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Quote (942767 @ May 06 2012,07:23) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 05 2012,14:29) Quote (942767 @ May 05 2012,04:12) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 04 2012,09:44) Quote (942767 @ May 04 2012,06:40) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 02 2012,14:08) Quote (942767 @ May 02 2012,12:39) Hi BD: This is what the bible states:
Genesis17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, [and] with his seed after him.
Gen 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation
Gen 17:21 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
Gen 17:22But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.
Gen17:23 And he left off talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.
God's “firstborn” and heir is Jesus, His Only Begotten and His Christ.
Gen 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell;
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, , whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.
Love in Christ,
Marty
What does firstborn from the dead mean? Many people were raised to life after death so what does that mean?
Hi BD:“firstborn from the dead” means that he is the first person to be raised from the dead to eternal life by the Spirit of God.
When an individual dies in their sins, they are spiritually separated from from God.
Jesus was condemned to death by the Pharisees being accused of blasphemy, and he was crucified signifying that he was eternally separated from God because of this sin, but God judged him to be not guilty of sin, and raised him from the dead to eternal life.
Quote Rev 1:18 I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. Love in Christ,
Marty
Then why did Paul call him cursed?Galatians 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:So where is the part of God judging him not guilty?
Of course I do not believe that Jesus was ever cursed in any way for any reason
Hi BD:Paul said: “he was made a curse for us”. He did not say that “he was cursed”.
What is meant is that all of humanity has sinned, and if no one has obeyed God without sin, then all of humanity is spiritually separated from God. The curse of the Law to all who have sinned is that it brings forth condemnation.
Quote Gal 3:10 ¶ For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. Quote Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.Jesus fulfilled the Law by obeying God without sin even unto death of the cross, and so, although the Sanhedrin judged him guilty of blasphemy which means that he was accursed or spiritually separated from God, God judged him to be not guilty, and you ask where is this shown. It is shown by the fact that God raised him from the dead. If he had in sin, he would have been spiritually separated from God, and there would be no resurrection from the dead.
Quote Act 2:22 ¶ Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Act 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Act 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Quote Rom 1:1 ¶ Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called [to be] an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, Rom 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Rom 1:4 And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Quote Hbr 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, [which are] the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Hbr 9:25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
Hbr 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Hbr 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Hbr 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Quote Rev 1:18 I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyIf God found him innocent then he didn't pay the price. I agree that Jesus was never cursed but Paul does not he even quotes “Cursed is everyone who hangeth from a tree” pointing out that Jesus became a curse in place of the sinners.
You say that God rejected that idea that Jesus was accursed and instead blessed him for being obedient. I agree with you but to reconcile Paul's statement and your belief I have to believe what I believe that Because Jesus was innocent God saved him from the curse of being hanged on a cross.
I believe that everyone who believes on his innocencewill not perish but have everlasting life for Jesus even said himself.
Matthew 12:7
But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Matthew 12:6-8Notice he says nothing about taking anyones place or being a Sacrifice he is clearly saying that there condemnation of him is in no way good insisting that he is guilt free so I agree with him and the Quran:
Behold! Allah said: “O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #55)
Hi BD:Man has the power to kill the body and the devil has the power to entice you to sin against God through men who will threaten to do this or that to you if you do not obey them or they may entice you to sin against God by offering you this or that or in some other way.
Jesus overcame sin and the consequences of sin which is death (spiritual death or eternal separation from God) by obeying God without sin in spite of what men could do or did to him, and so, yes, in this way he paid the price. Because God raised him from the dead, and is alive forever more, he can intercede for anyone who desires to be reconcile to God through him, asking God to forgive the person's sins.
Here is an example:
Quote Act 2:22 ¶ Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Act 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Act 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Act 2:25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
Act 2:26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
Act 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Act 2:28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
Act 2:29 Men [and] brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.
These men actually took part in crucifying Jesus and they repented and God forgave them.
Another example is the Apostle Paul who basically was a partaker in the stoning of Stephen to death, and God forgave him when he repented.
When Stephen was being stoned to death, he asked God not to impute this sin to them. Of course, they would have to repent. The Apostle Paul had consented to Stephen's death and was forgiven.
Quote Act 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon
[God], and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.Act 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
Quote r 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and [offering] for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure [therein]; which are offered by the law; Hbr 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Hbr 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all].
Hbr 10:11 ¶ And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Hbr 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Hbr 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
Hbr 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Hbr 10:15 [Whereof] the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Hbr 10:16 This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Hbr 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Hbr 10:18 Now where remission of these [is, there is] no more offering for sin.
