Every man shall die for his own sin

[bodhitharta]

Every man shall die for his own sin:

2 Chronicles 25
4But he slew not their children, but did as it is written in the law in the book of Moses, where the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not die for the children, neither shall the children die for the fathers, but every man shall die for his own sin.

and again:

Proverbs 24 (King James Version)

12 If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works?

and Jesus says:

Matthew 16 (King James Version)

27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
You are neither a Jew nor a follower of Jesus unaware of the mercy of God so why would you attempt to teach us about forgiveness given by our God of love?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 24 2009,07:36)

Hi BD, You are neither a Jew nor a follower of Jesus unaware of the mercy of God so why would you attempt to teach us about forgiveness given by our God of love?

Nick you yourself told another poster to find three scriptrures that clearly agree and it is fact.

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
You have not found three that say the same thing.

The sin that matters to God is rejection of the Son of God.[jn3,jn16]
Those who do risk dying in their sins and remaining under the wrath of God[jn3].

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 24 2009,09:12)

Hi BD, You have not found three that say the same thing. The sin that matters to God is rejection of the Son of God.[jn3,jn16] Those who do risk dying in their sins and remaining under the wrath of God[jn3].

you are being a hypocrite. Jesus said each will be judged according to their works not your belief of ther works.

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
Are these the works shown in the mercy judgement of Mt 25 towards those whose works helped the sons of God?

Whosoever gives you a cup of water because you belong to me will not lose his reward.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 24 2009,09:21)

Hi BD, Are these the works shown in the mercy judgement of Mt 25 towards those whose works helped the sons of God? Whosoever gives you a cup of water because you belong to me will not lose his reward.

No! Whatever the the works, they will all be judged.

[942767]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 24 2009,05:58)

Every man shall die for his own sin: 2 Chronicles 25 4But he slew not their children, but did as it is written in the law in the book of Moses, where the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not die for the children, neither shall the children die for the fathers, but every man shall die for his own sin. and again: Proverbs 24 (King James Version) 12 If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works? and Jesus says: Matthew 16 (King James Version) 27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Hi BD:

Every man born of the sperm of man, including Muhammad, have sinned and therefore, every one of us who have been born of the sperm of man can not die for someone else since we have our own sin.

Jesus was not born of the sperm of man. He was conceived of the Holy Ghost in the womb of then virgin Mary. No, sex involved this was an act of love by God for humanity.

For added emphasis, I state that the book of Isaiah was part of those scriptures which were found with the dead sea scrolls. This is what God states in the book of Isaiah:

Quote

Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. Isa 53:7 ¶ He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. Isa 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither [was any] deceit in his mouth. Isa 53:10 ¶ Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. Isa 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him [a portion] with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Verse 53:6 states that the “LORD has laid upon him the iniquity of us all” and 53:11 states that “by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many, for he shall bear their iniquities”.

Do you believe these scriptures are true?

Love in Christ,
Marty

[bodhitharta]

Quote (942767 @ July 24 2009,10:14)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 24 2009,05:58) Every man shall die for his own sin: 2 Chronicles 25 4But he slew not their children, but did as it is written in the law in the book of Moses, where the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not die for the children, neither shall the children die for the fathers, but every man shall die for his own sin. and again: Proverbs 24 (King James Version) 12 If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works? and Jesus says: Matthew 16 (King James Version) 27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Hi BD: Every man born of the sperm of man, including Muhammad, have sinned and therefore, every one of us who have been born of the sperm of man can not die for someone else since we have our own sin. Jesus was not born of the sperm of man.  He was conceived of the Holy Ghost in the womb of then virgin Mary.  No, sex involved this was an act of love by God for humanity. For added emphasis, I state that the book of Isaiah was part of those scriptures which were found with the dead sea scrolls.  This is what God states in the book of Isaiah: Quote Isa 53:6   All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.   Isa 53:7 ¶ He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.   Isa 53:8   He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.   Isa 53:9   And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither [was any] deceit in his mouth.   Isa 53:10 ¶ Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.   Isa 53:11   He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.   Isa 53:12   Therefore will I divide him [a portion] with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. Verse 53:6 states that the “LORD has laid upon him the iniquity of us all”  and 53:11 states that “by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many, for he shall bear their iniquities”. Do you believe these scriptures are true? Love in Christ, Marty

Marty,

I want you to see clearly Marty what the scripture is actually saying.

