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Quote (Tim Kraft @ May 02 2011,03:29) Quote (terraricca @ May 01 2011,07:10) Quote (Tim Kraft @ May 01 2011,06:59) There is neither Jew nor Greek, male nor female, bond or free. Gal.3:28 All are one. There is no separation except faith and works of the law. No one is saved by works of the law. Salvation is by faith and it is for all that believe. The 144000 is mis-understood. Twelve thousand from each of twelve tribes. There are no “tribes” all is ONE. No exclusions of anyone that accepts by faith. IMO, TK
TKdo not forget the spiritual Israel
Pierre
Pierre: The fig tree represented Israel. Jesus cursed the fig tree and said, ….no one would ever eat the fruit of the fig tree again…! I believe his referrence was to Israel.One of the great deceptions of religious doctrine is a physical bloodline of chosen people. There never was a chosen “bloodline” of people unto God. From the begining it has always been by “faith” man is connected to God. IMO, TK
TKhow could the figs tree have anything to do with the nation of Israel ?
some say that but it is only in there mind not in scriptures.Christ did not come to judge,he came to save what was lost.
there is no blood line in the spirit ;because there is no blood all is spirit ,
Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.the acte of worship to God must be done in
truth and spirittruth means it as to be totally committed to the truth of God
it must also be with your hearth and soul.Jas 4:8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
Jas 4:4 You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ May 02 2011,16:42) Quote (Tim Kraft @ May 02 2011,03:29) Quote (terraricca @ May 01 2011,07:10) Quote (Tim Kraft @ May 01 2011,06:59) There is neither Jew nor Greek, male nor female, bond or free. Gal.3:28 All are one. There is no separation except faith and works of the law. No one is saved by works of the law. Salvation is by faith and it is for all that believe. The 144000 is mis-understood. Twelve thousand from each of twelve tribes. There are no “tribes” all is ONE. No exclusions of anyone that accepts by faith. IMO, TK
TKdo not forget the spiritual Israel
Pierre
Pierre: The fig tree represented Israel. Jesus cursed the fig tree and said, ….no one would ever eat the fruit of the fig tree again…! I believe his referrence was to Israel.One of the great deceptions of religious doctrine is a physical bloodline of chosen people. There never was a chosen “bloodline” of people unto God. From the begining it has always been by “faith” man is connected to God. IMO, TK
TKhow could the figs tree have anything to do with the nation of Israel ?
some say that but it is only in there mind not in scriptures.Christ did not come to judge,he came to save what was lost.
there is no blood line in the spirit ;because there is no blood all is spirit ,
Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.the acte of worship to God must be done in
truth and spirittruth means it as to be totally committed to the truth of God
it must also be with your hearth and soul.Jas 4:8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
Jas 4:4 You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
Pierre
Pierre: The word of God/Jesus came as a two-edged sword. Cutting away the evil doers and restoring and healing those who accept Gods words from Jesus by faith.The prophets said the day(light of truth) would come, burning like fire, it was a great and terrible day. It was a great day for those who would turn(repent) from the old way of laws and ritual works to attempt salvation unto faith in what God says through Jesus. Faith alone cleans, heals,& makes whole!It is a terrible day for those who continue to follow the law for salvation. For them it was a day of burning, fire, total destruction. Leaving neither root nor branch. The fig tree was a picture for the mind to understand. Israel as a nation is no more preferred than anyone else.
You are correct that Jesus did not come to condemn the people but he did come that they “might” be saved. It was their choice to accept the new way of faith or reject it and continue in sin.
Resistence causes the opposite of intention! Anything you focus on to resist or expell or keep away is empowered by your attention and intention and becomes stronger in your life.
There is no need to resist lies and deceptions. Only turn your attention to the truth and accept that. Accepting the truth automaticly casts out lies and deceptons.Rule of thumb, anyone who commits to over twenty thousand hours to Bible truth, mostly by himself, is truly committed to the truth of God.
Jesus said to love your enemies and do good to those who treat you unkindly.
Jesus also said not to have aught (feelings against) against anyone. Go and reconcile with your enemy!
