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Hi Proclaimer, what is the revelation? A twisting of scriptures? Creating mythologies?
A satan in the Hebrew Bible was not any arch-enemy of God as invented by the NT writers.
Christian theologian and professor of New Testament, Rudolf Bultmann wrote that:
The cosmology of the New Testament is essentially mythical in character. The world is viewed as a three storied structure, with the earth in the center, the heaven above, and the underworld beneath. Heaven is the abode of God and of celestial beings — the angels. The underworld is hell, the place of torment. Even the earth is more than the scene of natural, everyday events, of the trivial round and common task. It is the scene of the supernatural activity of God and his angels on the one hand, and of Satan and his demons on the other. These supernatural forces intervene in the course of nature and in all that men think and will and do. Miracles are by no means rare. Man is not in control of his own life. Evil spirits may take possession of him. Satan may inspire him with evil thoughts. Alternatively, God may inspire his thought and guide his purposes. He may grant him heavenly visions. He may allow him to hear his word of succor or demand. He may give him the supernatural power of his Spirit. History does not follow a smooth unbroken course; it is set in motion and controlled by these supernatural powers. This æon is held in bondage by Satan, sin, and death (for “powers” is precisely what they are), and hastens towards its end. That end will come very soon, and will take the form of a cosmic catastrophe. It will be inaugurated by the “woes” of the last time. Then the Judge will come from heaven, the dead will rise, the last judgment will take place, and men will enter into eternal salvation or damnation.
God has a plan to transform sinful man to become sons of God.
It started with a nation that he could work through because of a righteous man called Abraham. From this God blessed him and the nation, but removed his protection when they went after other gods and were often enslaved by nations ruled by other gods.
Next, God gave his law and his nation learned about sin and their true state, but a messiah was promised.
When the messiah came, his people were expecting a reigning king, and while this is part of the plan, he became the suffering servant first.
The law demanded death and the Lamb of God died for all humanities sins. This is the most generous gift God has given us.
We now await the return of the king who is called The Word of God.
In the meantime, men grow impatient and say where is his coming. Things haven’t changed.
Most importantly, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. “Where is the promise of His coming?” they will ask. “ Ever since our fathers fell asleep, everything continues as it has from the beginning of creation.” But they deliberately overlook the fact that long ago by God’s word the heavens existed…
Next, God gave his law and his nation learned about sin and their true state, but a messiah was promised.
When the messiah came, his people were expecting a reigning king, and while this is part of the plan, he became the suffering servant first.
The law demanded death and the Lamb of God died for all humanities sins. This is the most generous gift God has given us.
We now await the return of the king who is called The Word of God.
In the meantime, men grow impatient and say where is his coming. Things haven’t changed.
All the above assumptions are purely Christian inventions and not supported by the Hebrew Bible. The Torah is eternal and perfect in nature as per the Hebrew Bible
Ps 19:
7 The law of the Lord is perfect,
reviving the soul;
the decrees of the Lord are sure,
making wise the simple;
8 the precepts of the Lord are right,
rejoicing the heart;
the commandment of the Lord is clear,
enlightening the eyes;
9 the fear of the Lord is pure,
enduring forever;
the ordinances of the Lord are true
and righteous altogether.
10 More to be desired are they than gold,
even much fine gold;
sweeter also than honey,
and drippings of the honeycomb.Paul and Christianity corrupted the very form of the Hebrew religion by inventing a Hellenistic mythology.
So you say. It’s an opinion.
Even logic argues against you though.
If the messiah comes, obviously new things are going to happen.
Your view makes it impossible for the messiah.
Think about that.
In history, Jesus is the only person to fit the role of the messiah.
Give me your no1 candidate.
So you say. It’s an opinion.
Even logic argues against you though.
If the messiah comes, obviously new things are going to happen.
Your view makes it impossible for the messiah.
Think about that.
In history, Jesus is the only person to fit the role of the messiah.
Give me your no1 candidate.
I have already posted much on the Messiah on the other thread. We can stick to the topic here.
Thank you.
Exactly, its a BUILD*A*GOD
start here and end up here. a tradition in cultures throughout their generations. god just did not appear at one single time in history. to only send one true messenger for mankind, one, since the beginning, one. once again we can use malevolent. that one and done thought process.
it is plausible to have a culture or society function w/o a god (good or bad) and become an empire. if you removed any form of worship inside the city. there would be places outside the city walls to worship. Like Cyrus the Great did, oh wait a second the called him messiah!
in all accounts, the messiah has not come yet. the prophecies of the old testament were not fulfilled. there are huge debates about this. its the origin of Superman story.
it begins the topic of ones that take the new testament as the truer word of god and the ones that take the ancient testament is the truth. Same book 2 gods somewhere along the line the spirit came into play as 3. where by all accounts the spirit of god was first. weird huh …..its like they went backwards and worked their way out.
