- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (bodhitharta @ July 25 2009,06:38) Quote (942767 @ July 25 2009,06:13) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 25 2009,05:46) Quote (942767 @ July 25 2009,05:00) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 24 2009,20:48) Quote (942767 @ July 24 2009,15:29) Quote (942767 @ July 24 2009,10:14) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 24 2009,05:58) Every man shall die for his own sin: 2 Chronicles 25
4But he slew not their children, but did as it is written in the law in the book of Moses, where the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not die for the children, neither shall the children die for the fathers, but every man shall die for his own sin.and again:
Proverbs 24 (King James Version)
12 If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works?
and Jesus says:
Matthew 16 (King James Version)
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Hi BD:Every man born of the sperm of man, including Muhammad, have sinned and therefore, every one of us who have been born of the sperm of man can not die for someone else since we have our own sin.
Jesus was not born of the sperm of man. He was conceived of the Holy Ghost in the womb of then virgin Mary. No, sex involved this was an act of love by God for humanity.
For added emphasis, I state that the book of Isaiah was part of those scriptures which were found with the dead sea scrolls. This is what God states in the book of Isaiah:
Quote Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. Isa 53:7 ¶ He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Isa 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither [was any] deceit in his mouth.
Isa 53:10 ¶ Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Isa 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him [a portion] with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Verse 53:6 states that the “LORD has laid upon him the iniquity of us all” and 53:11 states that “by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many, for he shall bear their iniquities”.
Do you believe these scriptures are true?
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi BD:I believe that it is you that need to take a closer look at Isaiah 53 to see that this is speaking of Jesus and that God has made him the propitiation for the sins of humanity.
Jesus suffered all of the whippings, insults, and whatever else that mankind could do to him, but did not retaliate, and that is what is meant by him not opening his mouth. If he had, he would have sinned. He overcame sin by not retaliating against those who delivered him up to be crucified and those who actually crucified him. Mankind has the power to kill the body, but cannot kill the soul.
Jesus made intercession for mankind here when he said the following as they prepared to crucify him:
Quote
Luk 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyIf what you say is true you have a problem on your hands because it can be said that all sin is a result of not knowing “what they do” and therefore according to your own testimony it would not matter what religion or belief anyone has because “They know not what they do” so why do you believe in “backsliding”?
BTW, did you notice it says “by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many”
It doesn't say by his death.
Hi BD:Do the following scriptures say death?
Quote Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Isa 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither [was any] deceit in his mouth.The scriptures define sin as the “transgression of the law”, and yes men do for the most part know that they are doing wrong, but they do it in unbelief, but even in the case of a backslider God is able to forgive if someone comes to Him with a repentant heart through the provision that He has made.
Quote 1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a
ransom for all, to be testified in due time.Love in Christ,
Marty
You assume Isaiah is talking about Jesus but if that is so consider this:Isaiah 54
8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.
God was never angry with Jesus. The suffering servant is Israel or any other servant that has struggles.
17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.
Also when Isaiah speaks in chapter 53:
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
How could you believe that Jesus was despised and rejected of men when the fact is they plotted to kill him because of his popularity and power?
Hi BD:Isaiah 54 is speaking of Israel, but Isaiah 53 is speaking of Jesus. God did lay the inquity of all of us on the nation of Israel.
Jesus was despised and rejected of men.
Quote Jhn 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Jhn 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:Quote Luk 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
Luk 23:35 And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided [him], saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.
Luk 23:36 And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar,
Luk 23:37 And saying, If thou be the king of the Jews, save thyself.
Luk 23:38 And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
Luk 23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and usLove in Christ,
Marty
Marty it seems your doing a little selective belief.The world was not made by Jesus.
If you have read the gospels you would have noticed that Jesus was attracting large crowds that simply loved him. The crowds loved him so much they would follow him and some massive crowds would go hungry just to hear him talk. The people that hated or disliked him was in the minority for sure.
The tax collectors invited him for dinner and many many who were “sinners” believed in him. Do you deny these scriptural facts!?
Hi BD:No, the world was not made by Jesus, God made the world with him in mind. The present world is temporary, and is meant for the purpose of calling men into a relationship with God through the provision that He has made.
God made man in his own image. The first Adam was made a living soul, like God in that he has a mind, a free will, and emotions. The last Adam, Jesus, is like God in that he is a spirit of love. He is the express image of God's person, and we who are born again Christians are becoming like him as we learn to apply his Word in our daily lives.
