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Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 12 2007,04:01) Well t8, let's see if your view holds up to scrutiny. We can look at some of the verses dealing with the Spirit and see if your “truth” fits the scriptures. You hold that the Holy Spirit is the Father's personal spirit, right? Please, if you could just give me a 'yes' or 'no', it would be appreciated.
Good dodge Is 1:18.I noticed that you completely ignored John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.Please explain how the Trinity fits that one.
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 11 2007,09:48) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 12 2007,03:23) Is 1:18 Excellent!
It just occurred to me that you have to have the Spirit of God in you to see it.
Only the Spirit of God can reveal the Oneness shared in the Godhead!
Well if that was true then the bible wasn't inspired by the Spirit of God.https://heavennet.net/writings/trinity-11.htm
John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.It is not the Spirit of God that reveals the Trinity to a believer, rather it comes from Babylon.
Men with itching ears have a whole supermarket of doctrines and teachings they can choose from, but a noble person chooses to let the truth change him. If you believe that scripture is true, then you have to accept that believers should believe that there is one God the Father and he is the true God.
t8So why dont you talk about the Spirit t8?
And give us some of your insight.
Why steer away from it?
Is there any of your writings that deal with the subject? If there isnt any, why not?
Please answer and enlighten us with your understanding of the Spirit of Christ or the Holy Spirit or the Spirit of God that must dwell in you as One Spirit to be saved!
Plurality of Oneness. There is no other way to harmonize
the scriptures. God is Plural and yet one.Check it out, Jesus claims he is God, One with the Father…
Jn 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ(the Lord from heaven), whom thou hast sent.Tell me t8, if Jesus did not believe that he was the Word/God, then why out of the same breath does he say that Eternal life was also to know him even as the Father?
Its because we are to give the same honour to the Son as the Father as God.
Jn 5:23
That all men should honour the Son,(The Lord from heaven) even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son(The Lord from heaven) honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.Honour Gr:”timao” Which means…
1) to estimate, fix the value
a) for the value of something belonging to one's self
2) to honour, to have in honour, to revere, venerate
Revere:
To show devoted deferential honor to : regard as worthy of great honor
synonyms: revere, reverence, venerate, worship, adore
Venerate:
1 : to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference
2 : to honor (as an icon or a relic) with a ritual act of devotionCan a man ascribe these emotions to a lord or a god other than the true God without breaking the Shema?
Duet 6:
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is ONE LORD:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Listen to these words from the Lord our God!
Jn 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.Jn 14:23
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.“And *we* will come unto him, and make *our* abode with him.”
How are they gonna do that?
God did not change his mind. It was set before the foundation of the world that the only Saviour, the Lord our God would come in likeness of sinfull flesh and become the Lamb of God that was slain before the foudation of the world.
When the Lord said to our Lord, the Word Let Us make man in our image, he meant let us make man in the image of God.
And so In the beginning God, The Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit that moved upon the face of the waters, created man.
Jn 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him: and without him (God) was not any thing made that was made.Anyone giving less honour to Jesus than the Father in any way is a thief and a robber and trying to climb up to God apart from Jesus.
Jesus is the Door and the Porter and the Shephard…
Jn 10:
1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the Door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robberI pray God that everyman see that Jesus is to be honoured and esteemed as a valued prize as the Father, for with the same honour we give to the Father we should give to the Son as God.
You cant have God without having the Son!
And having the Son means you have God!
Jn 5:39
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.(The Lord from heaven)Would God write a biography of any one but himself?
Hey Guys whats all the big fuss. If Jesus was simply a Son of God like you and I then why didnt they say so.
Why did it take an Angel to reveal it to Mary and a divine revelation to Peter?
1 Tim 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.You see I can tell people all day Jesus is the *Son of God* and many will say, “cool we are all sons of God”.
But it takes the Spirit of revelation to know who and what The Monogenes Son of God is.
