- This topic is empty.
- Posts
What do you think the Bible teaches us about forgiving other people?
Clearly it is something that we should do, and there are plenty of texts telling us to forgive our brother 'as many as seventy times seven' (Matt 18:22) etc. The Lord's Prayer refers to our forgiving other people who have sinned against us (Matt 6:12), and, of course, Jesus is, as always, our perfect example of how to behave, forgiving those who confessed their sins, and asking God to 'forgive them for they know not what they do' when He was on the cross (Luke 23:34). When we confess our sins we know we have forgiveness from Christ.
Should forgive those who are not sorry?
If we do forgive people who are continuing to sin against us or those we love, must we cease to be angry with them?
Do we forgive a sin that has been committed if the person has stopped what they were doing, but not recognised that they were wrong? If so, do we treat such people as though they had done nothing wrong, thereby giving them the impression that we no longer believe that they were wrong?
In practical terms what does all this mean?
Hi Caroline,
The problem is that unforgiveness destroys us, and it also cuts us off form the forgiveness of God in our daily life ,which we need.I think that Yeshua wants us to get in the habit of forgiveness every time every day we are hurt for our own sake. Is that not turning the other cheek?
There is no point in carrying Unforgiveness around adding to tomorrow's burdens. We should not let the sun go down on our anger.
So what if it does not change the behaviours of others to do so? Their issues are their issues but we do not need the resultant depression and hurt that comes from not forgiving.
We receive the forgiveness of God in the washing of true Baptism but we still have to wash our own and each others feet every day in water too to keep clean.
In the time of Jesus they walked everywhere, the roads were dusty and they only wore sandals, so foot washing was necessary to keep healthy and to not drag dirt into our own or other's homes.
Water is the symbol of forgiveness.
Do you mean that if you can see someone doing something that is seriously – and possibly physically – damaging to someone else, and they know that you believe them to be wrong, you should behave towards them as though there was nothing wrong?
I am not talking about not bearing grudges, or being bitter – these are internal issues, and issues between ourselves and God – but about what forgiveness means in practical terms, when translated into everyday life.
So Caroline,
Does commonsense suggest a course of action.
Who decides what is serious?
Is it a matter of the world or the Body of Christ?
Should we mind our own business or get involved in judging others?
Have we been given responsibility for resolving these issues or does that responsibility belong to others?
Will be be distracted from the role given us if we take on other matters that have not been given to us?
Am I stopping the person from helping themself?
Am I taking over the role of someone else because I judge they are not competant to continue doing that work?
Galatians 6.2f
” Bear one another's burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ………For each will bear his own load”Hi Caroline,
If you were a fireman putting out a house fire and you saw a thief getting away with the family's jewels would you drop your hose and chase after him?We cannot be God. But God can do far more through us by prayer than achieved through our physical efforts and often that is the best option.
Discerning and binding the force behind the behaviours is often more effective than confronting the person doing them.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 08 2005,18:52) Does commonsense suggest a course of action. Who decides what is serious?
Is it a matter of the world or the Body of Christ?
Should we mind our own business or get involved in judging others?
Have we been given responsibility for resolving these issues or does that responsibility belong to others?
Will be be distracted from the role given us if we take on other matters that have not been given to us?
Am I stopping the person from helping themself?
Am I taking over the role of someone else because I judge they are not competant to continue doing that work?
Galatians 6.2f
” Bear one another's burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ………For each will bear his own load”
No.
The Word of God.
I thought the latter, but now suspect the former.
Not a matter of judgement, more of protection.
Responsibility for those being hurt, not for resolution.
There is nothing to be profitably taken on.
No.
No.
Whose burden to bear – the sinned against or the sinning? (Actually, I think that's fairly obvious.)Prayer is always the most important part of the solution, but life has to be lived while God does His work. Is it possible – acceptable – to forgive, but cut oneself off from a person because of their continuing or previous behaviour? Does such an action suggest a lack of forgiveness?
Thanks.
