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Hi Bod
Do you look for the Mahdi to come, if the Mahdi or a Muslim Jesus came and told all Musilms to kill nonbelievers would you do you think? Would you choose your religeon or follow your own beliefs?
Quote (bodhitharta @ May 20 2010,06:28) Quote (Stu @ May 19 2010,16:48) I would believe BD is not familiar with Hamas and Hezbollah. Stuart
I really am not except for what news stories I hear, do you know much beyond what the news media report?
Not that much more. I like to think I have some idea about what these islamic terrorist organisations have in mind regarding Israel, and also about the murderous belligerence Israel shows in response. I think I might feel a little belligerent too if neighbouring nations' religious book said about me the kinds of things the islamic mythological writing says about Jews.Stuart
I personally love Humas. I use it almost like mayonaise. (I make my own.)
(Since I'm not sure who Hamas is, I thought I'd change the subject.)
Quote (karmarie @ May 20 2010,10:49) Hi Bod Do you look for the Mahdi to come, if the Mahdi or a Muslim Jesus came and told all Musilms to kill nonbelievers would you do you think? Would you choose your religeon or follow your own beliefs?
Until you actually read the Quran youwill continue to make ignorant statements.Quote (bodhitharta @ May 20 2010,17:41) Until you actually read the Quran youwill continue to make ignorant statements.
Yeah im sorry about the hard question, I was just thinking.Quote (bodhitharta @ May 20 2010,17:41) Quote (karmarie @ May 20 2010,10:49) Hi Bod Do you look for the Mahdi to come, if the Mahdi or a Muslim Jesus came and told all Musilms to kill nonbelievers would you do you think? Would you choose your religeon or follow your own beliefs?
Until you actually read the Quran youwill continue to make ignorant statements.
Muslims would say exactly the same thing about you in regard to the Hadiths.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ May 20 2010,19:08) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 20 2010,17:41) Quote (karmarie @ May 20 2010,10:49) Hi Bod Do you look for the Mahdi to come, if the Mahdi or a Muslim Jesus came and told all Musilms to kill nonbelievers would you do you think? Would you choose your religeon or follow your own beliefs?
Until you actually read the Quran youwill continue to make ignorant statements.
Muslims would say exactly the same thing about you in regard to the Hadiths.Stuart
actually, no they don't. Hadiths are not required Muslim fareQuote (bodhitharta @ May 21 2010,06:48) Quote (Stu @ May 20 2010,19:08) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 20 2010,17:41) Quote (karmarie @ May 20 2010,10:49) Hi Bod Do you look for the Mahdi to come, if the Mahdi or a Muslim Jesus came and told all Musilms to kill nonbelievers would you do you think? Would you choose your religeon or follow your own beliefs?
Until you actually read the Quran youwill continue to make ignorant statements.
Muslims would say exactly the same thing about you in regard to the Hadiths.Stuart
actually, no they don't. Hadiths are not required Muslim fare
It is still true that muslims would say that about you.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ May 21 2010,17:24) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 21 2010,06:48) Quote (Stu @ May 20 2010,19:08) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 20 2010,17:41) Quote (karmarie @ May 20 2010,10:49) Hi Bod Do you look for the Mahdi to come, if the Mahdi or a Muslim Jesus came and told all Musilms to kill nonbelievers would you do you think? Would you choose your religeon or follow your own beliefs?
Until you actually read the Quran youwill continue to make ignorant statements.
Muslims would say exactly the same thing about you in regard to the Hadiths.Stuart
actually, no they don't. Hadiths are not required Muslim fare
It is still true that muslims would say that about you.Stuart
No, they actually wouldn't. No Muslim anywhere would try to debate anything in a Hadith over what is written in the Quran.They not knowing what is in the Quran themselves may initiate a view that is incorrect but once you show them in The Quran the truth they will ask for forgiveness from ALLAH and comply.
Quote (bodhitharta @ May 22 2010,01:35) Quote (Stu @ May 21 2010,17:24) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 21 2010,06:48) Quote (Stu @ May 20 2010,19:08) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 20 2010,17:41) Quote (karmarie @ May 20 2010,10:49) Hi Bod Do you look for the Mahdi to come, if the Mahdi or a Muslim Jesus came and told all Musilms to kill nonbelievers would you do you think? Would you choose your religeon or follow your own beliefs?