Did Jesus not open his Mouth? The scripture has Jesus saying many things at that time.

Also it says “by his knowledge” shall my righteous servant justify many it doe not say by his death.

And yes it says he made intercession for the transgressors how can a dead person make intercession? Jesus made intercession at his baptism.

Jesus is making intercession because People are responsible for their own sins if Jesus could pay the sin for all the people he would not need to intercede.

It was because of the sins of the people he was stricken in other words the scriptures show it was because of the sins of many that Jesus was plotted against.

Jesus said that every man will be judged according to thy works. Do you believe what Jesus said or not?

[NickHassan]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 24 2009,09:44)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 24 2009,09:21) Hi BD, Are these the works shown in the mercy judgement of Mt 25 towards those whose works helped the sons of God? Whosoever gives you a cup of water because you belong to me will not lose his reward. No! Whatever the the works, they will all be judged.

Hi BD,
This sounds like the harsh legalism of Islam and their god.
Our God is loving and merciful

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
It was God who began the sacrifical system to atone for sin.
If you have never accepted it your argument is with him.

Our God loves to forgive.

[942767]

Quote (942767 @ July 24 2009,10:14)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 24 2009,05:58) Every man shall die for his own sin: 2 Chronicles 25 4But he slew not their children, but did as it is written in the law in the book of Moses, where the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not die for the children, neither shall the children die for the fathers, but every man shall die for his own sin. and again: Proverbs 24 (King James Version) 12 If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works? and Jesus says: Matthew 16 (King James Version) 27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Hi BD: Every man born of the sperm of man, including Muhammad, have sinned and therefore, every one of us who have been born of the sperm of man can not die for someone else since we have our own sin. Jesus was not born of the sperm of man.  He was conceived of the Holy Ghost in the womb of then virgin Mary.  No, sex involved this was an act of love by God for humanity. For added emphasis, I state that the book of Isaiah was part of those scriptures which were found with the dead sea scrolls.  This is what God states in the book of Isaiah: Quote Isa 53:6   All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.   Isa 53:7 ¶ He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.   Isa 53:8   He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.   Isa 53:9   And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither [was any] deceit in his mouth.   Isa 53:10 ¶ Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.   Isa 53:11   He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.   Isa 53:12   Therefore will I divide him [a portion] with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. Verse 53:6 states that the “LORD has laid upon him the iniquity of us all”  and 53:11 states that “by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many, for he shall bear their iniquities”. Do you believe these scriptures are true? Love in Christ, Marty

Hi BD:

I believe that it is you that need to take a closer look at Isaiah 53 to see that this is speaking of Jesus and that God has made him the propitiation for the sins of humanity.

Jesus suffered all of the whippings, insults, and whatever else that mankind could do to him, but did not retaliate, and that is what is meant by him not opening his mouth. If he had, he would have sinned. He overcame sin by not retaliating against those who delivered him up to be crucified and those who actually crucified him. Mankind has the power to kill the body, but cannot kill the soul.

Jesus made intercession for mankind here when he said the following as they prepared to crucify him:

Quote

Luk 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 24 2009,13:42)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 24 2009,09:44) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 24 2009,09:21) Hi BD, Are these the works shown in the mercy judgement of Mt 25 towards those whose works helped the sons of God? Whosoever gives you a cup of water because you belong to me will not lose his reward. No! Whatever the the works, they will all be judged. Hi BD, This sounds like the harsh legalism of Islam and their god. Our God is loving and merciful

So you don't believe what Jesus said?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 24 2009,14:58)

Hi BD, It was God who began the sacrifical system to atone for sin. If you have never accepted it your argument is with him. Our God loves to forgive.

Jeremiah 7 (King James Version)

21 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Put your burnt offerings unto your sacrifices, and eat flesh.

