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For Dust You Are …
What does the preponderance of evidence show as regards the immortal soul and Hell-Fire Teachings? In order for these teachings to be true, the dead would have to be conscious wherever they are abiding.
We notice in the account of Adams creation, that he was …”formed from the dust of the earth.” Rather than having been given an immortal soul Jehovah blew into his nostrils the breath of life and …”the man came to be a living soul.” So reasonably, Adam was not given an immortal soul, but was himself created a soul with the spirit of God in his nostrils. Adam, at his death, simply returned to the dust of the earth, as Jehovah said he would. He was not told that he would ascend to the heavens, or be tormented forever in a fiery Hell. He would simply return to the dust of the earth. It occured as Jehovah said it would: “For dust you are and to dust you will return.” [Genesis 2:7;3:19] Logically the dust could not be tormented forever in any fiery hot place.
The accountt in Job 27:3 tells us, …While the Spirit of God [breath of life] is in my nostrils ” … So the same Spirit, or life force that animated Adam, also animated Job as well. The breath of life was in the nostrils of both, as it is with all mankind. It is the Spirit of God that perpetuates the life force in all mankind. There exists nothing that can be thrown into Hell as some Bibles translate the word She'ol and this Hebrew word She'ol simply denotes the common grave of all mankind.
It is interesting to notice what is recorded in Ecclesiastes 3: 19,20 which states: “For there is an eventuality as respects the Sons of mankind, and an eventuality as respects the Beast, and they have the same eventualty.. As the one dies so the other dies they all have but one Spirit so that there is no supiority of the man over the Beast.All are going to one place.and they are all returning to the dust.” Now, does this scripture tell us that both man and the animals will be tormented in a fiery Hell? It says, “All have one Spirit. One Spirit, it says, not one soul!”All are going to one place.” Now where again was that place? It said: and they are all returning to the dust.”
We do well,now, to consider closly the account about the daughter of Ja'rius at Luke 8::41-56 his twelve year old daughter had died and Jesus went to bring her back to life. At verses 54,55 we learn this: …”he took her by the hand, and called, saying, “Girl get up.” Now notice this next statement: and her Spirit returned and she rose instantly.” Now does this scripture tell us her Soul returned? No! It does not! The breath of God began to animate her once again when her Spirit returned. Not Soul!.It says her Spirit returned.
Many times throughout the pages of the Bible we read references to the dead 'sleeping in death''[1 thessalonians 4:13 1 Corinthians 11:30 Mark 5:39] But where does it say they are sleeping? Daniel 12:2 helps us to see exactly where they are sleeping, for it says there, this about that: “…and there will be many of those asleep in the ground of dust who will wake up” …But, one might ask, how does this happen to be? John 5:25 explains: “The dead will hear the voice of the Son of God” …[John 5:28,29 Acts 24:15] Up until that point all those resurrected have been unconscious in the grave. As Ecclesiastes 9:5,10 informs us all: …”as for the dead they are conscious of nothing at all” ..After reading that scripture how can anyone believe that man has a Soul, that, at death, is still conscious and can be tormented in a fiery Hell? It very clearly says that the dead are concious of nothing at all!
What more is needed to convince honest-hearted ones that the teaching about man having an immoprtal Soul that can be tormented in a place called Hell after death, that both of these are false teachings.
Surly there is an overwhelming preponderence of scriptural evidences that weighs heavily against these teachings and as we have seen the scriptures show clearly that they are quite definitly false teachings.It is as the Bible says: “If you take away their Spirit they expire and back to their dust they go.” [Psalms 104:29]
It is interesting to note from a scripture in Job 34: 14,15 that Jehovah could if that was to be his desire, wipe out the entire population of this earth in the blink of an eye by simply withdrawing the Spirit and breath from mankind. Thusly worded in Job: “If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath; All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.” No! No immortal soul, merely spirit and breath. “Take away their spirit and breath and back to their dust they go. “For dust you are, and to dust you shall return!”
Hi Texas,
Yes man is of the dust of earth.[Gen2]
But the breath of God that made him a living being is not.[gen2]
That breath gives man soul and a spirit [1thess 5]and the spirit returns to God at death[Ecc12]That leaves the SOUL.
The salvation of that soul is the purpose of God.
Only the Living Spirit can grant us the eternal life promised by God.1 Peter 1:9
Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.Hi Nick Hassan!
Show me one scripture in the Bible that tells us that man was given an immortal soul! Just show me one, and I'll bow to your superior knowledge! TexasFurther to that, the Bible says that man was created a “Living Soul!” It doesn't say that he was given one!
Jehovah has informed us at Genesis 2:7 that he created man from the dust of the earth, and MAN BECAME A LIVING SOUL”!