God is the creator. The Son is God's heir and those in the body of Christ are joint heirs with him.
Quote Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 ¶ For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell;
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, , whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ July 25 2009,07:03) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 25 2009,06:38) Quote (942767 @ July 25 2009,06:13) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 25 2009,05:46) Quote (942767 @ July 25 2009,05:00) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 24 2009,20:48) Quote (942767 @ July 24 2009,15:29) Quote (942767 @ July 24 2009,10:14) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 24 2009,05:58) Every man shall die for his own sin: 2 Chronicles 25
4But he slew not their children, but did as it is written in the law in the book of Moses, where the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not die for the children, neither shall the children die for the fathers, but every man shall die for his own sin.and again:
Proverbs 24 (King James Version)
12 If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works?
and Jesus says:
Matthew 16 (King James Version)
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Hi BD:Every man born of the sperm of man, including Muhammad, have sinned and therefore, every one of us who have been born of the sperm of man can not die for someone else since we have our own sin.
Jesus was not born of the sperm of man. He was conceived of the Holy Ghost in the womb of then virgin Mary. No, sex involved this was an act of love by God for humanity.
For added emphasis, I state that the book of Isaiah was part of those scriptures which were found with the dead sea scrolls. This is what God states in the book of Isaiah:
Quote Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. Isa 53:7 ¶ He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Isa 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither [was any] deceit in his mouth.
Isa 53:10 ¶ Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Isa 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him [a portion] with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Verse 53:6 states that the “LORD has laid upon him the iniquity of us all” and 53:11 states that “by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many, for he shall bear their iniquities”.
Do you believe these scriptures are true?
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi BD:I believe that it is you that need to take a closer look at Isaiah 53 to see that this is speaking of Jesus and that God has made him the propitiation for the sins of humanity.
Jesus suffered all of the whippings, insults, and whatever else that mankind could do to him, but did not retaliate, and that is what is meant by him not opening his mouth. If he had, he would have sinned. He overcame sin by not retaliating against those who delivered him up to be crucified and those who actually crucified him. Mankind has the power to kill the body, but cannot kill the soul.
Jesus made intercession for mankind here when he said the following as they prepared to crucify him:
Quote
Luk 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyIf what you say is true you have a problem on your hands because it can be said that all sin is a result of not knowing “what they do” and therefore according to your own testimony it would not matter what religion or belief anyone has because “They know not what they do” so why do you believe in “backsliding”?
BTW, did you notice it says “by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many”
It doesn't say by his death.
Hi BD:Do the following scriptures say death?
Quote Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Isa 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither [was any] deceit in his mouth.The scriptures define sin as the “transgression of the law”, and yes men do for the most part know that they are doing wrong, but they do it in unbelief, but even in the case of a backslider God is able to forgive if someone comes to Him with a repentant heart through the provision that He has made.
Quote 1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.Love in Christ,
Marty
You assume Isaiah is talking about Jesus but if that is so consider this:Isaiah 54
8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.
God was never angry with Jesus. The suffering servant is Israel or any other servant that has struggles.
17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.
Also when Isaiah speaks in chapter 53:
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
How could you believe that Jesus was despised and rejected of men when the fact is they plotted to kill him because of his popularity and power?
Hi BD:Isaiah 54 is speaking of Israel, but Isaiah 53 is speaking of Jesus. God did lay the inquity of all of us on the nation of Israel.
Jesus was despised and rejected of men.
Quote Jhn 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Jhn 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:Quote Luk 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
Luk 23:35 And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided [him], saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.
Luk 23:36 And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar,
Luk 23:37 And saying, If thou be the king of the Jews, save thyself.
Luk 23:38 And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
Luk 23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and usLove in Christ,
Marty
Marty it seems your doing a little selective belief.The world was not made by Jesus.
If you have read the gospels you would have noticed that Jesus was attracting large crowds that simply loved him. The crowds loved him so much they would follow him and some massive crowds would go hungry just to hear him talk. The people that hated or disliked him was in the minority for sure.
The tax collectors invited him for dinner and many many who were “sinners” believed in him. Do you deny these scriptural facts!?
Hi BD:No, the world was not made by Jesus, God made the world with him in mind. The present world is temporary, and is meant for the purpose of calling men into a relationship with God through the provision that He has made.
God made man in his own image. The first Adam was made a living soul, like God in that he has a mind, a free will, and emotions. The last Adam, Jesus, is like God in that he is a spirit of love. He is the express image of God's person, and we who are born again Christians are becoming like him as we learn to apply his Word in our daily lives.
