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Quote (lamontre @ June 11 2007,08:42) Quote (942767 @ June 11 2007,01:41) Quote Hi LAM: I believe that the answer to this is that he had Faith in God's Word. 1Jo 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.God Bless
Faith is a gift. Unbelievers do not have biblical faith, only believers do.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Hi Lam:Faith is a gift in that the Word of God is preached relative to message of salvation through our Lord Jesus, and so, the sower soweth the Word as in the parable of the seed being sown in a person's heart. If it falls on good soil, then it bears fruit. Faith that overcometh the world is that which trusts the Word of God when by the circumstances present seem to indicate that God will not be faithful to His Word. This kind of faith not only starts the race but endures unto the end.
Hebrews 11
11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.Of course, if some one is not born again, they can not possibly have this kind of faith, but the scripture that I quoted indicated this, and so let me paste it again.
1Jo 5:4
FOR WHATSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 11 2007,09:30) Hi LAM,
Indeed a man must be born again.
But it takes faith in response to the seed of the Word in good soil, to respond and come to Jesus.
To be born again?Do you have scripture to support that?
Quote (lamontre @ June 11 2007,09:10) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 11 2007,09:01) Does this mean because I strive to please God and my sister does not – that I have a greater gift of faith than she? Hmmmm
You can't be saved wrong. You either are, or you aren't. There is no inbetween condition.
There is a life that pleases God by which you strive for holiness and so obtain eternal life, there is also a life by which you live for yourself and sow in corrupt desires – you also receive from such a life the due penalty of sin. No?Once saved always saved?
Can one be saved and then commit the most vile of crimes against God and still be found righteous in Him?
Quote (942767 @ June 11 2007,09:44) Quote (lamontre @ June 11 2007,08:42) Quote (942767 @ June 11 2007,01:41) Quote Hi LAM: I believe that the answer to this is that he had Faith in God's Word. 1Jo 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.God Bless
Faith is a gift. Unbelievers do not have biblical faith, only believers do.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Hi Lam:Faith is a gift in that the Word of God is preached relative to message of salvation through our Lord Jesus, and so, the sower soweth the Word as in the parable of the seed being sown in a person's heart. If it falls on good soil, then it bears fruit. Faith that overcometh the world is that which trusts the Word of God when by the circumstances present seem to indicate that God will not be faithful to His Word. This kind of faith not only starts the race but endures unto the end.
Hebrews 11
11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.Of course, if some one is not born again, they can not possibly have this kind of faith, but the scripture that I quoted indicated this, and so let me paste it again.
1Jo 5:4
FOR WHATSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
I really can't disagree, but without first being born of God, one cannot have that faith that overcomes the world.Quote (Not3in1 @ June 11 2007,10:26) Quote (lamontre @ June 11 2007,09:10) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 11 2007,09:01) Does this mean because I strive to please God and my sister does not – that I have a greater gift of faith than she? Hmmmm
You can't be saved wrong. You either are, or you aren't. There is no inbetween condition.
There is a life that pleases God by which you strive for holiness and so obtain eternal life, there is also a life by which you live for yourself and sow in corrupt desires – you also receive from such a life the due penalty of sin. No?Once saved always saved?
Can one be saved and then commit the most vile of crimes against God and still be found righteous in Him?
You have that backwards.You would not be striving to please God had you not already obtained eternal life.
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.The question is rather, WOULD one born of God commit such vile crimes against God?
I think the scriptures make it clear that they do not.
Hi Lam,
I agree.
But faith can be effective even through works.
Tha mercy of God is incomprehensibly large knowing we are but flesh.
God shows mercy beyond our response, and beyond the way of Christ, to those who show mercy to those in His Son.
Mark 9:41
For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.
Matthew 10:42
And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 11 2007,10:33) Hi Lam,
I agree.
But faith can be effective even through works.
Tha mercy of God is incomprehensibly large knowing we are but flesh.
God shows mercy beyond our response, and beyond the way of Christ, to those who show mercy to those in His Son.
Mark 9:41
For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.
Matthew 10:42
And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.
Yes, I understand your point. But those verses do not support eternal salvation by works.Check the ever important context;
Mat 10:40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.Hi LAM,
Indeed to treat with mercy the sons of God in Christ is to show your faith in God who sent him, and sends them.Mt 25
” 33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. “
Quote (lamontre @ June 11 2007,10:32) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 11 2007,10:26) Quote (lamontre @ June 11 2007,09:10) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 11 2007,09:01) Does this mean because I strive to please God and my sister does not – that I have a greater gift of faith than she? Hmmmm
You can't be saved wrong. You either are, or you aren't. There is no inbetween condition.
There is a life that pleases God by which you strive for holiness and so obtain eternal life, there is also a life by which you live for yourself and sow in corrupt desires – you also receive from such a life the due penalty of sin. No?Once saved always saved?
Can one be saved and then commit the most vile of crimes against God and still be found righteous in Him?
You have that backwards.You would not be striving to please God had you not already obtained eternal life.
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.The question is rather, WOULD one born of God commit such vile crimes against God?
