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- 942767,Oct. wrote:
Hi Irene:
If we love God with our whole heart, mind, and soul, we will do what He says out our love for Him. Our body is the Holy Temple of God, and it is important to take care of this temple.
Jesus said that “the Sabbath was made for man”, and so, this has not changed. In fact, the Ten Commandments are God's eternal law. They were written in stone by God. They cannot be changed. What has changed is that Jesus has shown us that we fulfill the law through “love”.
Quote Romans 3:29Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Romans 13
8Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Quote Jesus said, “if you love me, keep my commandments”.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty! Jesus was a Jew and that is why He said what He did. And Jesus also gave us the great commandment in Math. 22:37-40 which you want to ignore. And the new covenant in
Luke 22;20
That is why He said keep my commandments. And He gave us the great commandment to keep….As far as the Sabbath it was never meant for us.
Exd 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, [for] a perpetual covenant.
Exd 31:17 It [is] a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
We were never under that covenant unless you are Jewish…..
You seem ti think that because of the Sabbath and the new covenant that now I don;t love God. That is redicoulous, and not true. In fact again the great commandment, since Jesus magnified the Law it is much more then just the Ten Commandments….Do you understand what that means when He magnified the Law?
Now if I am angry with my Brother I have committed Murder in my Heart etc. If you want to keep the Sabbath, it is alright to do so, but like Paul said one might esteem one day and another another day, or some will keep every day alike.I keep every Day to the LORD. Since Gods Holy Spirit is in us, it makes it Holy, we are the Temple of God. The Bible also says that we are a Holy People….. I don;t remember were that Scriptures is of hand, I will have to look it up later. But the Sabbath is not a commandment for us. And there is no penalty if we don't keep it…..
Peace and Love Irene
Hi Marty,
I went to a seventh day adventist church for a while, they were nice people, some of their sermons were amazing. But they believe the saterday sabbath has been broken by the worlds religeons, and was either changed to a sunday – the first day of the week, or ignored completly. And that the RCC is the beast, and America comes into it too, I didnt see it as such a big deal and I believed Islam was the beast so stopped going, but I wonder sometimes if they were telling truth ?
Example here is some writing by an adventist, it's what they all believe and is just from a quick search, sorry its quite long so you probably wont want to read it all…
“(In the book of Revelation) There is much symbolism throughout and it is very difficult to answer questions in a few short lines. Even though this is one of the more difficult books in Scripture it was put there to study and God pronounces a blessing on those who diligently study it. So much of this book is prophecy and more that that these prophecies often have dual applications. Sometimes the same prophecy may apply to three or more events. For instance the “dragon” most notably represents Satan but in a secondary sense it also represents the Roman Empire. But then notice that the power succeeding the Roman Empire that receives from the dragon “his power and seat and great authority” is now papal Rome. When Satan could not eliminate the church through persecution he tried something different. He gave his power to papal Rome so as to establish a great counterfeit system of religion. He changed his tactics of working through pagan Rome using persecution to working through papal Rome using a professedly Christian organization to establish a counterfeit system of worship. I see that it is already getting very long because I want to try to include as much as I can for you to consider but I want to make it fairly clear which becomes difficult when trying to write it.
Let me mention a few more things though. Worshiping the beast is actually worshipping the dragon because the beast is the visible presence of the dragon who invisibly works behind the scenes. You mentioned Rev. 16 which states “there are three frog like spirits that come from the dragon…” Here is another verse that has more than one meaning and possibly more. Notice that Satan always tries to counterfeit God. These 3 spirits are a counterfeit of the trinity. But also these 3 unclean spirits also represent 3 powers that unite to cause the world to worship the dragon or Satan. These 3 powers are Roman Catholicism, apostate Protestantism and spiritism. Yes, you can look for an increase in spiritism as we get nearer the close of this world’s history. Before I get carried away again let me briefly give my interpretation of the question “is the image of the beast the same as the mark of the beast?” I believe, no. Notice that Scripture states in Rev:13:14 “…that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword and did live.” The religious power that was wounded almost to death was Papal Rome when the French general Berthier in 1798 captured the pope and imprisoned him. It seemed like the death of the papacy, but not long after the papacy revived to the power that it wields today.
