Exposing devolution and his false Islamic view

[bodhitharta]

This thread is to educate devolution in the form of a debate, while he thinks he should blindly insult others I say if you can stand up to the truth then come on let’s debate

[bodhitharta]

Sill no response, it's funny alwaysso much to say until someone checks you.

[Devolution]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 13 2012,10:44)

Sill no response, it's funny alwaysso much to say until someone checks you.

Bod,

Firstly I am not “blindly” insulting YOU!
I am exposing Islam!

There can never be honest debate with islam, only against it.

How can a man debate with another man who's god commands he practice Taqiyya…lying for the sake of Allah?

Which means, even if he made an oath to me in Muhammad or Allah's name, swearing that he would not lie to me…as long as his answers serve islam in the end, he IS still permitted to lie!!
Be it in Allah's name or in Muhammad's or whoever!!

They will even lie about Taqiyya!!

So you see, how can any man trust the word of one who follows a god that promotes lying?
He can not in all good conscience.
And neither can I.

Bod, your word can not be trusted, and I do not insult you, because you know it is true, IF there is any insult from these things I said, the guilt is not with the messenger, but with he whom instructs you to lie….your god and “his prophet”…because it is from “them” I can read for myself that these commandments are to ALL “their” followers…and you are one of “his” followers!!

My God however strongly condemns lying.
Allah and Jehovah are NOT the same.

Nevertheless, since you are aching to discredit my understanding of islam, in the hope of distorting the truths I am sharing about your “god” and “his prophet”, I will give you the opportunity to defend “them”…to practice Taqiyya on me.
See it as honing your Taqiyya skills for any future deceptive debates you will indulge in…in the name of your “god”.

Because I am not interested in your preaching of “them”, but your defending of “them”.
And this will help me gauge what kind of man you are too, or better said, to what degree of Taqiyya you will stoop, which will reveal how much worth you put into your own word…which is really…I know…sigh…I know… a contradiction considering the subject to be debated!

For who can know the truth of a liar?

Anyway, for your sake, because I'm really not interested in doing this, id rather just post truths about islam now and then, because i am cutting back on following what islam is doing in the world and plans to do in the future because it is filling me with a hatred i do not want inside of me…i intend to replace that hatred and restore it with the calm understanding I once practised…from understanding that my God is using the wicked to do the wicked works…i was digesting too much of islams blood and it was making me think thoughts a christian ought not think…
And it has caused me to be rude to you too!
Which I should not have done.
Though it probably means nothing to you, I do apologise.

Regardless, I will start with:

WHO WAS THE FIRST MUSLIM?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Devolution @ Oct. 15 2012,04:08)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 13 2012,10:44) Sill no response, it's funny alwaysso much to say until someone checks you. Bod, Firstly I am not “blindly” insulting YOU! I am exposing Islam! There can never be honest debate with islam, only against it. How can a man debate with another man who's god commands he practice Taqiyya…lying for the sake of Allah? Which means, even if he made an oath to me in Muhammad or Allah's name, swearing that he would not lie to me…as long as his answers serve islam in the end, he IS still permitted to lie!! Be it in Allah's name or in Muhammad's or whoever!! They will even lie about Taqiyya!! So you see, how can any man trust the word of one who follows a god that promotes lying? He can not in all good conscience. And neither can I. Bod, your word can not be trusted, and I do not insult you, because you know it is true, IF there is any insult from these things I said, the guilt is not with the messenger, but with he whom instructs you to lie….your god and “his prophet”…because it is from “them” I can read for myself that these commandments are to ALL “their” followers…and you are one of “his” followers!! My God however strongly condemns lying. Allah and Jehovah are NOT the same. Nevertheless, since you are aching to discredit my understanding of islam, in the hope of distorting the truths I am sharing about your “god” and “his prophet”, I will give you the opportunity to defend “them”…to practice Taqiyya on me. See it as honing your Taqiyya skills for any future deceptive debates you will indulge in…in the name of your “god”. Because I am not interested in your preaching of “them”, but your defending of “them”. And this will help me gauge what kind of man you are too, or better said, to what degree of Taqiyya you will stoop, which will reveal how much worth you put into your own word…which is really…I know…sigh…I know… a contradiction considering the subject to be debated! For who can know the truth of a liar? Anyway, for your sake, because I'm really not interested in doing this, id rather just post truths about islam now and then, because i am cutting back on following what islam is doing in the world and plans to do in the future because it is filling me with a hatred i do not want inside of me…i intend to replace that hatred and restore it with the calm understanding I once practised…from understanding that my God is using the wicked to do the wicked works…i was digesting too much of islams blood and it was making me think thoughts a christian ought not think… And it has caused me to be rude to you too! Which I should not have done. Though it probably means nothing to you, I do apologise. Regardless, I will start with: WHO WAS THE FIRST MUSLIM?