Hi C,
Parents are responsible for their children. Employers are responsible for their employees.Teachers are responsible for what they teach and those in authority are responsible for the exercise of that authority.But outside of those areas scripture says little about our responsibility for the actions for others. It also tells us to treat others as we would be treated and to love our enemies. There are special responsibilities as far as how we should treat our brothers.
It does not say anything about how we should relate to those whom we judge to be unfair in their treatment of others-unless they are brothers. If it is outside the church and illegal and serious then there are the world's remedies in recourse to the law.
If we are not hurt what do we have to forgive? Is it our role to judge them or punish them? If we are rejecting them to punish them should we? If it is simply to improve our circle of friends that is another matter I would have thought.
I would add that adult children have a responsibility towards their parents. Bearing one another's burdens also suggests a very wide responsibility for others – but I think you are talking about a responsibility for their behaviour, rather than their protection.
It is rather difficult to know how we would want to be treated if we are looking at someone who is behaving in a way we cannot imagine doing. Maybe the question is 'How should we be treated' if we behave in such a way? But that is taking us into the realms of judgement, and possibly punishment (in a corrective way), and is so fraught with emotion that it is very difficult to answer.
If someone is a brother (I am assuming that you are talking about the Body of Christ rather than human family relationships), but geographically distant, there is surely nothing more we can do once we have made it clear that what they are doing is unacceptable – unless, as you say, we are dealing with illegalities, in which case our actions would be much more straightforward.
It can be easier to forgive someone who has hurt you than someone who has hurt someone you love. Leaving that aside, the question I cannot answer is whether or not it is right to remove yourself from the firing line in order to protect yourself – and, to a lesser extent, others – from further hurt and unproductive argument, when you know that there is nothing you can do to improve the situation. Punishment does not come into this. Self-preservation does, and also protection of others. I think, too, that there is a desire not to feel hypocritical – 'If I welcome you into my home I am implicitly condoning your behaviour'. There is also the thought – and it is possible that this is actually the main point – that, while their behaviour is on-going, every association with them is going to renew the hurt.
I think of the apostles shaking the dust off their shoes when they had not been made welcome, of Jesus not associating with the Scribes and Pharisees, who had been given a chance, but rejected it, and of the instruction to cut off your right hand if it offends.
Hi Caroline,
Of course the letters of Paul were only written to the saved, the brothers of the Lord.Likewise the shaking of the dust from the feet applied to those who had refused the gospel a hearing.
Faith, though, avoids judgement; as God is the judge.
This isn't about judgement, though. It is clear to us when the most straightforward of God's instructions to us are being flouted. Recognition of sin does not imply judgement of the sinner.
Is there any reason to put ourselves into the firing line of the suffering that such behaviour causes? Should we not take whatever preventative measures we can to protect others from the same – or worse – suffering?
Is there any point in presenting ourselves as targets when our presence has no remedial effect?
Hi Caroline,
We do not serve ourselves or even logic ultimately. We seek the will of God in our life and He outlines that plan daily for us surely? Has He not made plain what he requires of you yet in this matter?If you got where you find yourself today through being in Jesus and following him and seeking his will then that is where he wants you to be surely; and the only way forward from here is to keep doing these things?
Jas 1.5
“But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him”Yes forgiveness is an interesting subject and one I would like to research more.
I am sure that we can all agree that if someone sins against us, then if they repent we forgive them. But do we forgive those who do not repent?
Maybe these scriptures answer that:
Matthew 5:44
But I tell you: Love your enemies [ Some late manuscripts enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you] and pray for those who persecute you,Luke 6:28
bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.Romans 12:14
Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.Matthew 6:14
For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.Matthew 6:15
But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.Mark 11:25
And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.”Luke 23:34
Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.” [ Some early manuscripts do not have this sentence.] And they divided up his clothes by casting lots.The verse above (if it is genuine) is interesting in that these men obviously hadn't repented. However they didn't know what they were doing, so that was the reason given. If they had knew what they were doing would Christ have prayed that prayer to God? Did he pray the prayer in the first place?
John 20:23
If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”I haven't got time right now to read the above verse in context. But it is interesting on the outset as it suggests that at least once it was permitted to not forgive. Any ideas on that?