22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

Psalm 4 (King James Version)

4 Stand in awe, and sin not: commune with your own heart upon your bed, and be still. Selah.

5 Offer the sacrifices of righteousness, and put your trust in the LORD.

BTW, It is I that keeps saying that Allah(God) loves to forgive whomever He pleases by whatever means He pleases.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (942767 @ July 24 2009,15:29)

Quote (942767 @ July 24 2009,10:14) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 24 2009,05:58) Every man shall die for his own sin: 2 Chronicles 25 4But he slew not their children, but did as it is written in the law in the book of Moses, where the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not die for the children, neither shall the children die for the fathers, but every man shall die for his own sin. and again: Proverbs 24 (King James Version) 12 If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works? and Jesus says: Matthew 16 (King James Version) 27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Hi BD: Every man born of the sperm of man, including Muhammad, have sinned and therefore, every one of us who have been born of the sperm of man can not die for someone else since we have our own sin. Jesus was not born of the sperm of man.  He was conceived of the Holy Ghost in the womb of then virgin Mary.  No, sex involved this was an act of love by God for humanity. For added emphasis, I state that the book of Isaiah was part of those scriptures which were found with the dead sea scrolls.  This is what God states in the book of Isaiah: Quote Isa 53:6   All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.   Isa 53:7 ¶ He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.   Isa 53:8   He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.   Isa 53:9   And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither [was any] deceit in his mouth.   Isa 53:10 ¶ Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.   Isa 53:11   He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.   Isa 53:12   Therefore will I divide him [a portion] with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. Verse 53:6 states that the “LORD has laid upon him the iniquity of us all”  and 53:11 states that “by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many, for he shall bear their iniquities”. Do you believe these scriptures are true? Love in Christ, Marty Hi BD: I believe that it is you that need to take a closer look at Isaiah 53 to see that this is speaking of Jesus and that God has made him the propitiation for the sins of humanity. Jesus suffered all of the whippings, insults, and whatever else that mankind could do to him, but did not retaliate, and that is what is meant by him not opening his mouth.  If he had, he would have sinned.  He overcame sin by not retaliating against those who delivered him up to be crucified and those who actually crucified him.  Mankind has the power to kill the body, but cannot kill the soul. Jesus made intercession for mankind here when he said the following as they prepared to crucify him: Quote Luk 23:34   Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.   Love in Christ, Marty

Marty

If what you say is true you have a problem on your hands because it can be said that all sin is a result of not knowing “what they do” and therefore according to your own testimony it would not matter what religion or belief anyone has because “They know not what they do” so why do you believe in “backsliding”?

BTW, did you notice it says “by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many”

It doesn't say by his death.

[NickHassan]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 24 2009,20:22)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 24 2009,13:42) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 24 2009,09:44) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 24 2009,09:21) Hi BD, Are these the works shown in the mercy judgement of Mt 25 towards those whose works helped the sons of God? Whosoever gives you a cup of water because you belong to me will not lose his reward. No! Whatever the the works, they will all be judged. Hi BD, This sounds like the harsh legalism of Islam and their god. Our God is loving and merciful So you don't believe what Jesus said?

Hi Bd,
God so loved the world….?

[942767]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 24 2009,20:48)

Quote (942767 @ July 24 2009,15:29) Quote (942767 @ July 24 2009,10:14) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 24 2009,05:58) Every man shall die for his own sin: 2 Chronicles 25 4But he slew not their children, but did as it is written in the law in the book of Moses, where the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not die for the children, neither shall the children die for the fathers, but every man shall die for his own sin. and again: Proverbs 24 (King James Version) 12 If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works? and Jesus says: Matthew 16 (King James Version) 27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Hi BD: Every man born of the sperm of man, including Muhammad, have sinned and therefore, every one of us who have been born of the sperm of man can not die for someone else since we have our own sin. Jesus was not born of the sperm of man.  He was conceived of the Holy Ghost in the womb of then virgin Mary.  No, sex involved this was an act of love by God for humanity. For added emphasis, I state that the book of Isaiah was part of those scriptures which were found with the dead sea scrolls.  This is what God states in the book of Isaiah: Quote Isa 53:6   All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.   Isa 53:7 ¶ He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.   Isa 53:8   He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.   Isa 53:9   And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither [was any] deceit in his mouth.   Isa 53:10 ¶ Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.   Isa 53:11   He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.   Isa 53:12   Therefore will I divide him [a portion] with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. Verse 53:6 states that the “LORD has laid upon him the iniquity of us all”  and 53:11 states that “by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many, for he shall bear their iniquities”. Do you believe these scriptures are true? Love in Christ, Marty Hi BD: I believe that it is you that need to take a closer look at Isaiah 53 to see that this is speaking of Jesus and that God has made him the propitiation for the sins of humanity. Jesus suffered all of the whippings, insults, and whatever else that mankind could do to him, but did not retaliate, and that is what is meant by him not opening his mouth.  If he had, he would have sinned.  He overcame sin by not retaliating against those who delivered him up to be crucified and those who actually crucified him.  Mankind has the power to kill the body, but cannot kill the soul. Jesus made intercession for mankind here when he said the following as they prepared to crucify him: Quote Luk 23:34   Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.   Love in Christ, Marty Marty If what you say is true you have a problem on your hands because it can be said that all sin is a result of not knowing “what they do” and therefore according to your own testimony it would not matter what religion or belief anyone has because “They know not what they do” so why do you believe in “backsliding”? BTW, did you notice it says “by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many” It doesn't say by his death.