Hbr 10:19 ¶ Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Hbr 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Hbr 10:21 And [having] an high priest over the house of God;
Hbr 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Hbr 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of [our] faith without wavering; (for he [is] faithful that promised;)
If he had not obeyed God without sin, and had not been raised from the dead, there would not be any accountability to God for our sins, but because Jesus has been made both Lord and Christ, there is a day of judgment coming. He paid the price for the first death or spiritual separation from God for all men, but if they choose not to be reconciled to God through him, the second death or eternal separation from God will borne by that person who has rejected his Word.
Quote Jhn 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. Jhn 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Jhn 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Jhn 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Jhn 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak
Quote 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by [that] man whom he hath ordained; [whereof] he hath given assurance unto all [men], in that he hath raised him from the dead. Act 17:32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this [matter].
Quote v 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death
Love in Christ,
Marty
I don't really have much to dispute about what you are saying because I agree in principle.Luke 9:60
Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.Hi BD:
In principle? If Jesus did not obey the Law of God without sin even unto death, and was not raised by God from the dead, there is no accountability to God for sin, and there is no resurrection from the dead.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (bodhitharta @ May 06 2012,12:45) Quote (Ed J @ May 05 2012,14:57) So much for YOU believing the words of Jesus then; right, Asana Bodhitharta? “Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them,
and they that are great exercise authority upon them. But it shall not
be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him
be your minister; And whosoever will be chief among you, let him
be your servant: Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto,
but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.” (Matt 20:25-28)B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)
To give your life does not mean to give up your life. Moses gave his life as well and so do all prophets that's why Jonah was hesitant because he was called to give his life for the cause of God.
SpinQuote (942767 @ May 06 2012,13:17) Hi BD: In principle? If Jesus did not obey the Law of God without sin even unto death, and was not raised by God from the dead, there is no accountability to God for sin, and there is no resurrection from the dead.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi MartyIf the flesh profiteth nothing en the only accountability to God is repentence and thanksgiving.The resurrection was already a matter of fact don't you remember Jesus discussing it?
Matthew 22:29-32
King James Version (KJV)
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
The point here is the resurrection of the dead at the Judgement has nothing to do with Jesus being crucified if that i the case then I always point out Lazarus and many others who were raised from the dead.
We both agree that Jesus is Living and that's the point. He didn't come to die or bring death:
John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.Cn you show me scripture where God Himself is saying that Jesus has to die or pay any sort of price for the sins of others?
Hi BD:
Salvation is a gift from God. It is good that you have repented, but now that you have repented, can you obey the Law of God without sinning if only inadvertantly? If not, you are still dead in your sins to God. You cannot earn salvation through good works. It is not what you can do for God but what he has done for humanity in the person of His Only Begotten Son and His Christ.
Salvation is a gift from God. Salvation is by “faith” (believing God's Word) so that it might be by grace (unmerited).
I don't know anything more than I can discuss with you to show you the truth. If Jesus did not obey God without sin unto death, and if God did not raise him from the dead, there is no resurrection from the dead, but the good news is that you can be reconciled to God by coming to God with a repentant heart believing what God has done for you in the person of Jesus Christ.
Quote Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Quote Rom 10:1 ¶ Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. Rom 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Rom 10:4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Rom 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down [from above]
Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ May 07 2012,11:34) Hi BD: Salvation is a gift from God. It is good that you have repented, but now that you have repented, can you obey the Law of God without sinning if only inadvertantly? If not, you are still dead in your sins to God. You cannot earn salvation through good works. It is not what you can do for God but what he has done for humanity in the person of His Only Begotten Son and His Christ.
Salvation is a gift from God. Salvation is by “faith” (believing God's Word) so that it might be by grace (unmerited).
I don't know anything more than I can discuss with you to show you the truth. If Jesus did not obey God without sin unto death, and if God did not raise him from the dead, there is no resurrection from the dead, but the good news is that you can be reconciled to God by coming to God with a repentant heart believing what God has done for you in the person of Jesus Christ.
Quote Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Quote Rom 10:1 ¶ Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. Rom 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Rom 10:4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Rom 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down [from above]
Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Love in Christ,
Marty
HI MartyWe both agree that Salvation is a gift from God.
Mark 1:4
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.Luke 24:47
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning atActs 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.Every case in every way it is the remission of sins through repentance. People who John baptized didn't have to go get another baptism.The whole point of John coming and leading the way for Jesus was to prepare people that salvation was not something solely in the law it was in repentance and not sacrificing rituals that never led to true repentance.
