Every Knee Shall Bow And Confess to God&#33;

Participant

Quote

Hi W,
I see.
So sharing of titles is proof of sharing of being.
Fine greek logic though every man of the same name or title on earth might dispute that.

Titles are Important NH. They reflect the nature or attributes of things.

How about these titles?

Jn 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

1 Cor 15:47
The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

Do you believe these scriptures?

February 25, 2007 at 8:34 am#42845

Participant

Hi W,
Titles can be given. David was not always a king.

February 25, 2007 at 9:45 am#42851

Proclaimer

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 23 2007,23:51)

Can you hear yourself? Are you making yourself equal in nature and Identity to Jesus?

Are you telling me you will sit in the same throne as the Father and the Lamb?

This kind of thinking comes from seeing Jesus as a merely a Son of God like us without accepting his deity.

All thrones are his.

………………………………

There is One throne reserved for Deity only!
……………………………….

Still trying to accuse the Trinitarian as being a modelist?

Have a good think about it!

OK WorshippingJesus, I had a good, but short think about it.

Here is my response:

Yes I can hear myself. Can you hear yourself?

Are you denying that we can sit with Christ on his throne?

Because that is what I said and I said it not because of the speculative and incorrect reason you gave but because it is written in scripture.

You are way off track in interpreting what I am saying. That gives me little confidence that you are able to interpret other people and the scriptures too.

Revelation 3:21
To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne.

You see. There is the Fathers throne and Christ's throne. Christ will sit with his Father and we can sit with the son.

How does that sit with your doctrine? Will you ignore it, change it, resist it, or will you change?

If you truly sought after truth, you would change when truth (that contradicts your understanding) is presented to you.

February 26, 2007 at 5:51 am#42941

Participant

Hi
The only throne of a father that Christ shall sit on is David his father5s throne

It is not God the father’s throne

Jer 33:21 [Then] may also my covenant be broken with David my servant, that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne; and with the Levites the priests, my ministers.

Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

Repairing the wastes of many generations

Selah

February 26, 2007 at 6:16 am#42944

Participant

Isa 9:7 Of the increase of [his] government and peace [there shall be] no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Thinking just that this throne is not visible to the earthly eye, as an in action government on earth.
For us only to by faith to become a part of
Many Instructions; he who discovers awakes from sleep; and comes to knowledge of being truly born again sent from God. In truth

charity

February 26, 2007 at 6:58 am#42947

Participant

I offer a key to the throne of the father and lamb if any should find fit. to use
Rev 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

Psa 89:20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him:
Psa 89:21 With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him.
Psa 89:22 The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him.
Psa 89:23 And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him.
Psa 89:24 But my faithfulness and my mercy [shall be] with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted.
Psa 89:25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers.
Psa 89:26 He shall cry unto me, Thou [art] my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation.
The Highest honour
Psa 89:27 Also I will make him [my] firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.
Psa 89:28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him. Psa 89:29 *His seed *also will I make [to endure] for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.

Edit;Covernent of life; a prepared body;The Name faithful and true WAS HE
Psa 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book [it is] written of me,
Psa 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law [is] within my heart.
Psa 40:9 I have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O LORD, thou knowest.
Psa 40:10 I have not hid thy righteousness within my heart; I have declared thy faithfulness and thy salvation: I have not concealed thy lovingkindness and thy truth from the great congregation.
Psa 40:11 Withhold not thou thy tender mercies from me, O LORD: let thy lovingkindness and thy truth continually preserve me.
Psa 73:28 But [it is] good for me to draw near to God: I have put my trust in the Lord GOD, that I may declare all thy works.

charity

February 26, 2007 at 7:44 am#42954

Participant

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 25 2007,09:45)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 23 2007,23:51)

Can you hear yourself? Are you making yourself equal in nature and Identity to Jesus?

Are you telling me you will sit in the same throne as the Father and the Lamb?

