Ezekiel 37

[942767]

Hi J42:

You say:

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Marty Those of Israel prior to Jesus are not saved by faith. They are judged according to the LAW. A much harsher judgement. But there would of been those who practised and obeyed the Law with all their hearts before Christ came. Maybe these are the ones that get to go into the kingdom for the 1000 years, and a few others also before the Old Law came. You see, there is one requirement now. Must go through Christ. This is the new law. So them being brought back makes this possible for them and for scripture to be fulfilled. John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

I will have to disagree with you. If anyone is saved it will be by Faith, the scriptures state that to be so. Those who were in the OT were obeying God were righteous under whatever covenant that they were in, Noah, and Abraham, Jacob, Isaac were obeying God, but they did not do so without sin, and Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of all who are saved.

The scriptures state that “by the Law shall no man be saved”. Salvation is by faith so it might be by grace. I posted some scriptures if you will only read them. You are giving me your opinion by “saying that the Jews under the Law prior to Jesus coming are not saved by faith”. Produce the scripture which states that.

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Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. ]27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

The blood of animals did not wash away the sins of those who were under the Law in the OT, but was symbolic of the blood that would be shed for them by or Lord Jesus.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Wakeup]

Marty.

You are really confusing me.

What really do you believe?

1.What will happen at the coming?
2.The true christians will be resurrected,then what about the
rest? Be clear.
3.Then what?
4.Then what comes next? And so on.

Reveal your secrets to us.

wakeup.

[942767]

J42:

One more thing, if they were disobedient and did not repent. Yes, the have been judged by the Law, but no, their judgment was not more severe than those who reject the Lord in this NT era.

Judgement is being withheld until the end, but the severity of the judgment will be progressively greater the more revelation of God's plan each generation has.

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Hebrews 10 King James Version (KJV) 10 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, 16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. 19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 21 And having an high priest over the house of God; 22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) 24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: 25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[NickHassan]

Hi J42,
“A priests job is to teach things pertaining to God.”
Scripture please

[942767]

Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 29 2014,08:55)

Marty. You are really confusing me. What really do you believe? 1.What will happen at the coming? 2.The true christians will be resurrected,then what about the   rest? Be clear. 3.Then what? 4.Then what comes next? And so on. Reveal your secrets to us. wakeup.

Wakeup:

All who have obeyed God including those in the OT are part of the body of Christ, and will be raised from the dead by the Spirit of God when Jesus comes for God's people.

Those in the OT who are not saved have already been judged.  The are dead.  Those in Noah's day were destroyed by the flood.  Those who were under the Law who were disobedient and did not repent were judged by the Law and they are dead.  None of these will be resurrected to incur additional judgment.

Those in the NT who are not saved will be judged according to their works after the resurrection of the body of Christ.

If they are unsaved and are alive when the Lord comes for the church, they will have received the mark of the beast, and will be judged by the seven last plagues.

If they have died in their sins in the NT period of time, they will be resurrected after the 1000 year period, and judged according to their works, and destroyed in the second death.

That is the way that I understand the scriptures.

I hope that this has cleared up the confusion.

I don't have any secrets.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Wakeup]

Thank you brother for your respond to my questions.

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All who have obeyed God including those in the OT are part of the body of Christ, and will be raised from the dead by the Spirit of God when Jesus comes for God's people.

THE ONES BEFORE JESUS,WILL NOT BE RESURRECTED
BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN JESUS.
JEUS IS THE DOOR;EVERYONE MUST GO THROUGH JESUS.
BUT THE *CHOSEN* JEWS WILL BE BROUGHT BACK IN THE FLESH AND PUT IN ISRAEL.THEY WILL BE RULED BY THE SAINTS.

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Those in the OT who are not saved have already been judged. The are dead. Those in Noah's day were destroyed by the flood. Those who were under the Law who were disobedient and did not repent were judged by the Law and they are dead. None of these will be resurrected to incur additional judgment.

