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Hi All! Have you noticed that Mark has not come back? He joined in December of 2009, yet I believe when He gets to put on the spot, He leaves again…..IMO I really want Him to come back and see what He has to
say about the Scriptures I put in front of Him….Well we'll see……Peace IreneQuote (Baker @ Sep. 30 2010,14:25) Quote (mikeangel @ Sep. 30 2010,13:25) Irene, I am christian first. I put my trust in God . I was raised Catholic, went through the sacraments, and still attend with my family sometimes. I have written letters to my priests and bishop about the inconsistancies between the church and scripture. To be thrown out would be an honor. I volunteer at an Episcopal church on Sun. and was married in a Methodist church in West Memphis Arkansas. My wife is Baptist and we have an active and fruitful prayer life. In answer to your question I am Christian. Godbless
Mike! Thank you for your reply. The reason that I asked you, is because most organized Churches believe in a trinity doctrine, which is not according to Scripture. We were born into the Catholic Church and left years ago…. We do not attend any Church. If we could find a Church that would believe in Scriptures, we would join. Most do believe in the trinity, and if they don't they think the have to keep the Old Covenant. We are not in the Old but the new under Christ blood, and the great commandment……aso we believe that Christ preexisted His birth here on earth. Scriptures say so…..
Some will say what difference does it make, and I will give them
Math. 15:9……Peace Irene
Irene, Don't flatter yourself. I had to get my house ready to show, and was a way for a few days. Thats done and they are going to buy it (a real blessing in this market) If I don't immediately respond then leave me a message in my inbox instead of wondering if I am ignoring you. I'll start here and try to respond to all of the scripture you have quoted, but that may be difficult because like terrica you quote alot without explaining the relavance. Like this one. You say “I give them Matt 15:9” without stating the scripture and saying how it relates to what you are trying to show. I looked it up, and it says “They do me empty reverance, making dogmas out of human precepts” He was talking about the Jewish scribes and Pharisees, and how they weren't worshiping god from their heart but were following habits made by themselves, like you not going to gather with other people and have the lords supper(biblically advocated ) but go online and critisize how other people worship. How do you know what I do and how I worship? You ignored MY answer to you, and that was that I was A CHRISTIAN. You are all to eager to jump on the fact that you know that I am catholic and am lost and idol worshiping sprinkled not dunked wafer eating mary worshiping saint praying so and so and so. I know that. You think the pope is the anti-christ and adjust your numerals to fit something into 666. because you are SURE that you are right. All the while, suprise suprise, out of hundreds of differant denominations out there,you are too good or more scripturally correct than any, and you lack the faith or drive to start your own, so you sit there in your self rightiousness critisizing the poor lost sinners who just need to hear what YOU have to say instead of go to church. Thank God I am in his hands, not yours. Peace and Love- MarkQuote (Baker @ Oct. 01 2010,11:31) Quote (mikeangel @ Sep. 30 2010,23:20) Peace to you too Irene. God the father, God the Son, or God the holy sprit.IMO There are bigger fish to fry than to get hung up on this. for instance- the millions of babys in the medical dumps whose innocent blood screams out to god. The Idols people have no idea they worship becaus they put them before god in thier life etc. There are churches that do not profess the trinity, but if their other specifics strike a nerve with you than you have the obligation to follow your concience, imo find other christians and assemble and proclaim Jesus in a loving way. IMO It would be wise not to judge the ones who elect to stay in the furnace and fight. Peace- Mark
Mark! I do agree that those that are in need should be helped, however it is also important not to worship in vain. That is why I gave you the Scripture in Math. The trinity is a man made doctrine and not of God. It was Quintus Septimius Florence Tertullian who in the third century after brutal and bloody three century came up with the trinity doctrine. And it was Constantine who made it law. Constantine also stopped the persecution, but unfortunately listened to Tertullian. There is only one Almighty God and Scriptures say so Deut. 4:35 and Deut. 6:4 and 1 Corinth.8:4 and the one I like the best is
Ephesians 4:5 and by Jesus own words in John 14:28 My Father is greater then I. the next verse is also interesting. Jesus warns us to remember what He said…..
