Every Knee Shall Bow And Confess to God!

[Adam Pastor]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 09 2007,04:53)

Paul as a true Monothiest who called himself a Hebrew of the Hebrews knew that Jesus was God in the flesh.

http://adonimessiah.blogspot.com/2006/08/in-defence-of-paul.html

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Adam Pastor @ Mar. 10 2007,02:06)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 09 2007,04:53) Paul as a true Monothiest who called himself a Hebrew of the Hebrews knew that Jesus was God in the flesh. http://adonimessiah.blogspot.com/2006/08/in-defence-of-paul.html

AP

Cute post. But thats not what my Bible says.

Do you believe the scriptures AP or do you believe the testimony of men who contradict them?

You have your interpretation of the scriptures and I have mine, and I assure you my Lord and My God, the Father and Jesus through the Holy Spirit has revealed his truth to me!

Blessings

[Phoenix]

Hmmm well my bible says the same as AP's blog (or whoever the blog belongs to)

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Phoenix @ Mar. 10 2007,05:31)

Hmmm well my bible says the same as AP's blog (or whoever the blog belongs to)

Phoenix

Its these quotes I am referring to!

“Apparently Paul did not call Jesus God”
(Sydney Cave, D.D., Doctrine of the Person of Christ, p. 48).
“Paul never equates Jesus with God”
(W.R. Matthews, The Problem of Christ in the 20th Century,
Maurice Lectures, 1949, p. 22).
“Paul never gives to Christ the name or description of ‘God’”
(Dictionary of the Apostolic Church, Vol. 1, p. 194).
“You simply cannot find the doctrine of the Trinity set out anywhere in the Bible. St Paul has the highest view of Jesus’ role and person, but nowhere does he call him God. Nor does Jesus himself explicitly claim to be the second person of the Trinity, wholly equal to his heavenly Father.”
– For Christ’s Sake, by Tom Harpur.

And also what I believe to be a miss-translation of the scriptures he quotes!

Blessings  

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
Is trinity taught in the bible?
If no why would you believe it and not the bible?

[charity]

WorshippingJesus

Well then If you can’t be a good example — then you'll have to be a horrible warning.

Ignorance once Upon a time… God winked at
Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Assurance Day for the faithful
Act 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by [that] man whom he hath ordained; [whereof] he hath given assurance unto all [men], in that he hath raised him from the dead.

But now he has appointed a day of truth to judge this case, and [that] man whom he hath ordained; to prove he God did not raise himself up
Christ had the mind of God and his will was to do the fathers will, And he preformed on earth Gods will; and teach us also that we may do the same after him if we subdue our own wills enough to listen to his spirit

May not one hair on your head perish in ignorance

Amen

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Cubes @ Mar. 09 2007,01:51)

Hi WJ, I've just seen your post but have not read it through yet. Anyhow, it would be a while before I can return to the rest of it.  It is surprising that you would disagree with me as I've said nothing differently by saying Jesus is the first/primary gift.  You cannot deny that one must FIRST believe in Jesus to enter into eternal life.  It's John 3:16!  Just laying eyes on him does not automatically give anyone eternal life, does it? God so loved the world and gave his son, that believing in him (1), we should not perish but have (2) eternal life. Hope to return soon!

Cubes

I do not deny that you have to come to Christ by faith!

But faith is not enough is it?

Faith without works is dead. I am not talking about the works of the law, but unless we open our hearts and recieve (drink) of the Spirit we cannot be saved, or have Eternal life.

We must be born again by the Spirit.

We cannot recieve Christ apart from his Spirit!

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (charity @ Mar. 10 2007,06:07)

WorshippingJesus Well then  If you can’t be a good example — then you'll have to be a horrible warning. Ignorance once Upon a time… God winked at Act 17:30  And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Assurance Day for the faithful Act 17:31  Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by [that] man whom he hath ordained; [whereof] he hath given assurance unto all [men], in that he hath raised him from the dead. But now he has appointed a day of truth to judge this case, and [that] man whom he hath ordained; to prove he God did not raise himself up Christ had the mind of God and his will was to do the fathers will, And he preformed on earth Gods will; and teach us also that we may do the same after him if we subdue our own wills enough to listen to his spirit May not one hair on your head perish in ignorance Amen

Charity

Thanks!

I love his word dont you?

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
Then why not listen to him?

He who is not our God said this about the One Who is.