EVERY PERSON THAT EVER LIVED WILL BE BROUGHT BACK *OR* RESURRECTED.ALL THE GRAVES WILL BE OPENED.
THE ONES THAT HAVE NOT KNOWN JESUS WILL BE BROUGHT BACK IN THE SECOND JUDGEMENT.

THE *CHOSEN* JEWS *ONLY* WILL BE BROUGHT BACK IN THE FIRST RESURRECTION AND PUT BACK IN ISRAEL.
THEY WILL BE THE POPULATION IN PARADISE.
THE SAINTS WILL BE RESURRECTED IN SPIRIT AND RULE OVER THEM.

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Those in the NT who are not saved will be judged according to their works after the resurrection of the body of Christ.

JESUS WAS RESURRECTED FIRST. IN THE FIRST RESURRECTION;THOSE THAT ARE NOT IN CHRIST WILL NOT BE JUDGED AT THE COMING;BUT IN THE SECOND RESURRECTION.THE SAINTS IN CHRIST WILL BE RESURRECTED IN A SPIRIT BODY.

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If they are unsaved and are alive when the Lord comes for the church, they will have received the mark of the beast, and will be judged by the seven last plagues.

THE SEVEN TRUMPETS IS THE WRATH OF GOD ON BABYLON.
THIS WILL COME BEFORE THE COMING.
ALL WITH THE MARK WILL NOT BE RESURRECTED.
THEY THAT ARE STILL ALIVE WILL BE PART OF THE GENTILES OUTSIDE THE KINGDOM.THEY WILL BE JUDGED IN THE SECOND RESURRECTION WITH THE REST OF ALL THE GENTILES.

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If they have died in their sins in the NT period of time, they will be resurrected after the 1000 year period, and judged according to their works, and destroyed in the second death.

THIS I PARTLY AGREE WITH.EXCEPT NOT ONLY THEM IN THE NT; BUT ALL PEOPLE OF ALL RELIGIONS WILL BE JUDGED ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS IN THE SECOND JUDGEMENT.

wakeup.

[942767]

Hi Wakeup:

Did Abraham or David Know Jesus? Did Moses tell the Nation of Israel about the Messiah? Whether of not they knew him like we know him now, he gave his life for them, and he shed his blood for them, and his blood wipes away all of their sins. They will know him when he comes for the church.

This is what David stated:

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Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. 25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: 26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: 27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

This is what the scriptures state about Abraham:

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Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. 11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable. 13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city. 17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: 19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

Moses told the nation of Israel about Jesus here:

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Deut 18:15 The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; 16 According to all that thou desiredst of the Lord thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. 17 And the Lord said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. 18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. 20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.

Isaiah told them about Jesus here:

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Isaiah 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? 2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. 9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

As for the judgment in the OT:

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Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Mo ses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

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Gen 6:11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. 12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. 13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

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1 Corinthians 10 King James Version (KJV) 10 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. 7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. 8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. 10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

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Hebrews 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: 25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

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John 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak

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John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice

The seven trumpets are judgments mingled with mercy, this is not what I am calling the final judgment on those who are living and are not saved when the Lord comes for the church. The wrath of God on those is poured out in the seven last plagues:

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Revelation 15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

I hope that this helps your understanding. It has taken years of study to come to this conclusion. If you have any other questions, I will try to answer them.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[journey42]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 29 2014,04:58)

Hi J42, So it is a deduction you have arrived at. Despite the Spirit of truth being in them you see the need for human help?

Nick

The saints will NOT BE HUMAN, in the 1000 year kingdom,
only the Israelites.
The Israelites will have to EARN that holy spirit also,
just like we have to now by filling ourselves with the flesh of Christ.
They will have to FEED on the FLESH OF CHRIST also,
and the holy spirit will grow and increase in them.
They will need teachers to guide them,
Christ and the saints.

Your questions are showing that you still do not get it.

[NickHassan]

Hi J42,
We will still be sons of man.
The Holy Spirit is never earned but given.