This kind of thinking comes from seeing Jesus as a merely a Son of God like us without accepting his deity.

All thrones are his.

………………………………

There is One throne reserved for Deity only!
……………………………….

Still trying to accuse the Trinitarian as being a modelist?

Have a good think about it!

OK WorshippingJesus, I had a good, but short think about it.

Here is my response:

Yes I can hear myself. Can you hear yourself?

Are you denying that we can sit with Christ on his throne?

Because that is what I said and I said it not because of the speculative and incorrect reason you gave but because it is written in scripture.

You are way off track in interpreting what I am saying. That gives me little confidence that you are able to interpret other people and the scriptures too.

Revelation 3:21
To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne.

You see. There is the Fathers throne and Christ's throne. Christ will sit with his Father and we can sit with the son.

How does that sit with your doctrine? Will you ignore it, change it, resist it, or will you change?

If you truly sought after truth, you would change when truth (that contradicts your understanding) is presented to you.

Why did you leave half of my post out?

The answer to your question is right before you.

So lets examine it closer then.

You quote…

Quote

Revelation 3:21
To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne.

First of all if you look closely at this scripture you see Jesus saying 2 things.

1. I will give the right to sit with me on my throne

2. Just as I overcame and sat down with my Father in his throne

Notice 2 thrones!

How can this be t8?

How can he sit in two thrones? His throne and the Fathers throne?

Because he is the Lord from heaven, God.

All thrones were made by him!

Col 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

How many other thrones are there?

Matt 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Luk 22:30
That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Rev 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

t8. Is it possible for the Lord from heaven, Jesus, to sit in more than One throne, since he is the creator of them, and since by his Spirit he fills all things and upholds all things?

Does he not dwell in his body, the born again believers by his Spirit?

Who are we talking about here? God? Or is he another one of The Fathers anointed messengers or a Son of God like you and I in every way as many would claim?

What I see is men trying to make the Monogenes “Unique” Son of God after their “mans” fallen image rather than exalting Jesus as who he is ”The second Adam, The Lord from heaven”.

We must become like him. He is not to become like us!

You say…

Quote

Are you denying that we can sit with Christ on his throne?

Not at all. I am saying that you will not sit in the throne of God which is reserved only for deity!

Rev 5:13
And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

Rev 7:15
Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

You say…

Quote

Because that is what I said and I said it not because of the speculative and incorrect reason you gave but because it is written in scripture.

Let the scriptures judge who is being correct!

You say…

Quote

You are way off track in interpreting what I am saying. That gives me little confidence that you are able to interpret other people and the scriptures too.

I don’t expect you to have any confidence in me t8. You have all ready shown disdain for me by accusing me of being a false teacher, lost, and blind Etc.

And as far as misinterpreting other people, it’s the apossers of the Trinitarians that are experts at misrepresentation!

So we must not go outside of scriptures as you teach.

Since there are many thrones, and Jesus owns them all, then we know we will sit with him in his throne!

But show me a scripture where we sit in the Fathers throne?

Now look close…

Rev 4:10
The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,

Rev 5:11,13
And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;….
And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, [be] unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and
ever.

Rev 7:9,10,11
After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

You say…

Quote

You see. There is the Fathers throne and Christ's throne. Christ will sit with his Father and we can sit with the son.

Jesus the Lamb is seated with the Father, and we shall sit with Christ in his thrones.

But we will not share deity with Yeshua, the Lord from heaven and the Father.

That my friend is a throne reserved for God Only!

You say…

Quote

How does that sit with your doctrine? Will you ignore it, change it, resist it, or will you change?

If you truly sought after truth, you would change when truth (that contradicts your understanding) is presented to you.

These same words back to you my friend in Love!

Blessings

February 26, 2007 at 7:48 am#42955

Participant

First born of God among many to follow

One last attempt to enlighten the resurrection of life
All must to take part in the first resurrection to have the power of death swallowed up.

