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Quote (bodhitharta @ May 01 2012,13:37) Quote (Ed J @ May 01 2012,07:30) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 01 2012,05:14) Quote (Ed J @ May 01 2012,03:32) Hi BD, Sarah gave Hagar to Abraham because she did not believe YHVH,
and because of the progeny of Hagar YOU don't believe YHVH either.B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)
Why are you speculating and judging Sarah? Whatever the reason she let Abraham marry Hagar and they conceived Ishmael which means “God Hears” This is why prayer is so important for God Hears us
Hi BD,Why do you accept some of the things Sarah says and reject other things she has said?
“Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman
shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.” (Gen 21:10)Why do you accept some things YHVH says and reject others?
“Neither is there salvation in any other” (Acts 4:12)“YÄ is salvation” ([יה]+[ישע]=[יהשוע])
John 3:14-21 Even as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be [†] lifted up:
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave
his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent
not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth
on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name
of [יהשוע] the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved
darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light,
lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)
The Law says clearly that the ACTUAL FIRSTBORN shall have a double portion even if he is cast out because Sarah hated him. God Heard Hagar and God heard Ishmael his name means “God has listened”Acts 4:12
King James Version (KJV)
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
I don't disagree with this I agree that God is not included in that statement because it is God who is the Actual Saviour
Isaiah 43:11
I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
God sends the person and that person is the vicegerant of God
Isaiah 19:20
And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the LORD of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the LORD because of the oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them.Moses was a Saviour and at that time if you didn't follow him or believe in him you were an unbeliever and had no salvation
but still God is always the actual Saviour unless you believe that Jesus is equal to or above God in which case you believe that this Man Jesus is God Almighty
Hi BD,Esau was born before Jacob, did he get a double portion?
You associate with Ishmael, but it is doubtless that YOUR
lineage derives from him; you do know that right, Asana?God's salvation is in Jesus' very name!
You should not reject his ransom sacrifice for your sins.B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)Quote (Ed J @ May 01 2012,14:45) Quote Hi BD, Esau was born before Jacob, did he get a double portion?
The Law is talking about a man that has two wives
Deuteronomy 21:15
If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated:…Quote You associate with Ishmael, but it is doubtless that YOUR
lineage derives from him; you do know that right, Asana?This is not an issue of lineage it is simply an issue of Spirirual lineage in which you find legitimacy for the root of Islam springing from Abraham the “father” of our Faith
Quote God's salvation is in Jesus' very name!
You should not reject his ransom sacrifice for your sins.Yes, God's salvation is in Jesus' name but how does that have anything to do with Sacrifice? If Salvation is in his name then it is Mercy not Sacrifice that it implies for he came to “Save” i.e. Mercy and not to “Condemn” i.e. Sacrifice
Quote (bodhitharta @ May 02 2012,02:10) Ed wrote:[/quote]
Quote Hi BD, Esau was born before Jacob, did he get a double portion?
(1)The Law is talking about a man that has two wives
Deuteronomy 21:15
If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated:…Quote You associate with Ishmael, but it is doubtless that YOUR
lineage derives from him; you do know that right, Asana?(2)This is not an issue of lineage it is simply an issue of Spirirual lineage in which you find legitimacy for the root of Islam springing from Abraham the “father” of our Faith
Quote God's salvation is in Jesus' very name!
You should not reject his ransom sacrifice for your sins.(3)Yes, God's salvation is in Jesus' name but how does that have anything to do with Sacrifice? (4)If Salvation is in his name then it is Mercy not Sacrifice that it implies for he came to “Save” i.e. Mercy and not to “Condemn” i.e. Sacrifice
Hi BD,1) You were talking about the law of the firstborn getting a double portion; do you deny this?
Manasseh was Jacob's firstborn, did he get a double portion?2) islam is the spirit of antichrist.
“He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.” (1John 2:22)3) That's the message of the “Gospel”. (1Cor.15:3-4)
4) spinB'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)Quote (Ed J @ May 01 2012,14:44) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 01 2012,13:11) Quote (Ed J @ May 01 2012,06:45) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 01 2012,05:14) Quote (Ed J @ May 01 2012,03:32) Hi BD, Sarah gave Hagar to Abraham because she did not believe YHVH,
and because of the progeny of Hagar YOU don't believe YHVH either.B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)
(1)Why are you speculating and judging Sarah? (2)Whatever the reason she let Abraham marry Hagar (3)and they conceived Ishmael which means “God Hears” This is why prayer is so important for God Hears us
Hi BD,1) No speculation involved!