The first Muslim was Adam.

As far as your claim about lying what do you say about this?

1 Kings 22:23
Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

Also what about Rahab who lied to protect the israelite men? God honoured her

James 2:25
Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

You should know your own religion first and then speak on others you are totally ignorant. Embarassed yet? If not keep on with this debate you will be

[bodhitharta]

You will never beat me in a debate and I have never been defeated in a debate and the reason is I pick those I debate with wisely so My defeat of them is always crystal clear.

You don't even know your own bible so you could never defeat me in a debate but I will spank you so you will prepare better for the next person you debate. Seriously study first debate after you know what you are talking about, right now you sound like an angry loser trying to make your beliefs true

[Devolution]

bodhitharta,Oct. wrote:

[/quote]
Hi Bod,

Glad to see you're approaching this with such a spirited display!

Quote

You will never beat me in a debate and I have never been defeated in a debate and the reason is I pick those I debate with wisely so My defeat of them is always crystal clear.

Proverbs 16:18
   Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

Quote

You don't even know your own bible so you could never defeat me in a debate but I will spank you so you will prepare better for the next person you debate. Seriously study first debate after you know what you are talking about, right now you sound like an angry loser trying to make your beliefs true

Proverbs 26:4
   Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

Bod, you said that Adam was the first Muslim.

Besides there being no Muslims in the world till 600 odd AD, Yet according to several passages in the Quran, Muhammad was the first Muslim:

Say: Shall I choose for a protecting friend other than Allah, the Originator of the heavens and the earth, Who feedeth and is never fed? Say: I am ordered to be the first to surrender [aslama] (unto Him). And be not thou (O Muhammad) of the idolaters. S. 6:14 Pickthall

Say, verily my Lord hath directed me into a right way, a true religion, the sect of Abraham the orthodox; and he was no idolater. Say, verily my prayers, and my worship, and my life, and my death are dedicated unto God, the Lord of all creatures: He hath no companion. This have I been commanded: I am the first Moslem (Wa 'Ana 'Awwalu Al-Muslimin). S. 6:161-163 Sale

He hath no associate. This am I commanded, and I am the first of the Muslims. S. 6:163 Rodwell

Say (O Muhammad): Lo! I am commanded to worship Allah, making religion pure for Him (only). And I am commanded to be the first of those who are muslims (surrender unto Him). S. 39:11-12 Pickthall

Your turn.

[TimothyVI]

I am not a referee but it kind of looks like
the first volley goes to devolution, although it was his
question that he answered.

Tim

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 15 2012,20:02)

The first Muslim was Adam.

Hi BD,

Adam was the first man to 'SUBMIT' to Lucifer – so you do have a point!

יהוה חאלהים (JEHOVAH GOD)
עד (Joshua 22:34) Ed (Witness)

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 15 2012,20:07)

I have never been defeated in a debate

Hi BD,

You lost a debate with me here.  (Link)

יהוה חאלהים (JEHOVAH GOD)
עד (Joshua 22:34) Ed (Witness)

[terraricca]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 16 2012,03:07)

You will never beat me in a debate and I have never been defeated in a debate and the reason is I pick those I debate with wisely so My defeat of them is always crystal clear. You don't even know your own bible so you could never defeat me in a debate but I will spank you so you will prepare better for the next person you debate. Seriously study first debate after you know what you are talking about, right now you sound like an angry loser trying to make your beliefs true

bod

you have been beaten so many time we stop counting ,

the only place you have not been beaten his in your mind and heart for Islam because no matter what, you are willing to lie cheat ,blind yourself so you do not have to see the truth of God as it is spelled in scriptures ,for the same reason that the Devil made some men believe that he is god ,(Joseph Smith,Mormons,Muhammad the Koran )just so he (the devil) takes away what his of God but the true Christians are not fooled by that only ,fools would fall for this impersonation.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Devolution @ Oct. 16 2012,01:39)