Mt 22
“31But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,

32I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.”

The word was written by God as Spirit through men.
Jesus did not claim he was that God but told men about his Father.

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
You say
“We must be born again by the Spirit.

We cannot recieve Christ apart from his Spirit!”

So is the Holy Spirit not a separate person after all but the Spirit of Christ?
Or is the Holy Spirit, by which Christ was conceived and anointed, not for us?
Or do we have only to be born of the spirit of Christ and not the Holy Spirit?
Or do we have to be born of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ?
Is the Holy Spirit the Spirit of God but not the Spirit of Christ in your view?
How many spirits are there in your view and which is which and of which must we be born again.?
Do we follow Jesus in this regard as he seemed to be anointed with One Spirit?

Does that make one, two or three?

[kenrch]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 10 2007,01:36)

Quote (kenrch @ Mar. 10 2007,01:11) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 10 2007,00:13) Quote (kenrch @ Mar. 09 2007,23:26) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 09 2007,23:13) Quote (kenrch @ Mar. 09 2007,22:49) WJ, “For I am not defending the Catholic Church. In fact there is all kinds of organizations all over the world that I am sure fit the descriptions you give” Could you please give me a few names of these organizations? My point is that to say that because one holds or believes in certain truths that they hold does not make one a “Daughter of the Whore”. Who is the whore, the Mother of Harlots? Who are her daughters?   If you hold to her “man made doctrines” as she then you are as she. IHN, Ken kenrch Can you show me a scripture that shows explicitly that the Catholic Church is the whore. How about Muslims that are killing the Jews and Christians. Is your interpretation of Revelations strictly “literal”. Is there not spritual meanings found. How about the Woman, is she not a type of believers in the Body of Christ world wide. Is that an organization. We know this because the scriptures tell us. But there is no scripture that says “Catholic”. Could it be the UN? Did God show you this? It could be the whore is made up of all the “religious that appose Christ.” That would not be limited to an organization would it? So all you have is an accusation to make toward me. Which is fine. I hold a trinitarian view. Instead of coming after me with speculation, how about going through my post and challenge my writtings. I would much prefer dialogue based on scripture. Blessings   “How about Muslims that are killing the Jews and Christians.” Did the Muslims change the law Dan 7:25? Do the Muslims call their priest or whatever Father.  Even if they do they don't believe in Jesus.  We know they don't but the HARLET suppose too.  Yet do the complete opposite of what Jesus said not to. I don't know but do the Muslims climb in bed with the governmentS of this world.  Do the Muslims have daughters? No I don't have any scripture that gives the name Catholic.  Just her discription.  Do you have any scripture that say it is not the Catholic church. “We know this because the scriptures tell us. But there is no scripture that says “Catholic”.” Are you for real? IHN, Ken kenrch You say… Quote Are you for real? What do you mean? Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. What I am saying is the Woman is the body of Christ, the Believers world wide is it not? Yet we know it is not an organization. It is an organism! So how do you know that the whore is not an organism of all the unbelievers or religous who are apposed to the Church of Jesus his Body? The anti-Christ spirit which is in the world now? So again, why argue over the “unknown” when there is so much room for interpretation? Lets have dialogue over the Word. So if you are so apposed “to me” which is what I feel, then go over my post and show me where I am unscriptural. And by the way a lot of Muslims do believe in Jesus. Not like you and I of course. Blessings   WJ, I certainly don't want to argue.  I just wanted to discuss why you don't think that the Catholic church is the whore and Mother of Harlets. There is only one church that has changed the law of God and that is the Catholic church. Dan 7:25  And he shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High; and he shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and half a time. Three and a half years is 1260 days which according to prophecy is 1260 years. Rev 12:6  And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that there they may nourish her a thousand two hundred and threescore days. Which is probably why it is said all throughout the bible that the church keeps the commandments of God . Because the POPE changed the commandments to prove that she (Catholic church) had the Power to do so. Is there anyother organization that has done this?  Because it all lines up with scripture don't you think? The Pope changed the law by changing the Sabbath day from the forth commandment to the third (in order to keep her graven images) And of course she changed the time from the Seventh to the First day. Is their another whore who has done this? IHN, Ken kenrch I always get a little skiddish when people start talking about days and years and that they have it figured out. The times Etc. For to often we have seen self proclaimed prophets predict wrong. If you hold to the belief that the Catholics are the Whore spoken of in Revelation, more power to you. I am not buying it especially when I see many “Christians” calling other “Christians” “daughters of the whore”, simply because their doctrines differ. There is a lot of genuine sincere born again Spirit filled believers in Trinitarian churchs and they are being labeled “whores”. Sorry brother I dont buy it. Also I personally do not attack anyones professed relationship with God on this sight because they dont believe like I do! I am not God and fear I would be sticking my finger in the “Apple of His Eye” by casting judgment on one who confesses Jesus as their Saviour. I may go after there doctrine and do! But I leave the heart up to God to judge! So anyway, I think this whole ordeal about the Catholic Church is blown way out of proportion. I think that the bigger picture is there are many Churchs changing the Word of God. JWs. For instance! Are they the Whore? 7th day Adventist, Mormons, Oneness, etc etc etc. All the Churchs in some way have changed the Word of God or miss-interpreted in some way. IMO Blessings