God is the creator. The Son is God's heir and those in the body of Christ are joint heirs with him.
Quote Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 ¶ For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell;
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, , whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.
Love in Christ,
Marty
That was a good post, but you do realize that the term “son” is a name of Honour not of physicality or reality, right?Quote (bodhitharta @ July 25 2009,07:18) Quote (942767 @ July 25 2009,07:03) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 25 2009,06:38) Quote (942767 @ July 25 2009,06:13) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 25 2009,05:46) Quote (942767 @ July 25 2009,05:00) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 24 2009,20:48) Quote (942767 @ July 24 2009,15:29) Quote (942767 @ July 24 2009,10:14) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 24 2009,05:58) Every man shall die for his own sin: 2 Chronicles 25
4But he slew not their children, but did as it is written in the law in the book of Moses, where the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not die for the children, neither shall the children die for the fathers, but every man shall die for his own sin.and again:
Proverbs 24 (King James Version)
12 If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works?
and Jesus says:
Matthew 16 (King James Version)
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Hi BD:Every man born of the sperm of man, including Muhammad, have sinned and therefore, every one of us who have been born of the sperm of man can not die for someone else since we have our own sin.
Jesus was not born of the sperm of man. He was conceived of the Holy Ghost in the womb of then virgin Mary. No, sex involved this was an act of love by God for humanity.
For added emphasis, I state that the book of Isaiah was part of those scriptures which were found with the dead sea scrolls. This is what God states in the book of Isaiah:
Quote Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. Isa 53:7 ¶ He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Isa 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither [was any] deceit in his mouth.
Isa 53:10 ¶ Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Isa 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him [a portion] with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Verse 53:6 states that the “LORD has laid upon him the iniquity of us all” and 53:11 states that “by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many, for he shall bear their iniquities”.
Do you believe these scriptures are true?
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi BD:I believe that it is you that need to take a closer look at Isaiah 53 to see that this is speaking of Jesus and that God has made him the propitiation for the sins of humanity.
Jesus suffered all of the whippings, insults, and whatever else that mankind could do to him, but did not retaliate, and that is what is meant by him not opening his mouth. If he had, he would have sinned. He overcame sin by not retaliating against those who delivered him up to be crucified and those who actually crucified him. Mankind has the power to kill the body, but cannot kill the soul.
Jesus made intercession for mankind here when he said the following as they prepared to crucify him:
Quote
Luk 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyIf what you say is true you have a problem on your hands because it can be said that all sin is a result of not knowing “what they do” and therefore according to your own testimony it would not matter what religion or belief anyone has because “They know not what they do” so why do you believe in “backsliding”?
BTW, did you notice it says “by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many”
It doesn't say by his death.
Hi BD:Do the following scriptures say death?
Quote Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Isa 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither [was any] deceit in his mouth.The scriptures define sin as the “transgression of the law”, and yes men do for the most part know that they are doing wrong, but they do it in unbelief, b
ut even in the case of a backslider God is able to forgive if someone comes to Him with a repentant heart through the provision that He has made.Quote 1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.Love in Christ,
Marty
You assume Isaiah is talking about Jesus but if that is so consider this:Isaiah 54
8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.
God was never angry with Jesus. The suffering servant is Israel or any other servant that has struggles.
17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.
Also when Isaiah speaks in chapter 53:
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
How could you believe that Jesus was despised and rejected of men when the fact is they plotted to kill him because of his popularity and power?
Hi BD:Isaiah 54 is speaking of Israel, but Isaiah 53 is speaking of Jesus. God did lay the inquity of all of us on the nation of Israel.
Jesus was despised and rejected of men.
Quote Jhn 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Jhn 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:Quote Luk 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
Luk 23:35 And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided [him], saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.
Luk 23:36 And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar,
Luk 23:37 And saying, If thou be the king of the Jews, save thyself.
Luk 23:38 And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
Luk 23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and usLove in Christ,
Marty
Marty it seems your doing a little selective belief.The world was not made by Jesus.
If you have read the gospels you would have noticed that Jesus was attracting large crowds that simply loved him. The crowds loved him so much they would follow him and some massive crowds would go hungry just to hear him talk. The people that hated or disliked him was in the minority for sure.
The tax collectors invited him for dinner and many many who were “sinners” believed in him. Do you deny these scriptural facts!?