bodhitharta,Oct. wrote: [/quote] Hi Bod, Glad to see you're approaching this with such a spirited display! Quote You will never beat me in a debate and I have never been defeated in a debate and the reason is I pick those I debate with wisely so My defeat of them is always crystal clear. Proverbs 16:18    Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall. Quote You don't even know your own bible so you could never defeat me in a debate but I will spank you so you will prepare better for the next person you debate. Seriously study first debate after you know what you are talking about, right now you sound like an angry loser trying to make your beliefs true Proverbs 26:4    Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. Bod, you said that Adam was the first Muslim. Besides there being no Muslims in the world till 600 odd AD, Yet according to several passages in the Quran, Muhammad was the first Muslim: Say: Shall I choose for a protecting friend other than Allah, the Originator of the heavens and the earth, Who feedeth and is never fed? Say: I am ordered to be the first to surrender [aslama] (unto Him). And be not thou (O Muhammad) of the idolaters. S. 6:14 Pickthall Say, verily my Lord hath directed me into a right way, a true religion, the sect of Abraham the orthodox; and he was no idolater. Say, verily my prayers, and my worship, and my life, and my death are dedicated unto God, the Lord of all creatures: He hath no companion. This have I been commanded: I am the first Moslem (Wa 'Ana 'Awwalu Al-Muslimin). S. 6:161-163 Sale He hath no associate. This am I commanded, and I am the first of the Muslims. S. 6:163 Rodwell Say (O Muhammad): Lo! I am commanded to worship Allah, making religion pure for Him (only). And I am commanded to be the first of those who are muslims (surrender unto Him). S. 39:11-12 Pickthall Your turn.

Sorry your information is incorrect a Muslim is one who submits to God and not a religious reference you misunderstood what you were reading here let me help:

all the prophets preached the same faith of submission to God including Jesus

When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: “Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah?” Said the disciples: “We are Allah's helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are muslims.
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #52)

Once you understand what Islam is and understand what it means to be a Muslim instead of thinking of it as a religious invention you will see clearly. You certainly would not deny that Jesus submitted his whole self unto God, correct?

to be a Muslim means this:

James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you
If you do not understand this you will simply keep referring to cultural themes and memes and avoid reality. Any good Christian by NATURE must be a good Muslim.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (TimothyVI @ Oct. 16 2012,03:17)

I am not a referee but it kind of looks like the first volley goes to devolution, although it was his question that he answered. Tim

No, he answered his question based on limited understanding assuming that Muhammad founded a religion when in fact Muhammad was chosen to reinstate religion no new God, no new Prophets just reciting all that was already established and much that was manipulated or hidden.

Keep in mind it is not a religion in the sense of their being a personality such as Christ that it is named after it is a way of life such as when Christians use to call their way of life “The Way”.

This is why I said ALL good Christians would have to follow that way which is SUBMISSION to GOD i.e. Love God with all your heart , soul and Mind. This is Islam

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 16 2012,08:51)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 15 2012,20:07) I have never been defeated in a debate Hi BD, You lost a debate with me here.  (Link) יהוה חאלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) עד (Joshua 22:34) Ed (Witness)

Ed

Although I never lost a debate with you I did lose a lot of respect for you which I am still trying hard to repair as you seem to be trying to have a little more control of your self

[bodhitharta]

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 16 2012,09:10)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 16 2012,03:07) You will never beat me in a debate and I have never been defeated in a debate and the reason is I pick those I debate with wisely so My defeat of them is always crystal clear. You don't even know your own bible so you could never defeat me in a debate but I will spank you so you will prepare better for the next person you debate. Seriously study first debate after you know what you are talking about, right now you sound like an angry loser trying to make your beliefs true bod you have been beaten so many time we stop counting , the only place you have not been beaten his in your mind and heart for Islam because no matter what, you are willing to lie cheat ,blind yourself so you do not have to see the truth of God as it is spelled in scriptures ,for the same reason that the Devil made some men believe that he is god ,(Joseph Smith,Mormons,Muhammad the Koran )just so he (the devil) takes away what his of God but the true Christians are not fooled by that only ,fools would fall for this impersonation.

Can you show an instance of me lying if you cannot then I will politely ask you to not post in this thread between me and devolution if you can show me such a thing then feel free but as I said if not do not post again.