“I am not buying it especially when I see many “Christians” calling other “Christians” “daughters of the whore”, simply because their doctrines differ”

WJ, you don't have to buy it. It's free! There ARE sincere Christians in other dnominations. That's why scripture calls them out!

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come forth, my people, out of her, that ye have no fellowship with her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues:

However there are some who simply will never come out.

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness doth already work: only there is one that restraineth now, until he be taken out of the way

2Th 2:8 And then shall be revealed the lawless one, whom the Lord Jesus shall slay with the breath of his mouth, and bring to nought by the manifestation of his coming;

2Th 2:10 and with all deceit of unrighteousness for them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God sendeth them a working of error, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 that they all might be judged who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

So you see (don't you) by the above scriptures those who don't love and seek the truth will be deceived.

The lawless one HAS been revealed. There is only one who has changed the LAW! The lawless one, the Pope.

Scripture says that the lawless one has daughters who keep her doctrine.

“I see many “Christians” calling other “Christians” “daughters of the whore”, simply because their doctrines differ.”

There doctrines are of the lawless one, are they not?! Come out of her my people. That is the end time message.

“I am not God and fear I would be sticking my finger in the “Apple of His Eye” by casting judgment on one who confesses Jesus as their Saviour.”

Are you judging when you use His word to bring truth to set the captives free? Is it you who judges or God Himself and His word! If you are sincere and love and seek truth then why would God let you be deceived unless you really don't want the truth. This I know if by chance you don't get it exactly right the Holy Spirit will make it right. There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.

Fear not! If no one challenged the lawless one, how would the children ever be called out. REV 18:4

“So anyway, I think this whole ordeal about the Catholic Church is blown way out of proportion. I think that the bigger picture is there are many Churchs changing the Word of God.”

Blown out of proportion by what? SCRIPTURE! The word of God.

If you have made up your mind (for now) that is YOUR decision but you should not spread her poison to others.

You can't be in the middle anymore this is the endtime message. It's time to come out of her lest you partake of her plauges. Heed scripture brother not man!

IHN&L,

Ken

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 10 2007,09:16)

Hi W, You say “We must be born again by the Spirit. We cannot recieve Christ apart from his Spirit!” So is the Holy Spirit not a separate person after all but the Spirit of Christ? Or is the Holy Spirit, by which Christ was conceived and anointed, not for us? Or do we have only to be born of the spirit of Christ and not the Holy Spirit? Or do we have to be born of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ? Is the Holy Spirit the Spirit of God but not the Spirit of Christ in your view? How many spirits are there in your view and which is which and of which must we be born again.? Do we follow Jesus in this regard as he seemed to be anointed with One Spirit? Does that make one, two or three?

NH

You say…

Quote

We cannot recieve Christ apart from his Spirit!”

Isnt that what I have been saying all along!

In fact, tell me NH, whos Spirit is in you?

Spirit of Christ or Spirit of God or Holy Spirit?

Which one NH?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 10 2007,15:42)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 10 2007,09:16) Hi W, You say “We must be born again by the Spirit. We cannot recieve Christ apart from his Spirit!” So is the Holy Spirit not a separate person after all but the Spirit of Christ? Or is the Holy Spirit, by which Christ was conceived and anointed, not for us? Or do we have only to be born of the spirit of Christ and not the Holy Spirit? Or do we have to be born of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ? Is the Holy Spirit the Spirit of God but not the Spirit of Christ in your view? How many spirits are there in your view and which is which and of which must we be born again.? Do we follow Jesus in this regard as he seemed to be anointed with One Spirit? Does that make one, two or three? NH You say… Quote We cannot recieve Christ apart from his Spirit!” Isnt that what I have been saying all along! In fact, tell me NH, whos Spirit is in you? Spirit of Christ or Spirit of God or Holy Spirit? Which one NH?