Hi BD:No, the world was not made by Jesus, God made the world with him in mind. The present world is temporary, and is meant for the purpose of calling men into a relationship with God through the provision that He has made.
God made man in his own image. The first Adam was made a living soul, like God in that he has a mind, a free will, and emotions. The last Adam, Jesus, is like God in that he is a spirit of love. He is the express image of God's person, and we who are born again Christians are becoming like him as we learn to apply his Word in our daily lives.
God is the creator. The Son is God's heir and those in the body of Christ are joint heirs with him.
Quote Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 ¶ For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell;
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, , whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.
Love in Christ,
Marty
That was a good post, but you do realize that the term “son” is a name of Honour not of physicality or reality, right?
Hi BD:More that just personal honor. He is the “ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF LIVING GOD”.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Nick Hassan @ July 25 2009,08:08) Hi BD,
Are you a son or is that just a term of honour for you?
What do you mean?Quote (942767 @ July 25 2009,08:38) Hi BD: More that just personal honor. He is the “ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF LIVING GOD”.
Love in Christ,
Marty
So are you suggesting that God begat like:Genesis 5(King James Version)
3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:
Is this what God did with Jesus?
God can create human beings He does not give birth to children literally as human beings do. If at all Jesus was virgin born he must have been created in the womb of Mary (though I don't believe in virgin birth).
Quote (gollamudi @ July 25 2009,17:44) God can create human beings He does not give birth to children literally as human beings do. If at all Jesus was virgin born he must have been created in the womb of Mary (though I don't believe in virgin birth).
You are right that God creates humans and doesn't procreate like humans that is why I do believe in the virgin birth because it proves that Jesus is a creation and a servant and not a “Son” in a literal sense he is a son in the same way Adam is called the son of God.After all Eve came out of a Virgin man therefor it is only just that a man would come out of a virgin woman.
Quote (gollamudi @ July 25 2009,17:44) God can create human beings He does not give birth to children literally as human beings do. If at all Jesus was virgin born he must have been created in the womb of Mary (though I don't believe in virgin birth).
Hi GM,
When did you lose faith in the Spirit of God working through Matthew?
How about through you?Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 26 2009,10:31) Quote (gollamudi @ July 25 2009,17:44) God can create human beings He does not give birth to children literally as human beings do. If at all Jesus was virgin born he must have been created in the womb of Mary (though I don't believe in virgin birth).
Hi GM,
When did you lose faith in the Spirit of God working through Matthew?
How about through you?
Why is it you accuse him of losing faith? Perhaps you should explore what people are saying and believing to arrive at the truth.Just knocking someone down because they don't automatically assume everything written is exact and correct is not right.
No Jew believes it happened but you don't seem so anxiou sto knowck them, All Muslims believe it and you don't seem to be excited to love them and invite them into your life.
Quote (bodhitharta @ July 26 2009,12:35) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 26 2009,10:31) Quote (gollamudi @ July 25 2009,17:44) God can create human beings He does not give birth to children literally as human beings do. If at all Jesus was virgin born he must have been created in the womb of Mary (though I don't believe in virgin birth).
Hi GM,
When did you lose faith in the Spirit of God working through Matthew?
How about through you?
Why is it you accuse him of losing faith? Perhaps you should explore what people are saying and believing to arrive at the truth.Just knocking someone down because they don't automatically assume everything written is exact and correct is not right.
No Jew believes it happened but you don't seem so anxiou sto knowck them, All Muslims believe it and you don't seem to be excited to love them and invite them into your life.
All the sin we have is on God He has become sin for us.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2009,16:17) Hi EF,
Did your god become sin and die?Come and join US[1cor8]
Our God is immortal.[Tim]
If you really believe that GOD became a curse for us then say so if not your theology is done.Thinker explain to EF how God has become accursed and teach EF your vision of Anti-Christ!
Quote (942767 @ July 24 2009,10:14) Quote Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. I want to reply with a quote from http://www.netzarim.co.il containing a translation according to etymology: “(And he is being profaned from our felonies, being crushed from our misdemeanors; the chastisement for our welfare is upon him, and in his wounds we may heal ourselves.)
Heal Ourselves?
Nothing could be more perfectly in line with Tor•âh′, which stipulates that one must do his or her utmost to keep the mi•tzәw•ot′ Tor•âh′ (see, inter alia, the Shәm•a′) in return for which ha-Sheim′ promises ki•pur′. In diametric contrast to Christianity's displacement theology, man-g-d and misojudaism, tәshuv•âh′ is ha-Sheim′'s “plan of salvation.”The only way one can be “healed” is by tәshuv•âh′: “healing oneself”!!! י–ה requires that you serve Him according to His Tor•âh′. No one can do that for you!