Mk 4:
9 And he said unto them, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
10 And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.
11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 11 2007,10:42) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 12 2007,04:01) Well t8, let's see if your view holds up to scrutiny. We can look at some of the verses dealing with the Spirit and see if your “truth” fits the scriptures. You hold that the Holy Spirit is the Father's personal spirit, right? Please, if you could just give me a 'yes' or 'no', it would be appreciated.
Good dodge Is 1:18.I noticed that you completely ignored John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.Please explain how the Trinity fits that one.
Why don't you make that your first proof text when the debate begins….
BTW, you have a question to answer in the Holy Spirit thread.
Quote “I am not buying it especially when I see many “Christians” calling other “Christians” “daughters of the whore”, simply because their doctrines differ” WJ, you don't have to buy it. It's free! There ARE sincere Christians in other dnominations. That's why scripture calls them out!
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come forth, my people, out of her, that ye have no fellowship with her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues:
However there are some who simply will never come out.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness doth already work: only there is one that restraineth now, until he be taken out of the way
2Th 2:8 And then shall be revealed the lawless one, whom the Lord Jesus shall slay with the breath of his mouth, and bring to nought by the manifestation of his coming;
2Th 2:10 and with all deceit of unrighteousness for them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God sendeth them a working of error, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 that they all might be judged who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.So you see (don't you) by the above scriptures those who don't love and seek the truth will be deceived.
The lawless one HAS been revealed. There is only one who has changed the LAW! The lawless one, the Pope.
Scripture says that the lawless one has daughters who keep her doctrine.
“I see many “Christians” calling other “Christians” “daughters of the whore”, simply because their doctrines differ.”
There doctrines are of the lawless one, are they not?! Come out of her my people. That is the end time message.
“I am not God and fear I would be sticking my finger in the “Apple of His Eye” by casting judgment on one who confesses Jesus as their Saviour.”
Are you judging when you use His word to bring truth to set the captives free? Is it you who judges or God Himself and His word! If you are sincere and love and seek truth then why would God let you be deceived unless you really don't want the truth. This I know if by chance you don't get it exactly right the Holy Spirit will make it right. There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.
Fear not! If no one challenged the lawless one, how would the children ever be called out. REV 18:4
“So anyway, I think this whole ordeal about the Catholic Church is blown way out of proportion. I think that the bigger picture is there are many Churchs changing the Word of God.”
Blown out of proportion by what? SCRIPTURE! The word of God.
If you have made up your mind (for now) that is YOUR decision but you should not spread her poison to others.
You can't be in the middle anymore this is the endtime message. It's time to come out of her lest you partake of her plauges. Heed scripture brother not man!
IHN&L,
Ken
Again, this is your interpretation and you have a right to it. But thats all it is to me is your interpretation, foir the Spirit of God has not shown such to me.
The scriptures you quote against Trinitarians can also be quoted against the Apossers or the Arian followers!
Most of them line up with Watch Tower.
But I will leave their hearts to God! There is self proclaimed prophets all over the world that accuse the brethren and condemn them. These are the messangers of satan, and their purpose is to draw men after themselves and bring division and condemnation, and also causing many to forsake the assembling of themselves together.
Supposedly they are the called out. Callled out to what? To another brand of heresy or man made doctrine or revelation or another sect.
2 Tim 1:12
For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.My Faith and Salvation rest in My Lord and My God! As many born again Spirit filled Trinitarians all over the world!
To me your words of condemnation and distain toward these children of God are poisen!
Hi w,
1 Tim 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into gloryWhy do you rely on verses whose translation depends on only some manuscripts?
Why do you bother to uplift human doctrines at the expense of simple wisdom?
Whom do you really serve?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 12 2007,10:24) Hi w,
1 Tim 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into gloryWhy do you rely on verses whose translation depends on only some manuscripts?
Why do you bother to uplift human doctrines at the expense of simple wisdom?
Whom do you really serve?