I think the scriptures make it clear that they do not.
Answer me this, then – my sister received Christ as a teenager. She went on into adulthood and lived her life for herself (doing all kinds of things that are illegal and so on). In fact, she died of a drug overdose a few years ago.She committed many crimes agains God's holy commandments. I doubt very seriously she had time to ask for forgiveness before she passed out and went face down in the bathtub and drowned – where she was found with a needle floating near by…..
Will she still be righteous before God on that Day?
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 11 2007,14:21) Quote (lamontre @ June 11 2007,10:32) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 11 2007,10:26) Quote (lamontre @ June 11 2007,09:10) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 11 2007,09:01) Does this mean because I strive to please God and my sister does not – that I have a greater gift of faith than she? Hmmmm
You can't be saved wrong. You either are, or you aren't. There is no inbetween condition.
There is a life that pleases God by which you strive for holiness and so obtain eternal life, there is also a life by which you live for yourself and sow in corrupt desires – you also receive from such a life the due penalty of sin. No?Once saved always saved?
Can one be saved and then commit the most vile of crimes against God and still be found righteous in Him?
You have that backwards.You would not be striving to please God had you not already obtained eternal life.
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.The question is rather, WOULD one born of God commit such vile crimes against God?
I think the scriptures make it clear that they do not.
Answer me this, then – my sister received Christ as a teenager. She went on into adulthood and lived her life for herself (doing all kinds of things that are illegal and so on). In fact, she died of a drug overdose a few years ago.She committed many crimes agains God's holy commandments. I doubt very seriously she had time to ask for forgiveness before she passed out and went face down in the bathtub and drowned – where she was found with a needle floating near by…..
Will she still be righteous before God on that Day?
Your asking me if God saved your sister?I can't answer that, I really do not know.
1Sam 16:7 But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.
Quote (lamontre @ June 11 2007,14:40) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 11 2007,14:21) Quote (lamontre @ June 11 2007,10:32) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 11 2007,10:26) Quote (lamontre @ June 11 2007,09:10) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 11 2007,09:01) Does this mean because I strive to please God and my sister does not – that I have a greater gift of faith than she? Hmmmm
You can't be saved wrong. You either are, or you aren't. There is no inbetween condition.
There is a life that pleases God by which you strive for holiness and so obtain eternal life, there is also a life by which you live for yourself and sow in corrupt desires – you also receive from such a life the due penalty of sin. No?Once saved always saved?
Can one be saved and then commit the most vile of crimes against God and still be found righteous in Him?
You have that backwards.You would not be striving to please God had you not already obtained eternal life.
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.The question is rather, WOULD one born of God commit such vile crimes against God?
I think the scriptures make it clear that they do not.
Answer me this, then – my sister received Christ as a teenager. She went on into adulthood and lived her life for herself (doing all kinds of things that are illegal and so on). In fact, she died of a drug overdose a few years ago.She committed many crimes agains God's holy commandments. I doubt very seriously she had time to ask for forgiveness before she passed out and went face down in the bathtub and drowned – where she was found with a needle floating near by…..
Will she still be righteous before God on that Day?
Your asking me if God saved your sister?I can't answer that, I really do not know.
1Sam 16:7 But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.
Great scripture!!Hi sscott,
I agree. God is still sovereign.His will is done despite all the stuff that happens here.
It is still good to choose to be aligned with that will as Christ told his disciples to pray for-“Thy will be done”
Job was allowed to be severely tested .
It was granted by God that Satan should be given that role.
Job suffered terrible losses and brought to the dregs of his soul to bring about good things.God has a good and acceptable and a perfect will.
We can also pray that we not be severely tested too.“lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil”
Hi sscott,
The bible is chock full of proof that mans fabled free will is a myth.
Did the pharoah have any free will when Moses told him to let my people go?
“For the Scripture says unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised you up, that I might show My powers in you, and that My name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore has He mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will He hardens” (Vers. 17-18).Pharaoh did not harden his own heart—God said that He hardened it.
“And the Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh and he hearkened not unto them, as the Lord had spoken unto Moses” (Ver. 12).
“…it is God [not man] which works in you BOTH TO WILL [God causes us ‘to will’] and TO DO [God causes us ‘to do’] of His good pleasure” (Phil. 2:13).
Tim
Hi All:
That God can put a thought in a person's heart and that person will obey him some times even with out knowing that he is obeying God is true, and also, God can create circumstances that will cause a person to accomplish God's will such as the Babylonian king Nebuchednazzar coming against Israel as a means for God to punish Israel for their disobedience.
But the question relative to “free will” is whether or not a person can choose to obey God willingly or not or whether or not a person has the freedom to disobey God by choice.
Jos 24:15
And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.Ro 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?James 1:13
Let no man say when he is tempted *, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted * with evil, neither tempteth he * any man:
1:14
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
1:15
Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.God Bless
Hi 94,
The whole story of scripture and the effectiveness of prophecy
is that the will of God IS DONE despite us.
