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Quote (Tim Kraft @ Oct. 27 2010,09:13) Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 27 2010,07:20) Quote (Tim Kraft @ Oct. 27 2010,02:44) Shimmer: Jesus did say not a jot or tittle of the law would change, UNTIL ALL WAS FULFILLED!!
Hi TK. Jesus did say this but also – untill heaven and earth pass away. Heaven and earth are still here and have not passed away yet.“For most certainly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the law, until all things are accomplished.” Matt 5:18
shimmer; Good question. I was reading that scripture about heaven and earth passing away and I thought to myself, there would be nothing left anywhere. If both heaven and earth go away there is nothing.Look up the greek word that was translated “pass” and odly enough you will find it can more accurately say, “heaven and earth will come together as one”. It is the awareness of the spirit of God being together in mankind that he was refering to.
In other words they will be under the law until Jesus comes and reveals the truth of God in us as from the beginning.If you don't yet see that Jesus accomplished the entire work of God you may be more comfortable under the law. If you believe you are still under the law you best start sacrificing unto God!
If the sacrifice is completed then so is the law! TK
I will intervene here and say to you, First we are under the new Covenant and not the old. The Law was magnified ad we now have much more then the Ten Commandments which BTW was the Old Covenant,. And the Heaven and Earth as it is today will be the Lake of Fire. Scripture says that this earth is preserved for the destruction of the wicked. Then God Himself will come down with the New Jerusalem and we will have a new Heaven and New Earth….Rev 21:1 ¶ And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God.
OPeace and Love Irene
Hi Shimmer:
I believe that I read that you liked the Seventh Day Adventists except for the fact that they demand a tithe of their congregation.
If they demand a tithe of course that is wrong, tithing is a guidline for giving. It is not a law. If we give grudgingly or out of necessity, God does not accept that kind of giving. We should want to give to the work of the ministry, but anything that we do in obedience to God is done out of love for him, and not because someone demands something of us.
God has promised to pour out a blessing on His people if they tithe, and there is a scripture stating that a man is robbing God if he does not tithe in the OT. I do tithe my income because I want to do that and God has blessed me in many ways. If I could give more, I would do that also, and maybe He will bless me so that I can.
If a man gives anything, he must first have a source from which to give, and then if he gives, he gives from what he has out of a willing heart.
God does not force anyone do anything.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Oct. 27 2010,10:05) Hi Shimmer: I believe that I read that you liked the Seventh Day Adventists except for the fact that they demand a tithe of their congregation.
If they demand a tithe of course that is wrong, tithing is a guidline for giving. It is not a law. If we give grudgingly or out of necessity, God does not accept that kind of giving. We should want to give to the work of the ministry, but anything that we do in obedience to God is done out of love for him, and not because someone demands something of us.
God has promised to pour out a blessing on His people if they tithe, and there is a scripture stating that a man is robbing God if he does not tithe in the OT. I do tithe my income because I want to do that and God has blessed me in many ways. If I could give more, I would do that also, and maybe He will bless me so that I can.
If a man gives anything, he must first have a source from which to give, and then if he gives, he gives from what he has out of a willing heart.
God does not force anyone do anything.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,I agree. I also would add that giving to others or to good causes other than church would be counted in the tithe. In other words, if I knew someone in bad straits or adopted a child in ccf etc. etc. then imo that would be included im my tithe, and if my church felt shorted well tuff. I also feel blessed by it. It says somewhere in scriptures to try God in that, and he would rain down blessings. I did and he did. Peace=Mark
Quote (Tim Kraft @ Oct. 26 2010,01:43) Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 25 2010,23:51) Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 24 2010,20:31) Irene, Mark, I thought Catholics were Amillenial in their beliefs ? Amillenial is…Now is the millenium, now is when the Gospel is taken through the earth, now is when the full power of Satan is limited, now is the time when people are being saved, 'thousands' of years. Satan will soon be let loose for a short time, to decieve the whole world.
Thats what you get when you hear the words of Jesus, and others,, “This Good News of the Kingdom will be preached in the whole world for a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come” That is what's happening today…Then the end will come. This is in revelations, but revelations is a symbolic book which is hard to understand.
What is the point in having a thousand year millenium, as you see it, exactly ?
What I believe is most do not take into account the scriptur you quoted Shimmer 2 peter 3v8 “This point must not be overlooked, dear friends. In the lords eyes, one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years are as a day” Also as you mention, Revalations are symbolic truths that IMO no mortal man has complete understanding of. I do agree with what TK says about being in a state of “grace” after accepting Jesus into your life, but what I do not understand until God shows me is the differance between “forgiven”, “complete” which is what Jesus believing humans are imo, and “perfect”. I still make mistakes, so does that mean I am not in union with him? Is there anyone that will claim that they are perfect and never makes mistakes? Peace-Mark
Mikeangel/Mark: There is no time to measure in spirit/eternal truth. When truth comes, that is the start, it never stops.
