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TT
verse 2: “Our God and Savior Jesus Christ”
verse 11: “Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”
common you know better ,this is not;;Our Lord our Savior Jesus Christ” what is with you TT
twisting again the words the meaningwake up,:
Quote (igorwulff @ Feb. 16 2010,05:19) haha TT 
I guess i think differently towards the word 'god'? When humans and angels can be called gods in a non-negative way and it is shown by scripture that it's meaning is of someone with authority/power/etc.. then I don't see a problem when Yeshua is called god/powerful?
Anti-trinitarians argue that if the definite article “the” appears before the word “God,” then it is God Almighty that is in view.In Hebrews 1:8 the Father addressed His Son as “O [the] God.”
Therefore, by anti-trinitarian grammar the Father addressed His Son as God Almighty.
Check mate!
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 15 2010,13:25) igor said: Quote 2 Peter 1:1-2 (KJV)
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
I see a distinction between Jesus and God here. It seems that Peter isn't revering to Jesus as God here.Lame! First, the KJV translators were not consistent. Verse 11 says “Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.” Verse 11 is written the exact same way as verse 2 yet the translators just put the word “our” in a different order. But the word “our” may be put in the same order in both verses:
verse 2: “Our God and Savior Jesus Christ”
verse 11: “Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”
thinker
JackSo true! The GSR once again is in play just like in Tit 2:13 and Jude 1:3, 4.
The evidence is so strong!
Blessings WJ
Hi TT,
I just had a quick look.. but didn't see HOTHEOS in Hebrews 1:8.. might be that I looked wrong.
Wasn't Satan also called HOTHEOS of this world? But, in most and almost all cases HOTHEOS is about God Almighty.
WJ
why you do not respond on my quote ??
verse 11: “Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”
common you know better ,this is not;;Our Lord our Savior Jesus Christ” what is with you TT and WJ
twisting again the words the meaningigor said:
Quote 1 John 5:20 (KJV) seems to be about context, he is revering back to John 4 and 5: WOW! SUPER LAME!
Igor skips back over several verses.
In verses 13-15 John said that he wrote his epistle in order that they might believe in the name of the Son of God. He said that we show our confidence in the Son of God by praying to Him expecting that if we ask according to HIS will He will give us what we ask.
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
14 Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. 15 And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him.John CLEARLY said that we show our confidence in the Son of God by praying to HIM according to HIS WILL and expecting that HE will give us what we ask.
Yet Igor wants us to go back to chapter 4 and skip these statements. Uh….Only God can answer our prayers. Ergo….
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 15 2010,13:38) Quote (igorwulff @ Feb. 16 2010,05:19) haha TT I guess i think differently towards the word 'god'? When humans and angels can be called gods in a non-negative way and it is shown by scripture that it's meaning is of someone with authority/power/etc.. then I don't see a problem when Yeshua is called god/powerful?
Anti-trinitarians argue that if the definite article “the” appears before the word “God,” then it is God Almighty that is in view.In Hebrews 1:8 the Father addressed His Son as “O [the] God.”
Therefore, by anti-trinitarian grammar the Father addressed His Son as God Almighty.
Check mate!
thinker
JackAnother problem that igorwulff and others have is there aren't any scriptures anywhere that the Apostles refer to any other being as their God but the Father and Jesus!
This is troublesome for them since scriptures clearly say there are no other gods! According to the anti-trinitarians the Father was an idiot in Heb 1:8, and John was an idiot in John 1:1 and Thomas was an idiot in John 20:28 and and Luke was an idiot in Acts 20:28 and Paul was an idiot in Tit 2:13 and Peter was an idiot in 2 Peter 1:1 and Jude was an idiot in Jude 1:3, 4!
So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that “there is **NO GOD (THEOS) BUT ONE**. For although there may be “so-called gods” in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— 1 Cor 8:4, 5
Blessings WJ
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 15 2010,13:49) WJ why you do not respond on my quote ??
verse 11: “Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”
common you know better ,this is not;;Our Lord our Savior Jesus Christ” what is with you TT and WJ
twisting again the words the meaning
TI just did! You are denying Greek grammar and the correct translation of a text!
WJ
Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 15 2010,13:49) igor said: Quote 1 John 5:20 (KJV) seems to be about context, he is revering back to John 4 and 5: WOW! SUPER LAME!
Igor skips back over several verses.
In verses 13-15 John said that he wrote his epistle in order that thye might believe in the name of the Son of God. he said that we show our confidence in the Son of God by praying to Him expecting that if we ask according to HIS will He will give us what we ask.
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
14 Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. 15 And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him.John CLEARLY said that we show our confidence in the Son of God by praying to HIM according to HIS WILL and expecting that HE will give us what we ask.
Yet Igor wants us to go back to chapter 4 and skip these statements. Uh….Only God can answer our prayers. Ergo….
thinker
JackTrue.