2) “it may be that I may obtain children by her.” (Gen 16:2)
3) YHVH shuts his ears to those who are disobedient! (see Micah 3:4)Micah 3:5-7 Thus saith the LORD concerning the prophets that make my people err,
that bite with their teeth, and cry, Peace; and he that putteth not into their mouths,
they even prepare war against him. Therefore night shall be unto you, that ye shall not
have a vision; and it shall be dark unto you, that ye shall not divine; and the sun shall go down
over the prophets, and the day shall be dark over them. Then shall the seers be ashamed,
and the diviners confounded: yea, they shall all cover their lips; for there is no answer of God.The quran was written by satan the devil
“Satan himself is transformed into (Gabriel) an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing
if his (muslim) ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness;
whose end shall be according to their works.” (2 Cor 11:14-15)B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)
EDHow could Sarah have been disobedient to God when he told her that she would have a son 13 years after Ishmael was Born?
God told Abraham that he would have a son from hisown body and right afterwards Sarah gave Hagar to Abraham because God's word came true right then and there it was after God's word came true that God returned and told Sarah she was going to have a child.
God makes the promise in Genesis 15
it came true in Genesis 16
then God made another promise in Genesis 17 which was to SarahSo now you can understand the actual story instead of calling Sarah disobedient especially since you have been proven wrong
Hi BD,Are you really that biblically illiterate? Here is the promise that YHVH
made to Abraham long before the birth of the son of the bondwoman.Genesis 15:4-6 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him,
saying, This (Eliezer) shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out
of thine own bowels shall be thine heir. And he brought him forth abroad, and said,
Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said
unto him, So shall thy seed be. And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)
Settled then?Quote (Ed J @ May 02 2012,04:30) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 02 2012,02:10) Quote (Ed J @ May 01 2012,14:45) Quote Hi BD, Esau was born before Jacob, did he get a double portion?
(1)The Law is talking about a man that has two wives
Deuteronomy 21:15
If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated:…Quote You associate with Ishmael, but it is doubtless that YOUR
lineage derives from him; you do know that right, Asana?(2)This is not an issue of lineage it is simply an issue of Spirirual lineage in which you find legitimacy for the root of Islam springing from Abraham the “father” of our Faith
Quote God's salvation is in Jesus' very name!
You should not reject his ransom sacrifice for your sins.(3)Yes, God's salvation is in Jesus' name but how does that have anything to do with Sacrifice? (4)If Salvation is in his name then it is Mercy not Sacrifice that it implies for he came to “Save” i.e. Mercy and not to “Condemn” i.e. Sacrifice
Hi BD,1) You were talking about the law of the firstborn getting a double portion; do you deny this?
Manasseh was Jacob's firstborn, did he get a double portion?2) islam is the spirit of antichrist.
“He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.” (1John 2:22)3) That's the message of the “Gospel”. (1Cor.15:3-4)
4) spinB'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)
Actually I was talking about the LAW and it's fulfillment when it comes to two wives.and Genesis 15 4:6 has nothing to do with Sarah where does it say Sarah will give you the heir? But it did happen Sarah must have been inspired by God to give Hagar as a wife because that's what she did and Abraham had his Heir it was only later did Sarah have her son, 13 YEARS later.
Settled then
Hi BD:
This is what the bible states:
Genesis17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, [and] with his seed after him.
Gen 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation
Gen 17:21 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
Gen 17:22But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.
Gen17:23 And he left off talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.
God's “firstborn” and heir is Jesus, His Only Begotten and His Christ.
Gen 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell;
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, , whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ May 02 2012,12:39) Hi BD: This is what the bible states:
Genesis17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, [and] with his seed after him.
Gen 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation
Gen 17:21 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
Gen 17:22But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.
Gen17:23 And he left off talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.
God's “firstborn” and heir is Jesus, His Only Begotten and His Christ.
Gen 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell;
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, , whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.
Love in Christ,
Marty
What does firstborn from the dead mean? Many people were raised to life after death so what does that mean?Quote (bodhitharta @ May 02 2012,11:50) Quote (Ed J @ May 02 2012,04:30) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 02 2012,02:10) Quote (Ed J @ May 01 2012,14:45) Quote Hi BD, Esau was born before Jacob, did he get a double portion?