When the day of the lord came with Jesus, now it comes tous through light, that is the truth, if you accept, it is forever.
Like a ring of truth with no end, given by Jesus, we step into the ring at various points of knowledge and understanding and begin our trek unto God.Eternal truth came, is here, is coming and will come, forever!
We are fighting a mental war for truth. The adversary against us are preachers, teachers, friends, neighbors, brothers and sisters that don't yet know the truth. From these well meaning people yet misguided people come darkness to cover the light.
We are all forgiven. We are all cleansed by the words of Jesus from the father. We are ordained for the faith works of God to administer to any or all who will recieve. We have the father, son, holy spirit, and the kingdom of God within ready to produce the fruit of God. Goodness, kindness, mercy, compassion, perfection, forgiveness, sinlessness, worthiness etc.!
This is what the works of Jesus did for mankind. Its done, finished, completed. There is nothing for Jesus to come back physically to do that he hasn't already done. Now its up to us to take the free gift from God and share with others.
God made us perfect. Would we seat ourselves above God and say we are not perfect? God said in acts, what God hath cleansed call not unclean. Perfection is not in what you know, or what you see, or how much you do or help or anything else.
If you don't have an answer for what perfection is then I think I would just agree with God almighty. He can't lie because whatever he says goes!!
One more thing. How can you make a mistake where there are no rules or laws? If you don't like a choice you made make another choice. PEOPLE PLEASE STOP CONDEMNING YOURSELVES OR OTHERS. Why make a law to yourself where a law does not exist?? Blessings to all, TK
Tim,Your a real deep thinker. You remind me of Paul in the way you go waaaay out there. I think I understand what you are saying, that unless you know something is a sin it isn't. You are also saying that once Jesus died we believers aren't bound to death and sin pre-Jesus, I got that . But I still can't wrap my head around it, because Jesus said to watch out for bad things and false teachers and false Prophets, He didn't say “once I'm sacrificed and come back at pentacost you will be good to go” IMO he wanted us to know how much we need his mercy…… Answer this friend—- Is Tim Kraft a perfect person who never sins or makes any mistakes? Since it is written that anyone who fears is not perfect in love, If I brought my 9mm up to you and you not knowing me and I held it to your temple with shaking hands, are you telling me you wouldn't be concerned? This would be me=
PeaceQuote (mikeangel @ Oct. 27 2010,11:30) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 27 2010,10:05) Hi Shimmer: I believe that I read that you liked the Seventh Day Adventists except for the fact that they demand a tithe of their congregation.
If they demand a tithe of course that is wrong, tithing is a guidline for giving. It is not a law. If we give grudgingly or out of necessity, God does not accept that kind of giving. We should want to give to the work of the ministry, but anything that we do in obedience to God is done out of love for him, and not because someone demands something of us.
God has promised to pour out a blessing on His people if they tithe, and there is a scripture stating that a man is robbing God if he does not tithe in the OT. I do tithe my income because I want to do that and God has blessed me in many ways. If I could give more, I would do that also, and maybe He will bless me so that I can.
If a man gives anything, he must first have a source from which to give, and then if he gives, he gives from what he has out of a willing heart.
God does not force anyone do anything.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,I agree. I also would add that giving to others or to good causes other than church would be counted in the tithe. In other words, if I knew someone in bad straits or adopted a child in ccf etc. etc. then imo that would be included im my tithe, and if my church felt shorted well tuff. I also feel blessed by it. It says somewhere in scriptures to try God in that, and he would rain down blessings. I did and he did. Peace=Mark
Hi Mike:The church where my wife and I currently worship have a benevolence fund to which I give my tithe at present because I cannot support some of the doctrines that the church teaches. This fund is used to help the needy in our congregation as well as helping in situations such as the earthquake in Haiti or hurricane Katrina.
We are stewards of whatever the Lord has put in our possession, and we are free to do with it what we choose.
Helping those in need is definetly our responsibility as Christians when we have the means to do it.
Love in Christ,
MartyHi all,
I have found giving with a heart because you feel moved to, has more meaning than giving because you feel you HAVE to. I know of one person who will give to the church (RCC) but walk past a man in the street asking for money for the homeless. The person will have excuses why not, and say “I pray for them, it's more longer lasting than just giving them money…he could be just pretending, they do that overseas”, realise this is a place where theres not many beggers at all, you probably walk past two a year. I pointed out scripture say's that is wrong.
“If a brother or sister may be naked, and may be destitute of the daily food, and any one of you may say to them, `Depart ye in peace, be warmed, and be filled,' and may not give to them the things needful for the body, what [is] the profit? so also the faith, if it may not have works, is dead by itself.”
I had a friend who gave even though he himself went without, he has gone without food to feed a family, he has gone cold to give a family warmth.
Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 28 2010,08:25) Hi all, I have found giving with a heart because you feel moved to, has more meaning than giving because you feel you HAVE to. I know of one person who will give to the church (RCC) but walk past a man in the street asking for money for the homeless. The person will have excuses why not, and say “I pray for them, it's more longer lasting than just giving them money…he could be just pretending, they do that overseas”, realise this is a place where theres not many beggers at all, you probably walk past two a year. I pointed out scripture say's that is wrong.
“If a brother or sister may be naked, and may be destitute of the daily food, and any one of you may say to them, `Depart ye in peace, be warmed, and be filled,' and may not give to them the things needful for the body, what [is] the profit? so also the faith, if it may not have works, is dead by itself.”
I had a friend who gave even though he himself went without, he has gone without food to feed a family, he has gone cold to give a family warmth.
I use to collect money for the mentally retarded once a year doing the “totsie roll” drive, usually in front of wal- mart etc. . What used to really suprise me every time is how much more poor people gave than the ones that oviously had money. What magnified that for me was once I did it on a Sunday. Believe this or not, most of the ones in church clothes and espesially the ones in real nice cars didn't give squat. Brings to mind “the first will be last and the last will be first” also ” those who exalt themselves will be humbled and those who humble themselves will be exalted” PeaceQuote (mikeangel @ Oct. 27 2010,11:46) Quote (Tim Kraft @ Oct. 26 2010,01:43) Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 25 2010,23:51) Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 24 2010,20:31) Irene, Mark, I thought Catholics were Amillenial in their beliefs ? Amillenial is…Now is the millenium, now is when the Gospel is taken through the earth, now is when the full power of Satan is limited, now is the time when people are being saved, 'thousands' of years. Satan will soon be let loose for a short time, to decieve the whole world.
Thats what you get when you hear the words of Jesus, and others,, “This Good News of the Kingdom will be preached in the whole world for a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come” That is what's happening today…Then the end will come. This is in revelations, but revelations is a symbolic book which is hard to understand.
What is the point in having a thousand year millenium, as you see it, exactly ?
What I believe is most do not take into account the scriptur you quoted Shimmer 2 peter 3v8 “This point must not be overlooked, dear friends. In the lords eyes, one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years are as a day” Also as you mention, Revalations are symbolic truths that IMO no mortal man has complete understanding of. I do agree with what TK says about being in a state of “grace” after accepting Jesus into your life, but what I do not understand until God shows me is the differance between “forgiven”, “complete” which is what Jesus believing humans are imo, and “perfect”. I still make mistakes, so does that mean I am not in union with him? Is there anyone that will claim that they are perfect and never makes mistakes? Peace-Mark
Mikeangel/Mark: There is no time to measure in spirit/eternal truth. When truth comes, that is the start, it never stops.
When the day of the lord came with Jesus, now it comes tous through light, that is the truth, if you accept, it is forever.
Like a ring of truth with no end, given by Jesus, we step into the ring at various points of knowledge and understanding and begin our trek unto God.Eternal truth came, is here, is coming and will come, forever!
We are fighting a mental war for truth. The adversary against us are preachers, teachers, friends, neighbors, brothers and sisters that don't yet know the truth. From these well meaning people yet misguided people come darkness to cover the light.
We are all forgiven. We are all cleansed by the words of Jesus from the father. We are ordained for the faith works of God to administer to any or all who will recieve. We have the father, son, holy spirit, and the kingdom of God within ready to produce the fruit of God. Goodness, kindness, mercy, compassion, perfection, forgiveness, sinlessness, worthiness etc.!
This is what the works of Jesus did for mankind. Its done, finished, completed. There is nothing for Jesus to come back physically to do that he hasn't already done. Now its up to us to take the free gift from God and share with others.
God made us perfect. Would we seat ourselves above God and say we are not perfect? God said in acts, what God hath cleansed call not unclean. Perfection is not in what you know, or what you see, or how much you do or help or anything else.
If you don't have an answer for what perfection is then I think I would just agree with God almighty. He can't lie because whatever he says goes!!
One more thing. How can you make a mistake where there are no rules or laws? If you don't like a choice you made make another choice. PEOPLE PLEASE STOP CONDEMNING YOURSELVES OR OTHERS. Why make a law to yourself where a law does not exist?? Blessings to all, TK
Tim,Your a real deep thinker. You remind me of Paul in the way you go waaaay out there. I think I understand what you are saying, that unless you know something is a sin it isn't. You are also saying that once Jesus died we believers aren't bound to death and sin pre-Jesus, I got that . But I still can't wrap my head around it, because Jesus said to watch out for bad things and false teachers and false Prophets, He didn't say “once I'm sacrificed and come back at pentacost you will be good to go” IMO he wanted us to know how much we need his mercy…… Answer this friend—- Is Tim Kraft a perfect person who never sins or makes any mistakes? Since it is written that anyone who fears is not perfect in love, If I brought my 9mm up to you and you not knowing me and I held it to your temple with shaking hands, are you telling me you wouldn't be concerned? This would be me=
Peace
“A wise man knows that he doesn't, a fool knows that he does”
Mark, we just don't know who is righteous in given or not. How do we know just because they have on their backs nice cloths, that they don't give somewhere else? I buy nice cloths at a Triftstore. You would not tell the difference where I bought them. I got 4 Blouses and one pair of Slacks and payed 20 dollars for them…. So I believe we should not judge another, just becasuse they have on nice cloths……IMO Also the people who do have money would not go shopping at Wal-Mart….
