- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Hi Woutlaw,
Yes the derivation of the word us that these folk think God is one being Who changes between modes of Father, Son and Spirit according to the situation.Of course trinity theory is different only in that it sees three persons in one God who can manifest together in different ways and places.
So they both deny Jesus is truly the Son of God, which is what he came to tell us.
Quote They believe that God is one being, who revealed himself to man in 3 manifestations that are just roles or offices that the one true God fills.
Woutlaw, to me that sounds a lot like the trinity belief, doesn't it?
He's one being–revealed in 3 manifestations or roles or offices.So, other than Jehovah's Witnesses, (and the Oneness Pentecostals, who as far as I can tell, basically believe the trinity, but word it different) are their any other groups claiming to be Christians that strongly disagree with the trinity?
What about the Latter day Saints (Mormons) or how about Christadelphians?
Yes david,
But the JWs come with a lot of other doctrinal baggage that is unscriptural. Do these things not grate with you?Please, let's just discuss this one thing for a moment if we could. There are many other threads where we can discuss many other things. Notice the question raised in the first post in this topic: They basically asked: 'Any churches that don't believe in the trinity?' (I prefer the word “congregation,” or perhaps, “faith.”)
And like t8, who plead ignorance of any such groups and said: 'I have no idea,' you too sidestep the question.Quote Yes david,
But the JWs come with a lot of other doctrinal baggage that is unscriptural. Do these things not grate with you?What you now see as “doctrinal baggage,” I see as scripture.
You once wrote with refernce to my belief about Jonah not being dead in the belly of the fish:Quote
You are twisting scripture to justify your doctrines.
It would be great to see a little openmindedness and not just doctrinal justification from you.
And now you seem to believe as I do with respect to Jonah, and so apparently, when you speak to someone about Jonah, you will be using the same “doctrinal justification” I was. Or is it right when you say it but wrong when I say it because it's somehow “doctrinal justification?”OK, back to what this thread is about. I'm truly interested in the question raised. Besides Jehovah's Witnesses and a few non-denominationalists who are united in there belief of God, but separate on most other beliefs, are there any other organized groups that oppose the trinity belief?
About the Oneness Pentecostals belief of modalism,
Isn't their belief basically: “Trinity where only one person of the Godhead exist at any one time”
If the three modes of God are able to co-exist at the same time, then there is no essential difference with Modalism and Trinity doctrine.Quote (david @ April 13 2006,06:56) About the Oneness Pentecostals belief of modalism,
Isn't their belief basically: “Trinity where only one person of the Godhead exist at any one time”
If the three modes of God are able to co-exist at the same time, then there is no essential difference with Modalism and Trinity doctrine.
well David,Their argument would be that God is Onmipresent. He can operate in all 3 modes at the same time. I'm am currently engaged in a debate with an elder of the United Pentecostal Church. And he really threw me for a loop. I told him that the scriptures clearly make distinctions between the Father and the Son. He said he agrees? He claims that there is a clear distinction between the 3 modes as far as their functions, but it is the One true God in all 3. So yes it does kinda sound like the Trinity. Well actually the only reason the Oneness doctrine exist is because of the Trinity. It sounds like our Oneness and Trinitarian friends are trying to reinvent themselves. What do you guys think?
Hi Woutlaw,
What both do is deny the separate reality of the Son who is not dependant on the life of the Father but has life in himself.Quote Their argument would be that God is Onmipresent. I don't believe that God is omnipresent. How could God be present everywhere at the same time? God is a spirit Person, which means that he does not have a material body, but a spiritual one. A spirit has a body. “If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one.” (1 Cor. 15:44; John 4:24) God being an individual, a Person with a spirit body, has a place where he resides, and so he could not be at any other place at the same time. Thus we read at 1 Kings 8:43 that the heavens are God’s “established PLACE of dwelling.” Also, we are told at Hebrews 9:24 that “Christ entered . . . into heaven itself, now to appear before the person of God for us.”
Anyway, so as far as I can tell, there is only one faith that claims to be Christian and strongly opposes the trinity. Good to know. I was sort of wondering about that.
Are we sure there's no other groups out there?Hi david,
Every living being contains the breath of God, enlivening the spirit that returns to God at death. Thus God knows our every thought and motive such that we can be judged.The pharisees believed God was omnipresent.
Much like the trinity doctrine, by teaching that God is omnipresent Christendom has confused matters and made it more difficult for God to be real to his worshipers.