(1)The Law is talking about a man that has two wives
Deuteronomy 21:15
If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated:…Quote You associate with Ishmael, but it is doubtless that YOUR
lineage derives from him; you do know that right, Asana?(2)This is not an issue of lineage it is simply an issue of Spirirual lineage in which you find legitimacy for the root of Islam springing from Abraham the “father” of our Faith
Quote God's salvation is in Jesus' very name!
You should not reject his ransom sacrifice for your sins.(3)Yes, God's salvation is in Jesus' name but how does that have anything to do with Sacrifice? (4)If Salvation is in his name then it is Mercy not Sacrifice that it implies for he came to “Save” i.e. Mercy and not to “Condemn” i.e. Sacrifice
Hi BD,1) You were talking about the law of the firstborn getting a double portion; do you deny this?
Manasseh was Jacob's firstborn, did he get a double portion?2) islam is the spirit of antichrist.
“He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.” (1John 2:22)3) That's the message of the “Gospel”. (1Cor.15:3-4)
4) spinB'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)
Actually I was talking about the LAW and it's fulfillment when it comes to two wives.and Genesis 15 4:6 has nothing to do with Sarah where does it say Sarah will give you the heir? But it did happen Sarah must have been inspired by God to give Hagar as a wife because that's what she did and Abraham had his Heir it was only later did Sarah have her son, 13 YEARS later.
Settled then
Hi BD,Ishmael didn't get a double-portion either? So
do you really know what you're talking about??B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)Quote (Ed J @ May 02 2012,14:22) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 02 2012,11:50) Quote (Ed J @ May 02 2012,04:30) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 02 2012,02:10) Quote (Ed J @ May 01 2012,14:45) Quote Hi BD, Esau was born before Jacob, did he get a double portion?
(1)The Law is talking about a man that has two wives
Deuteronomy 21:15
If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated:…Quote You associate with Ishmael, but it is doubtless that YOUR
lineage derives from him; you do know that right, Asana?(2)This is not an issue of lineage it is simply an issue of Spirirual lineage in which you find legitimacy for the root of Islam springing from Abraham the “father” of our Faith
Quote God's salvation is in Jesus' very name!
You should not reject his ransom sacrifice for your sins.(3)Yes, God's salvation is in Jesus' name but how does that have anything to do with Sacrifice? (4)If Salvation is in his name then it is Mercy not Sacrifice that it implies for he came to “Save” i.e. Mercy and not to “Condemn” i.e. Sacrifice
Hi BD,1) You were talking about the law of the firstborn getting a double portion; do you deny this?
Manasseh was Jacob's firstborn, did he get a double portion?2) islam is the spirit of antichrist.
“He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.” (1John 2:22)3) That's the message of the “Gospel”. (1Cor.15:3-4)
4) spinB'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)
Actually I was talking about the LAW and it's fulfillment when it comes to two wives.and Genesis 15 4:6 has nothing to do with Sarah where does it say Sarah will give you the heir? But it did happen Sarah must have been inspired by God to give Hagar as a wife because that's what she did and Abraham had his Heir it was only later did Sarah have her son, 13 YEARS later.
Settled then
Hi BD,Ishmael didn't get a double-portion either? So
do you really know what you're talking about??B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)
Look at the Jewish population and look at the Muslim Population which is easier to count?And since Christians like yourself call the Catholic Church not the true church Christian numbers come way down as well
Quote (bodhitharta @ May 02 2012,16:07) Quote (Ed J @ May 02 2012,14:22) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 02 2012,11:50) Quote (Ed J @ May 02 2012,04:30) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 02 2012,02:10) Quote (Ed J @ May 01 2012,14:45) Quote Hi BD, Esau was born before Jacob, did he get a double portion?
(1)The Law is talking about a man that has two wives
Deuteronomy 21:15
If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated:…Quote You associate with Ishmael, but it is doubtless that YOUR
lineage derives from him; you do know that right, Asana?(2)This is not an issue of lineage it is simply an issue of Spirirual lineage in which you find legitimacy for the root of Islam springing from Abraham the “father” of our Faith
Quote God's salvation is in Jesus' very name!