In the 1st century, Rib′i Yәho•shu′a was profaned by the false charges leveled at him by the pseudo-Tzәdoq•im′, false charges causing his undeserved death: felonies. He was wrongly crushed by the silence of fellow Jews—”standing idly by his blood”—in the face of the Hellenists (particularly the Roman occupiers): misdemeanors. Unlike Rabbi Aqiva, Rib′i Yәho•shu′a didn't muster a fighting army. Thus, also unlike Rabbi Aqiva, the wrath of the Romans occupiers was vented in one man: Rib′i Yәho•shu′a. The Hellenists, particularly the Roman occupiers, took out their wrath (which was against the anti-Hellenist Pәrush•im′, whom the Hellenists viewed as a a political threat) on Rib′i Yәho•shu′a. Thus, “our welfare [was] upon him.”
Since 135 C.E., Rib′i Yәho•shu′a has been profaned by the Jewish acceptance, echoing and promulgation of the most basic Christian Gospel linchpin: that the post-135 C.E. misojudaic Christian Jesus is the same as, lә-hav•dil′, the Pәrush•i′ Rib′i Yәho•shu′a. Thus, Jews have been complicit with Christians in cloaking Rib′i Yәho•shu′a in a feculent mantle of Christian idolatry and misojudaism. (See, in this connection, Zәkhar•yâh′ chapter 3.)
Because of his willingness to pay the ultimate price to adhere to Tor•âh′—and the results in forever changing the world and its destiny, “in his wounds we may heal ourselves”: that is, we may learn to (make tәshuv•âh′ as necessary to) emulate his example of adhering to the mi•tzәw•ot′ Tor•âh′ despite any cost.” (found in the above website; in History Museum (left panel); Mashiakh-section (top menu))
Anders Branderud
Quote (bodhitharta @ July 24 2009,05:58)
In another thread Gene wrote to Adam regarding this same subject:Quote Adam……..Maybe this will help. it's not about Just forgiveness, that would be easy GOD could Just forgive us any time He wanted to right? Yes he can, in fact he says he can punish or have mercy on whomever he wills
Quote But He can not break his word , scripture says the soul that sins it shall die, in this case it means Parish forever , because if our soul dies we are gone for ever. Here is where the error in thinking happens, first of all it doesn't say “perish forever” so that is speculative and inserting personal opinion in the scriptures but more importantly if God says that “the soul that sins shall die” How can he break that word by allowing another soul to take it's place notice it says “The Soul” it doesn't say “some soul” but “The Soul”
Quote So what is it about, it is about the (JUSTICE) OF GOD AND HIS WORD. Wrong again, it is about Judgement and Mercy
Quote Some think well we just “repent” and think GOD will except this and forgive us, but you see the word of GOD himself Would be compromised. That is untrue as God already said He can have mercy on whomever he wants. He also has said that those who repent will be forgiven. Read Jonah and see how God allowed His Mercy to overide the judgement of destruction because these people repented.
Quote Now if we were to pay for our own SINS, the Price tag is eternal death, because he said the (SOUL) the sins shall die. Yes, but he said the soul that repents shall live:
Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Ezekiel 33:10-12But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby.
Ezekiel 33:18-20Quote When a Soul dies that is it for ever, So you see the dilemma here, we could never Pay for our sins and still live , But Justice was served for our sins by the sacrifice of Jesus, a life for a Life, Repentance is redemption
Quote Jesus was our debt, price tag for full payment of our sins, and also the judgement of GOD and God's Word was satisfied. That is why it says we have been bought with a Price. We were delievered from the death sentence pronounced on us , by the blood of Jesus Christ. GOD accepted that sacrifice as our payment for our sins. IMO Every man shall die for his own sin:
2 Chronicles 25
4But he slew not their children, but did as it is written in the law in the book of Moses, where the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not die for the children, neither shall the children die for the fathers, but every man shall die for his own sin.and again:
Proverbs 24 (King James Version)
12 If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works?
and Jesus says:
Matthew 16 (King James Version)
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY ABOUT VICARIOUS ATONEMENT?