Peace and Love IreneIrene, You would have to be there. No, I'm not judgeing, thats up to God as we discussed before. My observetion was along the lines of what shimmer noticed, that those who seemingly cannot afford it are the ones who give the most. Those days collecting, so often someone would drive up in a nice, washed and waxed expensive car and come up wearing nice clothes and jewelry etc. and not even give you the time of day, yet someone else comes up driving a car on its last leg wearing tattered clothes and give out of thier want. To me it shows where thier hearts are, eximplifying their heart and where it is, again those who exalt themselves……….. Peace
Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 28 2010,13:31) I use to collect money for the mentally retarded once a year doing the “totsie roll” drive, usually in front of wal- mart etc. . What used to really suprise me every time is how much more poor people gave than the ones that oviously had money. What magnified that for me was once I did it on a Sunday. Believe this or not, most of the ones in church clothes and espesially the ones in real nice cars didn't give squat. Brings to mind “the first will be last and the last will be first” also ” those who exalt themselves will be humbled and those who humble themselves will be exalted” Peace
Hi Mark, God knows whats in our hearts,We are judged by what we do, but there are many who cant do anything, hmmmm, what will God do ? Hearts Mark. What is in the heart,
Someone could donate alot of money… to look good, to get to heaven, to avoid hell?
Someone else could be saddened by suffering, crying in their heart, WANTING to give what they can, but something may stop them. God knows.
“For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and is able to discern the thoughts and intentions of the heart.”
Hope that makes sense I'm really tired, it's night here,
Quote (JustAskin @ Oct. 28 2010,11:16) Well said, Shimmer. The true Spirit speaks through you.
Thanks JA.Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 28 2010,08:25) Hi all, I have found giving with a heart because you feel moved to, has more meaning than giving because you feel you HAVE to. I know of one person who will give to the church (RCC) but walk past a man in the street asking for money for the homeless. The person will have excuses why not, and say “I pray for them, it's more longer lasting than just giving them money…he could be just pretending, they do that overseas”, realise this is a place where theres not many beggers at all, you probably walk past two a year. I pointed out scripture say's that is wrong.
“If a brother or sister may be naked, and may be destitute of the daily food, and any one of you may say to them, `Depart ye in peace, be warmed, and be filled,' and may not give to them the things needful for the body, what [is] the profit? so also the faith, if it may not have works, is dead by itself.”
I had a friend who gave even though he himself went without, he has gone without food to feed a family, he has gone cold to give a family warmth.
Shimmer,, also this is a problem….. In my city there are many asking for handouts. They stand at busy intersections and hold sings saying “will work for food” You pass them all the time. I try giving them some change if I am stopped in front of them, but if I have to hold up traffic I do not. Also, there are many people here who are crack cocaine addicted, who have many convinceing reasons on why they have to get 10$. One guy hit me up at this certain corner holding a gas can needing to get his wife to the hospital, and did the same thing the next day at the same place, not even recognising me. I still give to the ones I know, like the black guy living behind the paint store. He needs it. He is crazy. He yells all day, an dwhen you walk up to him and give him something he softly says “thank you” and when you walk away he goes back to yelling…….. What I am having a hard time dealing with is when I got the feeling and God showed me in scriptures where the end can't be far away, I wanted to help in somekind of outreach ministry, and I found it serving the homeless at a episcopal church downtown breakfast on Sun morning. They have a short service and breakfast, and it's the only church some of them get. What is getting to me is some of them come in with the most horrible of attitudes. I know some of them can't help it, but I am trying not to get jaded when some of them complain about the food etc. etc. I always wondered why some social workers have attitudes and now I know, I'm trying to focus on the good ones and leave the rest up to God. Also, money coveting churchgoers are in most churches imo.Anyway, PeaceQuote (mikeangel @ Oct. 27 2010,11:46) Quote (Tim Kraft @ Oct. 26 2010,01:43) Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 25 2010,23:51) Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 24 2010,20:31) Irene, Mark, I thought Catholics were Amillenial in their beliefs ? Amillenial is…Now is the millenium, now is when the Gospel is taken through the earth, now is when the full power of Satan is limited, now is the time when people are being saved, 'thousands' of years. Satan will soon be let loose for a short time, to decieve the whole world.
