Everexisting?John 6:57

[The One]

John 6:57 “As the living Father sent me,AND I LIVE
BECAUSE OF THE FATHER,so he who eats me,he will also live because of me.”

Our Lord here is speaking of spiritual life,and the bread of life which is the Word of the Father which was given through Christ(John 8:26-28,John 12P:49-50,15:15,…).But Jesus makes a statement that clearly credits his own existance to the Father.

You may say that this is talking about his physical life,but,that is not the context in which Jesus is speaking.

Remember in John 4:24 where Jesus tells the Samarian
woman,”God is SPIRIT,those who worship HIM must worship in spirit and in truth”,This is the”form”of God(Phil.2:6).The
“living Father”has never HIMSELF existed in physical form,
only by His indwelling of Jesus(John 14:10),so Jesus in this passage is talking of his spiritual existance(John 1:1-3).

If Jesus gives credit to the Father for his life/existance…
then who are we to ascribe more.He,Jesus,exists because that was what the Father wanted!Remember,Jesus doesn't clarify which existance God is responsible for(physical or spiritual)just that he exists because of the Father,period!

But if Jesus had a beginning(which he says he does in this passage)then he has not always existed.Therefore he/Jesus
cannot be everlasting(except for that part of him that is the Father).

[Mr. Steve]

To The One;

It's amazing. That truth was always there in the scripture. Christ said as I live by the Father even so he that eateth me shall live by me. Christ lives by the Father. Christ received his life from his Father. Doesn't that make perfect sense. More than that, it is exactly what Christ said. I live by the Father. We live by the Father through Christ.
God bless you brother for sharing such a marvellous truth.

[The One]

Mr Steve,
The truth is evident if we search for it with an open heart….and open mind.And I am pleased you are a lover of the truth,and willing to accept it(so many of our brothers and sisters are not,unfortunately).Because knowledge of,and acceptance of that truth is the only way we can achieve home.God bless you!

[Not3in1]

Quote (The One @ Aug. 04 2007,11:15)

John 6:57 “As the living Father sent me,AND I LIVE BECAUSE OF THE FATHER,so he who eats me,he will also live because of me.”  Our Lord here is speaking of spiritual life,and the bread of life which is the Word of the Father which was given through Christ(John 8:26-28,John 12P:49-50,15:15,…).But Jesus makes a statement that clearly credits his own existance to the Father.  You may say that this is talking about his physical life,but,that is not the context in which Jesus is speaking.  Remember in John 4:24 where Jesus tells the Samarian woman,”God is SPIRIT,those who worship HIM must worship in spirit and in truth”,This is the”form”of God(Phil.2:6).The “living Father”has never HIMSELF existed in physical form, only by His indwelling of Jesus(John 14:10),so Jesus in this passage is talking of his spiritual existance(John 1:1-3).  If Jesus gives credit to the Father for his life/existance… then who are we to ascribe more.He,Jesus,exists because that was what the Father wanted!Remember,Jesus doesn't clarify which existance God is responsible for(physical or spiritual)just that he exists because of the Father,period!  But if Jesus had a beginning(which he says he does in this passage)then he has not always existed.Therefore he/Jesus cannot be everlasting(except for that part of him that is the Father).

Amen! Excellent scripture!

This topic is very closely related to the Preexistent thread.

Thanks, TO and welcome!
Mandy

[chipwhite]

Hello the one, the same chapter and later verses 60-63 (and now as paul harvey says the rest of the story.) on hearing it,many of his disciples said,”this is a hard teaching who can accept it?”Aware of what his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them,”Does this offend you?” What if you see the Son of Man –ascend to where he was before!– The Spirit gives life the flesh counts for nothing.The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. And the flesh and blood he is talking about is the same flesh and blood he gave at the last supper. Just like the temple he would rebuild was not the one that took 44 yrs. but the temple of the new covenant which when ushered in tore the viel from the old temple from top to bottom. In yashua's lifetime all the physical examples were being given so that we could understand that hidden mystery which God had destined for us before creation. Where was Jesus going to ascend to where he was before? And why establish the communion with the disciples and why talk about it as a pre cursor here?

[Mr. Steve]

To The One;

Thank you and God bless you.

Steven

[The One]

Chipwhite,
          I thank you for your response,and Jesus may very well have given this as a precursor to the Lord's Supper he established in the upper room.But,as you pointed out,in vs.63
Iesa(Jesus)says”It is the Spirit(of God)who gives life(vs.57);the flesh profits nothing;the WORDS I HAVE SPOKEN
TO YOU ARE SPIRIT AND ARE LIFE.”