Do you have the brass to try and argue it out with the one who did the creating? If he said, and he did, “THAT MAN BECAME A LIVING SOUL!” Then that's the way it is! Like it, don't like it, that's the way it is!The Apostle Paul was in full agreeance with this, for at 1 Corinthians 15:45 Paul wrote: “It is even so written: [at Genesis 2:7] The first man Adam BECAME A LIVING SOUL The last Adam became a life giving spirit.” So, you find yourself at odds, not only with Jehovah but also with the Apostle Paul. Maybe though, you know more than both of them put together eh? Texas
Quote (Texas @ April 08 2009,08:03) Hi Nick Hassan!
Show me one scripture in the Bible that tells us that man was given an immortal soul! Just show me one, and I'll bow to your superior knowledge! Texas
Hi texas,
Nowhere does scripture say that the soul is immortal and Mt10.28 tells us it can be destroyed.28`And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.
Dust returns to dust.
The spirit of man returns to God
But salvation of the soul is the hope of men.[1Peter1]The bible is full of references to the soul, especially the Psalms.
Hi texas,
Gen2
7Then the LORD God formed man [BODY]of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living [SPIRIT] being[SOUL].The soul is not the spirit but only the Spirit of the word can discern the difference.
Heb4
12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.Quote (Texas @ April 08 2009,00:10) For Dust You Are … What does the preponderance of evidence show as regards the immortal soul and Hell-Fire Teachings? In order for these teachings to be true, the dead would have to be conscious wherever they are abiding.
We notice in the account of Adams creation, that he was …”formed from the dust of the earth.” Rather than having been given an immortal soul Jehovah blew into his nostrils the breath of life and …”the man came to be a living soul.” So reasonably, Adam was not given an immortal soul, but was himself created a soul with the spirit of God in his nostrils. Adam, at his death, simply returned to the dust of the earth, as Jehovah said he would. He was not told that he would ascend to the heavens, or be tormented forever in a fiery Hell. He would simply return to the dust of the earth. It occured as Jehovah said it would: “For dust you are and to dust you will return.” [Genesis 2:7;3:19] Logically the dust could not be tormented forever in any fiery hot place.
The accountt in Job 27:3 tells us, …While the Spirit of God [breath of life] is in my nostrils ” … So the same Spirit, or life force that animated Adam, also animated Job as well. The breath of life was in the nostrils of both, as it is with all mankind. It is the Spirit of God that perpetuates the life force in all mankind. There exists nothing that can be thrown into Hell as some Bibles translate the word She'ol and this Hebrew word She'ol simply denotes the common grave of all mankind.
It is interesting to notice what is recorded in Ecclesiastes 3: 19,20 which states: “For there is an eventuality as respects the Sons of mankind, and an eventuality as respects the Beast, and they have the same eventualty.. As the one dies so the other dies they all have but one Spirit so that there is no supiority of the man over the Beast.All are going to one place.and they are all returning to the dust.” Now, does this scripture tell us that both man and the animals will be tormented in a fiery Hell? It says, “All have one Spirit. One Spirit, it says, not one soul!”All are going to one place.” Now where again was that place? It said: and they are all returning to the dust.”
We do well,now, to consider closly the account about the daughter of Ja'rius at Luke 8::41-56 his twelve year old daughter had died and Jesus went to bring her back to life. At verses 54,55 we learn this: …”he took her by the hand, and called, saying, “Girl get up.” Now notice this next statement: and her Spirit returned and she rose instantly.” Now does this scripture tell us her Soul returned? No! It does not! The breath of God began to animate her once again when her Spirit returned. Not Soul!.It says her Spirit returned.
Many times throughout the pages of the Bible we read references to the dead 'sleeping in death''[1 thessalonians 4:13 1 Corinthians 11:30 Mark 5:39] But where does it say they are sleeping? Daniel 12:2 helps us to see exactly where they are sleeping, for it says there, this about that: “…and there will be many of those asleep in the ground of dust who will wake up” …But, one might ask, how does this happen to be? John 5:25 explains: “The dead will hear the voice of the Son of God” …[John 5:28,29 Acts 24:15] Up until that point all those resurrected have been unconscious in the grave. As Ecclesiastes 9:5,10 informs us all: …”as for the dead they are conscious of nothing at all” ..After reading that scripture how can anyone believe that man has a Soul, that, at death, is still conscious and can be tormented in a fiery Hell? It very clearly says that the dead are concious of nothing at all!
What more is needed to convince honest-hearted ones that the teaching about man having an immoprtal Soul that can be tormented in a place called Hell after death, that both of these are false teachings.