Briefly put, the image to the beast is the papacy. The mark of the beast is what is received by submitting to the authority of the papacy. Now, this goes into another whole different subject concerning the change of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. In its own publications from the Catholic catechism the papacy acknowledges that it changed Sabbath to Sunday and that virtually all churches accepted this change to the new holy day. The papacy claims that Sunday as a holy day is the MARK, or symbol of her power and authority. This is taken right from the Catholic catechism. When you acknowledge the authority of this religious system of man made commandments over God’s commandments you figuratively receive the “mark of the beast.” Notice also that you can receive the mark either in your hand or in your forehead. The forehead is the mind. When you make a decision to keep Sunday as a holy day you receive the mark in your forehead. The hand according to Ecc. 9:10 is a symbol of work. When you decide to disregard the Sabbath for practical reasons (job, family, pleasure, etc) and work you receive the mark in your hand. To fully understand this takes you into another whole different area concerning legislation of Sunday laws. To comment on question #2 “is the second beast the false prophet” I would have to say no. Notice how the verse reads (Rev. 16:13) 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. Verse 13 clearly indicates that they are 3 different entities. It reads mouth of dragon, mouth of beast, mouth of false prophet. So what do I believe these 3 represent in this verse? Please consider this: The dragon represents Satan working through pagan/papal Rome. The false prophet represents apostate Protestantism centered in America which will take the lead in urging and influencing worldwide worship of the beast. The beast is the papacy. These 3 powers which make up non-Christian religions and governments, Roman Catholicism and apostate Protestantism become allies in the final war against God (Armageddon). This coalition is called “Babylon the great” by Jesus in Rev. 18:2.
So you certainly are right that the false prophets are the preachers from those fallen protestant churches. And concerning the fire coming down from heaven giving a false moral teaching this can be another one of those verses employing a dual application. Primarily though this fire coming down from heaven will be a real, literal fire that will be very convincing and give power to the false teaching. The Bible says that the dragon or devil “doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men” Rev. 13:13. Everyone present will see this miracle of fire which is actually produced by Satan working a miracle behind the scenes. The miracle is attributed to the miraculous power of the beast (papacy) and this cause all to worship the beast. Verse 14 then goes on to state that “he deceives them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast. Notice here again the counterfeit. The bringing down of fire from heaven is an attempt to counterfeit the miracle on Mt. Carmel by Elijah. At Mt. Carmel this miracle gave evidence of the true God. Here the beast will make it appear that by making fire come down from heaven that God is at work (in the papacy) giving His approval to the false message. I know I got too wordy and it can get confusing but continue your study and ask the Lord to help you along. This is His will because He pronounces a blessing on those seeking to understand this book. And don’t get discourages if things are not quickly understood. This is from the mind of God and scholars spend a lifetime studying this book and are constantly learning new things. Thanks for sharing you concerns and comments and we will always be keeping in touch. May the Lord continue to bless you as you seek Him, anthony”
http://en.allexperts.com/q….het.htm
Do you think the saterday sabbath is such a big deal as they say and that they are right in saying the RCC etc are in Rev,
shimmer, I just want to say to you that some Churches like the Seven Day Adventist and the former W.W.Church of God did not understand the new Covenant that Jesus gave us. We need to remember that Jesus came to do not His own will, but the will of Him who send Him. He came down from Heaven to do that. So when Jesus says something, we can be sure that Jehovah God agrees with it. Not only that it was Jehovah God who gave the covenant to Moses to keep or them, the Children of Israel, not us. We are Gentiles. Now since Jesus died for us we also are under grace, read those Scriptures I gave in my last post to Marty….I do know how you feel, because I too was there at one time….. God has been very good to us and has shown us several truths, which we did not have when we kept the Sabbath…..Please tell me how you feel about this now, since Marty came and put doubt into you again….????Did He?
