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Yes, of course I know that “feelings” are a DIRTY WORD with Christians. We are not to rely on “feelings” and all that-we are to rely on faith.
My question is…….WHERE does it say in the Bible that once we are saved, those “feelings” go away? Where does it say that we should not experience those feelings all the time?
I started wondering about this, and tried googling it to see what I could find. I found this comment on a site and wondered what everyone here thinks. This person was a Christian and experienced the wonderful “feelings”….yet when he became an athiest, he still experienced them!
When I was a Christian, there were several occasions when I experienced the feeling of God’s divinity, when I felt like God was watching over me with warm loving acceptance. That feeling was one of the reasons why it was so difficult for me to leave Christianity. The bible was self-contradictory and spoke of an evil, mean, spiteful and jealous God. Religion didn’t make sense – where was this feeling of acceptance and love and forgiveness coming from??
I finally read about how people of other religions, or practices, also create this feeling of transcendence, Bodhi, Satori, Nirvana or enlightenment in themselves; Monks from Tibet, Masters from India, or from elsewhere in Asia where they worship ancestors or animal spirits instead of God, sweat lodges, even fasting. Throughout history people have found different ways to attain these feelings, this insight, or ’god’ feeling.
Since most religions are mutually exclusive, the feelings can’t all be coming from one god. Either there is a multitude of gods, or it is all in our heads.
The field of Neurotheology is currently a ‘borderland science’ that is still hotly contested. Religious results seem to be inconsistent when magnets are used to stimulate the brain – perhaps because individuals all seem to be ‘wired’ somewhat differently. In other cases there are firm results that show a connection between brain and religious experiences in people who experience seizures, or when electrical stimulation is applied directly to the brain during brain surgery. An experiment involving Nuns has also shown that a variety of brain locations seem to be affected during the recreation of religious feelings.
I find it very plausible that religious experience is created in the software of our minds as it runs on the wetware of our brains. I think this way because after I became Atheist, I was able to re-achieve transcending feelings of awe, of acceptance, of being comforted, and of reverence.
Feeling God’s presence
Also, I have a friend of mine at work who does not believe in Jesus. He believes in God, but not Jesus. He says that he has experienced “feelings” so strong that he believed he went to Heaven in his mind-he said he “felt God” that strongly.
Comments on the article, or what my friend experienced? Yes, faith is BELIEF…..but where in the bible does it say that those wonderful peaceful feelings of acceptance go away? Or why would OTHER religions and beliefs experience the same thing that Christians experience?
As Christians, when we “feel” those wonderful things, we say something like “Oh, I feel the Holy Spirit in me!” or something similar……so why would OTHER religions experience the same thing?[B]
What are those feelings called, when nonbelievers “feel” them? Could it really be that they are some short circuit in our brains, and NOT the presence of God?
I know that I have “felt” some really intense things that I believed was the Holy Spirit in me. Now I'm quite confused about what it actually was!
I mean-don't get me wrong. I know that the role of the Holy Spirit is NOT just to give us those nice, warm fuzzy feelings. His job is to comfort, to guide, to teach, to help us recall scriptures, etc…….
I'm just confused now. lol
Ok, I apologize, but that post was messed up-it sounds like I am an athiest, but I'm a firm believer in Christ. It did not separate my words from the text I had quoted, and it did not post the link to the original post that the article was quoted from….I saw no way to edit my post-I should have previewed it first before posting, but I didn't.
Hi and welcome M,
God is so near to all of us.
But make sure you have obeyed the command to be born again before you trust any experience.Seek first the kingdom..
Welcome Mara!
Your voice sounds familiar….I hear myself thinking some of the same things you have shared.
Looking forward to hearing more from you. I have a few comments on your post, and will come back this evening and share them (I'm only briefly checking in now).
So glad that you're here.
Love,
MandyQuote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 07 2009,06:00) Hi and welcome M,
God is so near to all of us.
But make sure you have obeyed the command to be born again before you trust any experience.Seek first the kingdom..
Thank you for your reply…but why would you imply that I have not been saved? Just curious….my question is basically WHERE does it say in the Bible that Christians are NOT supposed to feel a closeness with God?The peace that we experience is spoken of all through the Bible, yet every single Christian out there throws a fit if someone mentions that they “felt” something…..David speaks of “tasting the goodness of God” in Psalms, which implies a feeling. He also speaks of being “far” from God, and seeking closeness with Him. If David felt “far” from God, then that implies that he also “felt” a closeness, or otherwise he would not be upset about not feeling close to God.