So to me it is very important. We cannot just ignore those Scriptures because there are poor that need our help. Also charity starts at Home……When your older Children are in need we should help them first and then if our finances aloud it, then help those in need….There is also a Scriptures that were Jesus said that the poor have always been with you, but He is not…..My Husband went back to work to help out our Daughter who is going to College to get Her degree in Nursing…. Georg my Husband is 73 years old, and I am 72…..
Math. 15:9And in vain they do worship Me, Teaching as doctrine the commandments of men.” ………..the trinity is a man made doctrine….. We used to belong to the Catholic Church all of our lives until Georg was 47 and I was 46….God has been very good to us and I thank Him daily. Christ's Church is spiritual and not a man made Church which most organized religion are……. You quoted Math 28 where it says :In name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not a person, which the trinity is. We have received God's Holy Spirit at Baptism and it is not a person 3in1 you cannot prove in Scriptures, since Math. should say and His Holy Spirit, that is what it is God's Holy Spirit, and not a person. I also said this before the Catholic Churches Mass is the abomination, and the worship of Maria? I am not going to go on and on about that Church, however if you read the Bible and ask God to open your mind to the truth, He will…….One more thing, why do you find it so important to worship with others? Two or Three is good enough for me, and it should also be for you, if you want to follow the truth….Idols, there are plenty in most Churches, especially the Catholic Church…1.Thess.5:21 says to prove all things, have you? We have…… And I know where I belong, in Christ and not in any organized religion………..Peace Irene
In this post, you explained why you do not believe in the trinity, and I already said that had more important things to worry about than that. That was already stated. The only other question in here is why do I feel like I need to be with others. Well, God said to let my light shine, and not put it under a basket (in my own house or exclusively online). I love my church family, and that includes everyone I know that is christion, and I also love every friendly person I meet. Sharing the love, not hiding it, the way I think God likes it.PeaceNow, sisce I answered your question, Please answer this- Did you and George get re-baptised in a church? Did you get re-baptised at all? Have you taken the lords supper lately like he asked you too? Did these questions that I also asked terrica hit you close to home so much that you jumped on your high horse and called me out over next to nothing and a 2 day delay?
Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 04 2010,07:07) Quote (Baker @ Sep. 30 2010,14:25) Quote (mikeangel @ Sep. 30 2010,13:25) Irene, I am christian first. I put my trust in God . I was raised Catholic, went through the sacraments, and still attend with my family sometimes. I have written letters to my priests and bishop about the inconsistancies between the church and scripture. To be thrown out would be an honor. I volunteer at an Episcopal church on Sun. and was married in a Methodist church in West Memphis Arkansas. My wife is Baptist and we have an active and fruitful prayer life. In answer to your question I am Christian. Godbless
Mike! Thank you for your reply. The reason that I asked you, is because most organized Churches believe in a trinity doctrine, which is not according to Scripture. We were born into the Catholic Church and left years ago…. We do not attend any Church. If we could find a Church that would believe in Scriptures, we would join. Most do believe in the trinity, and if they don't they think the have to keep the Old Covenant. We are not in the Old but the new under Christ blood, and the great commandment……aso we believe that Christ preexisted His birth here on earth. Scriptures say so…..