Hi Princess welcome. Thanks for your post on this thread on the concepts and beliefs about Messiah. But I request you to share some thing on the Evolution of Satan figure in the Bible.
Gadam
Hi Proclaimer, what is the revelation? A twisting of scriptures? Creating mythologies?
A satan in the Hebrew Bible was not any arch-enemy of God as invented by the NT writers.
Me
Lucifer =Satan = the devil =the old snake…. IS THE SAME PERSON
It is he who wants to be god instead of God. God still leaves him to make his experience on this earth, until the greatest number can realize who he is(the father of lies) and also who really is THE NATURE OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD AND OF HIS CHRIST.
BUT HIS END IS NEAR:See Rev.12:12
Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
All the above assumptions are purely Christian inventions
This kind of comment would be expected by those that reject God and his plan. They reject revelation which is made possible by free will and wayward hearts.
Some things are spiritually discerned. The carnal man cannot fathom the things of the Spirit.
god man, a one word explicative…..truly, all your writing habits fade away or something.
!0! princess !0!
This kind of comment would be expected by those that reject God and his plan. They reject revelation which is made possible by free will and wayward hearts.
Some things are spiritually discerned. The carnal man cannot fathom the things of the Spirit.
Hi Proclaimer, Please read my post fully when replying. It is a question of rejection of those so called secret revelations as claimed by the NT writers like Paul who never met the historical Jesus and others. Those strange ideas of Messiah involving in God’s creation and making Vicarious Atonement are all myths created by the Christianity for which there is no base in the Hebrew Bible.
Similarly the idea of Satan, an Arch-enemy created by God is another great myth by the NT writers. The non-existing Eternal Hell based on Greek mythology is another invention by the Christianity. This list go on and on….
You only offer opinions.
If you cannot see the glorious plan of God, then that is not my fault.
It is your own fault.
You must be born from above.
Seriously.
The non-existing Eternal Hell based on Greek mythology is another invention by the Christianity.
Where in the Bible does it teach an eternal hell?
You only offer opinions.
If you cannot see the glorious plan of God, then that is not my fault.
It is your own fault.
You must be born from above.
Seriously.
So you think those are my opinions and not any evidences based on Hebrew Bible?
What is this born from above which is often repeated by Christian Apologists?
Sorry I could not find it in the Hebrew Bible and I think that is another new invention by Christianity.
Hebrew Bible only knows repentance and confession of sins not any thing more.
So I request you brother to study the Torah and the Hebrew Bible you will be enlightened.
Where in the Bible does it teach an eternal hell?
Of course Eternal Hell is not directly mentioned in the NT but it is mentioned indirectly.
Matt 25:41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels”
Matt 25:46 “And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Matt 10: 28 “And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell”
Mark 9:43 “If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life [j]maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to [k]hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched….”
Rev 20:15 “And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire”
Jude 7 “as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the [a]vengeance of eternal fire”
The list go on…..
Matt 25:41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels”
In other words, there is a fire that will destroy all things that are wicked. It is permanent. There is no coming back from that. It destroys.
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
See that. Two choices.
- Eternal life
- You perish.
That’s it.
Matt 25:46 “And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Same again. The punishment of death is permanent. It is not for 1000 years, 1 million years, 1 billion years and then you are brought back to life because you have done your time. It means you will never have life. Game over player one.
Matt 10: 28 “And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell”
Thank you. This proves what I am saying.
Mark 9:43 “If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life [j]maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to [k]hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched….”
Rev 20:15 “And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire”
Jude 7 “as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the [a]vengeance of eternal fire”
Same again. Now think about Sodom and Gomorrah. Are those cities still burning? No, they were destroyed by “sulfur and fire”. Even the example you give proves your assumption false.
The New Testament doesn’t teach eternal life for the wicked. Because if you exist in flames for eternity, that is eternal life, albeit not in Heaven but a fire. No, death is death and life is life. That hasn’t changed because of a permanent fire causing permanent destruction.
If you wish to debate the doctrine of judgement further, and in particularly hell and the lake of fire, then feel free to continue that here:
If you wish to debate the doctrine of judgement further, and in particularly hell and the lake of fire, then feel free to continue that here:
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