Thos shall not bear false witness

[Devolution]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 16 2012,11:34)

Quote (Devolution @ Oct. 16 2012,01:39) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 15 2012,20:07) Hi Bod, Glad to see you're approaching this with such a spirited display! Quote You will never beat me in a debate and I have never been defeated in a debate and the reason is I pick those I debate with wisely so My defeat of them is always crystal clear. Proverbs 16:18    Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall. Quote You don't even know your own bible so you could never defeat me in a debate but I will spank you so you will prepare better for the next person you debate. Seriously study first debate after you know what you are talking about, right now you sound like an angry loser trying to make your beliefs true Proverbs 26:4    Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. Bod, you said that Adam was the first Muslim. Besides there being no Muslims in the world till 600 odd AD, Yet according to several passages in the Quran, Muhammad was the first Muslim: Say: Shall I choose for a protecting friend other than Allah, the Originator of the heavens and the earth, Who feedeth and is never fed? Say: I am ordered to be the first to surrender [aslama] (unto Him). And be not thou (O Muhammad) of the idolaters. S. 6:14 Pickthall Say, verily my Lord hath directed me into a right way, a true religion, the sect of Abraham the orthodox; and he was no idolater. Say, verily my prayers, and my worship, and my life, and my death are dedicated unto God, the Lord of all creatures: He hath no companion. This have I been commanded: I am the first Moslem (Wa 'Ana 'Awwalu Al-Muslimin). S. 6:161-163 Sale He hath no associate. This am I commanded, and I am the first of the Muslims. S. 6:163 Rodwell Say (O Muhammad): Lo! I am commanded to worship Allah, making religion pure for Him (only). And I am commanded to be the first of those who are muslims (surrender unto Him). S. 39:11-12 Pickthall Your turn. Sorry your information is incorrect a Muslim is one who submits to God and not a religious reference you misunderstood what you were reading here let me help: all the prophets preached the same faith of submission to God including Jesus When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: “Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah?” Said the disciples: “We are Allah's helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are muslims. (  سورة آل عمران  , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #52) Once you understand what Islam is and understand what it means to be a Muslim instead of thinking of it as a religious invention you will see clearly. You certainly would not deny that Jesus submitted his whole self unto God, correct? to be a Muslim means this: James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you If you do not understand this you will simply keep referring to cultural themes and memes and avoid reality. Any good Christian by NATURE must be a good Muslim.

Bod,

You are getting ahead of yourself.
This subject is far from closed, and you err, i understand exactly what being a Muslim means…the opposite of Christian, Judaism etc etc etc.
You're doing the Catholic trick…
That we're all really Catholics, because Catholic means universal.
Sorry, doesn't work.

Muhammad claimed to be the first Muslim.
Try as you may, you can not get around this.
Again:

He hath no associate. This am I commanded, and I am the first of the Muslims. S. 6:163 Rodwell

Say (O Muhammad): Lo! I am commanded to worship Allah, making religion pure for Him (only). And I am commanded to be the first of those who are muslims (surrender unto Him). S. 39:11-12 Pickthall

And it doesn’t stop here Bod. The Quran elsewhere claims that Moses was actually the first to believe:

When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: “O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee.” Allah said: “By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me.” When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: “Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe.” S. 7:143

Bod, the Quran claims that all the prophets and messengers were Muslims. Hence, for Moses to be the first believer means that he was also the first Muslim.

So don't worry about Adam yet, we will work towards that as we go…we havent even reached Abraham yet, nor sorted out who was the first Muslim out of Muhammad & Moses.

So tell me, because this needs to be cleared up, who was the first Muslim, Moses or Muhammad?
They both can't be the first.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Devolution @ Oct. 16 2012,17:08)

Bod, You are getting ahead of yourself. This subject is far from closed, and you err, i understand exactly what being a Muslim means…the opposite of Christian, Judaism etc etc etc. You're doing the Catholic trick… That we're all really Catholics, because Catholic means universal. Sorry, doesn't work. Muhammad claimed to be the first Muslim. Try as you may, you can not get around this. Again: He hath no associate. This am I commanded, and I am the first of the Muslims. S. 6:163 Rodwell Say (O Muhammad): Lo! I am commanded to worship Allah, making religion pure for Him (only). And I am commanded to be the first of those who are muslims (surrender unto Him). S. 39:11-12 Pickthall And it doesn’t stop here Bod. The Quran elsewhere claims that Moses was actually the first to believe: When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: “O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee.” Allah said: “By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me.” When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: “Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe.” S. 7:143 Bod, the Quran claims that all the prophets and messengers were Muslims. Hence, for Moses to be the first believer means that he was also the first Muslim. So don't worry about Adam yet, we will work towards that as we go…we havent even reached Abraham yet, nor sorted out who was the first Muslim out of Muhammad & Moses. So tell me, because this needs to be cleared up, who was the first Muslim, Moses or Muhammad? They both can't be the first.

