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This says Jesus was from “Everlasting”
2 “ But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
Though you are little among the thousands of Judah,
Yet out of you shall come forth to Me
The One to be Ruler in Israel,
Whose goings forth are from of old,
From everlasting.” Micha 5:2Your thoughts?
Hi ,
from OLD
Number 6924
Transliteration:
qedem {keh'-dem} or qedmah {kayd'-maw}
Word Origin:
from 6923
TWOT:1988a
Part of Speech:
Usage in the KJV:
east 32, old 17, eastward 11, ancient 6, east side 5, before 3, east part 2, ancient time 2, aforetime 1, eternal 1, misc 7Total: 87
Definition:
n m
east, antiquity, front, that which is before, aforetime
front, from the front or east, in front, mount of the East
ancient time, aforetime, ancient, from of old, earliest time
anciently, of old (adverb)
beginning
east advfrom EVERLASTING
Number 3117
Transliteration:
yowm {yome}
Word Origin:
from an unused root meaning to be hot
TWOT:
852
Part of Speech:
noun masculine
Usage in the KJV:
day 2008, time 64, chronicles 01697 37, daily 44, ever 18, year 14, continually 10, when 10, as 10, while 8, full always 4, whole 4, alway 4, misc 44Total: 2279
Definition:
day, time, year
day (as opposed to night)
day (24 hour period)
as defined by evening and morning in Genesis 1
as a division of time
a working day, a day's journey
days, lifetime (pl.)
time, period (general)
year
temporal references
today
yesterday
tomorrow .Little evidence it means the son never became a son there.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 12 2006,01:55) Hi ,
from OLD
Number 6924
Transliteration:
qedem {keh'-dem} or qedmah {kayd'-maw}
Word Origin:
from 6923
TWOT:1988a
Part of Speech:
Usage in the KJV:
east 32, old 17, eastward 11, ancient 6, east side 5, before 3, east part 2, ancient time 2, aforetime 1, eternal 1, misc 7Total: 87
Definition:
n m
east, antiquity, front, that which is before, aforetime
front, from the front or east, in front, mount of the East
ancient time, aforetime, ancient, from of old, earliest time
anciently, of old (adverb)
beginning
east advfrom EVERLASTING
Number 3117
Transliteration:
yowm {yome}
Word Origin:
from an unused root meaning to be hot
TWOT:
852
Part of Speech:
noun masculine
Usage in the KJV:
day 2008, time 64, chronicles 01697 37, daily 44, ever 18, year 14, continually 10, when 10, as 10, while 8, full always 4, whole 4, alway 4, misc 44Total: 2279
Definition:
day, time, year
day (as opposed to night)
day (24 hour period)
as defined by evening and morning in Genesis 1
as a division of time
a working day, a day's journey
days, lifetime (pl.)
time, period (general)
year
temporal references
today
yesterday
tomorrow .Little evidence it means the son never became a son there.
Can you explain what you are trying to say? What do you think the verse should say instead of everlasting?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 12 2006,01:55) Hi ,
from OLD
Number 6924
Transliteration:
qedem {keh'-dem} or qedmah {kayd'-maw}
Word Origin:
from 6923
TWOT:1988a
Part of Speech:
Usage in the KJV:
east 32, old 17, eastward 11, ancient 6, east side 5, before 3, east part 2, ancient time 2, aforetime 1, eternal 1, misc 7Total: 87
Definition:
n m
east, antiquity, front, that which is before, aforetime
front, from the front or east, in front, mount of the East
ancient time, aforetime, ancient, from of old, earliest time
anciently, of old (adverb)
beginning
east advfrom EVERLASTING
Number 3117
Transliteration:
yowm {yome}
Word Origin:
from an unused root meaning to be hot
TWOT:
852
Part of Speech:
noun masculine
Usage in the KJV:
day 2008, time 64, chronicles 01697 37, daily 44, ever 18, year 14, continually 10, when 10, as 10, while 8, full always 4, whole 4, alway 4, misc 44Total: 2279
Definition:
day, time, year
day (as opposed to night)
day (24 hour period)
as defined by evening and morning in Genesis 1
as a division of time
a working day, a day's journey
days, lifetime (pl.)
time, period (general)
year
temporal references
today
yesterday
tomorrow .Little evidence it means the son never became a son there.
