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Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 15 2007,08:54) Thanks WorshipingJesus, Where the anti-Trinitarians stumble is useing the carnal mind to consider spirtual things. It's like trying to start your car with a can opener.
“The intellectual factors of religion are important, but their overdevelopment is likewise sometimes very handicapping and embarrassing. Religion must continually labor under a paradoxical necessity: the necessity of making effective use of thought while at the same time discounting the spiritual serviceableness of all thinking.”
Colter
Quote Colter Very well put!
Blessings!
Interpretation:Hey this guy actually agrees with me, so it must be good.
BTW, we really are not called anti-trinitarians, we are followers of the way. We are also not anti-aliens either for that matter.
In fact it is really those who believe in aliens or the Trinity or whatever, that need to prove that what they have is true. Not the other way round.
E.g., Should we require that those who are anti-mormons prove that mormons are not correct, or is the onus really on mormons to prove that they are correct?
If the onus was on the anti's then we would have to prove every myth out there as wrong and we just don't have the time to do that.
Rather it is better to be led by the Spirit of God and to search the scriptures than to disprove all the ians and ites out there.
Also I read about believers and followers (of this way) in scripture, but I have never heard of the Trinitarians in scripture.
You must be a new group or a group that started after scripture was written.
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 15 2007,15:28) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 15 2007,08:54) Thanks WorshipingJesus, Where the anti-Trinitarians stumble is useing the carnal mind to consider spirtual things. It's like trying to start your car with a can opener.
“The intellectual factors of religion are important, but their overdevelopment is likewise sometimes very handicapping and embarrassing. Religion must continually labor under a paradoxical necessity: the necessity of making effective use of thought while at the same time discounting the spiritual serviceableness of all thinking.”
Colter
Quote Colter Very well put!
Blessings!
Interpretation:Hey this guy actually agrees with me, so it must be good.
BTW, we really are not called anti-trinitarians, we are followers of the way. We are also not anti-aliens either for that matter.
In fact it is really those who believe in aliens or the Trinity or whatever, that need to prove that what they have is true. Not the other way round.
E.g., Should we require that those who are anti-mormons prove that mormons are not correct, or is the onus really on mormons to prove that they are correct?
If the onus was on the anti's then we would have to prove every myth out there as wrong and we just don't have the time to do that.
Rather it is better to be led by the Spirit of God and to search the scriptures than to disprove all the ians and ites out there.
Also I read about believers and followers (of this way) in scripture, but I have never heard of the Trinitarians in scripture.
You must be a new group or a group that started after scripture was written.
t8 Do you know who Quintus Septimus Florens Tortullian is?Peace and Love
Quote (IM4Truth @ Dec. 15 2007,13:32) Oxy Where have you been. This is the first time since I have joined that I see you post. It sounds like that you too belief in the trinity. The Spirit is Gods Holy Spirit according to Ephesians 4:4-6 there is only one Spirit(Holy) one baptizm, one Lord(Jesus) one God and Father of all, who is above all and in us all.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Hi IM4Truth, yep, it's been a while since I've posted here. My poor head can only take so much of the brick walls lol.Yes, I believe in Father, Son and Holy Spirit as described in the Bible and as revealed by God to me when I asked Him. The answer I was shown can be found on my page http://www.all4god.net/trinity.htm
Blessings.
OxyQuote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 15 2007,20:47) Hi Oxy,
Did God reveal it in the bible too?
No trinity revelation there.
Funny that.
Hi Nick, it's been a while. Take the time to read my page on the subject if you will, with an open heart/mind.Nick, I am not stupid. I know the relationship I have with God and I know His voice. I would not dare post anything on the site unless I was confident of its origin. I know the responsibilty that comes with teaching and I am wise enough to not to want to cross God.
In all the post that I have seen of yours, you quote Scripture, which is not a bad thing to do, but I don't ever remember you saying that God told you something. I wonder why that is?
Quote (IM4Truth @ Dec. 15 2007,09:13) Quote (Colter @ Dec. 15 2007,02:24) Hi IM4truth, Is Jesus then a temporary God?
If all power and authority in heaven and on earth has been given to him then where did the Father go?
An acceptable answer to either of these questions is, I just don't know but I trust him and maybe one day I will find out.
Colter
Colter What a dumb question. I guess if you do not understand what God really is then you have to do what you and Worshipping Jesus do. Always learning but never understanding. God is a title they both have names. Look it up its in the O.T. Tell you the truth I am done with you guys you have gone round and around for how many pages?