Some produce a large profit, some a little, some none.Quote (TimothyVI @ June 13 2007,08:03) Hi sscott,
The bible is chock full of proof that mans fabled free will is a myth.
Did the pharoah have any free will when Moses told him to let my people go?
“For the Scripture says unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised you up, that I might show My powers in you, and that My name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore has He mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will He hardens” (Vers. 17-18).Pharaoh did not harden his own heart—God said that He hardened it.
“And the Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh and he hearkened not unto them, as the Lord had spoken unto Moses” (Ver. 12).
“…it is God [not man] which works in you BOTH TO WILL [God causes us ‘to will’] and TO DO [God causes us ‘to do’] of His good pleasure” (Phil. 2:13).
Tim
Hi TimVI.
Right on. (Eph.1:11) “God is operating ALL according to the council of HIS will”.
Is mans “will” stronger than God's “Will”? No.Blessings.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 13 2007,12:56) Hi 94,
The whole story of scripture and the effectiveness of prophecy
is that the will of God IS DONE despite us.
Some produce a large profit, some a little, some none.
Hi Nick:God has forseen who would be saved and who would not, and He is faithful to keep his promises whether or not some one endures to the end or not. There are some that will endure to the end and be saved.
But he is not willing that any man should perish but that all may come to repentance, but according to scripture there are those that will not repent in spite of every thing that God has done and may do.
God will not force some one to obey Him.
Hi 942767,
Here's a comment by Spurgeon on God forseeing faith:
“But,” others say, “God elected them on the foresight of their faith.” Now, God gives faith therefore He could not have elected them on account of faith, which He foresaw. If there were twenty beggars in the street, and I determine to give one of them a dollar, will anyone say that I determined to give that one a dollar, that I elected him to have the dollar, because I foresaw that he would have it? That would be talking nonsense. Likewise, to say that God elected men because He foresaw they would have faith, would be too absurd for us to listen to for a moment. Faith is the gift of God.
http://www.biblebb.com/files/spurgeon/elect.htm
You need to re-read the verse about “all coming to repentance”:
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.Peter is speaking to BELIEVERS. He is longsuffering “TO US-WARD” (the elect) not willing that any should perish.
Also when Jesus say “if I be lifted up I will draw all men to myself” He is speaking of all nations. When Jesus was on earth he was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. After the resurrection salvation was offered to the gentiles as well. That what Jesus was speaking about when He said He will draw all men to Himself.
Quote (sscott @ June 13 2007,14:42) Hi 942767, Here's a comment by Spurgeon on God forseeing faith:
“But,” others say, “God elected them on the foresight of their faith.” Now, God gives faith therefore He could not have elected them on account of faith, which He foresaw. If there were twenty beggars in the street, and I determine to give one of them a dollar, will anyone say that I determined to give that one a dollar, that I elected him to have the dollar, because I foresaw that he would have it? That would be talking nonsense. Likewise, to say that God elected men because He foresaw they would have faith, would be too absurd for us to listen to for a moment. Faith is the gift of God.
http://www.biblebb.com/files/spurgeon/elect.htm
You need to re-read the verse about “all coming to repentance”:
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.Peter is speaking to BELIEVERS. He is longsuffering “TO US-WARD” (the elect) not willing that any should perish.
Also when Jesus say “if I be lifted up I will draw all men to myself” He is speaking of all nations. When Jesus was on earth he was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. After the resurrection salvation was offered to the gentiles as well. That what Jesus was speaking about when He said He will draw all men to Himself.
Hi sscott:Faith is a gift from God. The scripture states:
John 3:15
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
3:17
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
3:19
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
3:20
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither * * cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
3:21
But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.Romans 10:13
For * * whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
10:14
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed ? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard ? and how shall they hear without a preacher ?
10:15
And how shall they preach, except they be sent ? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
10:16
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.Do you not believe that God has forseen all from the beginning to the end?
Joh 6:64
But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.You say:
Quote You need to re-read the verse about “all coming to repentance”: 2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.Peter is speaking to BELIEVERS. He is longsuffering “TO US-WARD” (the elect) not willing that any should perish.
It would seem to me that Peter was talking about all of humanity when he says “us-ward”. The elect have already repented, and so why would be talking about God being long suffering toward the elect waiting for them to repent?
Lu 15:7
I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need * no repentance.You say:
Quote Also when Jesus say “if I be lifted up I will draw all men to myself” He is speaking of all nations. When Jesus was on earth he was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. After the resurrection salvation was offered to the gentiles as well. That what Jesus was speaking about when He said He will draw all men to Himself. My understanding in that he says “will draw all men to myself” is that he will judge the living and the dead.
Ac 10:42
And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.Ac 13:46
Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.Ac 17:31
Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.God Bless
God has predestined all according to His will:
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who blesses us with every spiritual blessing among the celestials, in Christ,
4 according as He chooses us in Him before the disruption of the world, we to be holy and flawless in His sight,
5 in love designating us beforehand for the place of a son for Him through Christ Jesus; in accord with the delight of His will,Not our will, His will.
Blessings.
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