Hi,
Try olam….H5769עלם עולם‛ôlâm ‛ôlâm
o-lawm', o-lawm'
From H5956; properly concealed, that is, THE VANISHING POINT; generally TIME OUT OF MIND (past or future), that is, (practically) ETERNITY; frequentative adverbially (especially with prepositional prefix) ALWAYS: – ALWAYS (-S), ANCIENT (TIME), ANY MORE, CONTINUANCE, ETERNAL, (for, [n-]) EVER (-LASTING, -MORE, OF OLD), lasting, long (time), (of) old (time), PERPETUAL, AT ANY TIME, (beginning of the) world (+ WITHOUT END). Compare H5331, H5703.The Son is Eternal.
Mic 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, FROM EVERLASTING[H5769 ôlâm] .Here’s another example of the Son being eternal if you believe He is Wisdom itself.
Pro 8:12 I, WISDOM, dwell in counsel, and am present in learned thoughts.
Pro 8:23 I WAS SET UP FROM ETERNITY [H5769 ôlâm ], and of old, before the earth was made.Blessings in the name of Jesus
Hi Scrip. seeker,
Olam is not used in Micah 5:2
Here is another place Olam is used that does not mean Everlasting:
Gen 6:4There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown.
which [were] of old,Click to do Phrase Search on 'which [were] of old'[05769] `owlam
So the questions is how do you know which verses it should be used in which way?
Prophetically, with reference to the Messiah, Micah 5:2 (KJ) says his “goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.” Dy reads: “his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity.” Does that make him the same as God? It is noteworthy that, instead of saying “days of eternity,” RS renders the Hebrew as “ancient days”; JB, “days of old”; NW, “days of time indefinite.”
Quote (sscott @ Nov. 12 2006,02:35) Hi Scrip. seeker, Olam is not used in Micah 5:2
Here is another place Olam is used that does not mean Everlasting:
Gen 6:4There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown.
which [were] of old,Click to do Phrase Search on 'which [were] of old'[05769] `owlam
So the questions is how do you know which verses it should be used in which way?
Hi sscott,Mic 5:2 But thou,859 Bethlehem1035 Ephratah,672 though thou be1961 little6810 among the thousands505 of Judah,3063 yet out of4480 thee shall he come forth3318 unto me that is to be1961 ruler4910 in Israel;3478 whose goings forth4163 have been from of old,4480, 6924 from everlasting.4480, 3117, 5769
Mic 5:2 not only uses olam it also uses the Hebrew word yome in conjunction. What does this mean???
Quote
What is present in the passage at hand is a “piling up” of descriptors which is another means of hyperbolising or emphasising a point, in this case a repetition of “from of old, from everlasting”. This translation in the KJV is from the Hebrew miqqedem miymey 'olam. IN THE HEBREW LANGUAGE, THERE IS NO SUPERLATIVE CONSTRUCTION AVAILABLE TO EXPRESS IDEAS LIKE “BIGGEST”, “BEST”, “FASTEST”, ETC. TO MAKE UP FOR THIS LACK, THIS PILING UP OR REPETITION OF RELATED IDEAS AND WORDS IS USED AS AN EMPHATIC STRUCTURE TO INDICATE THAT THE OBJECT, ETC. BEING DESCRIBED IS BEING TREATED SUPERLATIVELY. One example of this that appears elsewhere in the Hebrew scriptures is in Proverbs 8:23. The KJV translates this passage as “I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.” In Hebrew this verse reads me'olam nisakhtiy merosh miqqadmey-erets. In this verse, we see olam, our word under contention, connected with other adjectives such as rosh and qedem which also denote both primacy of position or order (a derivative of rosh appears as “In the beginning” in Genesis 1:1) as well as a long, indefinitely past time period, all being used to emphasise the eternal pre-existence of divine Wisdom with God.Likewise, in Micah 5:2 miymey 'olam appears in emphatic combination with miqqedem, a word which also denotes “a long time past”, and which is almost universally translated (even when it stands alone)15 as some form of the idea of eternity of everlastingness. The repetition in order and the piling on of similar adjectives indicates that something more than a mere earthly “days of old” is meant in this verse. Indeed, from the way repetition is used throughout the Hebrew scriptures, this repetitive construction can almost be said to demand the translation of miymey 'olam as “from everlasting”. This is all the more so when we consider that Micah 5:2 piles on yet more emphatic structures into this verse beyond the one seen above.