Surly there is an overwhelming preponderence of scriptural evidences that weighs heavily against these teachings and as we have seen the scriptures show clearly that they are quite definitly false teachings.It is as the Bible says: “If you take away their Spirit they expire and back to their dust they go.” [Psalms 104:29]
It is interesting to note from a scripture in Job 34: 14,15 that Jehovah could if that was to be his desire, wipe out the entire population of this earth in the blink of an eye by simply withdrawing the Spirit and breath from mankind. Thusly worded in Job: “If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath; All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.” No! No immortal soul, merely spirit and breath. “Take away their spirit and breath and back to their dust they go. “For dust you are, and to dust you shall return!”
TexasMaybe you could with your superior knowledge give us your exegesis on the parable of the rich man and lazarus?
WJ
WJ
That's the point, and you said it yourself! It was a parable, saying one thing, but having an entirely different meaning than what was actually spoken. If you don't understand the parables that Jesus gave, maybe it's because your not granted to understand them! That of course will be your problem, not mine! [Matthew 13:10-15] TexasHi Texas,
No other parable gives personal names to those involved.
Jesus did not use common lies to teach us by.
He is the way, the truth and the life1 Peter 2:22
Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:Quote Maybe you could with your superior knowledge give us your exegesis on the parable of the rich man and lazarus? By what Jesus said about the rich man and Lazarus, did Jesus teach torment of the wicked after death?
Is the account, at Luke 16:19-31, literal or merely an illustration of something else? The Jerusalem Bible, in a footnote, acknowledges that it is a “parable in story form without reference to any historical personage.”
If taken literally, it would mean that those enjoying divine favor could all fit at the bosom of one man, Abraham; that the water on one’s fingertip would not be evaporated by the fire of Hades; that a mere drop of water would bring relief to one suffering there.
Does that sound reasonable to you?
If it were literal, it would conflict with other parts of the Bible. If the Bible were thus contradictory, would a lover of truth use it as a basis for his faith?
But the Bible does not contradict itself.What does the parable mean? The “rich man” represented the Pharisees. (See verse 14.) The beggar Lazarus represented the common Jewish people who were despised by the Pharisees but who repented and became followers of Jesus. (See Luke 18:11; John 7:49; Matthew 21:31, 32.) Their deaths were also symbolic, representing a change in circumstances. Thus, the formerly despised ones came into a position of divine favor, and the formerly seemingly favored ones were rejected by God, while being tormented by the judgment messages delivered by the ones whom they had despised.—Acts 5:33; 7:54.
The fire is no more literal than Abraham’s bosom. (Luke 16:22-24)ABRAHAM and Mat 22:31 and John 8:56
MATTHEW 22:31-32
“As regards the resurrection of the dead, did YOU not read what was spoken to YOU by God, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob’? He is the God, not of the dead, but of the living.””He counted those men as alive because of the resurrection that He, “the God, not of the dead, but of the living,” purposed to give them.
God, because of his power, “makes the dead alive AND CALLS THE THINGS THAT ARE NOT AS THOUGH THEY ARE.” Paul includes this fact when speaking of Abraham’s faith.—Mt 22:23, 31-33; Ro 4:17.Many times in scripture, Jehovah speaks as though something is already done, even the event described is in the future. This is because for Jehovah, it is an absolute certainty. It is as good as done. Of course, these ones would come back to life. In fact, to God, it was as good as done. Time is different for him. A thousand years, a day for us, etc.
Remember too that Jehovah's memory is perfect.
Even though Abraham was dead, Jehovah “makes the dead alive AND CALLS THE THINGS THAT ARE NOT AS THOUGH THEY ARE.”JOHN 8:56
“Abraham YOUR father rejoiced greatly in the prospect of seeing my day, and he saw it and rejoiced.””
Speaking of Abraham and others, Heb 11:13 says:
“In faith all these [including Abraham] died, although they did not get the [fulfillment of the] promises, but THEY SAW THEM AFAR OFF and welcomed them and publicly declared that they were strangers and temporary residents in the land.”
So Hebrew 11:13 says something very similar to John 8, in speaking of Abraham, but it clarifies, it sets things straight. (2 Tim 3:16)OTHER SCRIPTURES THAT DISAGREE WITH RICH MAN AND LAZARUS BEING LITERAL STORY.
If we are told a hundred times that something is so in the Bible,
and we come upon a story that Jesus gave which may or may not be an illustration or parable, knowing that Jesus spoke a great great deal in illustrations,
and this story that we're considering if taken literally and not as an illustration contradicts those other hundred scriptures, which all have the same weight as this story,
what do we do?Do we cling to the one and abondon the other hundred scriptures?
Or do we look at it as one of the many other illustrations that Jesus gave?Hi David,
Do you have any real evidence this scripture is a lie or does it sit uncomfortably with your dogmas?Nick, do you have any evidence that the rest of the Bible is a lie?