You cannot teach from your expectations but only what is written

[journey42]

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I will have to disagree with you.  If anyone is saved it will be by Faith, the scriptures state that to be so.  Those who were in the OT were obeying God were righteous under whatever covenant that they were in, Noah, and Abraham, Jacob, Isaac were obeying God, but they did not do so without sin, and Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of all who are saved.

Marty

Noah had faith.  He was not born under the Law.
Abraham's had faith.  He was not born under the Law,
Abraham begat Isaac, who was not born under the Law,
Isaac begat Jacob, who had faith, also not born under the Law,
and Jacob had the 12 Sons of Israel, who were not born under the Law, but went in to Egypt and multiplied there for 430 years, until Moses freed them.  

These all will not be judged by the law.
Where there is no Law, there is no transgression,
and yes they all had faith and their faith will be accounted for righteousness.

Those under the law will be judged by the law.
and those who's righteousness was accounted for faith,
will come into the kingdom also.
We know there are 24 elders.  So this could include Abraham, Isaac, Jacob etc. but not sure,
so these could be an exception, and could be raised to spirit?
Like I said, I am not sure.

And when I mentioned this on the other post I was met with hostility from a member here.

[journey42]

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The scriptures state that “by the Law shall no man be saved”.  Salvation is by faith so it might be by grace.  I posted some scriptures if you will only read them.  You are giving me your opinion by “saying that the Jews under the Law prior to Jesus coming are not saved by faith”.  Produce the scripture which states that.

Romans 2:12  For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

How hard would it be not to sin in the law?

The ones that loved God with all their hearts, and kept the law, I say, would be worthy to be brought back and experience this beautiful city prepared for them, so they can be filled and know their Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ, and have that spirit of truth in them, which has to be obtained before they can be turned to spirit.  
They are not forgotten, but must go through this “process”.
then they will be “saved”, not first, but “last”.

Take Job for instance,
He had enormous faith,
but said this;

Job 19:26   And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

Job will see God in his flesh.  This proves he will not be raised to spirit, but will be among those in Ezekiel 37 who will be brought back into the 1000 year kingdom in his FLESH.

We have to consider everything written and given to us.  This was not written for fun, but for our benefit, to put another small piece of the puzzle into the picture.

[journey42]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 29 2014,09:01)

Hi J42, “A priests job is to teach things pertaining to God.” Scripture please

Nick

I've answered this already for you.
You claim to know everything, and don't even know what the role of a priest is?

Get a dictionary.

[Wakeup]

Quote (942767 @ Mar. 29 2014,11:10)

Hi Wakeup: Did Abraham or David Know Jesus?  Did Moses tell the Nation of Israel about the Messiah?  Whether of not they knew him like we know him now, he gave his life for them, and he shed his blood for them, and his blood wipes away all of their sins.  They will know him when he comes for the church. This is what David stated: Quote Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. 25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: 26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: 27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This is what the scriptures state about Abraham: Quote Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. 11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable. 13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city. 17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: 19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure. Moses told the nation of Israel about Jesus here: Quote Deut 18:15 The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; 16 According to all that thou desiredst of the Lord thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. 17 And the Lord said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. 18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. 20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. Isaiah told them about Jesus here: Quote Isaiah 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? 2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. 9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. As for the judgment in the OT: Quote Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and d eath by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. Quote Gen 6:11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. 12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. 13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth. Quote 1 Corinthians 10 King James Version (KJV) 10 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. 7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. 8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. 10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. Quote Hebrews 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: 25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? Quote John 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak Quote John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice The seven trumpets are judgments mingled  with mercy, this is not what I am calling the final judgment on those who are living and are not saved when the Lord comes for the church.  The wrath of God on those is poured out in the seven last plagues: Quote Revelation 15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God. I hope that this helps your understanding.  It has taken years of study to come to this conclusion.  If you have any other questions, I will try to answer them. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty.

Matthew 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

Abraham Isaac and Jacob and Job will be in the kingdom.
and many chosen jews;but must go through the teachings of christ.And the saints will teach them.

You still have not discovered that there are two *types* of resurrections.