Thats what you get when you hear the words of Jesus, and others,, “This Good News of the Kingdom will be preached in the whole world for a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come” That is what's happening today…Then the end will come. This is in revelations, but revelations is a symbolic book which is hard to understand.
What is the point in having a thousand year millenium, as you see it, exactly ?
What I believe is most do not take into account the scriptur you quoted Shimmer 2 peter 3v8 “This point must not be overlooked, dear friends. In the lords eyes, one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years are as a day” Also as you mention, Revalations are symbolic truths that IMO no mortal man has complete understanding of. I do agree with what TK says about being in a state of “grace” after accepting Jesus into your life, but what I do not understand until God shows me is the differance between “forgiven”, “complete” which is what Jesus believing humans are imo, and “perfect”. I still make mistakes, so does that mean I am not in union with him? Is there anyone that will claim that they are perfect and never makes mistakes? Peace-Mark
Mikeangel/Mark: There is no time to measure in spirit/eternal truth. When truth comes, that is the start, it never stops.
When the day of the lord came with Jesus, now it comes tous through light, that is the truth, if you accept, it is forever.
Like a ring of truth with no end, given by Jesus, we step into the ring at various points of knowledge and understanding and begin our trek unto God.Eternal truth came, is here, is coming and will come, forever!
We are fighting a mental war for truth. The adversary against us are preachers, teachers, friends, neighbors, brothers and sisters that don't yet know the truth. From these well meaning people yet misguided people come darkness to cover the light.
We are all forgiven. We are all cleansed by the words of Jesus from the father. We are ordained for the faith works of God to administer to any or all who will recieve. We have the father, son, holy spirit, and the kingdom of God within ready to produce the fruit of God. Goodness, kindness, mercy, compassion, perfection, forgiveness, sinlessness, worthiness etc.!
This is what the works of Jesus did for mankind. Its done, finished, completed. There is nothing for Jesus to come back physically to do that he hasn't already done. Now its up to us to take the free gift from God and share with others.
God made us perfect. Would we seat ourselves above God and say we are not perfect? God said in acts, what God hath cleansed call not unclean. Perfection is not in what you know, or what you see, or how much you do or help or anything else.
If you don't have an answer for what perfection is then I think I would just agree with God almighty. He can't lie because whatever he says goes!!
One more thing. How can you make a mistake where there are no rules or laws? If you don't like a choice you made make another choice. PEOPLE PLEASE STOP CONDEMNING YOURSELVES OR OTHERS. Why make a law to yourself where a law does not exist?? Blessings to all, TK
Tim,Your a real deep thinker. You remind me of Paul in the way you go waaaay out there. I think I understand what you are saying, that unless you know something is a sin it isn't. You are also saying that once Jesus died we believers aren't bound to death and sin pre-Jesus, I got that . But I still can't wrap my head around it, because Jesus said to watch out for bad things and false teachers and false Prophets, He didn't say “once I'm sacrificed and come back at pentacost you will be good to go” IMO he wanted us to know how much we need his mercy…… Answer this friend—- Is Tim Kraft a perfect person who never sins or makes any mistakes? Since it is written that anyone who fears is not perfect in love, If I brought my 9mm up to you and you not knowing me and I held it to your temple with shaking hands, are you telling me you wouldn't be concerned? This would be me=
Peace
The most important thing to share with you is the difference between this physical world and the spirit world. Jesus/God are mind, thoughts, dreams, visions, thinking, contemplating,spirit world. Jesus came to teach us spirit/God/the true way to the father.Everything before Jesus was not the true way. Even if the questions ask to Jesus were of an earthly content, Jesus answered in reference to truth about
God. He taught the Kingdom of God not how to live or what to do in spirit which will affect life in the physical.
This physical life belongs to mankind in all of its fulness. You are a god of yourself, your own kingdom, in this realm. You have been given that truth by Jesus if you follow only Jesus, carefully and accept his words. You learn
from him by both hearing him and by his example of ability.
The war in our minds that began with Adam is choosing either good or evil for your life. There was perfection before Adamchose to partake of evil. When evil came judgment came and sin along with judgment. Right and Wrong, good and evil.
Before that choice there was just God! Perfection, good only,peace and love etc.! God is everywhere, where is God not?
Since God is everywhere, evil is a lie! In truth there is only God and mans created ideas of evil. There is no measurable energy in evil. Life is measurable, living energy, light. Evil onlyexists as an illusion created in the mind of man and projected into the earth realm by his power annointed mind. Life/God is truth, death/evil is a believed illusion by a man. Then the man began to use his mind power to try to attempt
to return to God who never left him in the first place. Where would he go, he's everywhere, except a human mind that believes he is separated from God for any reason!! Now you
have the entry of religion(mans created thoughts to appease God) judgment as to some believed form of right and wrong, and sin for doing something or feeling against someone else that one have done wrong. Error beliefs beginning to block the truth, light, love of God from the minds of men!