Does Jesus have an enemy? No!You quote to me,…wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double minded…..yet, when I say we have been forgiven, cleansed, made worthy, made whole and made perfect unto God, by his very words through Jesus, you disagree. Or do you? Are you sinless and perfect?
If I follow and believe all that God says to me through Jesus, how is it that you quote to me as…you adulterous people….
How can you say that anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God? I thought God so loved the world that he gave his son….! IMO, TK
To all,
According to what I understand the 1000 years is the Messianic Era and the World to come is the new earth.
There is a lot being said here. But I see few Scriptures to prove their believes. Pierre, you say Christ did not come to judge. The first time He didn't, however the second time He will smite the nation with the wrath of God.
Rev 19:11 ¶ And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.All those that do not hear Jesus at that time will be destroyed.
Act 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
Act 3:23 And it shall come to pass, [that] every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
This has not happened yet….until then nobody has heard and believed Jesus. Also only the truth will be taught by Chrst and His Saints…..
When Jesus has put all things under Him, then He will give the Kingdom back to God, so God may be all in all.
1Cr 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Tim, you have it right that the fig tree represents the nation of Israel.. Some even believe God is done with Israel, which is not true. Why would it even say this
Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Rev 7:5 Of the tribe of Juda [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad [were] sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:6 Of the tribe of Aser [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses [were] sealed twelve thousand.Rev 7:7 Of the tribe of Simeon [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar [were] sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:8 Of the tribe of Zabulon [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin [were] sealed twelve thousand.
And these are not the Spiritual Israelitres either. The nation of Israel always have been Gods people. We have to remember that ALL have fallen short of the glory of God, that includes the nation of Israel.
One day we will only hear the truth, and God will be all in all….Peace Irene
TK
Quote You quote to me,…wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double minded…..yet, when I say we have been forgiven, cleansed, made worthy, made whole and made perfect unto God, by his very words through Jesus, you disagree. Or do you? Are you sinless and perfect? If I follow and believe all that God says to me through Jesus, how is it that you quote to me as…you adulterous people….
go and read my quote again ,what i say about the worship of God from us ………….
you take it personally this is not and never was my intention,
Quote How can you say that anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God? I thought God so loved the world that he gave his son….! IMO, TK yes God loved the world (man) so much that for them he as given his son for a ransom.
but do you know what Paul says ,about the one who would not come to Christ and so reject the grace of God?
the world and his spirit belong to the devil,but the spirit of truth belong to God,
we can not sit at two tables at the same time we have to leave one to go to the other one,we can not serve two master .Pierre
Irene
it was in respond to TK quote ,and we were talking about the first coming of Christ ,
but yes you right that the second is for judgement.
Pierre
Quote (karmarie @ April 29 2011,23:14) Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ April 29 2011,06:32) I hope angels can materialize on Earth again 
. I doubt there's a scriptural reference for it though.
BC&JW,
I looked but cant find anything. What do the JWs teach on this? (Are you a JW yet)?
I should be baptized very soon(within a few years), until then i'm searching out everything(the best I can). This is the one question JW's don't know nor never thought of. I believe this is the Ace if anyone wants to challenge JW's.P.S. I shouldn't be telling you that
BC&JW,
Quote until then i'm searching out everything(the best I can). Well, thats the best way to do it. “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.”
Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ May 04 2011,04:48) Quote (karmarie @ April 29 2011,23:14) Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ April 29 2011,06:32) I hope angels can materialize on Earth again . I doubt there's a scriptural reference for it though.
BC&JW,
I looked but cant find anything. What do the JWs teach on this? (Are you a JW yet)?
I should be baptized very soon(within a few years), until then i'm searching out everything(the best I can). This is the one question JW's don't know nor never thought of. I believe this is the Ace if anyone wants to challenge JW's.P.S. I shouldn't be telling you that
May I ask you why you have to wait about 2 years to get baptized?
Since you will get Gods Holy Spirit at baptism, you would understand Scriptures so much more…So why that waiting period?
Peace IreneQuote This is the one question JW's don't know nor never thought of. I believe this is the Ace if anyone wants to challenge JW's. Hi Between.
