First born of creation

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Gal 4
” 3Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:

4But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

6And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

7Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

So the son was in existence when the Father chose to send him forth [from heaven].
That son was given flesh through God and Mary to be exactly in our situation.

[Not3in1]

it seems according to Phil 2 that it was a deliberate choice to obey.
*****************

Nick, “….it seems…..” is not a very firm foundation to build on. I encourage you to have many passages that would seem to say the same thing before I claim this teaching. It “seems” to me that you are left guessing here; making presumptions, even. If it is not clearly taught in scripture, I have a hard time embracing it.

I was watching the Passion this evening, and in Jesus' own words he said to Pilate, “….I was born, and then came into the world….” He didn't say anything about choosing to come, or volunteering for the position. He didn't say anything about being “alive” in anyway prior to his being “born.” This teaching is just not in scripture. It is only there if you want it to be there, and that, by deduction only, I'm afraid. Thanks for having this talk with me, Nick. As I have said before, I respect you, and I have learned a lot from you.

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
Then why not offer your understanding of phil 2?

[Not3in1]

I do not believe Philippians 2 is talking about a pre-existence. So in that regard, there is nothing for me to offer.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (chosenone @ April 02 2007,18:57)

WorshipingJesus.       Thanks for the repy, I totally agree with your statement “We must be led by the Spirit and the Spirit will guide us into all truth.”   Thanks for the debating this subject, I'll look forward to seeing yours and others comments in “Heaven Net”.     Blessings.

Chosenone

No problem. It has been a pleasure speaking with you.

You have a good spirit.

Blessings

[Adam Pastor]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 03 2007,05:20)

… Then why not offer your understanding of phil 2?

Greetings Nick
Have a read of this …
http://www.mindspring.com/~anthonybuzzard/philippians.htm

[Is 1:18]

Quote (Not3in1 @ April 03 2007,05:52)

I do not believe Philippians 2 is talking about a pre-existence.  So in that regard, there is nothing for me to offer.

What is it speaking about then? I, for one, would like to read your exegesis Not3in1…

[Phoenix]

Quote (Adam Pastor @ April 03 2007,20:35)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 03 2007,05:20) … Then why not offer your understanding of phil 2? Greetings Nick Have a read of this … http://www.mindspring.com/~anthonybuzzard/philippians.htm

Wow thank you for that site AP. Was wonderfully interesting and confirms what I was thinking anyway. As well as taught me some more.

Hugs
Phoenix

[NickHassan]

Quote (Adam Pastor @ April 03 2007,09:35)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 03 2007,05:20) … Then why not offer your understanding of phil 2? Greetings Nick Have a read of this … http://www.mindspring.com/~anthonybuzzard/philippians.htm

Hi AP,
The Biblical Unitarian view is that Christ is only a flesh \spirit man and all of their expositions are designed to come back to this conclusion.

[Not3in1]

Nick wrote:

Hi AP,
The Biblical Unitarian view is that Christ is only a flesh \spirit man and all of their expositions are designed to come back to this conclusion.

*********************************

What type of Unitarian are you, Nick? That is, if you consider yourself to be a Unitarian (versus a Trinitarian, per se).

Isaiah – If you are truly interested in my view of the Philippians passage – take a moment to review the web site that Adam Pastor posted. For the most part, I consider myself a biblical Unitarian (although I do not like to be associated with denominations any more). I meet with a body of Christ for fellowship in various living rooms.

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
Do we need political labels?
Is christian not enough?
When we find ourselves afloat in the river of the Spirit we should not be searching for some denominational boat to rescue us.

[Not3in1]

Nick – I agree wholeheartedly with you. I was just curious about you, and wondered if you did belong to any set group. You answered the question beautifully. Thanks.

[chosenone]

Concordant explanation of Phil.2:6…Form denotes appearance, as is shown by Pauls use of it in the contrast, “having a form of devoutness, yet denying its power. (2Ti.3:5) We have found it impossible to sustain the power that it refers to intrinsic essence. Figure or fashion denotes the form prevailing at any time. Christ was the image of God, the visable representation of the Deity. Paul himself saw Him on the Damascus road in celestial glory. yet the form in verse 6 was laid aside for that of a slave, at His incarnation.
Adam and his progeny seek to exalt themselves and will be humbled. But Christ who may easily assume the place of equality with God, found His delight in humility and humiliation.
The ending -mos of the word for pillaging, denotes the act, not the object of pillage. When He was in the form of God His glory was to bright to be gazed upon by men.
The apostle John presents Him as the audible Word. But Paul shows Him as visable image of the Diety, too bright for mortal gaze and seen only by our spiritual perception. As such He is seen in this epistle.