Peace and Love Mrs.
Hi IM4TruthYou might be interested in reading my page http://www.all4god.net/power_shift.htm
It tells exactly what the Father is doing since handing the reigns over to Jesus.
Blessings
OxyOxy As far as I know what the trinity doctrine is, which BTW I taught to 4 of our children in the Catholic Church. I am well qualified as far a the trinity Doctrine is, I know what it is. You or I can not prove that in the Bible. But I can prove to you that the Father is greater then all. That is were the error is. The Trinity Doctrine teaches 3in1 all co-equal. A Mystery.
But scriptures says that the Father is greater then the Son, by Jesus own words.
Ephesians 4:4-6 is my favorite scripture it shows you that THERE IS ON SPIRIT, ONE BAPTISM, ON LORD JESUS cHRIST , ONE GOD AND FATHER WHO IS A B O V E A L L. AND THROUGH US ALL.
In Corith. Jesus in chapter15 gives the Kingdom which the Father had given to Jesus back to the Father so God can be all in all. God the Father excisted always while Jesus was created by God the Father He came forth from God it says. He emptied Himself and became man was crucified and died for us, so we can have life everlasting. We are under His Blood and have nothing to fear,. God the Father has given me to Jesus and Jesus has promised me that He is not going to loose me, on that I depend on. I will never dishonor our Heavenly Father because I worship the Son and the Spirit like the Father. The Spirit is Gods Spirit and Jesus is Lord of Lords and King of King during the Millinium , but He will never be our Heavenly Father who has always excisted. Just so you know We were in the Catholic Church till my Husband was 47 and I wasd 46 now we are 70 and 69 and know who God is and who Jesus is. Studying intensly for over 20 years has taught us a lot, and I know for 100% the the trinity is wrong. If you want to belief it or not that is up to our Heavenly Father if He opens your eyes, He has our big times and I am for ever T H A N K F U L FOR THAT.Peace and Love Mrs.
Unless something has changed their are no Trinitarians here!
The trinity doctrine states Three EQUAL persons in one.
WJ, Oxy, CB, Isiah1:18, and Tim have stated that the Father is GREATER than the Son. That being true the issue is who is the Holy Spirit? Is the Holy Spirit a third SEPARATE person?
How are we to baptize in the Holy Spirit's name?
Both the Father and Son have the same Holy Spirit that we have. This is what makes them one and should make us ONE.
Quote (Colter @ Dec. 15 2007,23:14) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 15 2007,15:28) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 15 2007,08:54) Thanks WorshipingJesus, Where the anti-Trinitarians stumble is useing the carnal mind to consider spirtual things. It's like trying to start your car with a can opener.
“The intellectual factors of religion are important, but their overdevelopment is likewise sometimes very handicapping and embarrassing. Religion must continually labor under a paradoxical necessity: the necessity of making effective use of thought while at the same time discounting the spiritual serviceableness of all thinking.”
Colter
Quote Colter Very well put!
Blessings!
Interpretation:Hey this guy actually agrees with me, so it must be good.
BTW, we really are not called anti-trinitarians, we are followers of the way. We are also not anti-aliens either for that matter.
In fact it is really those who believe in aliens or the Trinity or whatever, that need to prove that what they have is true. Not the other way round.
E.g., Should we require that those who are anti-mormons prove that mormons are not correct, or is the onus really on mormons to prove that they are correct?
If the onus was on the anti's then we would have to prove every myth out there as wrong and we just don't have the time to do that.
Rather it is better to be led by the Spirit of God and to search the scriptures than to disprove all the ians and ites out there.
Also I read about believers and followers (of this way) in scripture, but I have never heard of the Trinitarians in scripture.
You must be a new group or a group that started after scripture was written.
Hi t8,Anti Trinitarian is a phrase I coined as I have had a surprising number of encounters with people who have walked backwards out of the belief in Jesus' divinity into a peculiar “zone” somewhere between Judaism and the gospel.
A common theme is an anti Catholic chip on their shoulder, somehow the pre existence of the son of God as co creator gets thrown out with all the other Catholic traditions.
I say “anti” because more often then not you guys define yourself by you “opposition” to the Trinity. Your just waiting for someone to mention Trinity so you can vent all of your frustrations and demonstrate your superior intellectualism's of the scripture.
The Arien controversy was just the leaven of the Pharisees rearing it's ugly head in Christendom. Intellectuals “thinking to much”, driven by a demand to understand things which are, as yet, not understandable to the finite mind.