Until you actually read the Quran youwill continue to make ignorant statements.
Muslims would say exactly the same thing about you in regard to the Hadiths.Stuart
actually, no they don't. Hadiths are not required Muslim fare
It is still true that muslims would say that about you.Stuart
No, they actually wouldn't. No Muslim anywhere would try to debate anything in a Hadith over what is written in the Quran.They not knowing what is in the Quran themselves may initiate a view that is incorrect but once you show them in The Quran the truth they will ask for forgiveness from ALLAH and comply.
The Holy Wikipedia has this:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith#Use
The overwhelming majority of Muslims consider hadith to be essential supplements to and clarifications of the Qur'an
So when you said “until you actually read the Quran youwill continue to make ignorant statements” is it equally the case that the “overwhelming majority of Muslims” would also consider you not to have the complete picture without the hadith, and thus liable to make ignorant statements. Otherwise they would be happy without the hadith, which clearly they are not, especially in respect of sharia law and violent jihad.
Is it you who is the real muslim or they?
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ May 22 2010,06:51) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 22 2010,01:35) Quote (Stu @ May 21 2010,17:24) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 21 2010,06:48) Quote (Stu @ May 20 2010,19:08) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 20 2010,17:41) Quote (karmarie @ May 20 2010,10:49) Hi Bod Do you look for the Mahdi to come, if the Mahdi or a Muslim Jesus came and told all Musilms to kill nonbelievers would you do you think? Would you choose your religeon or follow your own beliefs?
Until you actually read the Quran youwill continue to make ignorant statements.
Muslims would say exactly the same thing about you in regard to the Hadiths.Stuart
actually, no they don't. Hadiths are not required Muslim fare
It is still true that muslims would say that about you.Stuart
No, they actually wouldn't. No Muslim anywhere would try to debate anything in a Hadith over what is written in the Quran.They not knowing what is in the Quran themselves may initiate a view that is incorrect but once you show them in The Quran the truth they will ask for forgiveness from ALLAH and comply.
The Holy Wikipedia has this:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith#Use
The overwhelming majority of Muslims consider hadith to be essential supplements to and clarifications of the Qur'an
So when you said “until you actually read the Quran youwill continue to make ignorant statements” is it equally the case that the “overwhelming majority of Muslims” would also consider you not to have the complete picture without the hadith, and thus liable to make ignorant statements. Otherwise they would be happy without the hadith, which clearly they are not, especially in respect of sharia law and violent jihad.
Is it you who is the real muslim or they?
Stuart
The Primary text is always superior and precedent over any supplementary works.No Muslim considers the Hadiths as superior or even remotely equivalent to The Quran nor does the Quran highlight or point to any neccesary supplement. In-fact The Quran says:
” This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.”
In the Quran the older scriptures are sanctioned for study but the final authority is The Quran any and every Muslim MUST AGREE WITH ME
Quote (Stu @ May 22 2010,12:43) OK. Thought so. The majority of muslims aren't really muslims. Stuart
That should be no surprise to you because the majority in every field are not really representative of the Ideal.Most Atheists are not really atheists
Most Christians are not really christians
Most Politicians are not Ideal politicians
Most capitalists are not ideal capitalistsI have made this statement to you before.
It's like Karmarie wanting to reject the reality of Hell
Thethinker rejecting the reality of Judaism
you get the ideaQuote (Stu @ May 22 2010,22:25) I get the idea. You are special and the others are wrong. Stuart
Actually it's these attempts to be special that makes a person wrong.For instance you can have Christians who say that the Laws of the Jew has been nailed to the cross but we need only follow the ten commandments
Well being a Homosexual is not on that list but they make it a greater sin than everything else on the list except perhaps Murder.
This means they take “special” exception to the lifestyle of homosexuality.
isn't that wrong?
So because you ignore a set of islamic writings that have critical importance for the vast majority of muslims, you have a better understanding of both islam and christianity.
Like I said, they won't see it that way.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ May 23 2010,10:42) So because you ignore a set of islamic writings that have critical importance for the vast majority of muslims, you have a better understanding of both islam and christianity. Like I said, they won't see it that way.
