Eschatology

Participant

Quote (selah @ Jan. 15 2010,18:59)

As a newbie here, it would help me to better understand the thinking of some of the members of this site as to the position they hold for their interpretation of prophecy.

The generally accepted positions of interpretation are as follows:

1, Full Preterist

2, Partial Preterist

3, Historicist

4, Futurist

5, Idealist

Like the Reformation saints and martyrs, I am an historicist.

We believe that the papal system (all popes) is the 666 False Prophet, and that great city, described in Revelation 17 and 18 … a city that sits on seven hills … a city that has reigned over kings of the earth, and is called, Mystery Babylon is … Vatican City.

I am advanced in age, but I believe that many here will be alive to witness God's total destruction of that great city … that it will be an every burning witness to the world of the power of prophecy and of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.

What would be your position?

Thank you.

selah

You might as well have ask; are you Democrat, Republican, or independent?
Why not come straight out and ask your question, or give us your opinion, on whatever subject that's on your mind?
Or for that matter, pick up on one of the many subjects already talked about on “Biblical Prophecy.”
Georg

January 29, 2010 at 5:33 am#174276

Proclaimer

Participant

Quote (selah @ Jan. 15 2010,18:59)

As a newbie here, it would help me to better understand the thinking of some of the members of this site as to the position they hold for their interpretation of prophecy.

The generally accepted positions of interpretation are as follows:

1, Full Preterist

2, Partial Preterist

3, Historicist

4, Futurist

5, Idealist

Like the Reformation saints and martyrs, I am an historicist.

What would be your position?

Thank you.

I think there is a lot of merit to the historicist view point, but I also wouldn't be surprised to see a NWO and world leader in the future.

Maybe there it will be a combination of the two. The antichrist being a political leader and the pope endorsing his rule as the false prophet.

Certainly Nero could have been the antichrist or an antichrist, but maybe one will rise like him?

January 29, 2010 at 7:12 am#174282

Participant

Georg … please read these posts more carefully.

You stated: “Are you (selah) suggesting the scroll was in the shape of a cross? Before you quote me saying I believe something, you should be sure that I do.”

Again, read the post carefully. Ed J suggested that Zech may have been referring to a cross … not me.

Be careful of who and what you are accusing.

I clearly stated that it was doubtful that you had considered the scroll in Zech to be a cross.

Perhaps I made a mistake. Had you already consider that possibility … I surely had not until Ed brought it up.

As for the mark of the beast, are you suggesting that it is not displayed on the right hand and forehead?

If so, where is it displayed?

Ed J … Is it possible that this is what Constantine saw in the sky?

January 29, 2010 at 10:25 am#174287

Tim Kraft

Participant

Quote (Elizabeth @ Jan. 28 2010,22:44)

I remember Jesus saying this;

Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

The generation in question is the one after Israel had become a nation again, 1948.

Psa 90:10 The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.

Whether you count 70 years or 80 years as a generation, they have not yet past.
What do you call proselytizing, quoting scriptures?
MY DOCTRINES of death and destruction? did I write the book of Revelation?
Like I said, ignorance won't save you, neither does blaming others, especially not by calling God a liar.

Georg

Ps, the gospel was preached for a witness; you should ask yourself what that means.

Georg: If I were talking to you about what Prisident Obama is doing and what is going on in the world today or some event that was to happen and I said, ” absoultely I say to you, this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled…” would you think I was talking thousands of years in the future or the current generation? Be honest. No you will pick a generation that fits your man made doctrine and say here is the generation Jesus was talking about.
Also be sure to notice that in v39 as in the days of Noah when the flood took away the evil out of the earth so shall it be with the Son of Man, the IT IS THE EVIL THAT WILL BE TAKEN out or that will destroy itself from the earth.
Right now we all should be the voice of God/Jesus going forth to mankind cleansing them with righteous judgment and burning the chaff away (old beliefs of sin) and preaching the Kingdom of God to ALL WHO WILL ACCEPT their cleansing.We all should be doing what Jesus did during his ministry. He gave us his fathers words and sent us to go into all the world. The good news is peace with God. Our sin is washed away. We have been cleansed by Jesus words from the father. It is a free gift of God for whosoever will believe the truth. God bless you with this truth. TK

January 29, 2010 at 1:38 pm#174300

Participant

Quote (selah @ Jan. 29 2010,18:12)

Georg … please read these posts more carefully.

You stated: “Are you (selah) suggesting the scroll was in the shape of a cross? Before you quote me saying I believe something, you should be sure that I do.”

Again, read the post carefully. Ed J suggested that Zech may have been referring to a cross … not me.

Be careful of who and what you are accusing.

I clearly stated that it was doubtful that you had considered the scroll in Zech to be a cross.

Perhaps I made a mistake. Had you already consider that possibility … I surely had not until Ed brought it up.

As for the mark of the beast, are you suggesting that it is not displayed on the right hand and forehead?

If so, where is it displayed?

Ed J … Is it possible that this is what Constantine saw in the sky?

Georg and I believe this mark or charagma to be Romanisms sign of the cross … and always displayed with the right hand, and always placed upon the forehead at baptism and on the adult followers of the beast on Ash Wednesdays.

This is what you said, and that's what I was referring too.