You should not reject his ransom sacrifice for your sins.(3)Yes, God's salvation is in Jesus' name but how does that have anything to do with Sacrifice? (4)If Salvation is in his name then it is Mercy not Sacrifice that it implies for he came to “Save” i.e. Mercy and not to “Condemn” i.e. Sacrifice
Hi BD,1) You were talking about the law of the firstborn getting a double portion; do you deny this?
Manasseh was Jacob's firstborn, did he get a double portion?2) islam is the spirit of antichrist.
“He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.” (1John 2:22)3) That's the message of the “Gospel”. (1Cor.15:3-4)
4) spinB'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)
Actually I was talking about the LAW and it's fulfillment when it comes to two wives.and Genesis 15 4:6 has nothing to do with Sarah where does it say Sarah will give you the heir? But it did happen Sarah must have been inspired by God to give Hagar as a wife because that's what she did and Abraham had his Heir it was only later did Sarah have her son, 13 YEARS later.
Settled then
Hi BD,Ishmael didn't get a double-portion either? So
do you really know what you're talking about??B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)
Look at the Jewish population and look at the Muslim Population which is easier to count?And since Christians like yourself call the Catholic Church not the true church Christian numbers come way down as well
Hi BD,You continually show just how
little you know about God's word;
Judah is only 1/12 if the tribes of Israel.B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)Quote (Ed J @ May 02 2012,16:15) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 02 2012,16:07) Quote (Ed J @ May 02 2012,14:22) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 02 2012,11:50) Quote (Ed J @ May 02 2012,04:30) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 02 2012,02:10) Quote (Ed J @ May 01 2012,14:45) Quote Hi BD, Esau was born before Jacob, did he get a double portion?
(1)The Law is talking about a man that has two wives
Deuteronomy 21:15
If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated:…Quote You associate with Ishmael, but it is doubtless that YOUR
lineage derives from him; you do know that right, Asana?(2)This is not an issue of lineage it is simply an issue of Spirirual lineage in which you find legitimacy for the root of Islam springing from Abraham the “father” of our Faith
Quote God's salvation is in Jesus' very name!
You should not reject his ransom sacrifice for your sins.(3)Yes, God's salvation is in Jesus' name but how does that have anything to do with Sacrifice? (4)If Salvation is in his name then it is Mercy not Sacrifice that it implies for he came to “Save” i.e. Mercy and not to “Condemn” i.e. Sacrifice
Hi BD,1) You were talking about the law of the firstborn getting a double portion; do you deny this?
Manasseh was Jacob's firstborn, did he get a double portion?2) islam is the spirit of antichrist.
“He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.” (1John 2:22)3) That's the message of the “Gospel”. (1Cor.15:3-4)
4) spinB'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)
Actually I was talking about the LAW and it's fulfillment when it comes to two wives.and Genesis 15 4:6 has nothing to do with Sarah where does it say Sarah will give you the heir? But it did happen Sarah must have been inspired by God to give Hagar as a wife because that's what she did and Abraham had his Heir it was only later did Sarah have her son, 13 YEARS later.
Settled then
Hi BD,Ishmael didn't get a double-portion either? So
do you really know what you're talking about??B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)
Look at the Jewish population and look at the Muslim Population which is easier to count?And since Christians like yourself call the Catholic Church not the true church Christian numbers come way down as well
Hi BD,You continually show just how
little you know about God's word;
Judah is only 1/12 if the tribes of Israel.B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)
So now you are going tp identify the lost tribes? Guess what? If they aren't keeping the Law they still are lostQuote (bodhitharta @ May 03 2012,01:13) So now you are going tp identify the lost tribes? Guess what? If they aren't keeping the Law they still are lost
Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time
the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.Quote (bodhitharta @ May 02 2012,14:08) Quote (942767 @ May 02 2012,12:39) Hi BD: This is what the bible states:
Genesis17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, [and] with his seed after him.
Gen 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation
Gen 17:21 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
Gen 17:22But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.
Gen17:23 And he left off talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.
God's “firstborn” and heir is Jesus, His Only Begotten and His Christ.
Gen 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell;
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, , whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.
Love in Christ,
Marty
What does firstborn from the dead mean? Many people were raised to life after death so what does that mean?
Hi BD:“firstborn from the dead” means that he is the first person to be raised from the dead to eternal life by the Spirit of God.