NHOK!
Lets see what the other translators say and see if it makes a difference!
1 Tom 3:16
NLT
Without question, this is the great mystery of our faith:
Christ* appeared in the flesh and was shown to be righteous by the Spirit. He was seen by angels and was announced to the nations. He was believed on in the world and was taken up into heaven.NIV
Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great: He appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.ESV
Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He* was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit,
seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations,
believed on in the world, taken up in glory.NASB
By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, Was vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory.
RSV
Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of our religion: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.
ASV
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; He who was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the spirit, Seen of angels, Preached among the nations, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.YLT
and, confessedly, great is the secret of piety — God was manifested in flesh, declared righteous in spirit, seen by messengers, preached among nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory!DT
And confessedly the mystery of piety is great. God has been manifested in flesh, has been justified in [the] Spirit, has appeared to angels, has been preached among [the] nations, has been believed on in [the] world, has been received up in glory.WB
And without controversy, great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached to the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.HNV
Without controversy, the mystery of godliness is great: God was revealed in the flesh, Justified in the spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the nations, Believed on in the world, And received up in glory.So who was the “HE”?
He is the Word that was with God and was God, which all the major translators translated **WAS GOD**.
Since the Word/God according to John was tabernacled amoong us, (took on human form a Body), then it dosnt take a rocket scientist to know that…
**God** was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
What do you think this great Mystery is that Paul speaks of?
Just a Son of God like you and I?
He is your Creator NH! Your Lord and your God!
**The Lord from Heaven**
Believe his word and not some man made doctrine that steals away the Honour due to the Son my friend!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 12 2007,18:38) Hi W,
Have you heard of the Son of God?
He came and died for us.
God is his Father.
A vessel for God.
NHYes I have! But my understanding of the Son of God is not yours.
Have you heard of The Lord from heaven? God in the flesh?
The Word/God made flesh?
The Father speaks of him…
Heb. 1:
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.Why do you insist on denying these scriptures?
Hi W,
Heb. 1:
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.So the God spoken of by God here, is the Son of God.
He is not the God of the bible nor the God Who is addressing him.
His God is our God.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 12 2007,21:31) Hi W,
Heb. 1:
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.So the God spoken of by God here, is the Son of God.
He is not the God of the bible nor the God Who is addressing him.
His God is our God.
NHSo you are a Polythiest, or Henotheist?
You say…
Quote He is not the God of the bible nor the God Who is addressing him. Who do you think the scriptures testify of?
God would not write a biography of a lessor god and then ask us to give our lives to him and bow down and worship him!
There is only One God!
The Father, Son and Holy Spirit!
Hi W,
I am a bible believer so am not interested in labels.
So the Father is not the father of Jesus in any way as a PERSON in God so the term FATHER is really a misnomer?
Or do you rather believe now in GOD BEING A ONENESS of three persons?Hi W,
You say
“God would not write a biography of a lessor god and then ask us to give our lives to him and bow down and worship him!There is only One God!
The Father, Son and Holy Spirit!”
Yet your own name says you choose to worship one person in your trinity god.
That says a lot.Hi w,
You say
“Have you heard of The Lord from heaven? God in the flesh?”
Do you not know the Lord from heaven, the Son of God?
God is his father.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 12 2007,22:03) Hi W,
I am a bible believer so am not interested in labels.
So the Father is not the father of Jesus in any way as a PERSON in God so the term FATHER is really a misnomer?
Or do you rather believe now in GOD BEING A ONENESS of three persons?
NHThe Father is the Father of Jesus the Man, but what about the Word/God that came in the flesh or the Lord from heaven?
Did he not exist before he was born a Son!
Was he not the creator of the universe? Are not all things upheld by him?
I suppose this creator just stopped being the creator or the Lord from heaven simply because he took on the “Likeness of Sinfull flesh”?
The world was made by him and the world knew him not!