You are having an issue with understanding context, If Muhammad was claiming to be the first Muslim why would the Quran call others Muslims that predated Muhammad?

For instance no where will you see before acts anyone called Christian but weren't the disciples Christians?

Thefact is words have meanings and I am telling you the MEANING. Was Abraham a Jew or a Christian? No he was neither was a Muslim by definition.

Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a christian; but he was true in Faith, and bowed his will to Allah's (Which is Islam), and he joined not gods with Allah.
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #67)

Like I said you don't understand the usage of the language who was begotten first Jesus or david

Psalm 2:7
I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee

This was long before Jesus was born but if you say that was a prophetic verse pertaining to the future of Jesus then wouldn't that make Jesus at least the “first born” but the Bible says

Jeremiah 31:9
They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

Exodus 4:22
And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

So for you to understand you would have to learn that certain expressions are terms of endearment or devotion.

To teach you what I mean if I am incorrect explain this:

Luke 1:32-33

King James Version (KJV)

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

When you don't understand expressions you misunderstand meanings is David the Father of Jesus yes or no?

Have you ever heard the expression “I'd be the first one to admit that” or something similar?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 16 2012,08:46)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 15 2012,20:02) The first Muslim was Adam. Hi BD, Adam was the first man to 'SUBMIT' to Lucifer – so you do have a point! יהוה חאלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) עד (Joshua 22:34) Ed (Witness)

Yet Adam is still called the son of God according to the scriptures.

Luke 3:38
Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

You don't love your scriptures you hate what they tell you so you and guys like devolution have to play with them and manipulate them and your own minds to feel better about them.

I like them the way they are no need to play with them just dig a little deeper

[terraricca]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 16 2012,06:45)

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 16 2012,09:10) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 16 2012,03:07) You will never beat me in a debate and I have never been defeated in a debate and the reason is I pick those I debate with wisely so My defeat of them is always crystal clear. You don't even know your own bible so you could never defeat me in a debate but I will spank you so you will prepare better for the next person you debate. Seriously study first debate after you know what you are talking about, right now you sound like an angry loser trying to make your beliefs true bod you have been beaten so many time we stop counting , the only place you have not been beaten his in your mind and heart for Islam because no matter what, you are willing to lie cheat ,blind yourself so you do not have to see the truth of God as it is spelled in scriptures ,for the same reason that the Devil made some men believe that he is god ,(Joseph Smith,Mormons,Muhammad the Koran )just so he (the devil) takes away what his of God but the true Christians are not fooled by that only ,fools would fall for this impersonation. Can you show an instance of me lying if you cannot then I will politely ask you to not post in this thread between me and devolution if you can show me such a thing then feel free but as I said if not do not post again. Thos shall not bear false witness

bod

this includes the entire forum right

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 17 2012,10:25)

You are having an issue with understanding context, If Muhammad was claiming to be the first Muslim why would the Quran call others Muslims that predated Muhammad?

Hi BD,

That answer is simple: because the quran is a 'book of fraud' and not to be trusted.  (See Gal.1:8 and 2Cor.11:14)

יהוה חאלהים (JEHOVAH GOD)
עד (Joshua 22:34) Ed (Witness)

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 17 2012,10:34)

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 16 2012,08:46) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 15 2012,20:02) The first Muslim was Adam. Hi BD, Adam was the first man to 'SUBMIT' to Lucifer – so you do have a point! יהוה חאלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) עד (Joshua 22:34) Ed (Witness) Yet Adam is still called the son of God according to the scriptures. Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God. You don't love your scriptures you hate what they tell you so you and guys like devolution have to play with them and manipulate them and your own minds to feel better about them. I like them the way they are no need to play with them just dig a little deeper

“And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife,
and  hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it:
 cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground;
for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.” (Gen 3:17-19)

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