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Quote (igorwulff @ Feb. 15 2010,15:11) Either God is saying that Yeshua is the greatest of Creation (which excludes YHWH, because he isn't created)…
IgorJesus is also excluded from creation…
All things came into being through Him, and “**APART FROM HIM NOTHING CAME INTO BEING** that has come into being. John 1:3
Blessings WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 16 2010,08:19) Quote (igorwulff @ Feb. 15 2010,15:11) Either God is saying that Yeshua is the greatest of Creation (which excludes YHWH, because he isn't created)…
IgorJesus is also excluded from creation…
All things came into being through Him, and “**APART FROM HIM NOTHING CAME INTO BEING** that has come into being. John 1:3
Blessings WJ
firstborn of creation, beginning of the creation of God.
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
that we mag know HIM… The Son of God has given/gives us understanding and let us know who the Father is:
Quote John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sentthat we may know HIM that is true… clearly John is revering to the God of Jesus.
Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 16 2010,08:09) Quote (igorwulff @ Feb. 16 2010,07:05) TT, Quote houtos 1) this, these, etc.
Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 356
AV — this 157, these 59, he 31, the same 28, this man 25, she 12, they 10, misc 34
“This (Jesus Christ) is the true God and eternal life.” So what's your point?thinker
Well it shows that a different interpretation is more likely.
Quote (igorwulff @ Feb. 16 2010,07:11) Well at this moment I'm thinking of two things, Thinker, Either God is saying that Yeshua is the greatest of Creation (which excludes YHWH, because he isn't created)… or the vers is mistranslated and should be, will require a bit of further studying.
God is your throne forever and ever
It says nothing about the Son being the greatest of creation. Verse 10 says that the Father attributes creation to the Son.And your “God is your throne” mistranslation has no validity in grammar. It has no validity in context either. The whole passage is about the excellence of the Son.
thinker
Quote (igorwulff @ Feb. 16 2010,07:30) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 16 2010,08:09) Quote (igorwulff @ Feb. 16 2010,07:05) TT, Quote houtos 1) this, these, etc.
Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 356
AV — this 157, these 59, he 31, the same 28, this man 25, she 12, they 10, misc 34
“This (Jesus Christ) is the true God and eternal life.” So what's your point?thinker
Well it shows that a different interpretation is more likely.
How? In chapter one it is Christ who is identified as “that ETERNAL LIFE.” The book ends the same way it opens by identifying Jesus Christ as “the ETERNAL LIFE.”“THIS (Jesus Christ ) is the true God and ETERNAL LIFE.”
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 16 2010,08:47)
And your “God is your throne” mistranslation has no validity in grammar. It has no validity in context either. The whole passage is about the excellence of the Son.thinker
About the grammer.. I'm looking into it.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 16 2010,07:19) Quote (igorwulff @ Feb. 15 2010,15:11) Either God is saying that Yeshua is the greatest of Creation (which excludes YHWH, because he isn't created)…
IgorJesus is also excluded from creation…
All things came into being through Him, and “**APART FROM HIM NOTHING CAME INTO BEING** that has come into being. John 1:3
Blessings WJ
Keith,Exactly! Nothing came into being without the Word (Jesus). So Jesus could not have been created.
thinker
Quote (igorwulff @ Feb. 16 2010,07:51) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 16 2010,08:47)
And your “God is your throne” mistranslation has no validity in grammar. It has no validity in context either. The whole passage is about the excellence of the Son.thinker
About the grammer.. I'm looking into it.
Don't forget context as well. The scriptures preceding and following verse 8 are about the excellence of the Son. The “God is your throne” explanation would be an interruption in the thought.Please post your Greek credentials.
thinker
Hmm.. wel lets see
1 John 4:7
Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him.1 John 5:11
And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.So it is the God of Yeshua who gives us eternal life through/in his Son. I think my interpretation of “this is the True God and eternal life” are right.
Quote (igorwulff @ Feb. 15 2010,15:28) And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. that we mag know HIM… The Son of God has given/gives us understanding and let us know who the Father is:
Quote John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sentthat we may know HIM that is true… clearly John is revering to the God of Jesus.
IgorDid you purposly ignore that Knowing Jesus in John 17:3 is also a prerequisite to Eternal life?
Blessings WJ
No I didn't, WJ.
Quote 1 John 5:11
And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.Quote (igorwulff @ Feb. 16 2010,08:04) Hmm.. wel lets see 1 John 4:7
Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him.1 John 5:11
And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.So it is the God of Yeshua who gives us eternal life through/in his Son. I think my interpretation of “this is the True God and eternal life” are right.
Exactly! Jesus Christ is “that eternal life.” What else could “this life is in His Son” mean?Back to 1 John 5:20 it says, “THIS is the true God and eternal life.” The noun “Jesus Christ” is the antecedent of “this.”
K-I-S-S Keep- It- Simple –
thinker
Hi TT,
Ask John.
He said in 1 Jn5 that God has given us eternal life and that life is in His Son.Is this too simple for you?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 16 2010,08:08) Hi WJ,
The life is in the Son.
The Son of Man was made the source of life for men by his God.
Exactly! That's why Jesus is called “that eternal life.” The life is IN His Son!“THIS (Jesus Christ) is the true God and eternal life.”
You muddy the waters.
thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 16 2010,08:38) Hi TT,
Ask John.
He said in 1 Jn5 that God has given us eternal life and that life is in His Son.Is this too simple for you?
Exactly! The life is IN His Son!So what's your problem?
thinker
Hi TT,
The Spirit of the living God indwelled Jesus and he is the fountain for that eternal life for men.
Jn7Come to him as talking about theoretical stuff just makes you a philosopher.
You can know the God of jesus but you cannot know a committee god.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 16 2010,08:41) Hi TT,
The Spirit of the living God indwelled Jesus and he is the fountain for that eternal life for men.
Jn7Come to him as talking about theoretical stuff just makes you a philosopher.
You can know the God of jesus but you cannot know a committee god.
Sorry to disappoint you Nick but Jesus has life IN HIMSELF (John 5:26).Explain why John said that the life is “In His Son.” Shouldn't John have said that the life is “In the Spirit?”
And why did John say he was writing that they might believe in the name of the SON OF GOD? Shouldn't John have written that we might believe in the name of the Spirit?
And why did John say that if we ask the Son of God for anything that is according to HIS will HE hears us and gives it to us? Shouldn't John have taught us to pray to the Spirit?
And why do you misapply John 7 where Jesus was talking about the Spirit being given to believers? He said nothing about the Spirit being His source of life.
thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 15 2010,16:41) Hi TT,
The Spirit of the living God indwelled Jesus and he is the fountain for that eternal life for men.
Jn7Come to him as talking about theoretical stuff just makes you a philosopher.
You can know the God of jesus but you cannot know a committee god.
You can know God only by knowing Jesus who is God, “one with the Father and the Holy Spirit”!WJ
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