?
Peace and Love IreneHi Irene, the saterday sabbath is something I would like to think about. From both sides. Sometimes I miss the church I went to, there were people there I got really close to. One was an elderly lady, she had such a good heart, another was a family, I only went for a while. But what if they are right ?
The RCC changed the sabbath from saterday (the seventh day) to sunday (the first day) , where in scripture does it say man has the authority to change one of God's laws ? Jesus said untill heaven and earth pass away – which hasnt happened yet – not one dot of the law changes – this was Jesus speaking.People say ..”It's only a day – no big deal”
But then with Adam and Eve…It was only the fruit of a tree – no big deal,But it was disobediance. It say's the whole world is decieved, When one is decieved, they dont know it,
Just my thoughts. Just thinking about it at the moment.
Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 18 2010,03:32) Hi Irene, the saterday sabbath is something I would like to think about. From both sides. Sometimes I miss the church I went to, there were people there I got really close to. One was an elderly lady, she had such a good heart, another was a family, I only went for a while. But what if they are right ?
The RCC changed the sabbath from saterday (the seventh day) to sunday (the first day) , where in scripture does it say man has the authority to change one of God's laws ? Jesus said untill heaven and earth pass away – which hasnt happened yet – not one dot of the law changes – this was Jesus speaking.People say ..”It's only a day – no big deal”
But then with Adam and Eve…It was only the fruit of a tree – no big deal,But it was disobediance. It say's the whole world is decieved, When one is decieved, they dont know it,
Just my thoughts. Just thinking about it at the moment.
shimmerwhat was the purpose of Gods sabbath ?was it not to give that full day to the things of God ?
so the Jews could work for themselves six days but the seventh day it has to be all for God, doing what ??learning ,understand the law that would spoken to them.
wen Jesus came those principles were not changed,but Christ shows that it is not on one day that you have to serve your God,but 24/7 all the time ,in this way it brings all days of the week being a sabbath.
this is also why Paul says “let no one be judge for a day “
so if you feel it is important to you to observe that day well do it,but do not judge the one who does not,same in reverse.Pierre
Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 17 2010,20:32) Hi Irene, the saterday sabbath is something I would like to think about. From both sides. Sometimes I miss the church I went to, there were people there I got really close to. One was an elderly lady, she had such a good heart, another was a family, I only went for a while. But what if they are right ?
The RCC changed the sabbath from saterday (the seventh day) to sunday (the first day) , where in scripture does it say man has the authority to change one of God's laws ? Jesus said untill heaven and earth pass away – which hasnt happened yet – not one dot of the law changes – this was Jesus speaking.People say ..”It's only a day – no big deal”
But then with Adam and Eve…It was only the fruit of a tree – no big deal,But it was disobediance. It say's the whole world is decieved, When one is decieved, they dont know it,
Just my thoughts. Just thinking about it at the moment.
shimmer! I do know what you are feeling, it is hard to leave a Church that have good people in it, But what did Jesus say, if you love Mother, Brother and Sister etc. more then Me, you are not worthy of Me. I have shown you Scriptures that states it was a day for the Jews to keep, and not us Gentiles. Also Paul told us if you esteem one day or another or every day alike it is up to you…. So if you want to stay with them, I don't believe it is wrong. But just remember that Jesus also magnified the Law and made it Holy. Magnified, you do know what that is right? Just don't judge anyone for not keeping the Sabbath. I know that some of your Family go to the Catholic Church and they believe in a trinity, that however is wrong. It is a man made doctrine and not of God. I think I did explain all that to you already, right? Good luck to you and may God be with you, IreneQuote (shimmer @ Oct. 14 2010,20:38) Thanks Irene, I learnt alot from your post, it answered something for me, I wonder where this Mark has got to ?