When an individual dies in their sins, they are spiritually separated from from God.
Jesus was condemned to death by the Pharisees being accused of blasphemy, and he was crucified signifying that he was eternally separated from God because of this sin, but God judged him to be not guilty of sin, and raised him from the dead to eternal life.
Quote Rev 1:18 I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ May 04 2012,06:40) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 02 2012,14:08) Quote (942767 @ May 02 2012,12:39) Hi BD: This is what the bible states:
Genesis17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, [and] with his seed after him.
Gen 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation
Gen 17:21 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
Gen 17:22But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.
Gen17:23 And he left off talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.
God's “firstborn” and heir is Jesus, His Only Begotten and His Christ.
Gen 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell;
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, , whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.
Love in Christ,
Marty
What does firstborn from the dead mean? Many people were raised to life after death so what does that mean?
Hi BD:“firstborn from the dead” means that he is the first person to be raised from the dead to eternal life by the Spirit of God.
When an individual dies in their sins, they are spiritually separated from from God.
Jesus was condemned to death by the Pharisees being accused of blasphemy, and he was crucified signifying that he was eternally separated from God because of this sin, but God judged him to be not guilty of sin, and raised him from the dead to eternal life.
Quote Rev 1:18 I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. Love in Christ,
Marty
Then why did Paul call him cursed?Galatians 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:So where is the part of God judging him not guilty?
Of course I do not believe that Jesus was ever cursed in any way for any reason
Quote (bodhitharta @ May 04 2012,09:44) Then why did Paul call him cursed?
Hi BD,Do you ask this question again because you
don't accept the answer that I have given you?B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)Quote (bodhitharta @ May 04 2012,09:44) Quote (942767 @ May 04 2012,06:40) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 02 2012,14:08) Quote (942767 @ May 02 2012,12:39) Hi BD: This is what the bible states:
Genesis17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, [and] with his seed after him.
Gen 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation
Gen 17:21 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
Gen 17:22But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.
Gen17:23 And he left off talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.
God's “firstborn” and heir is Jesus, His Only Begotten and His Christ.
Gen 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell;
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, , whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.
Love in Christ,
Marty
What does firstborn from the dead mean? Many people were raised to life after death so what does that mean?
Hi BD:“firstborn from the dead” means that he is the first person to be raised from the dead to eternal life by the Spirit of God.
When an individual dies in their sins, they are spiritually separated from from God.
Jesus was condemned to death by the Pharisees being accused of blasphemy, and he was crucified signifying that he was eternally separated from God because of this sin, but God judged him to be not guilty of sin, and raised him from the dead to eternal life.
Quote Rev 1:18 I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. Love in Christ,
Marty
Then why did Paul call him cursed?Galatians 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:So where is the part of God judging him not guilty?
Of course I do not believe that Jesus was ever cursed in any way for any reason
Hi BD:Paul said: “he was made a curse for us”. He did not say that “he was cursed”.
What is meant is that all of humanity has sinned, and if no one has obeyed God without sin, then all of humanity is spiritually separated from God. The curse of the Law to all who have sinned is that it brings forth condemnation.
Quote Gal 3:10 ¶ For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. Quote Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.Jesus fulfilled the Law by obeying God without sin even unto death of the cross, and so, although the Sanhedrin judged him guilty of blasphemy which means that he was accursed or spiritually separated from God, God judged him to be not guilty, and you ask where is this shown. It is shown by the fact that God raised him from the dead. If he had in sin, he would have been spiritually separated from God, and there would be no resurrection from the dead.
Quote Act 2:22 ¶ Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Act 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Act 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Quote Rom 1:1 ¶ Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called [to be] an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, Rom 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Rom 1:4 And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Quote Hbr 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, [which are] the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Hbr 9:25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
Hbr 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Hbr 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Hbr 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Quote Rev 1:18 I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ May 05 2012,04:12) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 04 2012,09:44) Quote (942767 @ May 04 2012,06:40) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 02 2012,14:08) Quote (942767 @ May 02 2012,12:39) Hi BD: This is what the bible states:
Genesis17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, [and] with his seed after him.
Gen 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation
Gen 17:21 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
Gen 17:22But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.
Gen17:23 And he left off talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.
God's “firstborn” and heir is Jesus, His Only Begotten and His Christ.
Gen 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell;
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, , whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.