Some will say what difference does it make, and I will give them
Math. 15:9……Peace Irene
Irene, Don't flatter yourself. I had to get my house ready to show, and was a way for a few days. Thats done and they are going to buy it (a real blessing in this market) If I don't immediately respond then leave me a message in my inbox instead of wondering if I am ignoring you. I'll start here and try to respond to all of the scripture you have quoted, but that may be difficult because like terrica you quote alot without explaining the relavance. Like this one. You say “I give them Matt 15:9” without stating the scripture and saying how it relates to what you are trying to show. I looked it up, and it says “They do me empty reverance, making dogmas out of human precepts” He was talking about the Jewish scribes and Pharisees, and how they weren't worshiping god from their heart but were following habits made by themselves, like you not going to gather with other people and have the lords supper(biblically advocated ) but go online and critisize how other people worship. How do you know what I do and how I worship? You ignored MY answer to you, and that was that I was A CHRISTIAN. You are all to eager to jump on the fact that you know that I am catholic and am lost and idol worshiping sprinkled not dunked wafer eating mary worshiping saint praying so and so and so. I know that. You think the pope is the anti-christ and adjust your numerals to fit something into 666. because you are SURE that you are right. All the while, suprise suprise, out of hundreds of differant denominations out there,you are too good or more scripturally correct than any, and you lack the faith or drive to start your own, so you sit there in your self rightiousness critisizing the poor lost sinners who just need to hear what YOU have to say instead of go to church. Thank God I am in his hands, not yours. Peace and Love- Mark
Mark! I will not go into any personal thing with you except that we were re baptized in 1985, since coming out of the Catholic Church we found it was according to Scriptures that we should. Also I am 72 years old and really can't do much any longer. i did for years sang in a beautiful Choir and still sing songs to God. Started a Woman's Organization and was a Treasurer in a German Organization. We had a German Mass once a month…..After we left the Catholic Church we joined the W>W. Church of God, were we learned to read the bible and it was a good experieince. However they to went back to believing in doctrines that we don't. One thing is that we have always done is we followed what Scriptures say. One more thing, we were born in Germany.
Now to Scriptures, and remember I am not criticizing, I am trying to show you the truth, which we are all here for…
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.
The trinity is a men made doctrine and not of God. In my other post I told you who came up with it. The first Christians never kept the tinity.
Now lets prove that the trinity is wrong. I gave you one Scripture already. The one were Jesus said that My Father is greatert hen I. John 14:28 Next
Deut 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he [is] God; [there is] none else beside him.Deut 6:4 ¶ Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD:
1Cr 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that [there is] none other God but one.
This next Scripture is my favorite one.
Ephesians 4:6
One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.Eph 4:4 [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
One Spirit and it is not a Person, which the trinity says it is…..
Also think about it, if the Holy Spirit would be a person then the Holy Spirit would be Jesus Father. And we know that is false…We receive God's Holy Spirit at Baptism and how could that be a person living in us, sounds rather redicoulous to say the least…..These are clear Scriptures that prove the trinity wrong. Is it important, yes. The Bible tells us to prove all things. All these Scriptures are taken from the Blue Letter Bible which you can find on the Internet……However they are also in my K James Bible. I just make it easy for myself and Copy and Paste these Scriptures I gave you……
One more thing, I don't have to go to a Church to let my light shine, I cabn do that any where and any tinme and we should do so. Even when we go to a Store, we can either frown or smile and let our light shine. At work if we work. .Peace IreneMark! Why are you here? Is it that you want to learn something or that you want to teach us something? All you can say is that let your light shine and do charity…. That is not why we are here. It is to debate Scriptures, if they are right and go along with our believes or wrong. That you have not done. In all of your posts I have not seen one single Scripture an if I missed it show me…..Peace Irene