I personally think you are very wrong on both accounts. This is not the “one” question most JW's have never thought of. There are at least hundreds of things. And this is definitely not “the” ace for challenging JW's. It does not even come close in my opinion. Most JW's would say: “interesting question” and then dismiss it as quickly as it came. It would be put on a pile of other things we don't know answers to, but I assure you, no one is going to stumble over this question.David
Quote (david @ May 16 2011,16:43) Quote This is the one question JW's don't know nor never thought of. I believe this is the Ace if anyone wants to challenge JW's. Hi Between.
I personally think you are very wrong on both accounts. This is not the “one” question most JW's have never thought of. There are at least hundreds of things. And this is definitely not “the” ace for challenging JW's. It does not even come close in my opinion. Most JW's would say: “interesting question” and then dismiss it as quickly as it came. It would be put on a pile of other things we don't know answers to, but I assure you, no one is going to stumble over this question.David
As one that studies with the JW's and born into the JW's it stumbles me almost as much as the proclaimers book stumbles me. I have no plans on disassociated myself however.Quote (Baker @ May 04 2011,10:43) Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ May 04 2011,04:48) Quote (karmarie @ April 29 2011,23:14) Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ April 29 2011,06:32) I hope angels can materialize on Earth again . I doubt there's a scriptural reference for it though.
BC&JW,
I looked but cant find anything. What do the JWs teach on this? (Are you a JW yet)?
I should be baptized very soon(within a few years), until then i'm searching out everything(the best I can). This is the one question JW's don't know nor never thought of. I believe this is the Ace if anyone wants to challenge JW's.P.S. I shouldn't be telling you that
May I ask you why you have to wait about 2 years to get baptized?
Since you will get Gods Holy Spirit at baptism, you would understand Scriptures so much more…So why that waiting period?
Peace Irene
Baptism as a JW is well more serious and offer more consequences if you decide to be a spiritual delinquent. Moreover when I get baptized I don't want to my faith to be solid and not shaken by similiarities in religions, bible translations(all translations are biased btw including the NWT) etc. I could get baptized as a JW right now but for what?If you aren't baptized, you can't “dissociate” yourself, which is essentially disfellowshipping yourself.
Why does the Proclaimers book stumble you? Is it the things they left out?
Quote (all translations are biased btw including the NWT) etc. I could get baptized as a JW right now
Say to them: 'The NWT is biased and I'd like to be baptized.' Won't happen.Quote This is the one question JW's don't know nor never thought of. I believe this is the Ace if anyone wants to challenge JW's. I absolutely assure you, this is not “the” ace. Perhaps you could point out why you think this is “the” ace for challenging JW's.
One thing we are told when we don't know the answer to something is, we just have to “wait on Jehovah.” That's what they would say. They would say there is no point on speculating on things we have no way of knowing. I'm just not sure how you think this would ever stumble anyone. Could you please explain?Quote (david @ May 26 2011,11:36) If you aren't baptized, you can't “dissociate” yourself, which is essentially disfellowshipping yourself. Why does the Proclaimers book stumble you? Is it the things they left out?
Quote (all translations are biased btw including the NWT) etc. I could get baptized as a JW right now
Say to them: 'The NWT is biased and I'd like to be baptized.' Won't happen.
1. You can actually disassociate yourself(which I won't do) it's just not as serious if you do it after baptism.2. It's the candor and honesty of the proclaimers book that stumbles me(i'll talk more about it one on one with you).
3. That's why I won't tell them, i'm not saying they did it intentionally but a lot of bible words have more then one meaning for example the same greek and hebrew words are used for angel and messenger. You can say they determine the word they use by context but it's still biased.
Quote 1. You can actually disassociate yourself(which I won't do) it's just not as serious if you do it after baptism. If you aren't baptized, it's not considered “disassociation,” although that is, in effect what it is. No consequences at all. You can come back the second you want to.
Actual “disassociation” of a baptized person is equivalent to disfellowshipping. It's just your choice, that's all. The consequences and treatment are the same as disfellowshipping.Quote 2. It's the candor and honesty of the proclaimers book that stumbles me(i'll talk more about it one on one with you).
So, it's the honesty that stumbles you?
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