Rev 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

The Highest honor to David
Psa 89:27 Also I will make him [my] firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.

Psa 89:28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him. Psa 89:29 His seed also will I make [to endure] for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.

Prophesy to the house of David in resurrection of life;
Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.

Predestinate by the Holy Ghost [to be] conformed to the image of his Son; that he David is the first born by resurrection of life born again
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

We without the fathers may not be made perfect
Hbr 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.

Hbr 11:38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and [in] mountains, and [in] dens and caves of the earth.
Hbr 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Hbr 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

February 26, 2007 at 8:00 am#42958

Proclaimer

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 27 2007,02:44)

Why did you leave half of my post out?

I highlighted that which was relevant to my reply.

February 26, 2007 at 8:06 am#42959

Participant

Can you see the throne that God gives to him?

Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

Repairing the wastes of many generations

charity

February 26, 2007 at 8:12 am#42960

Proclaimer

Participant

To WorshippingJesus.

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 27 2007,02:44)

t8. Is it possible for the Lord from heaven, Jesus, to sit in more than One throne, since he is the creator of them, and since by his Spirit he fills all things and upholds all things?

You said it. All I said was Jesus will sit on his Father's throne and we can sit with Christ on his and you came up with this theory that I said such a thing because I basically do not accept his deity.

Can you see your mistake? I only quoted scripture and then you came up with a wrong reason for my words. When I quoted the scripture that I was repeating you then say that Jesus sits on more than one throne.

You seem awfully confused and you are not coming across very clear at all. It also makes it clearer as to why you deny the scriptures that many quote here showing that Jesus is the Lord and the son of God and how God made him Lord. In other words if you deny scripture so quickly then try to recover so as to not be caught out when you find out it is scriptural, then how many other truths have people uttered that you condemned? Makes you think doesn't it?

To sum up, all I did was quote scripture without reference to the fact it was a scripture and you accused me of believing such a thing because of your interpretation that I lack a certain belief. Yet I was only repeating scripture.

Anyway I remember another member (a staunch Trinitarian too) who was caught out the same way you were. I quoted a scripture without reference to the fact it was a scripture and then he argued against it. When I showed him it was a scripture, he completely lost the plot and still argued against it. At least you turned around and accepted that Jesus sits with his Father on his throne and we will sit with Christ on his.

Your reasons for why I said such a thing is wrong. It was just a simple matter of me quoting a scripture.

Perhaps you can see now that it is possible that you deny scriptures in other areas too, even if you do not realise it. After all you clearly demonstrated it on this occasion.

February 26, 2007 at 3:44 pm#43001

Participant

Quote (charity @ Feb. 26 2007,08:06)

Can you see the throne that God gives to him?

Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

Repairing the wastes of many generations

charity

Charity

Do you think that the throne in Revelations is the same throne David sat on?

Did David sit in the throne of YHWY?

February 26, 2007 at 6:27 pm#43003

Participant

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 26 2007,08:12)

To WorshippingJesus.

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 27 2007,02:44)

t8. Is it possible for the Lord from heaven, Jesus, to sit in more than One throne, since he is the creator of them, and since by his Spirit he fills all things and upholds all things?

Your reasons for why I said such a thing is wrong. It was just a simple matter of me quoting a scripture.

Perhaps you can see now that it is possible that you deny scriptures in other areas too, even if you do not realise it. After all you clearly demonstrated it on this occasion.

You say…

Quote

My original response was in reaction to your statement of the following…

Quote

Can you hear yourself?

“Seated at the right hand of God.”

And you should also know that we are seated with Christ on his throne.

If we are seated with Christ are we Christ?

“Jesus is seated at the right hand of God.”

Have a good think about it.

This response is inferring that Jesus is not God/deity or implying a Modelist view. If I am wrong I apologize.

So I ask you t8 do you believe Jesus is God/deity? Not the Father, Im not talking about a modelist view. Do you believe he is Deity?