Source http://www.studytoanswer.net/judaism/micah5n2.htmlIf that’s no enough….Who was begotten without mother, conceived without earthly Father?
Heb 7:3 Without father,540 without mother,282 without descent,35 having2192 neither3383 beginning746 of days,2250 nor3383 end5056 of life;2222 but1161 made like unto871 the3588 Son5207 of God;2316 abideth3306 a priest2409 continually.1519, 1336
Who abideth a priest continually?
Yahshua is savior and creator by which all things are….I believe the family is created in the image of the Godhead.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and GODHEAD; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the CREATOR [G2936], who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Col 1:16 For by him were all things CREATED [G2936], …..When God reveals he is alone, who is revealed???
Blessings in the name of Jesus
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 12 2006,02:45) Hi SS,
THe Son is a Son.
Do you deny the Son of God?
The Son is not just Wisdom.
Hi Nick,The Son is the Son, how many times do I have to say this?
Yahshua is the Son this is who He is.
But what is he?
This is the question.
God from God, the Son is eternally generated from the Father.
If he is not God he is not a true Son.
Just as Husband and Wife can be one flesh yet two flesh the Father and Son can be one God yet both are Lord and God.A Son eternally genearted without mother shares in the exact nature of the Father. This is why when you see the Son you see the Father. When people see you do they see your earthly father.
You cannot divide the Father from the Son and there Spirit they are one. 1X1X1= 1
Three persons one Godship.I believe the family is the best earthly example of the Trinity. The true Son eternally generated by the Father alone is *one* with the Father the origin from whom he comes. There is only one eternal nature.
Joh 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
A dog cannot give birth to a cat just as a human cannot give birth to a monkey.
Without the only true Son of God we cannot be Sons of God and even if we are clothed in him this does not make us the great God and Savior or the first and the last or the creator by whom all things are just to name a few….
You are right Yahshua is more than just wisdom and He is more than just an image also in fact its only because He is the only true Son that He is the exact image of the Father.
Or do you believe He is only a Son because he is the image?
If this is what you believe this is very weak, I am not the image of my earthly father but yet I am still his earthly Son. Sons are more than just imagesI need you to answer *what* Yahshua is? There is no way I can even begin to understand what foundation you build on without this basic revelation.
Luk 10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.
Luk 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.It is good to see that you do not believe the Son is an Archangel.
**What has the father revealed to you?** What is the Son?Once you understand the unity of the Father Son and Holy Ghost in spirit and there undivided spirit from Father [origin] you will understand that the Father wants us to worship his spirit in unity. This is why the Father commands his Son to be worshipped calls his Son both Lord and God and reveals him as the creator of the heavens and earth.
Do you understand the unity of the spirit? Will you humble yourself?
Or will you only look at Yahshua as he humbled himself from his former appearance and glory for the 33 years while he assumed the flesh after which he was *GLORIED* with the Fathers ownself the glory he had from the beginning.