When Elizabeth saw Mary, her baby John “leaped for joy” inside her…she was filled with the Holy Spirit, the Bible tells us. She sang and was happy because she “felt” something when Mary walked in the room.
So obviously these “feelings” are a NORMAL part of being a Christian….or they should be anyway.
My question is also the fact that if OTHER religions seem to have similar “feelings”, then what exactly are those feelings, since they are not the Holy Spirit in them?
Quote (Maranatha @ Mar. 07 2009,17:41) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 07 2009,06:00) Hi and welcome M,
God is so near to all of us.
But make sure you have obeyed the command to be born again before you trust any experience.Seek first the kingdom..
Thank you for your reply…but why would you imply that I have not been saved? Just curious….my question is basically WHERE does it say in the Bible that Christians are NOT supposed to feel a closeness with God?The peace that we experience is spoken of all through the Bible, yet every single Christian out there throws a fit if someone mentions that they “felt” something…..David speaks of “tasting the goodness of God” in Psalms, which implies a feeling. He also speaks of being “far” from God, and seeking closeness with Him. If David felt “far” from God, then that implies that he also “felt” a closeness, or otherwise he would not be upset about not feeling close to God.
When Elizabeth saw Mary, her baby John “leaped for joy” inside her…she was filled with the Holy Spirit, the Bible tells us. She sang and was happy because she “felt” something when Mary walked in the room.
So obviously these “feelings” are a NORMAL part of being a Christian….or they should be anyway.
My question is also the fact that if OTHER religions seem to have similar “feelings”, then what exactly are those feelings, since they are not the Holy Spirit in them?
Hi:Yes, of course, feelings and attributes such the following have to be part of being a Christian:
Quote Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.Do other religions have the assurance of salvation? Muslims believe that God exists and that they worship Him, but they do not know if they are saved or not. There salvation would be dependant on whether their good deeds outweighed their evil deeds.
As a Christian, I have a personal relationship with God as my heavenly Father. I just don't believe that there is a supreme being. I know this for a fact, and I know that His promises of a new heaven and a new earth wherein dwelleth righteousness are true.
People who practice other religions may experience certain feelings of peace or joy, I really don't know, but they all are in darkness regarding whether or not God exists without a doubt.
Love in Christ,
Marty90210
The 'assurances of salvation' are snake oil for an imaginary illness.
The assurance of an eternity beyond for all those with enough HeavenCard points is a promisory note written on a cheque made of crazy-ball rubber.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Mar. 10 2009,21:43) Maranatha
You WERE an atheist but now you are a christian again? What went wrong?Stuart
I have no idea what you are talking about. If you read my post, I had started writing it, and then I quoted text from a different post in the fourth paragraph. The quotations did not show up, and I had no way to edit the original post, so I explained what happened in the next post.I am a Christian, and have NEVER been an athiest-I have believed in Christ since I was old enough for my parents to tell me about Him.
I wish there was a way to DELETE this post, since it got so messed up!
Quote (Maranatha @ Mar. 11 2009,02:19) Quote (Stu @ Mar. 10 2009,21:43) Maranatha
You WERE an atheist but now you are a christian again? What went wrong?Stuart
I have no idea what you are talking about. If you read my post, I had started writing it, and then I quoted text from a different post in the fourth paragraph. The quotations did not show up, and I had no way to edit the original post, so I explained what happened in the next post.I am a Christian, and have NEVER been an athiest-I have believed in Christ since I was old enough for my parents to tell me about Him.
I wish there was a way to DELETE this post, since it got so messed up!
OK, I understand now.What did your parents tell you about Jesus that was so convicing to you?
Stuart
Quote (Maranatha @ Mar. 11 2009,02:19) Quote (Stu @ Mar. 10 2009,21:43) Maranatha
You WERE an atheist but now you are a christian again? What went wrong?Stuart
I have no idea what you are talking about. If you read my post, I had started writing it, and then I quoted text from a different post in the fourth paragraph. The quotations did not show up, and I had no way to edit the original post, so I explained what happened in the next post.I am a Christian, and have NEVER been an athiest-I have believed in Christ since I was old enough for my parents to tell me about Him.
I wish there was a way to DELETE this post, since it got so messed up!
Go to the Help Desk and you will find a thread to ask for editing rights.