Shimmer, I took your advice and checked out another posting site you recommended, and I must say it has been a blessing. There are many good natured believers who share faith and fellowship, without as many judgemental opinions as are on here. I used to enjoy the same on here, but the people seemed to leave also, such as Karmarie, thinker etc. because IMO this site has a few members who “know it all” and are intolarant to someone elses faith journey. Funny, the one who IMO does this the worst is “irene”. IMO to say that the sabbath is not relavant, the ten commandments are not valid ,one who believes in the trinity is lost, this just shows me IMO the very point of this thread-False teachers. My heart tells me who teaches with pure Jesus like love. He didn't condemn even prostitues, yet Irene condemns all who believe God is One. Irene! Love as you are Loved! Even dumb as a cow stupid me loves you as a sister in christ. You have done me great favors without even knowing it! I have never apprieciated my churchmembership as much as I do now. You said that you used to be a member of a choir and liked to sing, but left it behind because the church was not perfect. That gave me , a self concious shy person, the inspiration to join the choir. In my wildest dreams I couldn't imagine myself in the choir in front of the whole church. I went to practice the last two weeks and put on a choir robe for the first time. I love it! I love singing to God. I was even told I have a nice singing voice. Thank you! I do not have the time to post on the other site and here too, so do not think I “disappear” because I cannot contradict your one sentence scripture justifications for why you believe black and white contradictions to God's law. You cause me to sin, and I will be better off , because my heart tells me you are the point of this thread.Shimmer, Read the bible and have faith in Jesus, he will guide you.Trust only him. Not a specific church, not one person who quotes scriptures to match their own agendas (even satan did that to Jesus), not me, but God's spirit in your heart. Godbless and goodluck to all- MarkMark, your post made me laugh, I like your posts, it's a pity theres not more like you here, straight to the point, lol, I prefer those posts, You have a good spirit Mark, even if you and Irene disagree on things, I hope you enjoy your singing, God bless you Mark,
Terrarica and Irene, I hear what you are both saying, I agree, if one follows a sabbath and another doesnt, thank you for your posts.
Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 18 2010,23:08) Mark, your post made me laugh, I like your posts, it's a pity theres not more like you here, straight to the point, lol, I prefer those posts, You have a good spirit Mark, even if you and Irene disagree on things, I hope you enjoy your singing, God bless you Mark,
You too Shimmer. I will meet you in heaven one day, hopefully sooner than later. I'll sing to you. Love you- MarkQuote (mikeangel @ Oct. 18 2010,22:36) Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 14 2010,20:38) Thanks Irene, I learnt alot from your post, it answered something for me, I wonder where this Mark has got to ?
Shimmer, I took your advice and checked out another posting site you recommended, and I must say it has been a blessing. There are many good natured believers who share faith and fellowship, without as many judgemental opinions as are on here. I used to enjoy the same on here, but the people seemed to leave also, such as Karmarie, thinker etc. because IMO this site has a few members who “know it all” and are intolerant to someone else's faith journey. Funny, the one who IMO does this the worst is “Irene”. IMO to say that the sabbath is not relevant, the ten commandments are not valid ,one who believes in the trinity is lost, this just shows me IMO the very point of this thread-False teachers. My heart tells me who teaches with pure Jesus like love. He didn't condemn even prostitutes, yet Irene condemns all who believe God is One. Irene! Love as you are Loved! Even dumb as a cow stupid me loves you as a sister in Christ. You have done me great favors without even knowing it! I have never appreciated my church membership as much as I do now. You said that you used to be a member of a choir and liked to sing, but left it behind because the church was not perfect. That gave me , a self conscious shy person, the inspiration to join the choir. In my wildest dreams I couldn't imagine myself in the choir in front of the whole church. I went to practice the last two weeks and put on a choir robe for the first time. I love it! I love singing to God. I was even told I have a nice singing voice. Thank you! I do not have the time to post on the other site and here too, so do not think I “disappear” because I cannot contradict your one sentence scripture justifications for why you believe black and white contradictions to God's law. You cause me to sin, and I will be better off , because my heart tells me you are the point of this thread.Shimmer, Read the bible and have faith in Jesus, he will guide you.Trust only him. Not a specific church, not one person who quotes scriptures to match their own agendas (even Satan did that to Jesus), not me, but God's spirit in your heart. God bless and good luck to all- Mark
Mark! So I am the worst of the worst here, so you are not believing in those Scriptures that I quoted to you or shimmer for that matter? And if I am then the worst of the worst that is just find with me, because when Jesus walked this earth , they too hated Him and even crucified Him to a cruel death on the cross. Jesus said if they hated Me they will also hate you. Good luck to you. As far as going to Heaven, again you do not know Scriptures. In fact when all is done, Jehovah God will come to the new Earth with the New Jerusalem and will be with men here on earth, not in heaven. No-one has seen the Father or heard His voice and all are sleeping in their graves, until the resurrection, that too you don't understand…. I was a Catholic one time and I know what doctrines you have and they are false. Especially the worship to Maria. She did not stay a Virgin like you want to believe. She also had other Children.