Why look at 33 years only and not look at eternity?Blessings in the name of Yahshua
Hi SS,
You say
“Once you understand the unity of the Father Son and Holy Ghost in spirit and there undivided spirit from Father [origin] you will understand that the Father wants us to worship his spirit in unity. This is why the Father commands his Son to be worshipped calls his Son both Lord and God and reveals him as the creator of the heavens and earth.”So was Christ always sharing the Spirit of God or was he anointed with the Holy Spirit?
Scripture agrees with the second option as the Son was a being who submitted to God's will.Acts 10
“37You know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached— 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.”Hi SS,
You say
“Do you understand the unity of the spirit? “Is it similar to the unity of Christ with his body?
Jn 17
“11I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one”Are we still individual beings with life in ourselves and a will of our own?
Perhaps similar to the unity God sees between man and wife?
Eph 5
“28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church— 30for we are members of his body. 31″For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”[c] 32This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church.”Do husbands and wives still maintain individuality of being and will in their unity here compared with Christ and his church?
Hi SS,
You say
“A Son eternally genearted without mother shares in the exact nature of the Father. This is why when you see the Son you see the Father. When people see you do they see your earthly father.
You cannot divide the Father from the Son and there Spirit they are one. 1X1X1= 1
Three persons one Godship. “But you never see the son as GENERATED but in some state of constant generation that is never complete. So he is never a true son but a part of God who came in the flesh thus rendering your doctrine antichrist[1Jn 4].
My toenail shares my exact chromosomes and is part of me but does it fully reflect my being? The moon reflects the Sun but is far from equal to the Sun. God has a glorious Son but that Son is an image of the Almighty God and not the same being.
When men saw the Son they saw his God within him and working through him in the fullness of deity. He was not That which indwelled him as a vessel.
2Cor 5
“19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.”Col 2.9
” 9For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,”Hi SS,
You say
“Sons are more than just images”Yes but sons are always SONS.
The Son was loved by the Father before he was sent.
Lk 20
“Luke 20:13
Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence him when they see him.”Love usually involves two not one.
Quote (sscott @ Nov. 13 2006,00:31) Hey Nick, Who do you think Melchizedek was? He had no beginning or end.
Hi sscott,
I have answered in the Melchizedek thread. He had a beginning and an end, but they are not recorded, thus used as a type.Quote Posted: Nov. 12 2006,10:56 ——————————————————————————–
Quote (sscott @ Nov. 12 2006,02:35)
Hi Scrip. seeker,Olam is not used in Micah 5:2
Here is another place Olam is used that does not mean Everlasting:
Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown.
which [were] of old, Click to do Phrase Search on 'which [were] of old' [05769] `owlam
So the questions is how do you know which verses it should be used in which way?
Hi sscott,
Mic 5:2 But thou,859 Bethlehem1035 Ephratah,672 though thou be1961 little6810 among the thousands505 of Judah,3063 yet out of4480 thee shall he come forth3318 unto me that is to be1961 ruler4910 in Israel;3478 whose goings forth4163 have been from of old,4480, 6924 from everlasting.4480, 3117, 5769
Mic 5:2 not only uses olam it also uses the Hebrew word yome in conjunction. What does this mean???