Hey Irene, I am sorry I came out swinging. I was away for a bit and when I came back I saw where you thought I had backed down under pressure, so I got a little edgy. My problem with the church is not the trinity. I said before that I have bigger things to compalin about than defining God. Both of us cannot. God the creator made all things. God the son died for me, and God the holy sprit remains with me so I am not an orphan until Jesus gets back. Thats what I believe. Thats the point. Jesus did say that God was greater than he was. But right before he died, and was perfected, He said this NIV–John 14 v7 If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on you know him and have seen him” v8 Phillip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that would be enough for us.” v9 Jesus answered, “Don't you know me, Phillip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.” What would you say to Jesus ? ” but Jesus you are seperate ” I'd hate to see what he said to that. We both have common ground that we can fellowship on. We love God and Jesus and depend on his blessings and salvation, right? We both find it against scripture what tha RCC has professed that is not in the bible. Neither of us like the statues, prayers or intercessions, titles or arrogance of the church, just for a start. Believe it or not I agree with you! I just take a differant approach to it. I want to make a differance by remaining inside, and bringing it up out of love. I do that. I honor God by putting my faith into action as well as let the church how much like the pharisees they have become. Have my letters ended up in their trash cans ? I don;t care. God knows I tried and did my best, which is all God asks of me. I'm starting a big Job tomorrow so it may be a day or two, but I will get back to you. In the mean time Godbless and take care- Mark
Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 04 2010,08:20) Quote (Baker @ Oct. 01 2010,11:31) Quote (mikeangel @ Sep. 30 2010,23:20) Peace to you too Irene. God the father, God the Son, or God the holy sprit.IMO There are bigger fish to fry than to get hung up on this. for instance- the millions of babys in the medical dumps whose innocent blood screams out to god. The Idols people have no idea they worship becaus they put them before god in thier life etc. There are churches that do not profess the trinity, but if their other specifics strike a nerve with you than you have the obligation to follow your concience, imo find other christians and assemble and proclaim Jesus in a loving way. IMO It would be wise not to judge the ones who elect to stay in the furnace and fight. Peace- Mark
Mark! I do agree that those that are in need should be helped, however it is also important not to worship in vain. That is why I gave you the Scripture in Math. The trinity is a man made doctrine and not of God. It was Quintus Septimius Florence Tertullian who in the third century after brutal and bloody three century came up with the trinity doctrine. And it was Constantine who made it law. Constantine also stopped the persecution, but unfortunately listened to Tertullian. There is only one Almighty God and Scriptures say so Deut. 4:35 and Deut. 6:4 and 1 Corinth.8:4 and the one I like the best is
Ephesians 4:5 and by Jesus own words in John 14:28 My Father is greater then I. the next verse is also interesting. Jesus warns us to remember what He said…..
So to me it is very important. We cannot just ignore those Scriptures because there are poor that need our help. Also charity starts at Home……When your older Children are in need we should help them first and then if our finances aloud it, then help those in need….There is also a Scriptures that were Jesus said that the poor have always been with you, but He is not…..My Husband went back to work to help out our Daughter who is going to College to get Her degree in Nursing…. Georg my Husband is 73 years old, and I am 72…..
Math. 15:9And in vain they do worship Me, Teaching as doctrine the commandments of men.” ………..the trinity is a man made doctrine….. We used to belong to the Catholic Church all of our lives until Georg was 47 and I was 46….God has been very good to us and I thank Him daily. Christ's Church is spiritual and not a man made Church which most organized religion are……. You quoted Math 28 where it says :In name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not a person, which the trinity is. We have received God's Holy Spirit at Baptism and it is not a person 3in1 you cannot prove in Scriptures, since Math. should say and His Holy Spirit, that is what it is God's Holy Spirit, and not a person. I also said this before the Catholic Churches Mass is the abomination, and the worship of Maria? I am not going to go on and on about that Church, however if you read the Bible and ask God to open your mind to the truth, He will…….One more thing, why do you find it so important to worship with others? Two or Three is good enough for me, and it should also be for you, if you want to follow the truth….Idols, there are plenty in most Churches, especially the Catholic Church…1.Thess.5:21 says to prove all things, have you? We have…… And I know where I belong, in Christ and not in any organized religion………..Peace Irene
In this post, you explained why you do not believe in the trinity, and I already said that had more important things to worry about than that. That was already stated. The only other question in here is why do I feel like I need to be with others. Well, God said to let my light shine, and not put it under a basket (in my own house or exclusively online). I love my church family, and that includes everyone I know that is christion, and I also love every friendly person I meet. Sharing the love, not hiding it, the way I think God likes it.Peace
Irene and Mark, this is a really good conversation, from both sides, Irene, you said it well and Mark you did too.I can see both of your viewpoints.
Quote Jesus will also say, to those that think so highly of themself. They will say did we not feed everybody and did we not do good, and Jesus will say:' I don't know you.” Hi Irene and Mark,
Just pointing out that it actually says,
'Many will say to me in that day, Lord, lord, have we not in thy name prophesied? and in thy name cast out demons? and in thy name done many mighty things? and then I will acknowledge to them, that — I never knew you, depart from me ye who are working lawlessness.