Hi BD:

Do the following scriptures say death?

Quote

Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. Isa 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither [was any] deceit in his mouth.

The scriptures define sin as the “transgression of the law”, and yes men do for the most part know that they are doing wrong, but they do it in unbelief, but even in the case of a backslider God is able to forgive if someone comes to Him with a repentant heart through the provision that He has made.

Quote

1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[bodhitharta]

Quote (942767 @ July 25 2009,05:00)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 24 2009,20:48) Quote (942767 @ July 24 2009,15:29) Quote (942767 @ July 24 2009,10:14) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 24 2009,05:58) Every man shall die for his own sin: 2 Chronicles 25 4But he slew not their children, but did as it is written in the law in the book of Moses, where the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not die for the children, neither shall the children die for the fathers, but every man shall die for his own sin. and again: Proverbs 24 (King James Version) 12 If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works? and Jesus says: Matthew 16 (King James Version) 27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Hi BD: Every man born of the sperm of man, including Muhammad, have sinned and therefore, every one of us who have been born of the sperm of man can not die for someone else since we have our own sin. Jesus was not born of the sperm of man.  He was conceived of the Holy Ghost in the womb of then virgin Mary.  No, sex involved this was an act of love by God for humanity. For added emphasis, I state that the book of Isaiah was part of those scriptures which were found with the dead sea scrolls.  This is what God states in the book of Isaiah: Quote Isa 53:6   All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.   Isa 53:7 ¶ He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.   Isa 53:8   He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.   Isa 53:9   And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither [was any] deceit in his mouth.   Isa 53:10 ¶ Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.   Isa 53:11   He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.   Isa 53:12   Therefore will I divide him [a portion] with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. Verse 53:6 states that the “LORD has laid upon him the iniquity of us all”  and 53:11 states that “by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many, for he shall bear their iniquities”. Do you believe these scriptures are true? Love in Christ, Marty Hi BD: I believe that it is you that need to take a closer look at Isaiah 53 to see that this is speaking of Jesus and that God has made him the propitiation for the sins of humanity. Jesus suffered all of the whippings, insults, and whatever else that mankind could do to him, but did not retaliate, and that is what is meant by him not opening his mouth.  If he had, he would have sinned.  He overcame sin by not retaliating against those who delivered him up to be crucified and those who actually crucified him.  Mankind has the power to kill the body, but cannot kill the soul. Jesus made intercession for mankind here when he said the following as they prepared to crucify him: Quote Luk 23:34   Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.   Love in Christ, Marty Marty If what you say is true you have a problem on your hands because it can be said that all sin is a result of not knowing “what they do” and therefore according to your own testimony it would not matter what religion or belief anyone has because “They know not what they do” so why do you believe in “backsliding”? BTW, did you notice it says “by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many” It doesn't say by his death. Hi BD: Do the following scriptures say death? Quote Isa 53:8   He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.   Isa 53:9   And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither [was any] deceit in his mouth. The scriptures define sin as the “transgression of the law”, and yes men do for the most part know that they are doing wrong, but they do it in unbelief, but even in the case of a backslider God is able to forgive if someone comes to Him with a repentant heart through the provision that He has made. Quote 1Ti 2:5   For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;   1Ti 2:6   Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.   Love in Christ, Marty

You assume Isaiah is talking about Jesus but if that is so consider this:

Isaiah 54

8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.