I'll stop, its to much. It took me 32 years to form my truth. I can't put it on this post. I don't think anyone accepts it anyway. Y
our last question was about the gun at my head.Perfect love casts out fear of death. Just like when Paul got bitten by the viper on the island and nothing happened. The gun wouldn't fire! Perfection starts with clearing out of our minds any or all thoughts of imperfection. What God has cleansed let no man call unclean. God bless your questions, TK
Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 28 2010,20:54) Irene, You would have to be there. No, I'm not judgeing, thats up to God as we discussed before. My observetion was along the lines of what shimmer noticed, that those who seemingly cannot afford it are the ones who give the most. Those days collecting, so often someone would drive up in a nice, washed and waxed expensive car and come up wearing nice clothes and jewelry etc. and not even give you the time of day, yet someone else comes up driving a car on its last leg wearing tattered clothes and give out of thier want. To me it shows where thier hearts are, eximplifying their heart and where it is, again those who exalt themselves……….. Peace
Mark! I don't know where you live, but here in Cincinnati, nobody drives a super duper car and goes shopping at Wal-Mart. That is the point I was making. We really don;t know what is in anyone's hearts. Only God knows, that is the point I was trying to make….When society in general are broke, and some even have to file Bankrupt, even if they have a good car, looking around here, no. And look at all the Foreclosures on those beautiful New Homes…. The Banks are going out of Business etc. We are in a lot of trouble her in America. Listen to Glenn Beck…..
Peace and love IreneMark! I just read the post you made to shimmer. That is another problem. Addicting in this Country is running wild. And who knows when you give them Money what they do with it. My guess is buy more drugs. We have good programs to help those that are in need. Nobody should go hungry….I seen some on the highways young men, asking for money. And then I see signs at Mic. Donald's “Help Wanted.” So why can't they work? What they don't want to is the wages they get at such places… Yet the Mexicans have a Job…….They will work…….. We help Family and that is what is more important then to give to those that are lazy……..Peace and Love Irene
Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 28 2010,23:19) Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 28 2010,08:25) Hi all, I have found giving with a heart because you feel moved to, has more meaning than giving because you feel you HAVE to. I know of one person who will give to the church (RCC) but walk past a man in the street asking for money for the homeless. The person will have excuses why not, and say “I pray for them, it's more longer lasting than just giving them money…he could be just pretending, they do that overseas”, realise this is a place where theres not many beggers at all, you probably walk past two a year. I pointed out scripture say's that is wrong.
“If a brother or sister may be naked, and may be destitute of the daily food, and any one of you may say to them, `Depart ye in peace, be warmed, and be filled,' and may not give to them the things needful for the body, what [is] the profit? so also the faith, if it may not have works, is dead by itself.”
I had a friend who gave even though he himself went without, he has gone without food to feed a family, he has gone cold to give a family warmth.
Shimmer,, also this is a problem….. In my city there are many asking for handouts. They stand at busy intersections and hold sings saying “will work for food” You pass them all the time. I try giving them some change if I am stopped in front of them, but if I have to hold up traffic I do not. Also, there are many people here who are crack cocaine addicted, who have many convinceing reasons on why they have to get 10$. One guy hit me up at this certain corner holding a gas can needing to get his wife to the hospital, and did the same thing the next day at the same place, not even recognising me. I still give to the ones I know, like the black guy living behind the paint store. He needs it. He is crazy. He yells all day, an dwhen you walk up to him and give him something he softly says “thank you” and when you walk away he goes back to yelling…….. What I am having a hard time dealing with is when I got the feeling and God showed me in scriptures where the end can't be far away, I wanted to help in somekind of outreach ministry, and I found it serving the homeless at a episcopal church downtown breakfast on Sun morning. They have a short service and breakfast, and it's the only church some of them get. What is getting to me is some of them come in with the most horrible of attitudes. I know some of them can't help it, but I am trying not to get jaded when some of them complain about the food etc. etc. I always wondered why some social workers have attitudes and now I know, I'm trying to focus on the good ones and leave the rest up to God. Also, money coveting churchgoers are in most churches imo.Anyway, Peace
Mark, what you do is good. God will see that.In the Sheppard of Hermas it says,
“Practise goodness; and from the rewards of your labours, which God gives you, give to all the needy in simplicity, not hesitating as to whom you are to give or not to give. Give to all, for God wishes His gifts to be shared amongst all. They who receive, will render an account to God why and for what they have received. For the afflicted who receive will not be condemned, but they who receive on false pretences will suffer punishment. He, then, who gives is guiltless. For as he received from the Lord, so has he accomplished his service in simplicity, not hesitating as to whom he should give and to whom he should not give. This service, then, if accomplished in simplicity, is glorious with God.”