In
Mat 1:25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.What do you think this verse means? He had known Her for some time and then married Her when She was with child, He had sex with Her after Jesus was born, that is what married people do and Joseph and Maria were not any different then any of us, except they were very humble and God was their God and obeyed Him. In fact John is Jesus half Brother, since Jesus Father is Jehovah God. Sorry my friend that you can't understand and it is ironic how things work out. I am forever thankful to God for calling us out. Even our Parish Priest at the time told Georg, my Husband, that God was calling Him. So He knew something was not right in the Catholic Church, but for whatever reason He could not leave….Most forums believe in the trinity so they will not even allow you in unless you believe in that doctrine that is false……Most here are not judgemental at all, they give Scriptures and if you call that judgemental, MMMMMMM there are some but the Moderator will give them warnings and if they keep it up tiles, and if someone has five tiles they will have to leave. That happened to a few since we became members here…..I also find it ironic because you don't keep the Sabbath in the Catholic Church you keep Sundays the day of the Sun God. The Sabbath is on Saturday. And thinker did not leave , but His users name has changed, He now is Kangaroo Jack If you knew Scriptures about the New Covenant you would not say what you did about the Ten Commandment either. You see, Jesus also magnified the Law on the Sermon on the Mount and made the Law Holy. Now if you hate brother you have committed murder in your Heart. etc. Did you even read shimmers post I did to Her? Probably not with an open mind. Mark I don't hate anyone, you are judging me, and that my friend you will one day regret. What I am trying to do here is talk about what the Bible which is God's Word and are truth, I show them the Scriptures, which you want to deny, that is not judging. That is out of Love that I am am doing so. Shimmer never taught that I hate Her. In fact She thanks me for telling Her the truth, which you don't want to hear. That is unfortunately. And not my fault, yours..I really don't expect you to understand so good bye, Peace to you Irene
PS I don't fol;low men, I follow God, and right niw I don't kniow iof a Church that has God's Truth. Jesus said in Math. If you go by a doctrine of men, you worship in vain, and that is why I don't go to any Church that teach doctrine of men and not of God. That hiowever does not mean that I know don't love men, I do even as Jesus did. So don't say what you don't kniow of me…. I am 72 yers old and we too have Family that go to other Churches. I love them too. So to say all the things you just did, is totally false about me…..Both of you, Irene and Mark, you both do good posts, which is why iv liked reading here, quite a good arguement from where I started reading,
Mark, same to you,
Quote (Baker @ Oct. 16 2010,17:29) 942767,Oct. wrote:Hi Irene:
If we love God with our whole heart, mind, and soul, we will do what He says out our love for Him. Our body is the Holy Temple of God, and it is important to take care of this temple.
Jesus said that “the Sabbath was made for man”, and so, this has not changed. In fact, the Ten Commandments are God's eternal law. They were written in stone by God. They cannot be changed. What has changed is that Jesus has shown us that we fulfill the law through “love”.
Quote Romans 3:29Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Romans 13
8Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Quote Jesus said, “if you love me, keep my commandments”.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty! Jesus was a Jew and that is why He said what He did. And Jesus also gave us the great commandment in Math. 22:37-40 which you want to ignore. And the new covenant in
Luke 22;20
That is why He said keep my commandments. And He gave us the great commandment to keep….As far as the Sabbath it was never meant for us.