It is our habit as man to make religion a possession of mind rather then an experience of living, growing and loving. When a strong religion threatens to dominate man he attempts to institutionalize it, thus hopping to gain control of it. In this way religion becomes man made and man dominated.
Those who heard Jesus knew full well what he was saying about himself and used it in their trumped up trial against him. I don't think he would have faired any better if the anti Trinitarian had been in the same position.
Colter
Hi C,
Understanding truth for us is by study of scripture. Trinity is not found taught in scripture so to grasp it is neither relevant nor necessary. It complicates and confuses many folk.Service to “Mystery Babylon”is contrary to serving Christ.
Abhor those who go beyond the teachings of Christ.
2Jn 9Quote (kenrch @ Dec. 16 2007,00:54) Unless something has changed their are no Trinitarians here! The trinity doctrine states Three EQUAL persons in one.
WJ, Oxy, CB, Isiah1:18, and Tim have stated that the Father is GREATER than the Son. That being true the issue is who is the Holy Spirit? Is the Holy Spirit a third SEPARATE person?
How are we to baptize in the Holy Spirit's name?
Both the Father and Son have the same Holy Spirit that we have. This is what makes them one and should make us ONE.
Ahh Kenrich, I see you haven't lost your touch lol. I was wondering why, if the Holy Spirit isn't a “person”, why does Jesus refer to Him as such?Joh 16:13 However, when He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth. For He shall not speak of Himself, but whatever He hears, He shall speak. And He will announce to you things to come.
Joh 16:14 He will glorify Me, for He will receive of Mine and will announce it to you.So Jesus calls the Holy Spirit “Him” and the Holy Spirit guides, speaks, hears, announces, comforts, and a whole host of other things, all aspects of an identity rather than a power.
Quote (kenrch @ Dec. 16 2007,00:56) It's a Dove, NO! it's tongues of fire! No it's a person?!
Careful Kenrich.Mar 3:29 But he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never shall have forgiveness, but is liable to eternal condemnation.
Hi Nick, it's been a while. Take the time to read my page on the subject if you will, with an open heart/mind.
Nick, I am not stupid. I know the relationship I have with God and I know His voice. I would not dare post anything on the site unless I was confident of its origin. I know the responsibilty that comes with teaching and I am wise enough to not to want to cross God.
In all the post that I have seen of yours, you quote Scripture, which is not a bad thing to do, but I don't ever remember you saying that God told you something. I wonder why that is?
Oops, I'm repeating myself!
Seriously though Nick, I am not a scholar or particularly clever at finding truth in Scriptures. It's far too complicated for me, as it is with most people (hence the continual debates on so many topics!). I am dependant on the Holy Spirit to teach me, which He has done on certain topics through revelation and Scripture. It's one thing to have good Bible knowledge, but another to have a great teacher!
Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 16 2007,08:17) Quote (kenrch @ Dec. 16 2007,00:54) Unless something has changed their are no Trinitarians here! The trinity doctrine states Three EQUAL persons in one.
WJ, Oxy, CB, Isiah1:18, and Tim have stated that the Father is GREATER than the Son. That being true the issue is who is the Holy Spirit? Is the Holy Spirit a third SEPARATE person?
How are we to baptize in the Holy Spirit's name?
Both the Father and Son have the same Holy Spirit that we have. This is what makes them one and should make us ONE.
Ahh Kenrich, I see you haven't lost your touch lol. I was wondering why, if the Holy Spirit isn't a “person”, why does Jesus refer to Him as such?Joh 16:13 However, when He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth. For He shall not speak of Himself, but whatever He hears, He shall speak. And He will announce to you things to come.
Joh 16:14 He will glorify Me, for He will receive of Mine and will announce it to you.So Jesus calls the Holy Spirit “Him” and the Holy Spirit guides, speaks, hears, announces, comforts, and a whole host of other things, all aspects of an identity rather than a power.
Hi OXY,
Did Jesus say the Spirit of God was another person?
Then why would you teach what he did not?
Are you greater?Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 16 2007,08:17) Quote (kenrch @ Dec. 16 2007,00:54) Unless something has changed their are no Trinitarians here! The trinity doctrine states Three EQUAL persons in one.
WJ, Oxy, CB, Isiah1:18, and Tim have stated that the Father is GREATER than the Son. That being true the issue is who is the Holy Spirit? Is the Holy Spirit a third SEPARATE person?
How are we to baptize in the Holy Spirit's name?
Both the Father and Son have the same Holy Spirit that we have. This is what makes them one and should make us ONE.