1.The resurrection of the saints, resurrected in spirit form.
They will teach and rule for a thousand years,over the
jews.

2.The bringing back to life of the chosen jews;this includes
Abraham. All in the flesh, to go through the teachings of
Christ. They will be in paradise with the thief also.
They will multiply like the stars of heaven.
They will live to a hundred years with no pain no sorrows
no wars.The lion will eat straw.
They will plant and build houses.Knowledge will cover the
earth as the sea cover the earth.

3.They will be resurrected in the second resurrection in spirit
form.

4. All the gentiles of past and present of all religions will be
brought back to life to be judged according to their works.
the sheep put on the right and the goats on the left.

5. There will be two resurrections and two judgements.
The first is at the coming.
The gentile *survivors* and christians with the mark
can not enter paradise: kingdom on earth.
They live outside with the gentile nations,and their
children will be taught by the jews.

wakeup.

[journey42]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 29 2014,11:53)

Hi J42, We will still be sons of man. The Holy Spirit is never earned but given. You cannot teach from your expectations but only what is written

Nick

When we are resurrected we will be SPIRIT.  Therefore we will be Sons of God, and not sons of man anymore.
One big happy Spirit family.
Those in the kingdom that will be taught will be still men.
This kingdom we are speaking of is not the kingdom IN HEAVEN, where flesh and blood cannot inherit,
but the Kingdom on Earth, where flesh can dwell WITH SPIRIT..
the saints can travel to and fro obviously..but not the rest.

The holy spirit HAS to be earned.
You don't just get the holy spirit from believing,
you may get a small measure, but it has to grow.
The more we feed on scripture, the more we know.
The more we know, the holy spirit is added to give a little help, so we can learn more.
and it goes on and on, measure by measure.
The holy spirit is the SPIRIT OF TRUTH.
You cannot receive this if you are believing in a false doctrine.  It is just not possible.
You cannot receive this in abundance if you keep fighting the truth.
And you cannot receive this if you keep throwing stones.

It is a gift that is earned, and we earn it by feeding on the scriptures,
a little reward to keep it exciting for us, and to continue.
It will keep us from being deceived.

[942767]

Hi wakeup:

All you are giving me are your opinions, and I cannot accept them without scripture to back what you say.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Quote (journey42 @ Mar. 29 2014,12:40)

Quote The scriptures state that “by the Law shall no man be saved”.  Salvation is by faith so it might be by grace.  I posted some scriptures if you will only read them.  You are giving me your opinion by “saying that the Jews under the Law prior to Jesus coming are not saved by faith”.  Produce the scripture which states that. Romans 2:12  For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; How hard would it be not to sin in the law? The ones that loved God with all their hearts, and kept the law, I say, would be worthy to be brought back and experience this beautiful city prepared for them, so they can be filled and know their Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ, and have that spirit of truth in them, which has to be obtained before they can be turned to spirit.   They are not forgotten, but must go through this “process”. then they will be “saved”, not first, but “last”. Take Job for instance, He had enormous faith, but said this; Job 19:26   And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Job will see God in his flesh.  This proves he will not be raised to spirit, but will be among those in Ezekiel 37 who will be brought back into the 1000 year kingdom in his FLESH. We have to consider everything written and given to us.  This was not written for fun, but for our benefit, to put another small piece of the puzzle into the picture.

Hi J42:

And so Jews who were under the law were judged by the Law, and those who practiced sin defiantly were judged and destroyed, but those who were obeying the Law, obeyed but not without sin, and so, by the Law they are condemned because the wages is sin is death or spiritual separation from God.  All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, but some practiced sin willfully while stating that they would obey the Law.  There is a difference between practicing sin, and commiting a sin inadvertently or even willfully.

But Jesus gave his life as the propitiation for their sins, and so, when Jesus comes for the church, they will be part of the resurrection.  They will be raised from spiritual death unto life by the Holy Spirit.