Exd 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, [for] a perpetual covenant.
Exd 31:17 It [is] a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
We were never under that covenant unless you are Jewish…..
You seem ti think that because of the Sabbath and the new covenant that now I don;t love God. That is redicoulous, and not true. In fact again the great commandment, since Jesus magnified the Law it is much more then just the Ten Commandments….Do you understand what that means when He magnified the Law?
Now if I am angry with my Brother I have committed Murder in my Heart etc. If you want to keep the Sabbath, it is alright to do so, but like Paul said one might esteem one day and another another day, or some will keep every day alike.I keep every Day to the LORD. Since Gods Holy Spirit is in us, it makes it Holy, we are the Temple of God. The Bible also says that we are a Holy People….. I don;t remember were that Scriptures is of hand, I will have to look it up later. But the Sabbath is not a commandment for us. And there is no penalty if we don't keep it…..
Peace and Love Irene
Hi Irene:I have never accused you of not loving God, but I have a different understanding than what you teach regarding this subject.
Both you and I responsible to God for what we teach.
Love in Christ,
Martyall
there are no Jews or Greeks all the same wen Peter wen to Cornelius,all one people the sacrifice of Christ is now given to all men ,they just have to believe in Christ.
Pierre
Irene.
Let me tell you some things you do not understand about me. Even though I am catholic, i put my full faith and trust in him, not the church. I have said that on more than one occasion, and you do not seem to understand what that means. No matter what you think your knowledge of God means, because you think you have “correct” faith while those who do not believe exactly what you do are “incorrect” and lost, that imo is a judgement. You have no idea what I believe and do not believe. I do not worship mary. I do believe he had brothers by mary. I do think that people who think that mary specifically can do things are idolatrious. I do believe that you can repent in your own soul and ask god personally to be forgiven and be forgiven. I do think that calling the pope the “Holy Father” is blasphemous(I even wrote several priest and my bishop that). I do think the church has made many mistakes, horrible ones. I do think that any one who thinks they can sin all they want and go to cofession every week is in for a shock. I do think that the few wolves that screwed all the altar boys are going to get the most unimaginable infinate punishment, second to satan and the false prophet and the antichrist……………..But………………. I believe they are human. I believe they make mistakes. I believe we all do. I believe we cannot obtain forgiveness on our specific knowledge or almsgiving. I believe money and power corrupts everyone. I believe thier are people in all churches who have not fallen to that. I believe their are people in all churches that have. I believe God shows me in my sprit who is who. I believe God will not send me to hell for losing my virginity on my confirmation retreat 10 feet away from a sleeping priest. I believe Satan chained me up for 15 years to a woman with a demon in her with that sin. I believe God still loves me, and I believe God loves you too. Peace- MarkQuote (shimmer @ Oct. 17 2010,08:53) Hi Marty, I went to a seventh day adventist church for a while, they were nice people, some of their sermons were amazing. But they believe the saterday sabbath has been broken by the worlds religeons, and was either changed to a sunday – the first day of the week, or ignored completly. And that the RCC is the beast, and America comes into it too, I didnt see it as such a big deal and I believed Islam was the beast so stopped going, but I wonder sometimes if they were telling truth ?
Example here is some writing by an adventist, it's what they all believe and is just from a quick search, sorry its quite long so you probably wont want to read it all…
“(In the book of Revelation) There is much symbolism throughout and it is very difficult to answer questions in a few short lines. Even though this is one of the more difficult books in Scripture it was put there to study and God pronounces a blessing on those who diligently study it. So much of this book is prophecy and more that that these prophecies often have dual applications. Sometimes the same prophecy may apply to three or more events. For instance the “dragon” most notably represents Satan but in a secondary sense it also represents the Roman Empire. But then notice that the power succeeding the Roman Empire that receives from the dragon “his power and seat and great authority” is now papal Rome. When Satan could not eliminate the church through persecution he tried something different. He gave his power to papal Rome so as to establish a great counterfeit system of religion. He changed his tactics of working through pagan Rome using persecution to working through papal Rome using a professedly Christian organization to establish a counterfeit system of worship. I see that it is already getting very long because I want to try to include as much as I can for you to consider but I want to make it fairly clear which becomes difficult when trying to write it.