Ahh Kenrich, I see you haven't lost your touch lol. I was wondering why, if the Holy Spirit isn't a “person”, why does Jesus refer to Him as such?Joh 16:13 However, when He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth. For He shall not speak of Himself, but whatever He hears, He shall speak. And He will announce to you things to come.
Joh 16:14 He will glorify Me, for He will receive of Mine and will announce it to you.So Jesus calls the Holy Spirit “Him” and the Holy Spirit guides, speaks, hears, announces, comforts, and a whole host of other things, all aspects of an identity rather than a power.
Hi OXY,
Did Jesus say the Spirit of God was another person?
Then why would you teach what he did not?
Are you greater that he is?Quote (IM4Truth @ Dec. 15 2007,21:46) Oxy As far as I know what the trinity doctrine is, which BTW I taught to 4 of our children in the Catholic Church. I am well qualified as far a the trinity Doctrine is, I know what it is. You or I can not prove that in the Bible. But I can prove to you that the Father is greater then all. That is were the error is. The Trinity Doctrine teaches 3in1 all co-equal. A Mystery.
But scriptures says that the Father is greater then the Son, by Jesus own words.
Ephesians 4:4-6 is my favorite scripture it shows you that THERE IS ON SPIRIT, ONE BAPTISM, ON LORD JESUS cHRIST , ONE GOD AND FATHER WHO IS A B O V E A L L. AND THROUGH US ALL.
In Corith. Jesus in chapter15 gives the Kingdom which the Father had given to Jesus back to the Father so God can be all in all. God the Father excisted always while Jesus was created by God the Father He came forth from God it says. He emptied Himself and became man was crucified and died for us, so we can have life everlasting. We are under His Blood and have nothing to fear,. God the Father has given me to Jesus and Jesus has promised me that He is not going to loose me, on that I depend on. I will never dishonor our Heavenly Father because I worship the Son and the Spirit like the Father. The Spirit is Gods Spirit and Jesus is Lord of Lords and King of King during the Millinium , but He will never be our Heavenly Father who has always excisted. Just so you know We were in the Catholic Church till my Husband was 47 and I wasd 46 now we are 70 and 69 and know who God is and who Jesus is. Studying intensly for over 20 years has taught us a lot, and I know for 100% the the trinity is wrong. If you want to belief it or not that is up to our Heavenly Father if He opens your eyes, He has our big times and I am for ever T H A N K F U L FOR THAT.Peace and Love Mrs.
Thanks for that. I know that the Father is above all. That is exactly what I teach as well.I don't particularly care for the word trinity because of the confusion it causes. It seems that for most trinity means 3 co-equal, but I cannot abide by that as it is contrary to Scripture, as you pointed out.
You say that the Father always existed and I agree. Scripture says that the Word was with God and was God in the beginning.. and later that the Word became flesh and was called Jesus, so the Father was not a father until the birth of His firstborn, who had existed with Him in the beginning.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 16 2007,08:26) Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 16 2007,08:17) Quote (kenrch @ Dec. 16 2007,00:54) Unless something has changed their are no Trinitarians here! The trinity doctrine states Three EQUAL persons in one.
WJ, Oxy, CB, Isiah1:18, and Tim have stated that the Father is GREATER than the Son. That being true the issue is who is the Holy Spirit? Is the Holy Spirit a third SEPARATE person?
How are we to baptize in the Holy Spirit's name?
Both the Father and Son have the same Holy Spirit that we have. This is what makes them one and should make us ONE.
Ahh Kenrich, I see you haven't lost your touch lol. I was wondering why, if the Holy Spirit isn't a “person”, why does Jesus refer to Him as such?Joh 16:13 However, when He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth. For He shall not speak of Himself, but whatever He hears, He shall speak. And He will announce to you things to come.
Joh 16:14 He will glorify Me, for He will receive of Mine and will announce it to you.So Jesus calls the Holy Spirit “Him” and the Holy Spirit guides, speaks, hears, announces, comforts, and a whole host of other things, all aspects of an identity rather than a power.
Hi OXY,
Did Jesus say the Spirit of God was another person?
Then why would you teach what he did not?
Are you greater that he is?
I was just quoting Scripture Nick. The same Scripture that you believe in.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 16 2007,08:35) Hi Oxy,
So you teach by implication from the words of Christ.
Is that wise?
Nick, I was just bolding a few words that are found in Scripture to reveal them to people who have apparently not yet seen them.If you look through probably every topic on this site people have bolded Scripture.
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