolve in scripture.
As a PROPOSITION then it cannot be a foundation doctrine nor can it be used to define who is in the Kingdom.
Is it wise to PROPOSE such things and add to scripture?Actually Nick, YHWH is Lord. Everyone who calls on the name of YHWH shall be saved. Joel 2:32. Do you think Paul was changing Scripture, asserting a different Lord besides YHWH? I don't think the first commandment would allow that.
Hi Tim2,
You say
' That's why the same word describes multiple persons in Genesis 2:24. How can you say that Deuteronomy 6:4 proves that God is one person, when the same word is used to describe multiple persons who are one in Genesis 2:24? But there are many places where echad indicates multiple persons:”Do you really think God was alone in Genesis?
Nick, if the Trinity is just a proposition, then show me which of the following are not true from Scripture:
1. There is only one God.
2. The Father is God.
3. The Son is God.
4. The Holy Spirit is God.Tim
Quote (Tim2 @ April 19 2007,07:06) Actually Nick, YHWH is Lord. Everyone who calls on the name of YHWH shall be saved. Joel 2:32. Do you think Paul was changing Scripture, asserting a different Lord besides YHWH? I don't think the first commandment would allow that.
Hi Tim2,
Do you know that it is a quote from Joel2?
Either way Jesus should be your Lord.Lk 13
“25When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: “Many will call him ” lord, lord ” and be disappointed but you do not even do that?
Quote (Tim2 @ April 19 2007,07:07) Nick, if the Trinity is just a proposition, then show me which of the following are not true from Scripture: 1. There is only one God.
2. The Father is God.
3. The Son is God.
4. The Holy Spirit is God.Tim
Hi Tim2,
The word is yours
“The Trinity does not propose three gods.”
Should you change it?Nick, you think someone other than YHWH is Lord? naaaa
“And there shall be no night there; and they shall need no candle, neither light of the sun. For the LORD GOD giveth them light: and they shall reign forever and ever.” Revelation 22:5
Hi all,
Anyone else here who can help this man who does not think Jesus is Lord?
The Holy Spirit shows us this
1 Corinthians 12:3
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.Jesus is called the true God in 1 John 5:20.
****************Tim2, keep looking. This verse can be interpreted to mean either God or the Son – check out any study bible notes on this one.
Jesus is NOWHERE – including this verse conclusively – called the One true God. You can hope that this verse points to Jesus, but you also have to remember…….this is only one verse. Are you really willing to base eternity on one verse? Peter got the question right (Who do you say that I am?). Remember what his response was, and follow his example. His answer was revealed to him by the One true God.
Hi Tim2,
Do you not yet know your appointed Lord Jesus Christ?
How can you start to serve him if you do not?
There is salvation in no other name
under heaven.Not3in1,
How many gods are there? If Jesus is God, and there is only one God, well then that makes Him the only God.
Nick,
Do you have another Lord besides YHWH? You will call on the name of another for salvation, disobeying the prophet Joel? Haven't you read the first commandment? Why are you proposing new deities?
Tim
Quote (Tim2 @ April 19 2007,07:07) Nick, if the Trinity is just a proposition, then show me which of the following are not true from Scripture: 1. There is only one God.
2. The Father is God.
3. The Son is God.
4. The Holy Spirit is God.Tim
I have asked the exact same thing here, my question wasn't answered then either…..Quote (Tim2 @ April 19 2007,20:10) Not3in1, How many gods are there? If Jesus is God, and there is only one God, well then that makes Him the only God.
Nick,
Do you have another Lord besides YHWH? You will call on the name of another for salvation, disobeying the prophet Joel? Haven't you read the first commandment? Why are you proposing new deities?
Tim
Hi Tim2,There is NOT only one god. There are many gods.
But there is only one true God, and that is the Father.Jesus can still be a God, His Father called Him such. Moses can still be a God, God called him such.
But only the Father is the true God.Tim
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