Yes, Job said he will see God, and Jesus has told us that he who has seen me has seen the Father, and so, they will see Jesus when he comes for the church, but was Job talking about this or was he referring to the following:

Quote

Job 42:1 Then Job answered the LORD, and said, Job 42:2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee. Job 42:3 Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not. Job 42:4 Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. Job 42:5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.

Please don't insult  me by telling me that the scriptures were not written just for fun.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Wakeup]

Quote (942767 @ Mar. 30 2014,00:15)

Hi wakeup: All you are giving me are your opinions, and I cannot accept them without scripture to back what you say. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty.

You should understand that the big picture
is not on display for every one to see.
But it is hidden in many prophesies and scriptures,and is for us to find.
And link them together.

One that have not seen the true picture can not say;
that it is false. And say,show me the scriptures.
You have to investigate first;by comparing prophecy with prophecy; then make your judgement.

Compare the picture you have been given with all the prophesies,and link them together, and you will see the holes.

wakeup.

[journey42]

942767,Mar. wrote:

[/quote]

Quote

Hi J42: And so Jews who were under the law were judged by the Law, and those who practiced sin defiantly were judged and destroyed, but those who were obeying the Law, obeyed but not without sin, and so, by the Law they are condemned because the wages is sin is death or spiritual separation from God.  All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, but some practiced sin willfully while stating that they would obey the Law.  There is a difference between practicing sin, and commiting a sin inadvertently or even willfully.

Yes there is a difference Marty, and I agree with you.

Quote

But Jesus gave his life as the propitiation for their sins, and so, when Jesus comes for the church, they will be part of the resurrection.  They will be raised from spiritual death unto life by the Holy Spirit.

Jesus gave his life for anyone who wants to come to God now through him.  He did not die for the whole world, but took on the sins of the whole world.
He did not die for those already dead, their works go with them to the grave, but he died for those who would come after his resurrection.
Every man is saved because of MERCY, and not because of faith.  Like you said, no man is perfect.
The Jews before Christ did not know him, but they will be given a chance.  This is mercy.

John 17:9   I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

Quote

Yes, Job said he will see God, and Jesus has told us that he who has seen me has seen the Father, and so, they will see Jesus when he comes for the church, but was Job talking about this or was he referring to the following: Job 42:1 Then Job answered the LORD, and said, Job 42:2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee. Job 42:3 Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not. Job 42:4 Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. Job 42:5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.

You are missing the point I was making with Job.
Job said in my FLESH I will see God.
He will return IN THE FLESH.  And not in the SPIRIT.
So this proves that he will not be resurrected into spirit and will not be automatically given the holy spirit.
It is agreeing with what this conversation is about.
The Jews in Ezekiel 37 will be brought back in the FLESH, in the 1000 year kingdom,
and what Job said is proof.

Quote

Please don't insult  me that the scriptures were not written just for fun.

Marty I did not mean to insult you and sorry if you feel that way.  You are making me out to be a meany!  This is what I said.

Quote

We have to consider everything written and given to us.  This was not written for fun, but for our benefit, to put another small piece of the puzzle into the picture.

Everything written in the scriptures is for a reason.  There are many little clues here and there.

[journey42]

Everyone who is the slightest bit interested in this topic, is going to have to do their own investigating.  That means getting out your bibles and going to the chapters and reading for yourselves.
We cannot do all your homework.
We have put the feelers out,
now you can make up your own minds.
It will always be in the back of your mind that there is a chance you have not picked up on some details, so when you come across some scriptures in your search, you will have to pinpoint where in the grand plan everything fits in.

Just remember that WE DID NOT WRITE THE SCRIPTURES.
but pointing them out to you to do some thinking for yourselves, so you can know this also.
We are not keeping any “secret knowledge” to ourselves, because all knowledge comes from God and should be shared with the brethren.
The sheep will hear Christ's voice.

So please don't shoot the messenger,
and because we say we are messengers,
that does not make us angels!

[NickHassan]

Hi J42,
“Get a dictionary.”
No we do not learn of scriptural ways from the world.

Show it is scripture

[Author]

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