Welcome Mara,
I do not know this group of Christians you speak of that say feelings are bad. God gave us the ability to have feelings afterall. I think that when we base our beliefs on our feelings we can get into trouble though. We need to take every thought and feeling captive and test it to scriptures and what we know of Christ's character. Do not let your feelings lead you but be sensitive to them.Phil 4:8-9
8 Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things. 9 The things you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, practice these things, and the God of peace will be with you.
NASUI hope this helps.
God bless,
Kathi/LU/LightenupThis may be a long post….lol You may or may not believe anything I say in this post, but I promise you that every word is very real!
I grew up in a Baptist church, and my parents “forced” me to “get saved and baptized” as a small child. Of course, this was not the real deal, and I know that. They told me that God was my Father in Heaven, and that Jesus loved me, etc. etc. I believed it and never stopped believing it.
I did stop going to church though, because I just didn't like the church. I stopped going to church when I was 12 years old.
When I was 17, a guy I met asked me if I knew Jesus. I rolled my eyes and said “Yeah, but I haven't been to church in 5 years…”
He told me about his church, which was a Nondenominational church. I could not sleep that night, and could not stop thinking about that church. I got up and went the next morning, which was the first time in 5 years I had even wanted to step in a church.The “urge” to go was incredibly strong….I couldn't NOT go. I did not know it at the time, but I know it was the Holy Spirit that led me to that church. It was God leading me there, because He was calling me to Him.
I sat in the back of the church, and I felt peace. I started crying….I could not stop. I had no idea WHY I was crying either…..again, it was the Holy Spirit. The pastor did a sort of alter call, where people came up to the alter for salvation, or just for blessings, or for prayer.
Something inside me (it was the Holy Spirit, I know) made me go up there. Again-I couldn't NOT go up there….the Holy Spirit led me up there! The pastor went to the first person and laid his hand on their head and prayed. Then he went to the next person and did the same thing. When he got to me, he yelled out…”The Holy Spirit is in this girl right now!”…he touched me on the head very lightly…..and I fell to the ground, out cold.
I had fallen out in the Spirit! Now, before you say that I was just “caught up in the excitement”…..it was a very calm service. No one was overexcited at all.
I was crying silently, but I was not “overwrought” or anything like that. Also, the pastor did not PUSH me at all when he touched my head. He barely touched my head. I had never seen or heard of someone falling out in the Spirit….so I know that I was not just “trying to copy other people” because I had never seen someone fall out in the Spirit.
I have had many times in my life where I was “overexcited” or upset, or in shock over something, or whatever, but I have NEVER fainted. So my “falling out in the Spirit” was real.
I woke up, covered in a red cloth, and there were other people on the floor around me. I heard people say “Look! She's waking up!”…so I have no idea what I said or did when I fell out. I could care less what other people say negative about falling out in the Spirit. When I woke up, I felt instant peace….and I was CHANGED, right then. I know without a doubt that God TOUCHED ME….and I was out on the floor.
A few months later, I was at church, and I had been going through something bad with my legs. I was in a lot of pain at times, and doctors could not find out what was wrong with my legs. Some days I was on crutches, the pain was so bad. Well, that day, the pastor was preaching, and all of a sudden, he said “Someone in here needs healing!”……
I looked around, wondering who he was going to go to……
He came straight to me! He laid his hand on me, and everyone around laid their hands on me and the pastor healed me IN THE NAME OF JESUS. The pain was immedietely gone, and I have not had that pain since! PRAISE GOD! Yes, this is true, and yes, my legs were healed by the power of Jesus Christ!
Yes, I know that a lot of the healings on TV may or may not be staged. But I am here to testify that JESUS CHRIST healed my legs when I was a teenager!
Unfortunantly, I was young and stupid. I backslid, and fell away from God and church, although I NEVER stopped believing in Him…..
I met and married a very abusive man when I was 20 years old. He beat me constantly. I put him in jail for 2 months for beating me, and he asked me to come see him in jail. Like a dummy, I went. He asked me to get him out the next day. I said I would think about it….
Driving home, I said a quick prayer….I had not paid attention to God for about 4 years, since I stopped going to church. I prayed…….
“God-I don't know what to do. Please…send me a sign as to whether I should get my husband out of jail or not tomorrow!”
Less than 5 minutes later, my car slid on some ice that was not there. That's the only way I know of to say it-there was no ice or snow on the road, but I hit something and went over a cliff. There were no guardrails coming down the hill, and my car flipped 3 times….
As I was flipping, I knew I was going to die. But I felt a PEACE, and I HEARD God say to me…”Not yet. Your time is not yet!”