Love in Christ,
Marty
What does firstborn from the dead mean? Many people were raised to life after death so what does that mean?
Hi BD:“firstborn from the dead” means that he is the first person to be raised from the dead to eternal life by the Spirit of God.
When an individual dies in their sins, they are spiritually separated from from God.
Jesus was condemned to death by the Pharisees being accused of blasphemy, and he was crucified signifying that he was eternally separated from God because of this sin, but God judged him to be not guilty of sin, and raised him from the dead to eternal life.
Quote Rev 1:18 I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. Love in Christ,
Marty
Then why did Paul call him cursed?Galatians 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:So where is the part of God judging him not guilty?
Of course I do not believe that Jesus was ever cursed in any way for any reason
Hi BD:Paul said: “he was made a curse for us”. He did not say that “he was cursed”.
What is meant is that all of humanity has sinned, and if no one has obeyed God without sin, then all of humanity is spiritually separated from God. The curse of the Law to all who have sinned is that it brings forth condemnation.
Quote Gal 3:10 ¶ For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. Quote Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.Jesus fulfilled the Law by obeying God without sin even unto death of the cross, and so, although the Sanhedrin judged him guilty of blasphemy which means that he was accursed or spiritually separated from God, God judged him to be not guilty, and you ask where is this shown. It is shown by the fact that God raised him from the dead. If he had in sin, he would have been spiritually separated from God, and there would be no resurrection from the dead.
Quote Act 2:22 ¶ Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Act 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Act 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Quote Rom 1:1 ¶ Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called [to be] an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, Rom 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was ma
de of the seed of David according to the flesh;Rom 1:4 And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Quote Hbr 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, [which are] the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Hbr 9:25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
Hbr 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Hbr 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Hbr 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Quote Rev 1:18 I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyIf God found him innocent then he didn't pay the price. I agree that Jesus was never cursed but Paul does not he even quotes “Cursed is everyone who hangeth from a tree” pointing out that Jesus became a curse in place of the sinners.
You say that God rejected that idea that Jesus was accursed and instead blessed him for being obedient. I agree with you but to reconcile Paul's statement and your belief I have to believe what I believe that Because Jesus was innocent God saved him from the curse of being hanged on a cross.
I believe that everyone who believes on his innocencewill not perish but have everlasting life for Jesus even said himself.
Matthew 12:7
But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Matthew 12:6-8Notice he says nothing about taking anyones place or being a Sacrifice he is clearly saying that there condemnation of him is in no way good insisting that he is guilt free so I agree with him and the Quran:
Behold! Allah said: “O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #55)So much for YOU believing the words of Jesus then; right, Asana Bodhitharta?
“Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them,
and they that are great exercise authority upon them. But it shall not
be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him
be your minister; And whosoever will be chief among you, let him
be your servant: Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto,
but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.” (Matt 20:25-28)B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)Quote (bodhitharta @ May 05 2012,14:29) Quote (942767 @ May 05 2012,04:12) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 04 2012,09:44) Quote (942767 @ May 04 2012,06:40) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 02 2012,14:08) Quote (942767 @ May 02 2012,12:39) Hi BD: This is what the bible states:
Genesis17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, [and] with his seed after him.
Gen 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation
Gen 17:21 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
Gen 17:22But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.
Gen17:23 And he left off talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.
God's “firstborn” and heir is Jesus, His Only Begotten and His Christ.
Gen 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell;
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, , whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.
Love in Christ,
Marty
What does firstborn from the dead mean? Many people were raised to life after death so what does that mean?
Hi BD:“firstborn from the dead” means that he is the first person to be raised from the dead to eternal life by the Spirit of God.
When an individual dies in their sins, they are spiritually separated from from God.
Jesus was condemned to death by the Pharisees being accused of blasphemy, and he was crucified signifying that he was eternally separated from God because of this sin, but God judged him to be not guilty of sin, and raised him from the dead to eternal life.
Quote Rev 1:18 I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. Love in Christ,
Marty
Then why did Paul call him cursed?Galatians 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:So where is the part of God judging him not guilty?
Of course I do not believe that Jesus was ever cursed in any way for any reason
Hi BD:Paul said: “he was made a curse for us”. He did not say that “he was cursed”.
What is meant is that all of humanity has sinned, and if no one has obeyed God without sin, then all of humanity is spiritually separated from God. The curse of the Law to all who have sinned is that it brings forth condemnation.