NH

You say…

Quote

Do we follow Jesus in this regard as he seemed to be anointed with One Spirit?

Which Spirit is in you?

The Spirit of Christ or the One he was annointed with?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 10 2007,15:45)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 10 2007,15:42) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 10 2007,09:16) Hi W, You say “We must be born again by the Spirit. We cannot recieve Christ apart from his Spirit!” So is the Holy Spirit not a separate person after all but the Spirit of Christ? Or is the Holy Spirit, by which Christ was conceived and anointed, not for us? Or do we have only to be born of the spirit of Christ and not the Holy Spirit? Or do we have to be born of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ? Is the Holy Spirit the Spirit of God but not the Spirit of Christ in your view? How many spirits are there in your view and which is which and of which must we be born again.? Do we follow Jesus in this regard as he seemed to be anointed with One Spirit? Does that make one, two or three? NH You say… Quote We cannot recieve Christ apart from his Spirit!” Isnt that what I have been saying all along! In fact, tell me NH, whos Spirit is in you? Spirit of Christ or Spirit of God or Holy Spirit? Which one NH? NH You say… Quote Do we follow Jesus in this regard as he seemed to be anointed with One Spirit? Which Spirit is in you? The Spirit of Christ or the One he was annointed with?

NH

How many Spirits do you have?

Is it God who is a Spirit or Christ Spirit or Holy Spirit?

[NickHassan]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 10 2007,15:42)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 10 2007,09:16) Hi W, You say “We must be born again by the Spirit. We cannot recieve Christ apart from his Spirit!” So is the Holy Spirit not a separate person after all but the Spirit of Christ? Or is the Holy Spirit, by which Christ was conceived and anointed, not for us? Or do we have only to be born of the spirit of Christ and not the Holy Spirit? Or do we have to be born of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ? Is the Holy Spirit the Spirit of God but not the Spirit of Christ in your view? How many spirits are there in your view and which is which and of which must we be born again.? Do we follow Jesus in this regard as he seemed to be anointed with One Spirit? Does that make one, two or three? NH You say… Quote We cannot recieve Christ apart from his Spirit!” Isnt that what I have been saying all along! In fact, tell me NH, whos Spirit is in you? Spirit of Christ or Spirit of God or Holy Spirit? Which one NH?

Hi W,
So you say there are three Spirits?
Not so.
One Spirit.

This you would know if the
Holy Spirit of God in Christ
was in you teaching you.

And you would be united and seeking further union with those in Christ.

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
Can you expound this verse for us
Acts 10.38
How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

In what way does God anointing His son Jesus with His Spirit support a trinity?

[Is 1:18]

I think WJ has made a valid point, the “One Spirit” (1 Cor 12:13, Eph 2:18, 4:4) and “One God” (Eph 4:6) that indwells believers is definately a “we”:

John 14:23
23Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.

John 14:16-17
16″I will ask the Father, and He will give you another (Gr. allos = another of the same kind) Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

[NickHassan]

Hi Is 1.18,
The descriptions of the nature and attributes of the One Spirit of God and Christ is described in various ways in Jn 14-16 and Rom 8 especially. But that IS the Holy Spirit and not another third person.

[Is 1:18]

So….is the Holy Spirit a collective term for the spirits of the Father and Son?

[NickHassan]

Hi Is 1.18.
Jesus had his own human spirit which left him at death.
Did it return at his resurrection as with the girl in Lk 8

” 51And when he came into the house, he suffered no man to go in, save Peter, and James, and John, and the father and the mother of the maiden.

52And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth.

53And they laughed him to scorn, knowing that she was dead.

54And he put them all out, and took her by the hand, and called, saying, Maid, arise.

55And her spirit came again, and she arose straightway: and he commanded to give her meat.

56And her parents were astonished: but he charged them that they should tell no man what was done.”

I do not know but that is another possible explanation.

One thing for sure though that the Holy Spirit has no spirit but is the Spirit of God so there is no trinity in us.

[Author]

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