Yes, I heard this! My car flipped 3 times and crashed. My car was COMPLETELY totaled out……and I got out of that car without a SINGLE scratch on me!!! It was by the grace of God!!! He saved me right there! He gave me the sign that I had asked Him for less than 5 minutes earlier! He did not want me to get my husband out of jail…I had no way to drive to get him out!
How can a person read that TRUE story, and NOT believe that was God? There is no way!
I have not led a good life, even after all that God has done for me. For that, I am so ashamed. I got into drinking and drugs when I was young……but when I decided to rededicate my life to Jesus a few years ago….I got down on my knees and cried, and begged God to forgive me and to come into my life again.
And INSTANTLY, the desire to do drugs and drink was gone! Instantly! I hate the thought of it! I had the most intense LOVE for God and for other people….and I could not stop reading my bible-it was like I was HUNGRY for God's word, all the time! I felt a peace, no matter what was going on in my life. I saw a vision of Jesus for over one week!
I know that sounds crazy, but I did! I literally saw Him walking next to me, holding my right hand. He was not in a “solid” form, but I could literally “see” Him in a sort of vision. I had a lot more things happen during that time too, but I know that God was making Himself real to me in a way that was on my own level, according to the faith that I had.
No, God does not give everyone experiences like what happened to me….each person's experience with God is different. Some people just one day believe, and they feel no different for awhile, then God changes them. I have a friend recently who was a heavy drinker and popped a lot of pills. She accepted Jesus and got depressed and a few weeks later, she decided to go get drunk and take some pills. She drank and drank and drank, and took a lot of pills, but could NOT catch a buzz for anything!
That was God's way of taking that away from her….she literally could not catch a buzz! A pastor at a church I used to go to had the exact same experience with alcohol and cocaine. A few months after he got saved, he went out to try to get drunk and high, one last time….and he snorted several grams of cocaine and drank a ton of alcohol, and felt absolutely NO buzz at all! God was through with him doing that, and He was not going to let him enjoy having a buzz anymore!
The point is, God is REAL, and the only way to Him is by accepting Jesus….what the Bible says is TRUE. The stories in the Bible are TRUE. What was written in the Bible about the miracles that Jesus did, the people He healed-all are TRUE. There were thousands of witnesses…….
But the thing is,
is that a person cannot accept these things unless God is calling them to Him. The bible says that those things will be “foolish” to those people.God desires that everyone will be saved…but He also knows who will become a believer and who will reject Jesus. The bible says that no one can come to the Father (God) except through Jesus Christ.
God CHOOSES us to come to Him! How exciting is that?!! The God who created the WORLD, picks us to come to Him and be saved! He “draws us” to Him! To “draw” us to Him means that He gives us a desire to know Him……and I believe that God is calling you right now. He is choosing YOU!
The fact that you are hanging out here, with an interest in learning…that more than likely means that God is calling YOU. He is choosing YOU to be part of His family!
There are no words to describe how a person feels when they realize that Jesus is real and they accept Him. Having a relationship with Jesus, knowing that He is with us every minute of every day, and that we can go to Him for anything at all-He will give us comfort, knowledge, and love.
Through Jesus Christ, we can have ETERNAL LIFE in Heaven! We will be with Him forever! There will be no tears, no pain, no suffering, no anger, no hate, no hunger….nothing but LOVE.
We can only have this through Jesus Christ. He died a horrible, horrible death, because He loves us so very much and wants us to have a relationship with Him. He obeyed God, the Father, and gave up His glory and riches in Heaven, so that He could become a humble, poor human for 33 1/2 years, teaching, healing, performing miracles…so that people would believe that He is the Son of God.
Then He died by crucifixion and rose from the grave 3 days later….and that took care of our sins! He did all that so that we can be forgiven, and can be in Heaven with God when we die!
Think of all the thousands of people who have DIED for their beliefs. Have you ever felt so strongly about something you believed in that you would DIE for that belief?
Well, Jesus' disciples, and thousands and thousands of other followers did….now why would those people submit to death for something that was not true? Because they witnessed it! They told other people, whom God called to Him, and they opened their hearts and believed in Jesus and how He died for our sins.
When you accept Jesus, and believe that He is real-you have so much LOVE for Him and what He did for us. You YEARN to be with Him……..you KNOW He is real. There is just no way we CAN'T know He is real, even though we have never been in His presence. There is this huge desire to please Him and just be closer and closer to God…..