So it seems to be so called believers who do great things (prophets, people who claim to deliver people of demons, and other mighty works maybe including healers, musicians, all done in the name of the Lord)
If someone goes to church and professes to follow the Lord, yet feels nothing much for anyone, actually believes others will be fried in hell torment forever and ever, hates their neighbour, loves their money and possesions, wouldn't they be the ones who you could imagine Jesus says “away from me, workers of lawlessness” because,
The law is Love the Lord thy God with all of your heart and all of your mind and all of your soul…..And love your neighbor as yourself. (hard to do sometimes, but pray whenever you feel the need to retaliate..it works),
But see how it says “He who is doing the will of my Father in Heaven”, what is His will ? Love. (Not just fake artificial, all for show, what can I get out of this sort of love but real love. Love where you would die for the person/people, and remember where two or three are gathered..)
And Jesus did say, Matthew 25:31
`Then shall the king say to those on his right hand, Come ye, the blessed of my Father, inherit the reign that hath been prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I did hunger, and ye gave me to eat; I did thirst, and ye gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and ye received me; naked, and ye put around me; I was infirm, and ye looked after me; in prison I was, and ye came unto me.
`Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when did we see thee hungering, and we nourished? or thirsting, and we gave to drink? and when did we see thee a stranger, and we received? or naked, and we put around ?and when did we see thee infirm, or in prison, and we came unto thee?
`And the king answering, shall say to them, Verily I say to you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] to one of these my brethren — the least — to me ye did [it].
Then shall he say also to those on the left hand, Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers; for I did hunger, and ye gave me not to eat; I did thirst, and ye gave me not to drink; a stranger I was, and ye did not receive me; naked, and ye put not around me; infirm, and in prison, and ye did not look after me.
`Then shall they answer, they also, saying, Lord, when did we see thee hungering, or thirsting, or a stranger, or naked, or infirm, or in prison, and we did not minister to thee?
`Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say to you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of these, the least, ye did [it] not to me. And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'
My question is, if someone does good to others, lives humbly, treats people kindly and never truly knew Jesus the saviour, through no fault of their own, could they have a place in Gods kingdom for just their good deeds, kindness, good heart, and own suffering alone ? Iv often wondered that.
Shimmer, For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness, and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus. (Romans 2:14-16)
Also it is interesting that Jesus said that the end wouldn't come until the good news was heard over the whole world. Godbless
Quote (Baker @ Oct. 04 2010,08:43) Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 04 2010,07:07) Quote (Baker @ Sep. 30 2010,14:25) Quote (mikeangel @ Sep. 30 2010,13:25) Irene, I am christian first. I put my trust in God . I was raised Catholic, went through the sacraments, and still attend with my family sometimes. I have written letters to my priests and bishop about the inconsistancies between the church and scripture. To be thrown out would be an honor. I volunteer at an Episcopal church on Sun. and was married in a Methodist church in West Memphis Arkansas. My wife is Baptist and we have an active and fruitful prayer life. In answer to your question I am Christian. Godbless
Mike! Thank you for your reply. The reason that I asked you, is because most organized Churches believe in a trinity doctrine, which is not according to Scripture. We were born into the Catholic Church and left years ago…. We do not attend any Church. If we could find a Church that would believe in Scriptures, we would join. Most do believe in the trinity, and if they don't they think the have to keep the Old Covenant. We are not in the Old but the new under Christ blood, and the great commandment……aso we believe that Christ preexisted His birth here on earth. Scriptures say so…..