Hi t8,
God has given us the authority to limit His forgiveness too. He does not want us to not forgive but we can.He wants us to be as Stephen and say
” Lord do not hold this sin against them”
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 10 2005,18:19) Hi Caroline,
We do not serve ourselves or even logic ultimately. We seek the will of God in our life and He outlines that plan daily for us surely? Has He not made plain what he requires of you yet in this matter?If you got where you find yourself today through being in Jesus and following him and seeking his will then that is where he wants you to be surely; and the only way forward from here is to keep doing these things?
Jas 1.5
“But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him”
I find that, particularly when you are in the middle of a distressing experience, it can be very difficult to identify the finer details of how you ought to behave. How far does loyalty stretch? Does compassion really lead you to just accept someone's unacceptable behaviour?In particular, if it seems that God is leading you in what seems to be the easier direction, then it can be difficult to believe that you are listening to Him rather than your own desires. Surely, therefore, it is necessary to challenge such feelings to see if they stand fast? That, surely, is wisdom.
My thoughts about the Scribes and Pharisees and the apostles shaking the dust from their shoes, were not intended to be direct commands, but simply an indication that sometimes it is right to move on.
To return to the initial question of how to behave when you have forgiven someone, here is a very simplistic example (and not one from experience):
If someone steals from you, is sorry, and you forgive them, then it is surely right (by Christian rather then human standards) for you to have no qualms about leaving them alone in a room with your valuables.
If they steal from you and do not admit that they have done so (for the sake of straightforward argument, let us assume that there is no doubt that they have stolen, and lay aside any issues of need etc), clearly you would still forgive them, but would you leave them alone with your valuables?Is there any reason why these principles should not be equally applied if someone is causing personal or emotional damage to you or those you love?
Hi Caroline,
Job's comforters never lied but they were not a lot of help to Job either. It is too easy to be the same for you too.The Word gives specific advice on how those in Christ should treat each other. But how we should treat those of the world we are only given general guidelines on. Essentially to treat them as Yeshua would have. He was direct and firm when he needed to be. But he also submitted everything in prayer to the Father.
Hurt can not only cause anger, but distrust and a sense of betrayal. These are harder to be healed than the hurt itself. How hard it is to establish faith in those who have already shown they are unworthy of that trust.
Prov 3.5
” Trust in the Lord with all your heart , and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him and He will make your paths straight. Do not be wise in your own eyes . Fear the Lord and turn away from evil”” forgive them Father for they know not what they do”
Forgiveness.
I believe that water symbolises the forgiveness of God as shown in Acts 2.38, 1Peter 3, Acts 22.16 and Jn 13.Hi,
Jn 13 speaks of baptism washing us all over and foot washing being the daily seeking of forgiveness from God for the dirt our feet pick up walking in the world.“10Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all. “
1Jn 1
” 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.”And he said he should do likewise.
“15For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.”
But we do not forgive those who blaspheme God but those who harm His vessels.
I've have always believed that in the manner that we forgive others is the manner used by God to forgive us. It is one of the more important choices we make in life. I've always sought to forgive others whether they repent or not, as there are times I need that kind of forgiveness. This could just be another case where I'm being “nicer than God”, but I always want to error on the side of grace then to error the other way (that does not make it right though). I suppose a consequence of forgiving without repentance could be that others may believe that God may do the same (which He doesn't) but I also believe that God will give me justice, but surprisingly you do not want the person to suffer for it once you've forgiven them, but for them to repent.
I do know that forgiveness is only possible through Gods love and I've found that remembering what I've been forgiven helps me to have the love needed to forgive others.
Hi Seekingtruth
I agree with you.
I have to go to work now be back later. My time (Aust) will be 5pm today. It's now 7.40am.Mark 11:25
And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.”One point to note is that it does not say “if you hold anything against anyone that has asked for forgiveness, forgive them” but it is a blanket “anyone” which I take to mean if I'm holding something against someone it would most likely be from them doing something to me and since I'm still “holding something against” them, they must not have asked for forgiveness.
Others thoughts?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