I urge you to speak to God. You don't have to use any fancy words…..ask Him to save you. Ask Him to open your heart for Him. Tell Him that you want to know Him……
Sorry I got a little carried away! I didn't know any other way to explain how I know Jesus is real, without just telling my testimonies. Yes, I promise you, they are REAL, just like Jesus is.
Maranatha
I have no reason to doubt your story. I think you are mistaken to attribute any of it to any gods, and in fact I think christianity is guilt-tripping you by suggesting that it can 'save you'. That is because christianity does not really understand humans, all it can do is approve or disapprove according to some pretty silly doctriines. If anyone wanted improvements in their own life it would be better to achieve those things for oneself, not for the approval of a religious organisation. That is not to say church people can't be a great social support network but why go for all the destructive nonsense from the pulpit when all one might need is the company. 'Falling away' from the chuch and then feeling regret seems to me to be a miserable cycle for anyone to be in.
Stuart
I'm sorry you don't believe, and I sincerely hope and pray that God will reveal Himself to you someday, before it is too late. God bless!
Quote (Maranatha @ Mar. 12 2009,01:37) I'm sorry you don't believe, and I sincerely hope and pray that God will reveal Himself to you someday, before it is too late. God bless!
I'm sorry that you do believe, and I hope you are able to see the true beauty in the universe before it is too late.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Mar. 12 2009,18:14) Quote (Maranatha @ Mar. 12 2009,01:37) I'm sorry you don't believe, and I sincerely hope and pray that God will reveal Himself to you someday, before it is too late. God bless!
I'm sorry that you do believe, and I hope you are able to see the true beauty in the universe before it is too late.Stuart
The universe HAS to have a Creator. It, and us, with all our technology, etc. simply cannot just “come into existence one day and evolve the way we have without a creator. The “big bang theory” is just ridiculous.I do appreciate the universe, because my God created it, and everything in it.
I'm always curious as to why an unbeliever hangs out in a Christian forum…….I mean, there are hundreds of other forums on the web, like sports, games, age groups, etc…….
But if all you want to do is to attempt to discredit other people's strong beliefs, then what satisfaction can it possibly give you? Wouldn't you be more happy at a forum where you had something in common with the other members?
Maranatha,
Good post, it is a shame that many become too “sophisticated” to believe the “foolish” things of God. I believe it is why Jesus told us to be as a child. Welcome, hope you stick aroundWm
Quote (Maranatha @ Mar. 13 2009,02:08) Quote (Stu @ Mar. 12 2009,18:14) Quote (Maranatha @ Mar. 12 2009,01:37) I'm sorry you don't believe, and I sincerely hope and pray that God will reveal Himself to you someday, before it is too late. God bless!
I'm sorry that you do believe, and I hope you are able to see the true beauty in the universe before it is too late.Stuart
The universe HAS to have a Creator. It, and us, with all our technology, etc. simply cannot just “come into existence one day and evolve the way we have without a creator. The “big bang theory” is just ridiculous.I do appreciate the universe, because my God created it, and everything in it.
I'm always curious as to why an unbeliever hangs out in a Christian forum…….I mean, there are hundreds of other forums on the web, like sports, games, age groups, etc…….
But if all you want to do is to attempt to discredit other people's strong beliefs, then what satisfaction can it possibly give you? Wouldn't you be more happy at a forum where you had something in common with the other members?
I'm not sure how you can say the big bang cosmology is 'ridiculous'. It is overwhelmingly supported by evidence and there is no other theory of the origins of the universe, unless you have an alternative that explains the evidence better.Perhaps you could tell us why there has to be a 'creator'. I can't think of any reason to need one. Perhaps it is because you have allowed yourself to be convinced that there is such a thing that makes you 'need' it.
We could question one another's motives for posting here, but I don't see the point frankly.
Stuart
Quote (seekingtruth @ Mar. 13 2009,03:22) Maranatha,
Good post, it is a shame that many become too “sophisticated” to believe the “foolish” things of God. I believe it is why Jesus told us to be as a child. Welcome, hope you stick aroundWm
Are you looking for scriptural excuses for not educating yourself? It is one thing to put your own head in the sand but quite another to suggest others do it.Since you mention being like a child, that is a time of exploration and expression of curiosity about the world, which I agree are qualities that should not necessarily diminish with age, however you are suggesting that Maranatha should be NOT like a child in shutting out the world.
How very jihad.
Stuart
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