Acts 2:22
Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:Jesus showed that God did not need a Hiearchy that keeps the people out
Matthew 18:3
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heavenWe are never dead because of sin, people are only dead when they they cannot Love, forget Mercy an Compassion
That's why a Sacrifice is so prevalent in your view somehow you believe God wanted Sacrifice when I have shown you several times.
Hosea 6:6
For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offeringsBut you keep insisting tht God wanted Sacrifice the only Sacrifice Godever wanted was the sacrifice of PRAISE:
Jeremiah 33:11
The voice of joy, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride, the voice of them that shall say, Praise the LORD of hosts: for the LORD is good; for his mercy endureth for ever: and of them that shall bring the sacrifice of praise into the house of the LORD. For I will cause to return the captivity of the land, as at the first, saith the LORD.Marty, truly I love you tell me what price can be paid to God? What does he not already own?
Psalm 50:12
King James Version (KJV)
12 If I were hungry, I would not tell thee: for the world is mine, and the fulness thereof.
Salvation is by Faith in God, I Have Faith in the Mercy of God and you have faith that a Sacrifice was made for you to establish God's Mercy. In other words you believe a work was done for you, you believe that God Almightycould not forgive you unless someone earned grace for you. Remember Grace is unmerited because God For-Gave you when he Created you so when you repent you simply turn back towards God and be For-Given. God didn't seperate anyone from him we have all gone astray
Matthew 18:12
How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?Jesus was like come back to God everyone of you, cast your burdens aside I am teaching you the truth from the beginning. God sent me, I accept you gto know God just turn away from all the garbage and give your heart to its creator.
Genesis 4:7
If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?]/B] and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.God is saying to cain simply do well and be accepted but Cain didn't listen and killed his brother and what did God do? He showed Mercy to cain ust as he had shown to Adam and Eve when instead of killing them simply threw them out the Garden
which is why Satan saidGenesis 3:4
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:Because Satan knew God was full of Mercy this i why and how he deceived them to be disobedient the proof of this is in Jonah
Jonah 3:10
And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.Jonah 4
1.But it displeased Jonah
exceedingly, and he was very angry.2 And he prayed unto the Lord, and said, I pray thee, O Lord, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.Isaiah 1:16-19
King James Version (KJV)
16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
This is the truth
Hi BD:
The bible is the Word of God and is the truth, but you cannot pick and choose which scriptures you believe.
Jesus preached “repent and believe the gospel”, and he stated: “that except a man is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kindom of God”. (Mark 1, John 3)
Quote 1Jo 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son [to be] the propitiation for our sins God does not require a sacrifice from you. He has provided the sacrifice. What he would like is for you to believe His Word.
Quote 1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. Hebrew 9 is a pretty good summary, if you care to read what is written there.
God loves you and so do I, and I hope that you will see the truth of what God has done for us in the person of His Onlly Begotten Son and His Christ.
I am praying for you and your family.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ May 08 2012,14:40) Hi BD: The bible is the Word of God and is the truth, but you cannot pick and choose which scriptures you believe.
Jesus preached “repent and believe the gospel”, and he stated: “that except a man is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kindom of God”. (Mark 1, John 3)
Quote 1Jo 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son [to be] the propitiation for our sins God does not require a sacrifice from you. He has provided the sacrifice. What he would like is for you to believe His Word.
Quote 1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. Hebrew 9 is a pretty good summary, if you care to read what is written there.
God loves you and so do I, and I hope that you will see the truth of what God has done for us in the person of His Onlly Begotten Son and His Christ.
I am praying for you and your family.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Where is God saying or where is it that GOD said these things. I see the testimony of these beliefs but did you notice when God spoke in the Old Testament is actually says “God said”Can you show me a single verse that says God said I need a sacrifice or payment for your sins?
Quote (bodhitharta @ May 07 2012,14:42) HI Marty People who John baptized didn't have to go get another baptism.
This is the truth
Hi BD, you illustrate just how little you know of “The Word” of GOD.“Have ye received the HolySpirit since ye believed (BD?)? And they said unto him,
We have not so much as heard whether there be any HolySpirit. And he said unto them,
Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul,
John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they
should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they
heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” (Acts 19:2-5)
(this is something muslims never do)B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)Quote (Ed J @ May 08 2012,16:41) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 07 2012,14:42) HI Marty People who John baptized didn't have to go get another baptism.
