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How can a person believe the lie of evolution and still claim he is a christian? Is he a true christian? I don't believe so. I believe he is a guy who is caught up in the teachings of this world and his God is the God of this world. What is really startling is how many so called christians today believe this very same thing. Is it any wonder there are so few who will be taken when Jesus comes.
I can't see how you can believe a lie and still claim to be born again. Doesn't this alone shoot down the once saved, always saved teachings? It is a sad, sad world we live in today.
Hi t4h,
Why should we be burdened by those of the world?
We should not be not of the world.
We are given light burdens.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 28 2006,05:58) Hi t4h,
Why should we be burdened by those of the world?
We should not be not of the world.
We are given light burdens.
He means to say in his second sentence, that we should not be of the world. Just had to make a friendly correction their, pal.
Hi four horseman
How can a person believe the lie of evolution and still claim he is a christian?
What makes you think evolution is a lie?
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Aug. 07 2007,23:10) What makes you think evolution is a lie? Stuart
His faith is what sets him and others apart from evolutionists. Simple. I believe that you knew that answer before you asked it.Hi acertainchap
++”His faith is what sets him and others apart from evolutionists. Simple. I believe that you knew that answer before you asked it.
I thought since he stated it as a fact, not as a religious belief, that he might actually have some evidence to support his allegation that evolution is a “lie”.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Aug. 07 2007,23:10) Hi four horseman How can a person believe the lie of evolution and still claim he is a christian?
What makes you think evolution is a lie?
Stuart
There are those who believe God “created” evolution.Stu, what say you? This belief system almost seems like a oxi-moron, but still, it's a curious idea.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 14 2007,16:34) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 07 2007,23:10) Hi four horseman How can a person believe the lie of evolution and still claim he is a christian?
What makes you think evolution is a lie?
Stuart
There are those who believe God “created” evolution.Stu, what say you? This belief system almost seems like a oxi-moron, but still, it's a curious idea.
Evolution is the name we give to the descent with modification that has evidently happened. Natural selection is our explanation for how it happened, based on much evidence.You can insert a god if you like, but that will does not increase the (already immense) explaining power of evolutionary theory.
Stuart
Stu,
Quote You can insert a god if you like, but that will does not increase the (already immense) explaining power of evolutionary theory.
Theory? on the other thread you said it was a fact.A fact is defined as “Something having real, demonstrable existence: Genetic engineering is now a fact.” The only evidence of “evolution” (I would say adaptation) is within a species, smaller, taller, darker, etc.. but there is no proof of a species evolving to a new species.
However, I have seen evolution at work, the “fact” of evolution has evolved over the years… gee I guess that does make it a theory. And if it is a theory then it's an opinion based on an interpretation of some facts but other interpretations may be just as valid or even more.
I fully embrace true science, it is compatible with God and creation, they are not mutually exclusive as you seem to believe.
So yes I do choose to “insert” God as I see it as the best explanation of the facts
Wm
Hi seekingtruth
++”Theory? on the other thread you said it was a fact.
Yes. Strictly it is the fact of evolution explained by the Theory of Natural Selection. “Evolutionary theory” is a shorter way of saying it. Have I said differently to this anywhere?
++”A fact is defined as “Something having real, demonstrable existence: Genetic engineering is now a fact.” The only evidence of “evolution” (I would say adaptation) is within a species, smaller, taller, darker, etc.. but there is no proof of a species evolving to a new species.
There is no proof of anything in science like there is in mathematics, except maybe to demonstrate that a theory is wrong. Evolution from one species to another is factual. There is no other reasonable interpretation of the fossil record. Natural selection is our explanation for that fact, and unlike Newtonian physics and atomic theory, it has remained pretty much as Darwin espoused it 150 years ago. New evidence since then, such as the DNA mechanism for heredity, Mendelian genetics, comparative DNA studies and radioisotope dating have all added strength to the basic Darwinian model.
++”However, I have seen evolution at work, the “fact” of evolution has evolved over the years… gee I guess that does make it a theory. And if it is a theory then it's an opinion based on an interpretation of some facts but other interpretations may be just as valid or even more.
Have you any actual examples of what you mean?
++”I fully embrace true science, it is compatible with God and creation, they are not mutually exclusive as you seem to believe.
True science does not start from a prejudicial assumption that Genesis is correct. A real scientist makes no assumptions at all about what conclusions might be reached. That does leave the possibility of an “omnipotent creator” but so far not a single area of science has found this concept to have any explaining power at all. On the contrary, there is no evidence for such a thing, and even if there was, to get to a fundamental explanation you would have the problem of explaining the complexity and existence of such a creator.
++”So yes I do choose to “insert” God as I see it as the best explanation of the facts
Please give me one fact that cannot be “best” explained without a god.
Stuart
Stu,
Gravity is a fact. It is observable and reproducible, I know of at least 3 major theories for the cause of gravity; attraction, expansion, and pressure. The proponents for each tend to believe theirs is the only “reasonable interpretation”Life with the ability to adapt is also a fact. It is observable and reproducible, how it came about is not. Like you I do believe the “theory” I've embraced as the only “reasonable interpretation”.
While someday they may find a way to prove the cause for gravity, short of creating a time machine or God showing up with home movies, I know of no way to ever “prove” evolution or creation.