Quote
What is present in the passage at hand is a “piling up” of descriptors which is another means of hyperbolising or emphasising a point, in this case a repetition of “from of old, from everlasting”. This translation in the KJV is from the Hebrew miqqedem miymey 'olam. IN THE HEBREW LANGUAGE, THERE IS NO SUPERLATIVE CONSTRUCTION AVAILABLE TO EXPRESS IDEAS LIKE “BIGGEST”, “BEST”, “FASTEST”, ETC. TO MAKE UP FOR THIS LACK, THIS PILING UP OR REPETITION OF RELATED IDEAS AND WORDS IS USED AS AN EMPHATIC STRUCTURE TO INDICATE THAT THE OBJECT, ETC. BEING DESCRIBED IS BEING TREATED SUPERLATIVELY. One example of this that appears elsewhere in the Hebrew scriptures is in Proverbs 8:23. The KJV translates this passage as “I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.” In Hebrew this verse reads me'olam nisakhtiy merosh miqqadmey-erets. In this verse, we see olam, our word under contention, connected with other adjectives such as rosh and qedem which also denote both primacy of position or order (a derivative of rosh appears as “In the beginning” in Genesis 1:1) as well as a long, indefinitely past time period, all being used to emphasise the eternal pre-existence of divine Wisdom with God.Likewise, in Micah 5:2 miymey 'olam appears in emphatic combination with miqqedem, a word which also denotes “a long time past”, and which is almost universally translated (even when it stands alone)15 as some form of the idea of eternity of everlastingness. The repetition in order and the piling on of similar adjectives indicates that something more than a mere earthly “days of old” is meant in this verse. Indeed, from the way repetition is used throughout the Hebrew scriptures, this repetitive construction can almost be said to demand the translation of miymey 'olam as “from everlasting”. This is all the more so when we consider that Micah 5:2 piles on yet more emphatic structures into this verse beyond the one seen above.
Source http://www.studytoanswer.net/judaism/micah5n2.htmlIf that’s no enough….Who was begotten without mother, conceived without earthly Father?
Heb 7:3 Without father,540 without mother,282 without descent,35 having2192 neither3383 beginning746 of days,2250 nor3383 end5056 of life;2222 but1161 made like unto871 the3588 Son5207 of God;2316 abideth3306 a priest2409 continually.1519, 1336
Who abideth a priest continually?
Yahshua is savior and creator by which all things are….I believe the family is created in the image of the Godhead.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and GODHEAD; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the CREATOR [G2936], who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Col 1:16 For by him were all things CREATED [G2936], …..When God reveals he is alone, who is revealed???
Blessings in the name of Jesus
Excellent SS:D
Quote Hi Nick, The Son is the Son, how many times do I have to say this?
Yahshua is the Son this is who He is.
But what is he? This is the question.
God from God, the Son is eternally generated from the Father.
If he is not God he is not a true Son.
Just as Husband and Wife can be one flesh yet two flesh the Father and Son can be one God yet both are Lord and God.A Son eternally genearted without mother shares in the exact nature of the Father. This is why when you see the Son you see the Father. When people see you do they see your earthly father.
You cannot divide the Father from the Son and there Spirit they are one. 1X1X1= 1
Three persons one Godship.I believe the family is the best earthly example of the Trinity. The true Son eternally generated by the Father alone is *one* with the Father the origin from whom he comes. There is only one eternal nature.
Joh 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
A dog cannot give birth to a cat just as a human cannot give birth to a monkey.
Without the only true Son of God we cannot be Sons of God and even if we are clothed in him this does not make us the great God and Savior or the first and the last or the creator by whom all things are just to name a few….
You are right Yahshua is more than just wisdom and He is more than just an image also in fact its only because He is the only true Son that He is the exact image of the Father.
Or do you believe He is only a Son because he is the image?
If this is what you believe this is very weak, I am not the image of my earthly father but yet I am still his earthly Son. Sons are more than just imagesI need you to answer *what* Yahshua is? There is no way I can even begin to understand what foundation you build on without this basic revelation.
Luk 10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.
Luk 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.It is good to see that you do not believe the Son is an Archangel.
**What has the father revealed to you?** What is the Son?Once you understand the unity of the Father Son and Holy Ghost in spirit and there undivided spirit from Father [origin] you will understand that the Father wants us to worship his spirit in unity. This is why the Father commands his Son to be worshipped calls his Son both Lord and God and reveals him as the creator of the heavens and earth.
Do you understand the unity of the spirit? Will you humble yourself?
Or will you only look at Yahshua as he humbled himself from his former appearance and glory for the 33 years while he assumed the flesh after which he was *GLORIED* with the Fathers ownself the glory he had from the beginning.
Why look at 33 years only and not look at eternity?Blessings in the name of Yahshua
Well Spoken SS!!!
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