 Jesus,in John 1:1-3,is called”the Word”and in John1:14 the scriptures say”And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us…”and according to passages like John8:58(?..before Abraham was born,I am),John 1:2″He(Jesus)was in the
beginning WITH God”,we see that Jesus did exist in heaven,with God,at the time of creation.So,when Christ
spoke,He was giving man the needed food for salvation:
that which his Father(and ours,John 20:17)gave him to
tell us(John4:34,Jn5:19,Jn7:16,Jn.8:26,Jn.12(49-50,…)

 Jesus(Yashua)at this time was speaking publically
in Capernaum at the synagogue(vs.59)and we must remember
that the manna that came from heaven was a revered
symbol to the Jewish people.So,when Christ said that the manna was only for physical life and that his words were food
meant for everlasting life,this analogy was(pardon the pun)hard to swallow..even for some of the disciples.

  But I do believe that this was Jesus' intention.Not to institute the Lord's Supper,but to stress the importance,the
vital nature,of what he was giving them(and us).

[Mr. Steve]

To The One;

Whose words did Jesus speak? Where did his doctrine come from? Whatever Christ was, was a result of being begotten by God. What did Christ say originated with him? So how is it that Christ is the Word in John 1:1? Where did Christ get his life? Was he not the begotten Son of God. Hence, his life came from God.

John also says something very interesting that has been ignored. John says he came unto his own and his own received him not. Jesus said thine they were and thou hast given them unto me. So if we put the two truths together we have what Paul said, God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself. Christ also said that the Father was in him. The word of reconciliation has been passed on to us as Christ's ambassadors. Christ passed on the Word of the Father. Now we pass on the Word but we are not the Word.

[942767]

To All:

The Word of God is eternal.

Quote

Mt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Quote

Hebrews1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

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John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Quote

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

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John 6:57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me

God Bless

[The One]

To Bro.Steven,
Dear brother,I am no expert,but,I will try to answer your questions in the order given to the best of my limited
ability.I thought maybe it was a quiz(ha).

Your first question-the Father(John 4:34,5:19,7:16,8:26,
12:49-50,…)

Your second-the Father(see above verses)

Your third-Christ gave all praise,worship,and distinction of diety to the Father(John 4:21-24=worship,John 20:17=Jesus recognized the Father as”HIS”God).But,Jesus also had/has the
Father dwelling in him(John 14:10)which makes him part of God.

As far as the fourth….
John 1:1-5 says”In the beginning was the Word,and the Word was with God,and the Word was God.”What does this verse say?Well the first five verses,in fact the first 18 verses are speaking of Christ as the Light and John as a witness to that Light.So,the context is about Jesus.We also know from previous verses that Jesus spoke the Father's word to the
world(God did not speak directly but through his”begotten”
or chosen,appointed,…Son as a vessel for His words and deeds).But let's get back to John 1.

“In the beginning”,this is talking of a starting point(something the Father has never had because the scriptures call him immortal-1Tim.6:16,everlasting-Gen21:33,Ps.90:2,eternal-1Tim.1:17)and the only starting point we know as humans is creation.We have no reference for events before that time,
so”the beginning”is creation.

“was the Word”This references two distinct things that we will look at now as we finish the verse.”..and the Word was with God,and the Word was God.2)He(Jesus)was in the beginning with God.”

Let us examine verse1″the Word was WITH God”.Whatever,
or should I say whoever the Word was..he was there with God in the beginning.This tells us that in some way the Word was seperate from God(this is the spiritual life of Jesus who
existed in the form{spiritual}of God-Phil.2:6)So,because of the context,and the other passages telling of Christ's pre-existance in heaven,that Jesus(the Word)was there WITH
God in the beginning.

Next,”and the Word was God”.Jesus was that part of the Word that would speak,teach,preach the words of the Father to us,but,the ACTUAL WORDS themselves were the Father's,or
WAS GOD.(I have all ready given verses stating this fact).
The doctrine Jesus provided came straight from the Father's own mouth,through Christ(as you stated).So,the Word was in fact God.

This passage gets misunderstood quite often because of some pre-concieved,pre-planted ideas that some hold,
rather than through unbiased study of the Word.

And yes,you are correct when you say we are fellow heirs like our brother Jesus(Rom.8:17)and ambassadors of Christ
to the world.The difference being;we are trying to get to heaven,while our Lord gave it up to help us get it.

I certainly enjoy our online conversations Steven,and I hope they continue.God Bless you my friend!

[david]

Quote

But if Jesus had a beginning(which he says he does in this passage)then he has not always existed.Therefore he/Jesus cannot be everlasting(except for that part of him that is the Father).

Humans are promised life everlasting.

Everlasting, for ever, immortality.

None of these things mean you can't have a beginning. They mean you can't have an end. Yes, Jehovah alone is king of eternity, without beginnng.

But Jesus does have immortality, it being granted to him by his father.

[The One]

You are correct David.But this verse says that without the Father,Jesus would not exist.

Trinitarians believe Jesus(and the HS)are co-equal,co-powerful to the Father,but,here we clearly see this is not true as Jesus needed the Father's will to even exist(physically or spiritually).

[Author]

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