Some will say what difference does it make, and I will give them
Math. 15:9……Peace Irene
Irene, Don't flatter yourself. I had to get my house ready to show, and was a way for a few days. Thats done and they are going to buy it (a real blessing in this market) If I don't immediately respond then leave me a message in my inbox instead of wondering if I am ignoring you. I'll start here and try to respond to all of the scripture you have quoted, but that may be difficult because like terrica you quote alot without explaining the relavance. Like this one. You say “I give them Matt 15:9” without stating the scripture and saying how it relates to what you are trying to show. I looked it up, and it says “They do me empty reverance, making dogmas out of human precepts” He was talking about the Jewish scribes and Pharisees, and how they weren't worshiping god from their heart but were following habits made by themselves, like you not going to gather with other people and have the lords supper(biblically advocated ) but go online and critisize how other people worship. How do you know what I do and how I worship? You ignored MY answer to you, and that was that I was A CHRISTIAN. You are all to eager to jump on the fact that you know that I am catholic and am lost and idol worshiping sprinkled not dunked wafer eating mary worshiping saint praying so and so and so. I know that. You think the pope is the anti-christ and adjust your numerals to fit something into 666. because you are SURE that you are right. All the while, suprise suprise, out of hundreds of differant denominations out there,you are too good or more scripturally correct than any, and you lack the faith or drive to start your own, so you sit there in your self rightiousness critisizing the poor lost sinners who just need to hear what YOU have to say instead of go to church. Thank God I am in his hands, not yours. Peace and Love- Mark
Mark! I will not go into any personal thing with you except that we were re baptized in 1985, since coming out of the Catholic Church we found it was according to Scriptures that we should. Also I am 72 years old and really can't do much any longer. i did for years sang in a beautiful Choir and still sing songs to God. Started a Woman's Organization and was a Treasurer in a German Organization. We had a German Mass once a month…..After we left the Catholic Church we joined the W>W. Church of God, were we learned to read the bible and it was a good experieince. However they to went back to believing in doctrines that we don't. One thing is that we have always done is we followed what Scriptures say. One more thing, we were born in Germany.
Now to Scriptures, and remember I am not criticizing, I am trying to show you the truth, which we are all here for…
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.
The trinity is a men made doctrine and not of God. In my other post I told you who came up with it. The first Christians never kept the tinity.
Now lets prove that the trinity is wrong. I gave you one Scripture already. The one were Jesus said that My Father is greatert hen I. John 14:28 Next
Deut 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he [is] God; [there is] none else beside him.Deut 6:4 ¶ Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD:
1Cr 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that [there is] none other God but one.
This next Scripture is my favorite one.
Ephesians 4:6
One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.Eph 4:4 [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
One Spirit and it is not a Person, which the trinity says it is…..
Also think about it, if the Holy Spirit would be a person then the Holy Spirit would be Jesus Father. And we know that is false…We receive God's Holy Spirit at Baptism and how could that be a person living in us, sounds rather redicoulous to say the least…..These are clear Scriptures that prove the trinity wrong. Is it important, yes. The Bible tells us to prove all things. All these Scriptures are taken from the Blue Letter Bible which you can find on the Internet……However they are also in my K James Bible. I just make it easy for myself and Copy and Paste these Scriptures I gave you……
One more thing, I don't have to go to a Church to let my light shine, I cabn do that any where and any tinme and we should do so. Even when we go to a Store, we can either frown or smile and let our light shine. At work if we work. .Peace Irene
Thanks for sharing. I love this forum because nobody “knows” you personally, and you can be honest and open without fears of reprisals. I wouldn't ask you to get too personal, except when it comes to scripture. Like you said, thats what we are here for. I noticed you didn't answer the question about the lords supper. Do you and george share unleavaned bread and wine or grape juice in remamberance of him? I've often thought that if the church does get tired of my personal ministry and throws me out that I would go to the forrest on the weekends and make an altar out of earth and celebrate his death. I've even done it a few times and really enjoyed it. PeaceMark! The last Super is not a direct commandment. We live under the New Covenant in Luke 22:20 and the Great commandment in
Math. 22:20
I have no problems with keeping them at a Church that does not teach the trinity, because I feel that the Minister that also teaches the trinity has no right to make bread and wind into the body and blood of Christ.. How can hey sanctify anything when they themself are wrong Teachers. We always say a prayer before we eat, and I think remembering Christ to be a Mediator between Jehovah God and us, honor Him with my hearth…..I am very thankful for Jehovah God that He send His only begotten Son into the world, to save us. That is the greatest love of all to give ones life for others. Many did so in the first three centuries….That time will come again and in China many already have given their lives for Christ…..Peace , to you IreneQuote (shimmer @ Oct. 04 2010,20:41) Quote Jesus will also say, to those that think so highly of themself. They will say did we not feed everybody and did we not do good, and Jesus will say:' I don't know you.” Hi Irene and Mark,
Just pointing out that it actually says,
'Many will say to me in that day, Lord, lord, have we not in thy name prophesied? and in thy name cast out demons? and in thy name done many mighty things? and then I will acknowledge to them, that — I never knew you, depart from me ye who are working lawlessness.