Quote
Please give me one fact that cannot be “best” explained without a god.
Your existenceWm
Hi seekingtruth
++”Gravity is a fact. It is observable and reproducible, I know of at least 3 major theories for the cause of gravity; attraction, expansion, and pressure. The proponents for each tend to believe theirs is the only “reasonable interpretation”
Could you please give me references for the attraction, expansion and pressure theories of gravity. I can only find in modern physics references the the Spacetime Curvature and Quantum Field theories (leading on to String Theory).
++”Life with the ability to adapt is also a fact. It is observable and reproducible, how it came about is not.
You seem to have ignored the fossil record here. Why are there no rabbit fossils in the oldest rocks and no trilobite fossils in the youngest ones?
++”Like you I do believe the “theory” I've embraced as the only “reasonable interpretation”.
Please could you tell me what that theory is, complete with evidence and falsification?
++”While someday they may find a way to prove the cause for gravity, short of creating a time machine or God showing up with home movies, I know of no way to ever “prove” evolution or creation.
There is no proof except in mathematics. There is no evidence for creation, there is plenty for evolution. Those are facts too.
++”Please give me one fact that cannot be “best” explained without a god.
…Your existencePlease explain my existence using the theory of god, and make it a better explanation than the scientific model!
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Sep. 20 2007,20:16) Please explain my existence using the theory of god, and make it a better explanation than the scientific model!
God created the cosmos and within that cosmos, he created you, by reason of processes dictated by laws that he set in motion and by giving you his spirit (possibly when you were conceived in the womb) and that gave you awareness.Verses:
Nothing made everything. You have life and are self aware and somehow nothing/no one produced this.
See the only important difference Stu is there is a God or there isn't.
Science to one is how and to the other is also how. Although the first option also asks who.
The only real defining thing is that you either believe that someone made everything by whatever means, or that nothing did it by whatever means.
The nothing one seems rather silly to me. That is logic speaking Stu. But I also have another witness for there being a God. God speaks to me and I to him.
But you choose nothing, as you have probably not heard from him. But even then, you have no excuse. Nothing makes nothing Stu. So if you believe that no one made anything regarding the cosmos, then you must also believe that you are nothing too.
But isn't that a bit strange because deep down you know you are not nothing.
Surely you are something and someone?
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 03 2007,00:27) Quote (Stu @ Sep. 20 2007,20:16) Please explain my existence using the theory of god, and make it a better explanation than the scientific model!
God created the cosmos and within that cosmos, he created you, by reason of processes dictated by laws that he set in motion and by giving you his spirit (possibly when you were conceived in the womb) and that gave you awareness.Verses:
Nothing made everything. You have life and are self aware and somehow nothing/no one produced this.
See the only important difference Stu is there is a God or there isn't.
Science to one is how and to the other is also how. Although the first option also asks who.
The only real defining thing is that you either believe that someone made everything by whatever means, or that nothing did it by whatever means.
The nothing one seems rather silly to me. That is logic speaking Stu. But I also have another witness for there being a God. God speaks to me and I to him.
But you choose nothing, as you have probably not heard from him. But even then, you have no excuse. Nothing makes nothing Stu. So if you believe that no one made anything regarding the cosmos, then you must also believe that you are nothing too.
But isn't that a bit strange because deep down you know you are not nothing.
Surely you are something and someone?
As for the idea of a Christian believing in evolution. I think it is possible. Do I? No, but I also don't dogmatically insist that God couldn't have chose to do so. It's more for me a matter of literal versus allegorical understanding of Genesis. I view it more literal as I believe Jesus did. I also, believe that the first few chapters of Genesis are only giving us the highlights of creation with very little of the details.I very much agree with t8s logic and for me that is exactly how I view reality.
I wanted to add that I also I find it unlogical for an Athiest to acknowledge sentient beings all around them and including themselves most also believe in life existing somewhere else in the universe as well.
Yet, still then they think that it is impossible for a sentient being to exist out there known to us as God. As below so above. I am sentient, you are sentient, it is not hard for me to comprehend another sentient being above us.
I don't know if that makes sense to you, but it is very key to my understanding.
Do you want to know what I think of all this about not believing in God. First How can nothing come from nothing, that makes no sense, it makes more sense to belief in a Creator, that we call God.
Stu I do not understand that you are still here? I ask you once if you ever believed in God. or not” You never answewred that Question? I also thought that you seemed angry, and why?
So are you oing to answer my question, Stu?Peace and Love Mrs.
There are some that believe God used evolution to bring forth his creation of animals, man, plants, etc. Personally speaking, I am not one of those people.
Quote (Theologian-and-Apologist @ July 14 2008,12:48) I don't believe in evolution because it is GARBAGE!
Well that clinches it for me. Some of the brightests minds in scientific history have grappled with the details of speciation abd some of the dimmest minds have failed to grasp the significance of that work, but here you have cut through all of that with an inspired rebuttal. If only we had met sooner I could have saved myself from learning about all that garbage. What a devastating and final argument.Stuart
So which are you Stu?
You say that you don't know what the cause of the universe was, whether it was nothing or a type of dead thing, you only know with almost certainty that there is no God, even though you profess to know nothing on this subject.
I will let you guess for yourself Stu whether you are of the brightests minds in science or a dim mind that fails to grasp significance. Or somewhere in between.
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