Finding a church

[david]

Topical.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 15 2006,22:31)

Quote (david @ April 15 2006,21:35) The pharisees believed God was omnipresent. Much like the trinity doctrine, by teaching that God is omnipresent Christendom has confused matters and made it more difficult for God to be real to his worshipers. God is a spirit Person, which means that he does not have a material body, but a spiritual one. “If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one.” (1 Cor. 15:44; John 4:24) God being an individual, a Person with a spirit body, has a place where he resides, and so he could not be at any other place at the same time. Thus we read at 1 Kings 8:43 that the heavens are God’s “established PLACE of dwelling.” Also, we are told at Hebrews 9:24 that “Christ entered . . . into heaven itself, now to appear before the person of God for us.” Moreover, the disciple Stephen and the apostle John had visions of heaven in which they saw both God and Jesus Christ. So Jehovah God must be just as much a person, an individual, as Jesus Christ is. (Acts 7:56; Rev. 5:1, 9) Those Christians who have a hope of eventually living in heaven are assured that they will see God and also be like him, showing that Jehovah God truly is a person and has a body as well as a certain location.—1 John 3:2. It could well be that some have been confused due to the fact that God is allseeing; also his power can be felt everywhere. (2 Chron. 16:9) We might illustrate these facts by likening God to an electric power plant. It has a certain location on a certain street in a city. But its electricity is distributed over all the city, providing light and power. And so with Jehovah God. He has a location in the highest heavens, but his active force, his holy spirit, furnishes enlightenment, and its force can be felt everywhere, over all the universe. Perhaps this analogy would explain an apparent contradiction in some's understanding of Ps 139 with other scriptures. david. Hi david, What did Paul mean when he said to the Athenians in Acts 17.27 “that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us, for in Him we live and move and exist..”? or 2 Chr 5.19 “.God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself”? or Phil 2.13 ”  for it is God who is at work in you , both to will and to work..”?

Hi,
God is so close, by His Spirit.

[seminarian]

Quote (Woutlaw @ April 13 2006,00:24)

Oneness Pentecostals Binitarians Unitarians Jehovah Witnesses Orthodox Jews Reformed Jews Conservative Jews Muslims

WoutLaw,

Good list! I'd also like to add the following who also claim to be Christians:

Quakers
Mormons
Sacred Name Movement People, (i.e Assembly of Yahweh)
The Way
Biblical Unitarians
Christadelphians

I think Nick made a good point not to look to a denomination for salvation. If we do we are simply building on someone else's foundation. I've found all of these groups to be lacking in one aspect of Biblical understanding or another. Except for the Quakers and the Sared Name Movement followers, most all the others were started by some loud mouth who claimed to be a prophet. Time has shown them all to be charlatans as none of their prophecies have come true yet they still hold followers in their sway. These are the false prophets the Lord Jesus said would come into the world.

Such groups would include the Mormons with John Smith, the Jehovah's Witnesses with Charles Taze Russell and The Way with Dr. Paul Wierwille. Jesus said you would know them by their fruits so take a little time to research all three of these guys' teachings, practices and lifestyles if you want to know the truth about the denominations they started.

Be blessed!

Semmy

[seminarian]

Oh this too WoutLaw,

You wrote of the Oneness Petecostals, (aka Modalists):

“Many in this group also believe that if one doesn't believe that Jesus is the God of the Old Testament, they will die in their sins. They are also hardcore on holiness. One shouldn't watch TV, listen to worldly music, go swimming in a public place, women must only wear skirts, women must not cut their hair, men are to be clean shaven, no wearing of shorts. No makeup for women. No alcoholic consumption. Basically guys a bunch of legalism.”

I know this other minister who studied at a UPC Bible school, not a seminary and this description fits his wife exactly!  He's always tanned, goes to these wierd all guy, pastor camps and leaves his wife home with their 8 kids!  She looks so much older than he does, (I wonder why), that I don't even think makeup COULD help her.  Let me stop.

The point is, legalism upon legalism.  When he started mouthing off, I told him to show me where it says any of that junk in the Bible.  He never provided one scripture.  Worse than that, he thought he'd be funny and try to cause trouble for me at the new church I've been serving.

All the other ministers know my stand on the trinity and leave me alone because they never could win a debate using scriptures. It obviously doesn't bother them because they keep inviting me and my family to every picnic, pool party and ministry event on the calendar. They still keep asking me to serve there too but I had to cut back because of my own ministry. This church is already huge but is still growing and they are building another twice it's size.

So, I told Rev. OP point blank he'd be lookin' down the barrel of a lawsuit if he tried ANYTHING.  Cricket, cricket.

So it goes with people who are just interested in controlling others in the name of religion.  Great insights!  Thanks.

Semmy

[epistemaniac]

can you say “arrogant” semmy? gooodddd.. I knew you could….. If your pastors could not defeat you in a debate concerning the Trinity, they do not deserve to be pastors…. and threatening another Christian with a lawsuit says volumes about your character…. volumes…..

[seminarian]

Ah E-Maniac,

Those pastors have masters of divinity degrees.  What do YOU have behind your name besides Jr.?
That's not the point.  They could not win a debate to prove the so called trinity
because it is just not in the Bible.  What the Bible DOES say, (over and over), is that
Jesus is the SON OF GOD.  See, it's that simple.  You can't make something appear
in the Bible that does not.  If you do, then you are a liar and adding to God's word in violation
of the many scriptures including the Book of Revelation 22:18-19 which calls down
curses on those who do so.  Do you enjoy being cursed?