They had no idea they had crucified “The Lord of Glory”
1 Jn 4:
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ (the Lord from heaven) is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ (the Lord from heaven) is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.You dont believe the Bible my friend, you believe part of it!
You cant even get past Jn 1:1!
Hi w,
you say
“So who was the “HE”?He is the Word that was with God and was God, which all the major translators translated **WAS GOD**.”
NIV
16Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great:
He[a] appeared in a body,
was vindicated by the Spirit,
was seen by angels,
was preached among the nations,
was believed on in the world,
was taken up in glory.Footnotes:
1 Timothy 3:16 Some manuscripts God
1 Timothy 3:16 Or in the fleshNote that it is not a matter of translation but of manuscript variation, and only SOME say God.
Either way God was manifest within the vessel of The Son.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 12 2007,22:29) Hi w,
you say
“So who was the “HE”?He is the Word that was with God and was God, which all the major translators translated **WAS GOD**.”
NIV
16Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great:
He[a] appeared in a body,
was vindicated by the Spirit,
was seen by angels,
was preached among the nations,
was believed on in the world,
was taken up in glory.Footnotes:
1 Timothy 3:16 Some manuscripts God
1 Timothy 3:16 Or in the fleshNote that it is not a matter of translation but of manuscript variation, and only SOME say God.
Either way God was manifest within the vessel of The Son.
NHHow is it you took my quote of Jn 1:1 “the Word was God”
And then expound on 1 Tim 3:16 which I have already shown it still means the same thing?
He, the Word/God was manifest in the flesh!
So give me your interpretation of Jn 1:1 then!
Hi w,
You say.
“The Father is the Father of Jesus the Man, but what about the Word/God that came in the flesh or the Lord from heaven?”
But your God has three persons and the Father is not the person of whom scripture says Jesus was conceived.
Yet you make this statement-on what basis?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 12 2007,22:40) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 12 2007,22:29) Hi w,
you say
“So who was the “HE”?He is the Word that was with God and was God, which all the major translators translated **WAS GOD**.”
NIV
16Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great:
He[a] appeared in a body,
was vindicated by the Spirit,
was seen by angels,
was preached among the nations,
was believed on in the world,
was taken up in glory.Footnotes:
1 Timothy 3:16 Some manuscripts God
1 Timothy 3:16 Or in the fleshNote that it is not a matter of translation but of manuscript variation, and only SOME say God.
Either way God was manifest within the vessel of The Son.
NHHow is it you took my quote of Jn 1:1 “the Word was God”
And then expound on 1 Tim 3:16 which I have already shown it still means the same thing?
He, the Word/God was manifest in the flesh!
So give me your interpretation of Jn 1:1 then!
Hi W,
You know the Word WAS GOD AND WAS WITH GOD?
Was your God also the God he was with?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 12 2007,22:49) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 12 2007,22:40) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 12 2007,22:29) Hi w,
you say
“So who was the “HE”?He is the Word that was with God and was God, which all the major translators translated **WAS GOD**.”
NIV
16Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great:
He[a] appeared in a body,
was vindicated by the Spirit,
was seen by angels,
was preached among the nations,
was believed on in the world,
was taken up in glory.Footnotes:
1 Timothy 3:16 Some manuscripts God
1 Timothy 3:16 Or in the fleshNote that it is not a matter of translation but of manuscript variation, and only SOME say God.
Either way God was manifest within the vessel of The Son.
NHHow is it you took my quote of Jn 1:1 “the Word was God”
And then expound on 1 Tim 3:16 which I have already shown it still means the same thing?
He, the Word/God was manifest in the flesh!
So give me your interpretation of Jn 1:1 then!
Hi W,
You know the Word WAS GOD AND WAS WITH GOD?
Was your God also the God he was with?
NHJust what I thought you have to resort to modalism rather than give me your interpretation of Jn 1:1.
Or maybe you dont have one because Jn 1:1 is not in your Bible or theology!
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