God is a spirit Person, which means that he does not have a material body, but a spiritual one.
“If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one.” (1 Cor. 15:44; John 4:24)
God being an individual, a Person with a spirit body, has a place where he resides, and so he could not be at any other place at the same time.
Thus we read at 1 Kings 8:43 that the heavens are God’s
“established PLACE of dwelling.”
Also, we are told at Hebrews 9:24 that “Christ entered . . . into heaven itself, now to appear before the person of God for us.”Moreover, the disciple Stephen and the apostle John had visions of heaven in which they saw both God and Jesus Christ.
So Jehovah God must be just as much a person, an individual, as Jesus Christ is. (Acts 7:56; Rev. 5:1, 9) Those Christians who have a hope of eventually living in heaven are assured that they will see God and also be like him, showing that Jehovah God truly is a person and has a body as well as a certain location.—1 John 3:2.It could well be that some have been confused due to the fact that God is allseeing; also his power can be felt everywhere. (2 Chron. 16:9) We might illustrate these facts by likening God to an electric power plant. It has a certain location on a certain street in a city. But its electricity is distributed over all the city, providing light and power. And so with Jehovah God. He has a location in the highest heavens, but his active force, his holy spirit, furnishes enlightenment, and its force can be felt everywhere, over all the universe.
Perhaps this analogy would explain an apparent contradiction in some's understanding of Ps 139 with other scriptures.david.
Quote I need information on a church that does not beleive in trinity where I can go and worship God. I live in Brampton, Ontario, Canada. please give me names or addresses of churches where I can go. Thank you, may God bless.
Brother in Christ.
Anyway, in answer to the question raised in this thread: I believe there is only one such group. And yes, there would be several locations in Brampton, Ontario where such ones meet to praise God and worship and encourage one another, as commanded in Scripture. (Heb 10:24,25)But you won't have to search them out. Because of love for their neighbor, they will find you. Perhaps, they already have.
Quote So Jehovah God must be just as much a person, an individual, as Jesus Christ is. (Acts 7:56; Rev. 5:1, 9) Those Christians who have a hope of eventually living in heaven are assured that they will see God and also be like him, showing that Jehovah God truly is a person and has a body as well as a certain location.—1 John 3:2. Hebrews 1:8-9
“But unto the Son, he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness and hated iniquity therefore God, even thy God,hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.You will not be as YWHW, but rather we shall be as Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Luke 8:21
He replied, “My mother and brothers are those who hear God's word and put it into practice.”
Luke 8:20-22 (in Context) Luke 8 (Whole Chapter)Quote (david @ April 15 2006,21:35) The pharisees believed God was omnipresent.
Much like the trinity doctrine, by teaching that God is omnipresent Christendom has confused matters and made it more difficult for God to be real to his worshipers.
God is a spirit Person, which means that he does not have a material body, but a spiritual one.
“If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one.” (1 Cor. 15:44; John 4:24)
God being an individual, a Person with a spirit body, has a place where he resides, and so he could not be at any other place at the same time.
Thus we read at 1 Kings 8:43 that the heavens are God’s
“established PLACE of dwelling.”
Also, we are told at Hebrews 9:24 that “Christ entered . . . into heaven itself, now to appear before the person of God for us.”Moreover, the disciple Stephen and the apostle John had visions of heaven in which they saw both God and Jesus Christ.
So Jehovah God must be just as much a person, an individual, as Jesus Christ is. (Acts 7:56; Rev. 5:1, 9) Those Christians who have a hope of eventually living in heaven are assured that they will see God and also be like him, showing that Jehovah God truly is a person and has a body as well as a certain location.—1 John 3:2.It could well be that some have been confused due to the fact that God is allseeing; also his power can be felt everywhere. (2 Chron. 16:9) We might illustrate these facts by likening God to an electric power plant. It has a certain location on a certain street in a city. But its electricity is distributed over all the city, providing light and power. And so with Jehovah God. He has a location in the highest heavens, but his active force, his holy spirit, furnishes enlightenment, and its force can be felt everywhere, over all the universe.
Perhaps this analogy would explain an apparent contradiction in some's understanding of Ps 139 with other scriptures.david.
Hi david,
What did Paul mean when he said to the Athenians in Acts 17.27
“that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us, for in Him we live and move and exist..”?
or 2 Chr 5.19
“.God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself”?
or Phil 2.13
” for it is God who is at work in you , both to will and to work..”?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