The NET Bible which is a completely new translation of the Bible with 60,932 translators’ notes! It was completed by more than 25 scholars – experts in the original biblical languages – who worked directly from the best currently available Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek texts states this concerning 1 John 5:20…
The pronoun This one (οὗτος, Joutos) refers to a person, but it is far from clear whether it should be understood as a reference (1) to God the Father or (2) to Jesus Christ. R. E. Brown (Epistles of John [AB], 625) comments, “I John, which began with an example of stunning grammatical obscurity in the prologue, continues to the end to offer us examples of unclear grammar.” The nearest previous antecedent is Jesus Christ, immediately preceding, but on some occasions when this has been true the pronoun still refers to God (see 1 John 2:3). The first predicate which follows This one in 5:20, the true God, is a description of God the Father used by Jesus in John 17:3, and was used in the preceding clause of the present verse to refer to God the Father (him who is true). Yet the second predicate of This one in 5:20, eternal life, appears to refer to Jesus, because although the Father possesses “life” (John 5:26, 6:57) just as Jesus does (John 1:4, 6:57, 1 John 5:11), “life” is never predicated of the Father elsewhere, while it is predicated of Jesus in John 11:25 and 14:6 (a self-predication by Jesus). If This one in 5:20 is understood as referring to Jesus, it forms an inclusion with the prologue, which introduced the reader to “the eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us.” Thus it appears best to understand the pronoun This one in 5:20 as a reference to Jesus Christ. The christological affirmation which results is striking, but certainly not beyond the capabilities of the author (see John 1:1 and 20:28): This One [Jesus Christ] is the true God and eternal life.
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us insight to know him who is true, and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. “This one is the true God and eternal life“. 1 John 5:20
Blessings WJ
I'm curious WJ and TT.
Hebrew 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
and other passages clearly distinguish God with Yeshua. How can you even say it is possible that Yeshua has a God above Him, according to your understanding of the word 'god' and your believes in the trinity doctrine?
Also your reply WJ… my view on that passage doesn't seems to be that lame, according to that writer (and he is probably a trinity believer).
Quote (igorwulff @ Feb. 15 2010,13:47) Hi TT, I just had a quick look.. but didn't see HOTHEOS in Hebrews 1:8.. might be that I looked wrong.
Wasn't Satan also called HOTHEOS of this world? But, in most and almost all cases HOTHEOS is about God Almighty.
ISo the Father and the Apostles are Poytheist?
WJ
Quote (igorwulff @ Feb. 16 2010,05:47) Hi TT, I just had a quick look.. but didn't see HOTHEOS in Hebrews 1:8.. might be that I looked wrong.
Wasn't Satan also called HOTHEOS of this world? But, in most and almost all cases HOTHEOS is about God Almighty.
igor,I give the Greek text with the definite article in red bold;
8 πρὸς δὲ τὸν υἱόν, ὁ θρόνος σου, ὁ θεός, εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα τοῦ αἰῶνος, καὶ ἡ ῥάβδος τῆς εὐθύτητος2 ῥάβδος τῆς βασιλείας σου.
The Greek character “ὁ” is the definite article “the.” It appears immediately before “θεός” (God). According to anti-trinitarian “grammar” this means “God Almighty.”
Therefore, by anti-trinitarian grammar the Father called His Son God Almighty.
thinker
Your understanding of the word 'god' is different then mine, WJ. 😉
I look towards the meaning of El, Elohim, etc and Theos to understand what they are actually saying, it seems to me that you and TT aren't doing that?
Even so… Yeshua is only very rarely called god and even then, Yeshua clearly has a God, the same we do.
TT, I shall look into it. 😉 Never heard of anti-trinitarian grammar.
Quote (igorwulff @ Feb. 15 2010,14:02) I'm curious WJ and TT. Hebrew 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
and other passages clearly distinguish God with Yeshua. How can you even say it is possible that Yeshua has a God above Him, according to your understanding of the word 'god' and your believes in the trinity doctrine?
Also your reply WJ… my view on that passage doesn't seems to be that lame, according to that writer (and he is probably a trinity believer).
IgorJesus doesn't have a God above him at this time for all authority and power is in his hands. He is at the right hand of the Father, not above him nor beneath him but at his right hand!
He has not yet subjected himself and the Kingdom back to the Father… 1 Cor 15.
WJ
Well scripture says something different:
Acts 3:13-14
The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.Johannes 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your GodJohn 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sentHebrews 1:9 also clearly shows that Yeshua, has a God above him.
Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Igor said:
Quote Wasn't Satan also called HOTHEOS of this world? But, in most and almost all cases HOTHEOS is about God Almighty. So satan is a true hotheos now?
thinker
Hi TT and WJ,
You are so busy trying to muddy the waters for others to drink you have lost sight of WHO God is.ED, The “Right Hand” is only figurative/symbolic and not literal.
Right hand means power and authority. The term “right hand” is not referring to position or location but the power When Jesus became our final sacrifice, He at the same time being the high priest, forever sat down as God ending all sacrifices. Jesus Christ is at the same time both our sacrifice and our priest. Jesus is Our creator and every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord .
There is Only ONe Lord!! can you call Jesus Lord?katjo
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