You say…

Quote

Again if I misunderstood I applogize.

2 questions to this response…

1. Again do you believe Jesus is deity?
2. Do you believe that we shall sit in the Fathers throne?

You say…

Quote

Why do you misrepresent me?
Do you think this adds validity to your words to the readers of this forum? Do you think they cannot see through your words?

Please show me where I have denied as you say ” Jesus is the Lord and the son of God and how God made him Lord”.

Please give me a quote where I have denied scripture here.

I have denied the “interpretations” of many here, but I have never denied the scripture as being part of my Christology.

I am not saying my theology is perfect. But I will need irrefutable evidence before I change my belief. The evidence has to be in harmony with “all the scriptures”.

I think any sincere child of God should feel that way about what they believe or they are just a ship without a rutter, blown about by every wind of doctrine.

Every doctrine needs to be tested against the “whole” of scriptures and if it does not fit the puzzle then it should be thrown out.

Also Please tell me in your opinion when God made Jesus Lord!

You say…

Quote

Again I apologize if I misunderstood you.

But again I would ask you.

Do you believe in the deity of Christ and do you believe we will sit in the Fathers throne?

You say…

Quote

Yes it is true Trinitarians are not perfect and we do make mistakes and we do not have perfect knowledge.

Is there anyone here that does?

To clear up what you are saying, I did not “turn around” as you say. I have always believed the Fathers throne is for deity only, and I have never denied that we could sit in Christ throne if we overcame.

You Say…

Quote

Your reasons
for why I said such a thing is wrong. It was just a simple matter of me quoting a scripture.

Perhaps you can see now that it is possible that you deny scriptures in other areas.

If in your stating that because “we will sit in Christ throne does not mean we are Christ”, is implying that Jesus is not God, or implying the Modelist view.

Then I stand by my post. If this is not what you mean. Then I apologize.

No I don’t deny the scriptures or turn from them. I may disagree with your interpretation, but the scriptures still works in my theology!

Please answer my questions.

1. Is Jesus God/Deity?

2. Do we at anytime sit in the throne of God reserved for the Father and the Lamb/Yeshua?

3. When IYO did God make Jesus Lord?

Blessings

February 26, 2007 at 7:44 pm#43008

Participant

Hi w,
You say
“No I don’t deny the scriptures or turn from them. I may disagree with your interpretation, but the scriptures still works in my theology!”

It is meant to be the other way around.

February 26, 2007 at 8:11 pm#43011

Participant

Quote

Hi w,
You say
“No I don’t deny the scriptures or turn from them. I may disagree with your interpretation, but the scriptures still works in my theology!”

It is meant to be the other way around.

Ok what should I say? “My theology works in scripture”. This seems to imply that I have an established theology before it works in scriptures.

NH. Does your theology fit the scriptures, or does the scriptures fit you theology?

Does you feet fit in your shoes or does your shoes fit on your feet.

Whats difference?

Are you just bored and have a need to be contentious?

:blues:

February 26, 2007 at 8:18 pm#43013

Participant

Hi W,
You are meant to derive your beliefs from scripture yourself, not accept the beliefs of catholicism and then search the scriptures for verses to justify those beliefs.

February 26, 2007 at 8:43 pm#43015

Participant

Quote

Hi W,
You are meant to derive your beliefs from scripture yourself, not accept the beliefs of catholicism and then search the scriptures for verses to justify those beliefs.

When I came to know Jesus, I began to search the scriptures concerning himself.

I knew nothing of the Catholics or of Constantine.

And this scripture along with hundreds of others is what I found.

1 Cor 15:47
The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

Tell me NH.

When you came to a saving knowledge of Jesus, was it the saving knowledge of God?

February 26, 2007 at 8:48 pm#43016

Participant

Hi W,
Is the man, the Lord from heaven, your God?
Did the living God become a man and die?
Sounds like a horror movie.

February 26, 2007 at 8:54 pm#43018