This is the truth
Hi BD, you illustrate just how little you know of “The Word” of GOD.“Have ye received the HolySpirit since ye believed (BD?)? And they said unto him,
We have not so much as heard whether there be any HolySpirit. And he said unto them,
Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul,
John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they
should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they
heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” (Acts 19:2-5)
(this is something muslims never do)B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)
“This is the law of the sin offering: In the place where
the burnt offering is killed shall the sin offering be killed
before the LORD(YHVH): it is most holy.” (Leviticus 6:25)Quote (bodhitharta @ May 08 2012,16:35) Can you show me a single verse that says God said I need a sacrifice or payment for your sins?
See my previous post.Quote (Ed J @ May 08 2012,16:49) “This is the law of the sin offering: In the place where
the burnt offering is killed shall the sin offering be killed
before the LORD(YHVH): it is most holy.” (Leviticus 6:25)
For the new page.Quote (Ed J @ May 08 2012,16:51) Quote (Ed J @ May 08 2012,16:49) “This is the law of the sin offering: In the place where
the burnt offering is killed shall the sin offering be killed
before the LORD(YHVH): it is most holy.” (Leviticus 6:25)
For the new page.
In other words you cannot find any verse that says God need you to pay for your sins did you not notice it is called a “sin offering” Plus you left out the most important partIn regards to lambs since you call Jesus the Lamb of God
Leviticus 4:32
And if he bring a lamb for a sin offering, he shall bring it a female without blemish.The most important part you keep ignoring is this:
Leviticus 16:21
And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:22 And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness.
This is the goat that is not killed and provides atonemet for all the people and is presented ALIVE before JEHOVAH
16:10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.
Why don't you like this? This is proof of atonement without death or bloodshed. Christ was not Killed or Crucified
Quote (bodhitharta @ May 08 2012,16:35) Quote (942767 @ May 08 2012,14:40) Hi BD: The bible is the Word of God and is the truth, but you cannot pick and choose which scriptures you believe.
Jesus preached “repent and believe the gospel”, and he stated: “that except a man is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kindom of God”. (Mark 1, John 3)
Quote 1Jo 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son [to be] the propitiation for our sins God does not require a sacrifice from you. He has provided the sacrifice. What he would like is for you to believe His Word.
Quote 1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. Hebrew 9 is a pretty good summary, if you care to read what is written there.
God loves you and so do I, and I hope that you will see the truth of what God has done for us in the person of His Onlly Begotten Son and His Christ.
I am praying for you and your family.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Where is God saying or where is it that GOD said these things. I see the testimony of these beliefs but did you notice when God spoke in the Old Testament is actually says “God said”Can you show me a single verse that says God said I need a sacrifice or payment for your sins?
Hi BD:Jesus stated that it was God speaking to us through him:
Quote Jhn 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. Jhn 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Jhn 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
Love in Christ,
MartyHi BD:
If you and I and Ed do not need the sacrifice that God provided for sins, then Jesus suffered needlessly?
Quote k 24:44 ¶ And he said unto them, These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me. Luk 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
Luk 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
Luk 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ May 09 2012,15:03) Hi BD: If you and I and Ed do not need the sacrifice that God provided for sins, then Jesus suffered needlessly?
Quote k 24:44 ¶ And he said unto them, These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me. Luk 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
Luk 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
Luk 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Matthew 17:17
Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.The only tome Christ suffered was when people lacked faith in understanding what he was teaching them.
Jesus didn't suffer needlessly because he was not Killed or Crucified
Quote (bodhitharta @ May 09 2012,03:06) Quote (Ed J @ May 08 2012,16:51) Quote (Ed J @ May 08 2012,16:49) “This is the law of the sin offering: In the place where
the burnt offering is killed shall the sin offering be killed
before the LORD(YHVH): it is most holy.” (Leviticus 6:25)
For the new page.
In other words you cannot find any verse that says God need you to pay for your sins did you not notice it is called a “sin offering” Plus you left out the most important partIn regards to lambs since you call Jesus the Lamb of God
Leviticus 4:32
And if he bring a lamb for a sin offering, he shall bring it a female without blemish.The most important part you keep ignoring is this:
Leviticus 16:21
And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:22 And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness.
This is the goat that is not killed and provides atonemet for all the people and is presented ALIVE before JEHOVAH
16:10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.