Let me mention a few more things though. Worshiping the beast is actually worshipping the dragon because the beast is the visible presence of the dragon who invisibly works behind the scenes. You mentioned Rev. 16 which states “there are three frog like spirits that come from the dragon…” Here is another verse that has more than one meaning and possibly more. Notice that Satan always tries to counterfeit God. These 3 spirits are a counterfeit of the trinity. But also these 3 unclean spirits also represent 3 powers that unite to cause the world to worship the dragon or Satan. These 3 powers are Roman Catholicism, apostate Protestantism and spiritism. Yes, you can look for an increase in spiritism as we get nearer the close of this world’s history. Before I get carried away again let me briefly give my interpretation of the question “is the image of the beast the same as the mark of the beast?” I believe, no. Notice that Scripture states in Rev:13:14 “…that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword and did live.” The religious power that was wounded almost to death was Papal Rome when the French general Berthier in 1798 captured the pope and imprisoned him. It seemed like the death of the papacy, but not long after the papacy revived to the power that it wields today.
Briefly put, the image to the beast is the papacy. The mark of the beast is what is received by submitting to the authority of the papacy. Now, this goes into another whole different subject concerning the change of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. In its own publications from the Catholic catechism the papacy acknowledges that it changed Sabbath to Sunday and that virtually all churches accepted this change to the new holy day. The papacy claims that Sunday as a holy day is the MARK, or symbol of her power and authority. This is taken right from the Catholic catechism. When you acknowledge the authority of this religious system of man made commandments over God’s commandments you figuratively receive the “mark of the beast.” Notice also that you can receive the mark either in your hand or in your forehead. The forehead is the mind. When you make a decision to keep Sunday as a holy day you receive the mark in your forehead. The hand according to Ecc. 9:10 is a symbol of work. When you decide to disregard the Sabbath for practical reasons (job, family, pleasure, etc) and work you receive the mark in your hand. To fully understand this takes you into another whole different area concerning legislation of Sunday laws. To comment on question #2 “is the second beast the false prophet” I would have to say no. Notice how the verse reads (Rev. 16:13) 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. Verse 13 clearly indicates that they are 3 different entities. It reads mouth of dragon, mouth of beast, mouth of false prophet. So what do I believe these 3 represent in this verse? Please consider this: The dragon represents Satan working through pagan/papal Rome. The false prophet represents apostate Protestantism centered in America which will take the lead in urging and influencing worldwide worship of the beast. The beast is the papacy. These 3 powers which make up non-Christian religions and governments, Roman Catholicism and apostate Protestantism become allies in the final war against God (Armageddon). This coalition is called “Babylon the great” by Jesus in Rev. 18:2.
So you certainly are right that the false prophets are the preachers from those fallen protestant churches. And concerning the fire coming down from heaven giving a false moral teaching this can be another one of those verses employing a dual application. Primarily though this fire coming down from heaven will be a real, literal fire that will be very convincing and give power to the false teaching. The Bible says that the dragon or devil “doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men” Rev. 13:13. Everyone present will see this miracle of fire which is actually produced by Satan working a miracle behind the scenes. The miracle is attributed to the miraculous power of the beast (papacy) and this cause all to worship the beast. Verse 14 then goes on to state that “he deceives them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast. Notice here again the counterfeit. The bringing down of fire from heaven is an attempt to counterfeit the miracle on Mt. Carmel by Elijah. At Mt. Carmel this miracle gave evidence of the true God. Here the beast will make it appear that by making fire come down from heaven that God is at work (in the papacy) giving His approval to the false message. I know I got too wordy and it can get confusing but continue your study and ask the Lord to help you along. This is His will because He pronounces a blessing on those seeking to understand this book. And don’t get discourages if things are not quickly understood. This is from the mind of God and scholars spend a lifetime studying this book and are constantly learning new things. Thanks for sharing you concerns and comments and we will always be keeping in touch. May the Lord continue to bless you as you seek Him, anthony”
http://en.allexperts.com/q….het.htm
Do you think the saterday sabbath is such a big deal as they say and that they are right in saying the RCC etc are in Rev,
Hi Shimmer:When I heard the Seventh day Adventist teaching regarding the Sabbath several years ago, I went to God in prayer asking him if their teaching was correct. I also went to visit the Seventh Adventist church in this process because if this is what God wanted I wanted to do whatever God wanted.