Blessings.

[TimothyVI]

Quote (Not3in1 @ April 04 2007,03:49)

For the most part, I consider myself a biblical Unitarian (although I do not like to be associated with denominations any more).  I meet with a body of Christ for fellowship in various living rooms.

Hi Not3in1,

Tha is exactly how I feel. My pastor is always saying you are like this denomination, or that demonination whenever I say I believe in something that differs from what he preaches.

The fact is that I may believe some of what each denomination teaches, but then totally disagree with some other aspect of their teaching. So I am not fully any denomination. I just call myself a follower of Christ.

I think it is absurd that we have some 340 denominations withinin a church that was warned by Paul to not be divisive.

Tim

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (TimothyVI @ April 04 2007,11:04)

Quote (Not3in1 @ April 04 2007,03:49)  For the most part, I consider myself a biblical Unitarian (although I do not like to be associated with denominations any more).  I meet with a body of Christ for fellowship in various living rooms.   Hi Not3in1, Tha is exactly how I feel. My pastor is always saying you are like this denomination, or that demonination whenever I say I believe in something that differs from what he preaches. The fact is that I may believe some of what each denomination teaches, but then totally disagree with some other aspect of their teaching. So I am not fully any denomination. I just call myself a follower of Christ. I think it is absurd that we have some 340 denominations withinin a church that was warned by Paul to not be divisive. Tim

TimothyVI

Amen. You are correct.

But I think even if you did away with the denominational walls, there would still be a lot of division.

This forum is proof of that!

I personally think its gonna take physical persecution that God will use to bring his people into unity.

Blessings

[chosenone]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 04 2007,17:49)

Quote (TimothyVI @ April 04 2007,11:04) Quote (Not3in1 @ April 04 2007,03:49)  For the most part, I consider myself a biblical Unitarian (although I do not like to be associated with denominations any more).  I meet with a body of Christ for fellowship in various living rooms.   Hi Not3in1, Tha is exactly how I feel. My pastor is always saying you are like this denomination, or that demonination whenever I say I believe in something that differs from what he preaches. The fact is that I may believe some of what each denomination teaches, but then totally disagree with some other aspect of their teaching. So I am not fully any denomination. I just call myself a follower of Christ. I think it is absurd that we have some 340 denominations withinin a church that was warned by Paul to not be divisive. Tim TimothyVI Amen. You are correct. But I think even if you did away with the denominational walls, there would still be a lot of division. This forum is proof of that! I personally think its gonna take physical persecution that God will use to bring his people into unity. Blessings

Amen and Amen, “All is of God, all is by Him, thru Him, and for Him”.(Ro.11:46) “His achievment are we”. (Eph.2:10)

Blessings.

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
The tares will be removed .

[Not3in1]

Tim, WJ, and Nick – good points, brothers, regarding the church, and denominations!

[NickHassan]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 04 2007,17:49)

Quote (TimothyVI @ April 04 2007,11:04) Quote (Not3in1 @ April 04 2007,03:49)  For the most part, I consider myself a biblical Unitarian (although I do not like to be associated with denominations any more).  I meet with a body of Christ for fellowship in various living rooms.   Hi Not3in1, Tha is exactly how I feel. My pastor is always saying you are like this denomination, or that demonination whenever I say I believe in something that differs from what he preaches. The fact is that I may believe some of what each denomination teaches, but then totally disagree with some other aspect of their teaching. So I am not fully any denomination. I just call myself a follower of Christ. I think it is absurd that we have some 340 denominations withinin a church that was warned by Paul to not be divisive. Tim TimothyVI Amen. You are correct. But I think even if you did away with the denominational walls, there would still be a lot of division. This forum is proof of that! I personally think its gonna take physical persecution that God will use to bring his people into unity. Blessings

Hi w,
A good start would be agreement on plain scriptural teaching being the truth of God.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Not3in1 @ April 05 2007,04:04)

Tim, WJ, and Nick – good points, brothers, regarding the church, and denominations!

Tim2

Thanks!

I appreciate your zeal for Yeshua!

He seems to get little honour these days by men attempting to honour the Father without him.

Jesus said they are thieves and robbers by trying to get to the Father by some other way.

He said I Am the way the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by me.

Wow, what a statement!

Too so many he is just a puppet on a string, when we know he is our Saviour God!

Honouring and worshipping Yeshua is honouring and worshipping the Father, for he who has the Son has the Father.

And the Father said “Hear Ye Him”.

Blessings

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