Now.  Can you spell “s-l-a-n-d-e-r”?   The Bible clearly says :

“Do not go about speading slander among your people.” [Leviticus 19:17]

This pastor was attempting to slander me. I could have offered to clean his clock but instead chose the more civil route of a lawsuit if he chose to continue.  If you want people to think YOU are so much better than that, i.e. the peace-maker, you might wish to change that ludicrous “Braveheart” photo you keep sporting!

Please, (get real)

Semmy

[Is 1:18]

1 Corinthians 6:1
If any of you has a dispute with another, dare he take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the saints?

1 Corinthians 6:7
The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated?

James 2:6
But you have insulted the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court?

BTW, the photo is from the Lord of the Rings movie, not Braveheart.

[seminarian]

Is,

The pastor in question is an obvious apostate for slandering in the first
place is he not? Therefore the scriptures which apply to a “brother in Christ”
do not include someone who accuses the brethren like Satan.

Wow, thanks for the clarification on E-Maniac's action figure!
Yours is even worse. Pokemon I assume?

Grow up please, both of you. This forum is for adults last time I checked.

Semmy

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Our weapons are not those the world uses but loving and peaceful ways among our neighbours.

[twenclewicz]

Visit remnantfellowship.org we are located in Brentwood Tennessee but you can watch via the web every wed and sat. I have never been to a church more in love with God than this one. A church who not just knows the scriptures but does what it says.
Tiffany

[david]

Hi Tiffany,

Here are some things that the scriptures say:

MATTHEW 28:19-20
“Go therefore and make disciples of people ofall the nationsbaptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.””

MATTHEW 24:14
“And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nationsand then the end will come.”

I often wonder how the billion people in the world who don't have enough to eat, which includes the 450,000,000 people who are on the verge of starvation will hear the good news. Is it via internet? They don't have food, much less a computer. Or would Jesus disciples be going individually to people of the all the nations?

Quote

we are located in Brentwood Tennesseebut you can watch via the web every wed and sat. . . .A church who not just knows the scriptures but does what it says.

[david]

I guess my question would be better stated here than in the Mormon thread:

Quote

I need information on a church that does not beleive in trinity where I can go and worship God. I live in Brampton, Ontario, Canada. please give me names or addresses of churches where I can go. Thank you, may God bless. Brother in Christ.

Which religions that claim to be Christian “does not believe in trinity” as she states.
While Mormon's do not believe in the Catholic trinity, exactly, they do seem to believe in a trinity concept.

[david]

While Mormons don't believe in the Catholic trinity, they seem to believe in a trinity.

“From Smith's time to the present day The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has taught that the members of the Godhead are one God, though not in the consubstantial sense of unity intended by the writers of the Nicene creed. They are considered three distinct individuals who are so united in purpose and desires that they act as one, but they maintain their individuality and are not one in substance. However, each member of the Godhead (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost) is referred to as God in LDS theology.”–Wickipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism_and_Christianity

“Nature of God
In LDS belief, the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, are united as the “Divine Godhead” and “Holy Trinity, comprising three physically separate and distinct individuals who together constitute the presiding council of the heavens.”[24] God the Father serves in a presiding role in the Godhead and is the Father of spirits [25], including the spirit of Jesus Christ. Christ, as the mediator between mortals and the Father, is worshipped as Lord and Savior, and is also referred to throughout the LDS canon of scripture as God[26] He (Jesus) was the God of the Old Testament and during the Old Testament times was known as Jehovah. Under the direction of the Father, Jehovah (Jesus) created the Earth and all things on it. [27] . . . .The Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants are explicit in their assertion that all three members of the Godhead; Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one God [30] , though this is not intended to imply oneness in the consubstantia (or “One in being” as it is sometimes rendered in English) sense intended by the Nicene Creed.”
–Same

Mormon 7:7 speaks about singing praises “unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.”

Do Mormon's believe in “the” trinity belief? Maybe not. Many on here who believe that God is a trinity don't espouse “the” standard trinity belief either. But Mormon's do seem to believe in a trinity of sorts. (If there are any LDS people out there who could correct me if I'm wrong….)

The other group that was mentioned was mentioned as not believing in the trinity was unitarians. I didn't even really know who they were. They have never came to my door, after all and made themselves or their message known. (compare Mat 24:14)
But, as far as I can tell, unitarians aren't really . . . I'm not sure what they are, but they don't seem to believe the same thing.
Wickipedia states: “Many Unitarian Universalists consider themselves humanists, while others hold to Christian, Buddhist, Jewish, natural theist, atheist, agnostic, pantheist, or other beliefs. . . .There are Buddhist meditation teachers, Sufi teachers, as well as gnostic and episcopi vagantes clerics. ” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism

In a survey, Unitarian Universalists in the United States were asked which provided term or set of terms best describe their belief. Many respondents chose more than one term to describe their beliefs. The top choices were:

* Humanist – 54%
* Agnostic – 33%
* Earth-centered – 31%
* Atheist – 18%
* Buddhist – 16.5%
* Christian – 13.1%
* Pagan – 13.1%

My original question that I asked before I knew that someone had started a thread on this very subject was: Are there any groups out there “claiming to be Christian” that disbelieve the trinity doctrine?

“Traditionally, Unitarianism was a form of Christianity. The term may refer to any belief about the nature of Jesus Christ that affirms God as a singular entity and rejects the doctrine of the Trinity.”–same source.

In answer to the original question posted: I think it seems that the only group that claims to worship God and be Christians and not accept the trinity belief are Jehovah's Witnesses.

[Author]

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