Nick, why do you assert the rest of the Bible is wrong?
Nick, why do you think God is trying to mislead us with those other hundreds of scriptures?
Nick, where is your evidence that the rest of the Bible is wrong?
Quote (Texas @ April 08 2009,08:03) Hi Nick Hassan!
Show me one scripture in the Bible that tells us that man was given an immortal soul! Just show me one, and I'll bow to your superior knowledge! Texas
Thank you Texas, for taking over.Georg
Quote (david @ April 09 2009,12:29) Quote Maybe you could with your superior knowledge give us your exegesis on the parable of the rich man and lazarus? By what Jesus said about the rich man and Lazarus, did Jesus teach torment of the wicked after death?
Is the account, at Luke 16:19-31, literal or merely an illustration of something else? The Jerusalem Bible, in a footnote, acknowledges that it is a “parable in story form without reference to any historical personage.”
If taken literally, it would mean that those enjoying divine favor could all fit at the bosom of one man, Abraham; that the water on one’s fingertip would not be evaporated by the fire of Hades; that a mere drop of water would bring relief to one suffering there.
Does that sound reasonable to you?
If it were literal, it would conflict with other parts of the Bible. If the Bible were thus contradictory, would a lover of truth use it as a basis for his faith?
But the Bible does not contradict itself.What does the parable mean? The “rich man” represented the Pharisees. (See verse 14.) The beggar Lazarus represented the common Jewish people who were despised by the Pharisees but who repented and became followers of Jesus. (See Luke 18:11; John 7:49; Matthew 21:31, 32.) Their deaths were also symbolic, representing a change in circumstances. Thus, the formerly despised ones came into a position of divine favor, and the formerly seemingly favored ones were rejected by God, while being tormented by the judgment messages delivered by the ones whom they had despised.—Acts 5:33; 7:54.
The fire is no more literal than Abraham’s bosom. (Luke 16:22-24)ABRAHAM and Mat 22:31 and John 8:56
MATTHEW 22:31-32
“As regards the resurrection of the dead, did YOU not read what was spoken to YOU by God, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob’? He is the God, not of the dead, but of the living.””He counted those men as alive because of the resurrection that He, “the God, not of the dead, but of the living,” purposed to give them.
God, because of his power, “makes the dead alive AND CALLS THE THINGS THAT ARE NOT AS THOUGH THEY ARE.” Paul includes this fact when speaking of Abraham’s faith.—Mt 22:23, 31-33; Ro 4:17.Many times in scripture, Jehovah speaks as though something is already done, even the event described is in the future. This is because for Jehovah, it is an absolute certainty. It is as good as done. Of course, these ones would come back to life. In fact, to God, it was as good as done. Time is different for him. A thousand years, a day for us, etc.
Remember too that Jehovah's memory is perfect.
Even though Abraham was dead, Jehovah “makes the dead alive AND CALLS THE THINGS THAT ARE NOT AS THOUGH THEY ARE.”JOHN 8:56
“Abraham YOUR father rejoiced greatly in the prospect of seeing my day, and he saw it and rejoiced.””
Speaking of Abraham and others, Heb 11:13 says:
“In faith all these [including Abraham] died, although they did not get the [fulfillment of the] promises, but THEY SAW THEM AFAR OFF and welcomed them and publicly declared that they were strangers and temporary residents in the land.”
So Hebrew 11:13 says something very similar to John 8, in speaking of Abraham, but it clarifies, it sets things straight. (2 Tim 3:16)OTHER SCRIPTURES THAT DISAGREE WITH RICH MAN AND LAZARUS BEING LITERAL STORY.
If we are told a hundred times that something is so in the Bible,
and we come upon a story that Jesus gave which may or may not be an illustration or parable, knowing that Jesus spoke a great great deal in illustrations,
and this story that we're considering if taken literally and not as an illustration contradicts those other hundred scriptures, which all have the same weight as this story,
what do we do?Do we cling to the one and abondon the other hundred scriptures?
Or do we look at it as one of the many other illustrations that Jesus gave?
Hi DavidOppologetics at its best.
I do not have the energy nor the time nor the desire to go into the false teachings of soul sleep that the JWs teach.
If you would like thoough I can post all kinds of sights “quickly” that prove your theorys false! Just thought I would spare you and not go after the Watchtower again.
WJ
Quote (Texas @ April 08 2009,08:03) Hi Nick Hassan!
Show me one scripture in the Bible that tells us that man was given an immortal soul! Just show me one, and I'll bow to your superior knowledge! Texas
Hi TexasAnd “whosoever liveth” and believeth in me “SHALL NEVER DIE”. Believest thou this? John 11:26
WJ
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