Why don't you like this? This is proof of atonement without death or bloodshed. Christ was not Killed or Crucified
Hi BD, why do you continually ignore Scripture that disagrees with your theology (that you gathered from the 'book of fraud')?“And he shall take of the congregation of the children of Israel two kids of the goats for a sin offering” (Lev 16:5)
“And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the LORD's lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering.” (Lev 16:9)“Then shall he kill the goat of the sin offering, that is for the people, and bring his blood within the vail,
and do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it upon the mercy seat,
and before the mercy seat: And he shall make an atonement for the holy place, because of the
uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions in all their sins:” (Lev 16:15-16)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (bodhitharta @ May 09 2012,15:22) Jesus didn't suffer needlessly because he was not Killed or Crucified
Where is your evidence?Quote (Ed J @ May 09 2012,16:07) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 09 2012,03:06) Quote (Ed J @ May 08 2012,16:51) Quote (Ed J @ May 08 2012,16:49) “This is the law of the sin offering: In the place where
the burnt offering is killed shall the sin offering be killed
before the LORD(YHVH): it is most holy.” (Leviticus 6:25)
For the new page.
In other words you cannot find any verse that says God need you to pay for your sins did you not notice it is called a “sin offering” Plus you left out the most important partIn regards to lambs since you call Jesus the Lamb of God
Leviticus 4:32
And if he bring a lamb for a sin offering, he shall bring it a female without blemish.The most important part you keep ignoring is this:
Leviticus 16:21
And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:22 And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness.
This is the goat that is not killed and provides atonemet for all the people and is presented ALIVE before JEHOVAH
16:10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.
Why don't you like this? This is proof of atonement without death or bloodshed. Christ was not Killed or Crucified
Hi BD, why do you continually ignore Scripture that disagrees with your theology (that you gathered from the 'book of fraud')?“And he shall take of the congregation of the children of Israel two kids of the goats for a sin offering” (Lev 16:5)
“And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the LORD's lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering.” (Lev 16:9)“Then shall he kill the goat of the sin offering, that is for the people, and bring his blood within the vail,
and do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it upon the mercy seat,
and before the mercy seat: And he shall make an atonement for the holy place, because of the
uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions in all their sins:” (Lev 16:15-16)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EDThe Atonement for the People was not the sin offering
Leviticus 16:21
And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:22 And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness.
This is the goat that is not killed and provides atonemet for all the people and is presented ALIVE before JEHOVAH
16:10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.
Jesus is the Christian scapegoat they place all their sins upon him and yet they are foreign to the concept that a scapegoat must be set free alive and not killed
The Scapegoat is a goat over the head of which the high priest of the ancient Jews confessed the sins of the people on the Day of Atonement, after which it was allowed to escape
http://www.yourdictionary.com/scapegoat
Definition of SCAPEGOAT. 1: a goat upon whose head are symbolically placed the sins of the people after which he is sent into the wilderness in the biblical ceremony …
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scapegoatscape·goat (sk p g t) n. 1. One that is made to bear the blame of others. 2. Bible A live goat over whose head Aaron confessed all the sins of the children of Israel …
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/scapegoatScapegoat | Define Scapegoat at Dictionary.com
noun 1. a person or group made to bear the blame for others or to suffer in their place. 2. Chiefly Biblical . a goat let loose in the wilderness on Yom Kippur after …
dictionary.reference.com/browse/scapegoatSo why is it you want to KILL or CRUCIFY your scapegoat. Why don't you believe your scapegoat was set free.
Pontious Pilate said he wouldset him free
Luke 23:16
I will therefore chastise him, and release him.Luke 23:22
And he said unto them the third time, Why, what evil hath he done? I have found no cause of death in him: I will therefore chastise him, and let him go.3 witnesses that Pontious Pilate said he will release Jesus and you have 3 witnesses that Jesus asked to be saved from the cross in the Garden with tears and sweat dripping like blood.
Jesus asked why do you condemn the guiltless and still today you condemn Jesus so that you can have eternal life?
I don't condemn Jesus I am glad the one without sin was SAVED and SANCTIFIED but you, you need Jesus on that Cross to feel good about yourself because you can't bear your own sins.
You know when you catch a flu or hurt yourself in someway how does it ever sound Godly to say I wish someone else could bear this pain for me? The Godly person would instead say to the person in pain I wish I could bear this pain for you and if that person in pain was Godly he would then say GOD forbid you should ever feel this pain
Hi BD,
So you reject “eyewitness testimony” in favor of 'conjecture'.
Your conjecture is nothing that anyone would call “PROOF”?
“Eyewitness testimony” is enough to establish the matter.“At the mouth of three witnesses,
shall the matter be established.” (Deut 19:15)B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)
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