Quote Gal 3:10 ¶ For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. Quote Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.Jesus fulfilled the Law by obeying God without sin even unto death of the cross, and so, although the Sanhedrin judged him guilty of blasphemy which means that he was accursed or spiritually separated from God, God judged him to be not guilty, and you ask where is this shown. It is shown by the fact that God raised him from the dead. If he had in sin, he would have been spiritually separated from God, and there would be no resurrection from the dead.
Quote Act 2:22 ¶ Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Act 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Act 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Quote Rom 1:1 ¶ Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called [to
be] an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,Rom 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Rom 1:4 And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Quote Hbr 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, [which are] the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Hbr 9:25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
Hbr 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Hbr 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Hbr 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Quote Rev 1:18 I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyIf God found him innocent then he didn't pay the price. I agree that Jesus was never cursed but Paul does not he even quotes “Cursed is everyone who hangeth from a tree” pointing out that Jesus became a curse in place of the sinners.
You say that God rejected that idea that Jesus was accursed and instead blessed him for being obedient. I agree with you but to reconcile Paul's statement and your belief I have to believe what I believe that Because Jesus was innocent God saved him from the curse of being hanged on a cross.
I believe that everyone who believes on his innocencewill not perish but have everlasting life for Jesus even said himself.
Matthew 12:7
But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Matthew 12:6-8Notice he says nothing about taking anyones place or being a Sacrifice he is clearly saying that there condemnation of him is in no way good insisting that he is guilt free so I agree with him and the Quran:
Behold! Allah said: “O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #55)
Hi BD:Man has the power to kill the body and the devil has the power to entice you to sin against God through men who will threaten to do this or that to you if you do not obey them or they may entice you to sin against God by offering you this or that or in some other way.
Jesus overcame sin and the consequences of sin which is death (spiritual death or eternal separation from God) by obeying God without sin in spite of what men could do or did to him, and so, yes, in this way he paid the price. Because God raised him from the dead, and is alive forever more, he can intercede for anyone who desires to be reconcile to God through him, asking God to forgive the person's sins.
Here is an example:
Quote Act 2:22 ¶ Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Act 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Act 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Act 2:25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
Act 2:26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
Act 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Act 2:28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
Act 2:29 Men [and] brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.
These men actually took part in crucifying Jesus and they repented and God forgave them.
Another example is the Apostle Paul who basically was a partaker in the stoning of Stephen to death, and God forgave him when he repented.
When Stephen was being stoned to death, he asked God not to impute this sin to them. Of course, they would have to repent. The Apostle Paul had consented to Stephen's death and was forgiven.
Quote Act 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon [God], and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. Act 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
Quote r 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and [offering] for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure [therein]; which are offered by the law; Hbr 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Hbr 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all].
Hbr 10:11 ¶ And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Hbr 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Hbr 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
Hbr 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Hbr 10:15 [Whereof] the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Hbr 10:16 This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Hbr 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Hbr 10:18 Now where remission of these [is, there is] no more offering for sin.
Hbr 10:19 ¶ Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Hbr 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Hbr 10:21 And [having] an high priest over the house of God;
Hbr 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Hbr 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of [our] faith without wavering; (for he [is] faithful that promised;)
If he had not obeyed God without sin, and had not been raised from the dead, there would not be any accountability to God for our sins, but because Jesus has been made both Lord and Christ, there is a day of judgment coming. He paid the price for the first death or spiritual separation from God for all men, but if they choose not to be reconciled to God through him, the second death or eternal separation from God will borne by that person who has rejected his Word.
Quote Jhn 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. Jhn 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Jhn 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Jhn 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Jhn 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak
Quote 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by [that] man whom he hath ordained; [whereof] he hath given assurance unto all [men], in that he hath raised him from the dead. Act 17:32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this [matter].
Quote v 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Ed J @ May 05 2012,14:57) So much for YOU believing the words of Jesus then; right, Asana Bodhitharta? “Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them,
and they that are great exercise authority upon them. But it shall not
be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him
be your minister; And whosoever will be chief among you, let him
be your servant: Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto,
but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.” (Matt 20:25-28)B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)
To give your life does not mean to give up your life. Moses gave his life as well and so do all prophets that's why Jonah was hesitant because he was called to give his life for the cause of God.
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