So it seems to be so called believers who do great things (prophets, people who claim to deliver people of demons, and other mighty works maybe including healers, musicians, all done in the name of the Lord)
If someone goes to church and professes to follow the Lord, yet feels nothing much for anyone, actually believes others will be fried in hell torment forever and ever, hates their neighbour, loves their money and possesions, wouldn't they be the ones who you could imagine Jesus says “away from me, workers of lawlessness” because,
The law is Love the Lord thy God with all of your heart and all of your mind and all of your soul…..And love your neighbor as yourself. (hard to do sometimes, but pray whenever you feel the need to retaliate..it works),
But see how it says “He who is doing the will of my Father in Heaven”, what is His will ? Love. (Not just fake artificial, all for show, what can I get out of this sort of love but real love. Love where you would die for the person/people, and remember where two or three are gathered..)
And Jesus did say, Matthew 25:31
`Then shall the king say to those on his right hand, Come ye, the blessed of my Father, inherit the reign that hath been prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I did hunger, and ye gave me to eat; I did thirst, and ye gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and ye received me; naked, and ye put around me; I was infirm, and ye looked after me; in prison I was, and ye came unto me.
`Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when did we see thee hungering, and we nourished? or thirsting, and we gave to drink? and when did we see thee a stranger, and we received? or naked, and we put around ?and when did we see thee infirm, or in prison, and we came unto thee?
`And the king answering, shall say to them, Verily I say to you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] to one of these my brethren — the least — to me ye did [it].
Then shall he say also to those on the left hand, Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers; for I did hunger, and ye gave me not to eat; I did thirst, and ye gave me not to drink; a stranger I was, and ye did not receive me; naked, and ye put not around me; infirm, and in prison, and ye did not look after me.
`Then shall they answer, they also, saying, Lord, when did we see thee hungering, or thirsting, or a stranger, or naked, or infirm, or in prison, and we did not minister to thee?
`Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say to you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of these, the least, ye did [it] not to me. And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'
My question is, if someone does good to others, lives humbly, treats people kindly and never truly knew Jesus the saviour, through no fault of their own, could they have a place in Gods kingdom for just their good deeds, kindness, good heart, and own suffering alone ? Iv often wondered that.
Thank you for your concern and love that you show, I really appreciate that. i know what you believe and so there is no other words that I can say to you…May God bless you, Your question, I believe cannot be answered by a Human, you will have to either ask God for that answer or wait until Christ returns….My personal feeling is, if they do not believe any wrong doctrine like the trinity, and do not participate in any rituals, they have nothing to fear….. otherwise Scripture in Math. 15:9 applies to them….. Peace IreneQuote (mikeangel @ Oct. 04 2010,19:32) Hey Irene, I am sorry I came out swinging. I was away for a bit and when I came back I saw where you thought I had backed down under pressure, so I got a little edgy. My problem with the church is not the trinity. I said before that I have bigger things to compalin about than defining God. Both of us cannot. God the creator made all things. God the son died for me, and God the holy sprit remains with me so I am not an orphan until Jesus gets back. Thats what I believe. Thats the point. Jesus did say that God was greater than he was. But right before he died, and was perfected, He said this NIV–John 14 v7 If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on you know him and have seen him” v8 Phillip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that would be enough for us.” v9 Jesus answered, “Don't you know me, Phillip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.” What would you say to Jesus ? ” but Jesus you are seperate ” I'd hate to see what he said to that. We both have common ground that we can fellowship on. We love God and Jesus and depend on his blessings and salvation, right? We both find it against scripture what tha RCC has professed that is not in the bible. Neither of us like the statues, prayers or intercessions, titles or arrogance of the church, just for a start. Believe it or not I agree with you! I just take a differant approach to it. I want to make a differance by remaining inside, and bringing it up out of love. I do that. I honor God by putting my faith into action as well as let the church how much like the pharisees they have become. Have my letters ended up in their trash cans ? I don;t care. God knows I tried and did my best, which is all God asks of me. I'm starting a big Job tomorrow so it may be a day or two, but I will get back to you. In the mean time Godbless and take care- Mark
hi Marki just but in ,in relation to your coment; I just take a differant approach to it. I want to make a differance by remaining inside,;;————-
this approche of yours reminded me of the 1600 century “”
Jansenism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, searchCornelius Jansen (1585–1638), professor at the Old University of Louvain, after whom Jansenism was named.Jansenism was a theology and a movement, condemned as a heresy by Pope Innocent X in 1655, that arose in the frame of the Counter-Reformation and the aftermath of the Council of Trent (1545–1563). It emphasized original sin, human depravity, the necessity of divine grace, and predestination. Originating in the writings of the Dutch theologian Cornelius Otto Jansen, Jansenism formed a distinct movement within the Catholic Church from the 16th to 18th centuries, and found its most important stronghold in the Parisian convent of Port-Royal, haven for many important theologians and writers (Antoine Arnauld, Pierre Nicole, Blaise Pascal, Jean Racine, etc.).