I also get drawn to some people, I see them, I just want to understand them, and help them. Always people in town.
A true/truth teacher of the word of God, given through Jesus, will teach only the fruit of the spirit of life. The spirit of life or love always builds up, protects, heals, creates good, feels good, excites, stimulates, drives more loving energy to give out to all at all times.
A false teacher with his own illusion of truth of God, will teach the fruit of evil. The spirit(illusion words)of evil or death, always destroys, breaks down the hearor, creates fear, worry, selflessness, unworthy feelings, unrighteousness, sinful, depressive words that suck the life out of the hearors.
You will know the teacher by the fruit produced through their words. Good tree/good fruit….Bad tree/rotten fruit! IMO, God blesses all, TK
Quote (Tim Kraft @ Oct. 28 2010,21:54) Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 27 2010,11:46) Quote (Tim Kraft @ Oct. 26 2010,01:43) Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 25 2010,23:51) Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 24 2010,20:31) Irene, Mark, I thought Catholics were Amillenial in their beliefs ? Amillenial is…Now is the millenium, now is when the Gospel is taken through the earth, now is when the full power of Satan is limited, now is the time when people are being saved, 'thousands' of years. Satan will soon be let loose for a short time, to decieve the whole world.
Thats what you get when you hear the words of Jesus, and others,, “This Good News of the Kingdom will be preached in the whole world for a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come” That is what's happening today…Then the end will come. This is in revelations, but revelations is a symbolic book which is hard to understand.
What is the point in having a thousand year millenium, as you see it, exactly ?
What I believe is most do not take into account the scriptur you quoted Shimmer 2 peter 3v8 “This point must not be overlooked, dear friends. In the lords eyes, one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years are as a day” Also as you mention, Revalations are symbolic truths that IMO no mortal man has complete understanding of. I do agree with what TK says about being in a state of “grace” after accepting Jesus into your life, but what I do not understand until God shows me is the differance between “forgiven”, “complete” which is what Jesus believing humans are imo, and “perfect”. I still make mistakes, so does that mean I am not in union with him? Is there anyone that will claim that they are perfect and never makes mistakes? Peace-Mark
Mikeangel/Mark: There is no time to measure in spirit/eternal truth. When truth comes, that is the start, it never stops.
When the day of the lord came with Jesus, now it comes tous through light, that is the truth, if you accept, it is forever.
Like a ring of truth with no end, given by Jesus, we step into the ring at various points of knowledge and understanding and begin our trek unto God.Eternal truth came, is here, is coming and will come, forever!
We are fighting a mental war for truth. The adversary against us are preachers, teachers, friends, neighbors, brothers and sisters that don't yet know the truth. From these well meaning people yet misguided people come darkness to cover the light.
We are all forgiven. We are all cleansed by the words of Jesus from the father. We are ordained for the faith works of God to administer to any or all who will recieve. We have the father, son, holy spirit, and the kingdom of God within ready to produce the fruit of God. Goodness, kindness, mercy, compassion, perfection, forgiveness, sinlessness, worthiness etc.!
This is what the works of Jesus did for mankind. Its done, finished, completed. There is nothing for Jesus to come back physically to do that he hasn't already done. Now its up to us to take the free gift from God and share with others.
God made us perfect. Would we seat ourselves above God and say we are not perfect? God said in acts, what God hath cleansed call not unclean. Perfection is not in what you know, or what you see, or how much you do or help or anything else.
If you don't have an answer for what perfection is then I think I would just agree with God almighty. He can't lie because whatever he says goes!!
One more thing. How can you make a mistake where there are no rules or laws? If you don't like a choice you made make another choice. PEOPLE PLEASE STOP CONDEMNING YOURSELVES OR OTHERS. Why make a law to yourself where a law does not exist?? Blessings to all, TK
Tim,Your a real deep thinker. You remind me of Paul in the way you go waaaay out there. I think I understand what you are saying, that unless you know something is a sin it isn't. You are also saying that once Jesus died we believers aren't bound to death and sin pre-Jesus, I got that . But I still can't wrap my head around it, because Jesus said to watch out for bad things and false teachers and false Prophets, He didn't say “once I'm sacrificed and come back at pentacost you will be good to go” IMO he wanted us to know how much we need his mercy…… Answer this friend—- Is Tim Kraft a perfect person who never sins or makes any mistakes? Since it is written that anyone who fears is not perfect in love, If I brought my 9mm up to you and you not knowing me and I held it to your temple with shaking hands, are you telling me you wouldn't be concerned? This would be me=
Peace
The most important thing to share with you is the difference between this physical world and the spirit world. Jesus/God are mind, thoughts, dreams, visions, thinking, contemplating,spirit world. Jesus came to teach us spirit/God/the true way to the father.Everything before Jesus was not the true way. Even if the questions ask to Jesus were of an earthly content, Jesus answered in reference to truth about
God. He taught the Kingdom of God not how to live or what to do in spirit which will affect life in the physical.