What God has taught me is that it is not the day that matters, but the principle that is taught in keeping the Sabbath. In the bible, Saturday, Friday at 6PM until 6PM on Saturday, is the Sabbath. We know that is the truth.
Although I have been taught that it is the principle that matters, when God puts me in authority in the church, I will teach observance of the Sabbath on Saturday like it was in the bible, in order to stop the arguing about the day in order to bring the church into unity.
About your other questions in the book of Revelation, I will have to print what you have written and study what you have said before I can give an answer.
The Seventh day Adventists take this issue about the Sabbath to an extreme just as the Pharisees did.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (mikeangel @ Oct. 19 2010,12:21) Irene.
Let me tell you some things you do not understand about me. Even though I am catholic, i put my full faith and trust in him, not the church. I have said that on more than one occasion, and you do not seem to understand what that means. No matter what you think your knowledge of God means, because you think you have “correct” faith while those who do not believe exactly what you do are “incorrect” and lost, that imo is a judgement. You have no idea what I believe and do not believe. I do not worship mary. I do believe he had brothers by mary. I do think that people who think that mary specifically can do things are idolatrious. I do believe that you can repent in your own soul and ask god personally to be forgiven and be forgiven. I do think that calling the pope the “Holy Father” is blasphemous(I even wrote several priest and my bishop that). I do think the church has made many mistakes, horrible ones. I do think that any one who thinks they can sin all they want and go to cofession every week is in for a shock. I do think that the few wolves that screwed all the altar boys are going to get the most unimaginable infinate punishment, second to satan and the false prophet and the antichrist……………..But………………. I believe they are human. I believe they make mistakes. I believe we all do. I believe we cannot obtain forgiveness on our specific knowledge or almsgiving. I believe money and power corrupts everyone. I believe thier are people in all churches who have not fallen to that. I believe their are people in all churches that have. I believe God shows me in my sprit who is who. I believe God will not send me to hell for losing my virginity on my confirmation retreat 10 feet away from a sleeping priest. I believe Satan chained me up for 15 years to a woman with a demon in her with that sin. I believe God still loves me, and I believe God loves you too. Peace- Mark
Mark! You are not a Catholic. Why do you then even go there? You should set an example and show them that believing in what they teach is wrong. Look I do not judge You ore any Catholic I let Scripture do that. Sure they are Human, however is that any excuse to do what the Bible says is wrong? We were ignoring bAck then too and did not even read the Bible. I don;t know if they do now or not. Do they? We should worship in spirit and in truth. I also have prayed for you and will again. I am happy though that you know about their doctrines….. so sorry though that you still stay. That I don't understand……Peace IreneQuote (terraricca @ Oct. 19 2010,12:11) all there are no Jews or Greeks all the same wen Peter wen to Cornelius,all one people the sacrifice of Christ is now given to all men ,they just have to believe in Christ.
Pierre
Pierre! The Jewish people are under the old Covenant yet. Some have become Christian but fior them the old Covenant is still in place. ReadExd 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, [for] a perpetual covenant.
and
Exd 34:27 ¶ And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.
Exd 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
Because it is a perpetual covenant that it is still for the Jewish people. Perpetual means forever. Peace Irene
“The Seventh day Adventists take this issue about the Sabbath to an extreme just as the Pharisees did.'
I agree. Peace.
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