One wonders why throughout the four Gospels, Jesus never speaks about his death serving as a sacrifice to atone for the sins of the world. Is the idea that an innocent person can be killed instead of those who are guilty consistent with what the Bible teaches? After the sin of the Golden Calf, G-d expressed His intention to destroy the Jewish people. Moses intercedes, and offers to die in their place. In response, G-d says “Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book!” (Exodus 32:32-33). Throughout the Bible, G-d says that one person cannot die for the sins of another:“Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin” (Deuteronomy 24:16, II Kings 14:6).
“But everyone will die for his own sin; each man who eats sour grapes, his teeth will be set on edge” (Jeremiah 31:30).
“The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father's iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son's iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself” (Ezekiel 18:20).
“No man can by any means redeem his brother, or give to G-d a ransom for him” (Psalms 49:7).
“So you shall not pollute the land in which you are; for blood pollutes the land and no expiation can be made for the land for the blood that is shed on it, except by the blood of him who has shed it!” (Numbers 35:33).
Although Romans 4:5 says that Jesus justifies the ungodly, the Tanach teaches that “He who justifies the wicked, and he who condemns the righteous, both of them are an abomination to theL-rd” (Proverbs 17:15).
If indeed, Jesus came as the final sacrifice to atone for the sins of the world, why does the Tanach predict that the Temple will be rebuilt and sacrifices resumed?
“Even those I will bring to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar; for My house will be called a house of prayer for all the peoples.” (Isaiah 56:7). “From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia My worshipers, My dispersed ones will bring My offerings.” (Zephaniah 3:10)
“All the flocks of Kedar will be gathered together to you, the rams of Nebaioth will minister to you; they will go up with acceptance on My altar, and I shall glorify My glorious house.” (Isaiah 60:7)
“And I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will place them and multiply them, and will set My sanctuary in their midst forever.” (Ezekiel 37:26)
“And He will sit as a smelter and purifier of silver, and He will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, so that they may present to the L-rd offerings in righteousness. Then the offering of Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasant to the L-rd, as in the days of old and as in former years.” (Malachi 3:3-4)
“And every cooking pot in Jerusalem and in Judah will be holy to the L-rd of hosts; and all who sacrifice will come and take of them and boil in them.” (Zechariah 14:21) “And it shall be the princes part to provide the burnt offerings, the grain offerings, and the libations…to make atonement for the house of Israel.” (Ezekiel 45:17)
The Christian claim that our sins can only be forgiven if blood is shed on our behalf also seems to limit the power of G-d. It's ludicrous to say that G-d`s ability to forgive us is dependent on anything. One of the most basic teachings in the Bible is that since G-d is merciful, He often forgives us simply because He is merciful. “Who is a G-d like You, who pardons iniquity and passes over the rebellious act of the remnant of His possession? He does not retain His anger forever, because He delights in unchanging love.” (Micah 7:18; cf.Psalm 103:7-18). Even when we don't seek G-d appropriately, He has the ability to reach out to us with love and forgive us:
“Their heart was not steadfast toward Him, nor were they faithful in His covenant. But He, being compassionate, forgave their iniquity…remembering that they were but flesh.” (Psalms 78:36-39)
“You have not brought Me the sheep of your burnt offerings…or the fat of your sacrifices, but you have burdened Me with your sins…Nevertheless, I will wipe out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins.” (Isaiah 43:23-25)
Quote (bodhitharta @ July 24 2009,04:58) Every man shall die for his own sin:
Hi BDEzekiel 18:4: Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father,
so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Heb.9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:John 5:21: For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and [makes alive]
them; even so the Son [makes alive] whom he will.
John 6:44: No man can come to me, except the Father which
hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.Quote (Ed J @ June 16 2010,04:24) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 24 2009,04:58) Every man shall die for his own sin:
Hi BDEzekiel 18:4: Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father,
so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Heb.9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:John 5:21: For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and [makes alive]
them; even so the Son [makes alive] whom he will.
John 6:44: No man can come to me, except the Father which
hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Jesus did not sin so why do you think he died?Quote (bodhitharta @ June 16 2010,08:23) Quote (Ed J @ June 16 2010,04:24) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 24 2009,04:58) Every man shall die for his own sin:
Hi BDEzekiel 18:4: Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father,
so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Heb.9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:John 5:21: For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and [makes alive]
them; even so the Son [makes alive] whom he will.
John 6:44: No man can come to me, except the Father which
hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Jesus did not sin so why do you think he died?
Hi BD,Because the romans killed him on a cross for 'your sins'. (John 12:24)
Matt.26:45 Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them,
Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand,
and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.
Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice,
he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit:
and having said thus, he gave up the spirit.Ed J
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