This physical life belongs to mankind in all of its fulness. You are a god of yourself, your own kingdom, in this realm. You have been given that truth by Jesus if you follow only Jesus, carefully and accept his words. You learn
from him by both hearing him and by his example of ability.
The war in our minds that began with Adam is choosing either good or evil for your life. There was perfection before Adamchose to partake of evil. When evil came judgment came and sin along with judgment. Right and Wrong, good and evil.
Before that choice there was just God! Perfection, good only,peace and love etc.! God is everywhere, where is God not?
Since God is everywhere, evil is a lie! In truth there is only God and mans created ideas of evil. There is no measurable energy in evil. Life is measurable, living energy, light. Evil onlyexists as an illusion created in the mind of man and projected into the earth realm by his power annointed mind. Life/God is truth, death/evil is a believed illusion by a man. Then the man began to use his mind power to try to attempt
to return to God who never left him in the first place. Where would he go, he's everywhere, except a human mind that believes he is separated from God for any reason!! Now you
have the entry of religion(mans created thoughts to appease God) judgment as to some believed form of right and wrong, and sin for doing something or feeling against someone else that one have done wrong. Error beliefs beginning to block the truth, ligh
t, love of God from the minds of men!I'll stop, its to much. It took me 32 years to form my truth. I can't put it on this post. I don't think anyone accepts it anyway. Your last question was about the gun at my head.
Perfect love casts out fear of death. Just like when Paul got bitten by the viper on the island and nothing happened. The gun wouldn't fire! Perfection starts with clearing out of our minds any or all thoughts of imperfection. What God has cleansed let no man call unclean. God bless your questions, TK
Brother Tim,I am starting to see your point. I agree with 90% of what you say. In that post, I was suprised when it said”You are a god of yourself, your own kingdom, in this realm. You have been given that truth by Jesus if you follow only Jesus”, Yet when I thought about it I recall when the pharasees were quedtioning Jesus and he quoted the scripture where it was written “you are Gods”, and I know that doubt and deception are plageing our minds, as you say. I know and can tell these are things you have learned from many hours of scripture and contemplation and prayer. And as I know “what father would hand a son a snake when he ask for a fish?” I have many hours of the same, plus my life experiences. I know that I can handle part of what you say, yet I think that true total “doubtlessness” and total union with God is not possible in this realm in my understanding. If you did then you could literally do the things that Jesus did-give sight to the blind(literally and figeratively) make the cripples walk etc. If you do get to that point, as you seem to be much further than I, I need you to come to Memphis and ride up to the group home where my retarded little sister is and heal her. Please don't take that as sarcasm, it isn't. I just do not think that IMO it is possible with us. I think it is that we Jesus following and watching people are less than gods until God rewards us and transforms us from the flesh to the spirit, and then “no eye has ever seen what God has ready for those who love him”.
I also agree with what you say about how religions have placed themselves at the center of the equasion, but as I have said I think God values those in church who truely love him with a sincere heart. I think a long time ago when I first started posting on here I discussed with you on how I didn't understand how you thought that all religions were bad, and doing anything in a church was wrong.Yes, rituals that are not scriptureally mandated are wrong. Yes, the apparent hypocracy is evil. But absolutely, the sprit of God in every true believer is perfect, and there are more proportionatly in church then there are , say, at a football game. I don't get beer spilled on my head at church (well at least not yet). I still will go and tell them what they are doing wrong until they agree with me or throw me out.
My truth that I came to, is that God is not going to let this go on much longer, The things he stated in scripture to watch for are unfolding in front of our eyes. To me , the biggest slap in Gods face is the whole world turning to rock-and -roll, and you know whats the start of that. The blasphemys that exist in that music “revile the heavenly beings” . The fruit of which, is the horrible abbomination, which is a gold statue of Elvis in a Jerusalem suburb. referred to as “the king”. The same place where the pharasees protested pilat's inscription saying “this is jesus king of the jews', but go to this shrine on his birth and death day to watch impersonators preform. Imagine watching your wife have sex with another man, and the feelings you get. Now imagine what God is feeling. This has changed my whole life. I ride around in silence mostly. I got rid of most of the groups I listened too, because most of them glorified evil. Now I am just waiting and watching for Isreal to “utterly perish”, because in scripture thats what God said would happen if they forgot him and went after idols, and this is a really bad one. That is my truth that I came to . You got yours. Ed calculates it ect.etc. and if what I read in it is truth, we are going to see something huge very soon. By the way, I don't think it's going to happen 12-21-12, Nostradomus was an astrologer, odious to God, and not a true prophet. WE will be lucky to make it that far.. Anyway, sorry for rambling. God bless you Tim Kraft, and may he guide both of us. Amen. Mark
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