Stuart
The Hadiths are not critically important to most Muslims they are simply accepted readings regarding Islam not even all Hadiths are accepted at all:Now here is one clear point:
Child marriage in Islam is justified on the basis of a hadith in Bukhari which says that the Prophet married Hazrath Aisha when she was just six and consummated the marriage when she was nine.
This hadith cannot be true for several reasons. First, the Prophet could not have gone against the Quran to marry a physically and intellectually immature child. Secondly, the age of Hazrat Aisha can be easily calculated from the age of her elder sister Hazrat Asma who was 10 years older than Hazrat Aisha. Waliuddin Muhammad Abdullah Al-Khateeb al Amri Tabrizi the famous author of Mishkath, in his biography of narrators (Asma ur Rijal), writes that Hazrat Asma died in the year 73 Hijri at the age of 100, ten or twelve days after the martyrdom of her son Abdullah Ibn Zubair. It is common knowledge that the Islamic calendar starts from the year of the Hijrah or the Prophet’s migration from Mecca to Medina. Therefore, by deducting 73, the year of Hazrat Asma’s death, from 100, her age at that time, we can easily conclude that she was 27-years old during Hijra. This puts the age of Hazrat Aisha at 17 during the same period. As all biographers of the Prophet agree that he consummated his marriage with Hazrat Aisha in the year 2 Hijri it can be conclusively said that she was 19 at that time and not 9 as alleged in the aforementioned hadith.
http://talkislam.info/tag/hadiths/
The fact is Hadiths are like hear say some might have been said and some may have not been said or not said the way it is reported.
Quote (bodhitharta @ May 23 2010,11:44) Quote (Stu @ May 23 2010,10:42) So because you ignore a set of islamic writings that have critical importance for the vast majority of muslims, you have a better understanding of both islam and christianity. Like I said, they won't see it that way.
Stuart
The Hadiths are not critically important to most Muslims they are simply accepted readings regarding Islam not even all Hadiths are accepted at all:Now here is one clear point:
Child marriage in Islam is justified on the basis of a hadith in Bukhari which says that the Prophet married Hazrath Aisha when she was just six and consummated the marriage when she was nine.
This hadith cannot be true for several reasons. First, the Prophet could not have gone against the Quran to marry a physically and intellectually immature child. Secondly, the age of Hazrat Aisha can be easily calculated from the age of her elder sister Hazrat Asma who was 10 years older than Hazrat Aisha. Waliuddin Muhammad Abdullah Al-Khateeb al Amri Tabrizi the famous author of Mishkath, in his biography of narrators (Asma ur Rijal), writes that Hazrat Asma died in the year 73 Hijri at the age of 100, ten or twelve days after the martyrdom of her son Abdullah Ibn Zubair. It is common knowledge that the Islamic calendar starts from the year of the Hijrah or the Prophet’s migration from Mecca to Medina. Therefore, by deducting 73, the year of Hazrat Asma’s death, from 100, her age at that time, we can easily conclude that she was 27-years old during Hijra. This puts the age of Hazrat Aisha at 17 during the same period. As all biographers of the Prophet agree that he consummated his marriage with Hazrat Aisha in the year 2 Hijri it can be conclusively said that she was 19 at that time and not 9 as alleged in the aforementioned hadith.
http://talkislam.info/tag/hadiths/
The fact is Hadiths are like hear say some might have been said and some may have not been said or not said the way it is reported.
You never posted that when we discussed the pedophilia of Mohammad earlier on.I think it is a crock of lies.
Stuart
Stu, there are some things you don't get. And being that you're an intelligent person, I don't understand why you can't “get” them.
People will not change their opinion on the books they love because you attack them. That only makes them cling more strongly to their beliefs.
Instead of attacking the Bible or other books, you should really try to make evolution simple and understandable. Start with artificial selection, as Darwin did. Start with the dogs and the flowers. Baby step it.
You can't destroy someone's belief system without replacing it with something else. Go over the actual evidence. Use logic. Use simple language. Instead of arguing over things that cannot really be proven for certain one way or the other, create arguments based on actual facts.
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