God was never angry with Jesus. The suffering servant is Israel or any other servant that has struggles.

17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against
thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.

Also when Isaiah speaks in chapter 53:

3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

How could you believe that Jesus was despised and rejected of men when the fact is they plotted to kill him because of his popularity and power?

[942767]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 25 2009,05:46)

Quote (942767 @ July 25 2009,05:00) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 24 2009,20:48) Quote (942767 @ July 24 2009,15:29) Quote (942767 @ July 24 2009,10:14) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 24 2009,05:58) Every man shall die for his own sin: 2 Chronicles 25 4But he slew not their children, but did as it is written in the law in the book of Moses, where the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not die for the children, neither shall the children die for the fathers, but every man shall die for his own sin. and again: Proverbs 24 (King James Version) 12 If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works? and Jesus says: Matthew 16 (King James Version) 27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Hi BD: Every man born of the sperm of man, including Muhammad, have sinned and therefore, every one of us who have been born of the sperm of man can not die for someone else since we have our own sin. Jesus was not born of the sperm of man.  He was conceived of the Holy Ghost in the womb of then virgin Mary.  No, sex involved this was an act of love by God for humanity. For added emphasis, I state that the book of Isaiah was part of those scriptures which were found with the dead sea scrolls.  This is what God states in the book of Isaiah: Quote Isa 53:6   All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.   Isa 53:7 ¶ He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.   Isa 53:8   He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.   Isa 53:9   And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither [was any] deceit in his mouth.   Isa 53:10 ¶ Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.   Isa 53:11   He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.   Isa 53:12   Therefore will I divide him [a portion] with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. Verse 53:6 states that the “LORD has laid upon him the iniquity of us all”  and 53:11 states that “by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many, for he shall bear their iniquities”. Do you believe these scriptures are true? Love in Christ, Marty Hi BD: I believe that it is you that need to take a closer look at Isaiah 53 to see that this is speaking of Jesus and that God has made him the propitiation for the sins of humanity. Jesus suffered all of the whippings, insults, and whatever else that mankind could do to him, but did not retaliate, and that is what is meant by him not opening his mouth.  If he had, he would have sinned.  He overcame sin by not retaliating against those who delivered him up to be crucified and those who actually crucified him.  Mankind has the power to kill the body, but cannot kill the soul. Jesus made intercession for mankind here when he said the following as they prepared to crucify him: Quote Luk 23:34   Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.   Love in Christ, Marty Marty If what you say is true you have a problem on your hands because it can be said that all sin is a result of not knowing “what they do” and therefore according to your own testimony it would not matter what religion or belief anyone has because “They know not what they do” so why do you believe in “backsliding”? BTW, did you notice it says “by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many” It doesn't say by his death. Hi BD: Do the following scriptures say death? Quote Isa 53:8   He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.   Isa 53:9   And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither [was any] deceit in his mouth. The scriptures define sin as the “transgression of the law”, and yes men do for the most part know that they are doing wrong, but they do it in unbelief, but even in the case of a backslider God is able to forgive if someone comes to Him with a repentant heart through the provision that He has made. Quote 1Ti 2:5   For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;   1Ti 2:6   Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.   Love in Christ, Marty You assume Isaiah is talking about Jesus but if that is so consider this: Isaiah 54 8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer. God was ne ver angry with Jesus. The suffering servant is Israel or any other servant that has struggles. 17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD. Also when Isaiah speaks in chapter 53: 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. How could you believe that Jesus was despised and rejected of men when the fact is they plotted to kill him because of his popularity and power?

Hi BD:

Isaiah 54 is speaking of Israel, but Isaiah 53 is speaking of Jesus. God did lay the inquity of all of us on the nation of Israel.

Jesus was despised and rejected of men.