The term itself was coined by its Jesuit opponents, who accused them of being close to Calvinists, as Jansenists identified themselves as rigorous followers of Augustinism.[1] Several propositions supported by Jansenists, in particular concerning the relationship between humans' free will and “efficacious grace”, were condemned by the Pope, and the
they tried to change the churche from the inside out.after the death of Blaise Pasquale ,the churche burned down Port Royale,
why you think Jesus did not joined any of the denominations of his time ? he said you do not put new wine in old containers.
and why you think Revelation says ;Rev 18:4 Then I heard another voice from heaven say:
“Come out of her, my people,
so that you will not share in her sins,
so that you will not receive any of her plagues;like i tolded you before be ware ,and see
Pierre
Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 05 2010,21:20) Mark, good verse, thanks. And Irene, thankyou,
God bless you both.
shimmer! Which Scripture did you think Mark gave that was good?” IreneQuote (Baker @ Oct. 06 2010,09:43) Which Scripture did you think Mark gave that was good? Hi Irene, it was this that I thought was good, a reply Mark gave to my question of what will happen to those who were really good hearted caring people who never heard the truth of God and Jesus…
Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 04 2010,22:56) Shimmer, For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness, and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus. (Romans 2:14-16) Also it is interesting that Jesus said that the end wouldn't come until the good news was heard over the whole world. Godbless
Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 06 2010,10:27) Quote (Baker @ Oct. 06 2010,09:43) Which Scripture did you think Mark gave that was good? Hi Irene, it was this that I thought was good, a reply Mark gave to my question of what will happen to those who were really good hearted caring people who never heard the truth of God and Jesus…
Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 04 2010,22:56) Shimmer, For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness, and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus. (Romans 2:14-16) Also it is interesting that Jesus said that the end wouldn't come until the good news was heard over the whole world. Godbless
Shimmer, I reread what you said and what Mark said. In today's society everybody knows Christ. He was talking about the Gentiles. The Gentiles are all those who are not Jews. And it all depends if they had a chance to be baptized or just ignored everything the Bible teaches. It is up to the individual to find out what the Bible says. Today many do just that, ignore and live their lives the way they want to. My concerns always was about the Unborn Children that were aborted. They will have a chance when Christ returns to know Christ. My Husband thinks those also who never knew Christ will have a chance to know Him in the Millenium. Judgement is on the House of God right now….. You either with God or not….. God has given us to Christ and Christ says He will not loose us….. As far as the Law is concerned Scriptures say in Ephesians 2:5 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves it is the gift from God.
verse 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.verse 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
All of that however gives us no license to sin. Paul is sometimes hard to understand. Jesus did give us the New Covenant and the Great Commandment. He also magnified the Law on the Sermon on the Mount. And told us that the road is steep and few will find it…..And when you look at society in general you see that the few are with God…..
Also remember that Sin is not imputed to us….. Paul is saying this, and of hand I don't remember where that Scripture is…..We just can't just ignore all of this and say that those are saved, just by their laws….everyone of us has to go by what God says and not what we say……Marks answer is not exactly right…. He also believes that the trinity is right. And I don 't know what He believes about the New Covenant. Most Churches believe in the Ten Commandments which was the Old Covenant and not the New and void………Peace Irene
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