Quote

Jhn 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. Jhn 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:

Quote

Luk 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. Luk 23:35 And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided [him], saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God. Luk 23:36 And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar, Luk 23:37 And saying, If thou be the king of the Jews, save thyself. Luk 23:38 And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS. Luk 23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us

Love in Christ,
Marty

[bodhitharta]

Quote (942767 @ July 25 2009,06:13)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 25 2009,05:46) Quote (942767 @ July 25 2009,05:00) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 24 2009,20:48) Quote (942767 @ July 24 2009,15:29) Quote (942767 @ July 24 2009,10:14) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 24 2009,05:58) Every man shall die for his own sin: 2 Chronicles 25 4But he slew not their children, but did as it is written in the law in the book of Moses, where the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not die for the children, neither shall the children die for the fathers, but every man shall die for his own sin. and again: Proverbs 24 (King James Version) 12 If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works? and Jesus says: Matthew 16 (King James Version) 27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Hi BD: Every man born of the sperm of man, including Muhammad, have sinned and therefore, every one of us who have been born of the sperm of man can not die for someone else since we have our own sin. Jesus was not born of the sperm of man.  He was conceived of the Holy Ghost in the womb of then virgin Mary.  No, sex involved this was an act of love by God for humanity. For added emphasis, I state that the book of Isaiah was part of those scriptures which were found with the dead sea scrolls.  This is what God states in the book of Isaiah: Quote Isa 53:6   All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.   Isa 53:7 ¶ He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.   Isa 53:8   He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.   Isa 53:9   And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither [was any] deceit in his mouth.   Isa 53:10 ¶ Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.   Isa 53:11   He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.   Isa 53:12   Therefore will I divide him [a portion] with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. Verse 53:6 states that the “LORD has laid upon him the iniquity of us all”  and 53:11 states that “by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many, for he shall bear their iniquities”. Do you believe these scriptures are true? Love in Christ, Marty Hi BD: I believe that it is you that need to take a closer look at Isaiah 53 to see that this is speaking of Jesus and that God has made him the propitiation for the sins of humanity. Jesus suffered all of the whippings, insults, and whatever else that mankind could do to him, but did not retaliate, and that is what is meant by him not opening his mouth.  If he had, he would have sinned.  He overcame sin by not retaliating against those who delivered him up to be crucified and those who actually crucified him.  Mankind has the power to kill the body, but cannot kill the soul. Jesus made intercession for mankind here when he said the following as they prepared to crucify him: Quote Luk 23:34   Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.   Love in Christ, Marty Marty If what you say is true you have a problem on your hands because it can be said that all sin is a result of not knowing “what they do” and therefore according to your own testimony it would not matter what religion or belief anyone has because “They know not what they do” so why do you believe in “backsliding”? BTW, did you notice it says “by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many” It doesn't say by his death. Hi BD: Do the following scriptures say death? Quote Isa 53:8   He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.   Isa 53:9   And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither [was any] deceit in his mouth. The scriptures define sin as the “transgression of the law”, and yes men do for the most part know that they are doing wrong, but they do it in unbelief, but even in the case of a backslider God is able to forgive if someone comes to Him with a repentant heart through the provision that He has made. Quote 1Ti 2:5   For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;   1Ti 2:6   Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.   Love in Christ, Marty You assume Isaiah is talking about Jesus b ut if that is so consider this: Isaiah 54 8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer. God was never angry with Jesus. The suffering servant is Israel or any other servant that has struggles. 17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD. Also when Isaiah speaks in chapter 53: 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. How could you believe that Jesus was despised and rejected of men when the fact is they plotted to kill him because of his popularity and power? Hi BD: Isaiah 54 is speaking of Israel, but Isaiah 53 is speaking of Jesus.  God did lay the inquity of all of us on the nation of Israel. Jesus was despised and rejected of men. Quote Jhn 1:10   He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.   Jhn 1:11   He came unto his own, and his own received him not.   Jhn 1:12   But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:   Quote Luk 23:34   Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.   Luk 23:35   And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided [him], saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.   Luk 23:36   And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar,   Luk 23:37   And saying, If thou be the king of the Jews, save thyself.   Luk 23:38   And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.   Luk 23:39   And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us Love in Christ, Marty

Marty it seems your doing a little selective belief.

The world was not made by Jesus.

If you have read the gospels you would have noticed that Jesus was attracting large crowds that simply loved him. The crowds loved him so much they would follow him and some massive crowds would go hungry just to hear him talk. The people that hated or disliked him was in the minority for sure.

The tax collectors invited him for dinner and many many who were “sinners” believed in him. Do you deny these scriptural facts!?

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