Georg

January 29, 2010 at 2:25 pm#174301

Participant

Quote (Tim Kraft @ Jan. 29 2010,21:25)

Quote (Elizabeth @ Jan. 28 2010,22:44)

I remember Jesus saying this;

Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

The generation in question is the one after Israel had become a nation again, 1948.

Psa 90:10 The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.

Georg

Ps, the gospel was preached for a witness; you should ask yourself what that means.

Do you understand why Jesus said “search” the scriptures?

The Babylonian invasion in 606 BC had three major consequences for the Jews.
One; they were to serve the Babylonians 70 years.
Dan 9:2 In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolation of Jerusalem.

Two; they lost their crown, independence.
Eze 21:26 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Remove the diadem, and take off the crown: this shall not be the same: exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high.

Three; it was the beginning of their seven times more punishment.
Lev 26:18 ¶ And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.

When Jesus said this to them,
Mat 23:37 ¶ O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

they were no longer ruling themselves, they also were serving their seven times punishment. And then Jesus said this to them.
Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

This was a reference to the time when their nation would cease to exist, 70 AD. The Jews were scattered all over the world, but Jesus knew that after their punishment they would return, and he hinted by symbolically using the fig tree for Israel, saying.
Mat 24:32 ¶ Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

That “fig tree” put forth leaves, became a nation again in 1948, and it is this generation Jesus was referring to when he said,

Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

The days of Noah is a comparison of the mindset of the people, that is; not caring, going about their business, not paying attention to anything the Bible has to say, or believing it; it will take people by the same surprise as it did then when it started to rain.
Man made doctrine you call it?! You can believe what ever you like, I said it before; I did not write the scriptures, so you don't offend me by not believing them.

Georg

January 29, 2010 at 7:57 pm#174356

Participant

Quote (selah @ Jan. 29 2010,18:12)

Georg … please read these posts more carefully.

You stated: “Are you (selah) suggesting the scroll was in the shape of a cross? Before you quote me saying I believe something, you should be sure that I do.”

Again, read the post carefully. Ed J suggested that Zech may have been referring to a cross … not me.

Be careful of who and what you are accusing.

I clearly stated that it was doubtful that you had considered the scroll in Zech to be a cross.

Perhaps I made a mistake. Had you already consider that possibility … I surely had not until Ed brought it up.

As for the mark of the beast, are you suggesting that it is not displayed on the right hand and forehead?

If so, where is it displayed?

Ed J … Is it possible that this is what Constantine saw in the sky?

Hi Selah,

I believe that 'the cross' in Zech.5:1-4 is worshiped as an 'idol'(refering to flesh worship of Jesus!).
Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served
the creature(Jesus) more than the Creator(YHVH), who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Psalm 29:10: The LORD sitteth upon the flood; yea, the LORD(YHVH) sitteth King for ever.
Psalm 10:16: The LORD(YHVH) is King for ever and ever: the heathen are perished out of his land.
John 6:15: When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force,
to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.
Heb:13:8: Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

“You” are the one making the direct association of 'it' with Catholicism.
I think the association of 'the cross' is a much broader issue!

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 29, 2010 at 10:09 pm#174382

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 29 2010,06:54)

Quote (selah @ Jan. 28 2010,18:41)

Thanks for the welcome Ed J

Georg and I believe this mark or charagma to be Romanisms sign of the cross … and always displayed with the right hand,
and always placed upon the forehead at baptism and on the adult followers of the beast on Ash Wednesdays.

Ed … you have not been pigeon holed yet!

Hi Selah,

Thanks, I'm not to fond of pigeon holes.

I believe the 'sign of the cross' is precisely what is mentioned in Zech.5:1-4
Have you or Georg ever considered the cross [†] to be this curse in Zech.5:1-4?

Zech.5:1-4 Then I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a flying roll.
And he said unto me, What seest thou? And I answered, I see a flying roll;
the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits.
(These dimensions match precisely the very dimensions of a cross [†])
Then said he unto me, This is the curse that goeth forth over the face of the whole earth:
for every one that stealeth shall be cut off as on this side according to it;
and every one that sweareth shall be cut off as on that side according to it.
I will bring it forth, saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief,
and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name: and it shall remain in the midst
of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof.

The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

How in the world do you make a cross out of a scroll?
Does a scroll ever look like a cross?
Be for real!
20×10 cubits are 30×15 feet, that is the exact measurements of a cross? for whom, Goliath?

Georg

January 30, 2010 at 12:09 am#174402

Participant

Quote (Elizabeth @ Jan. 30 2010,09:09)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 29 2010,06:54)

Quote (selah @ Jan. 28 2010,18:41)

Thanks for the welcome Ed J

Ed … you have not been pigeon holed yet!

Hi Selah,

Thanks, I'm not to fond of pigeon holes.

I believe the 'sign of the cross' is precisely what is mentioned in Zech.5:1-4
Have you or Georg ever considered the cross [†] to be this curse in Zech.5:1-4?

The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

How in the world do you make a cross out of a scroll?
Does a scroll ever look like a cross?
Be for real!
20×10 cubits are 30×15 feet, that is the exact measurements of a cross? for whom, Goliath?

Georg

Hi Georg,

I need to draw you some Spiritual comparative examples or “Shadow Pictures”.

Example (#1) Shadow picture: Moses sent twelve spies into
the promise land and two spies were sent in by Joshua.
Historical Truth: Their was a split in the twelve tribes of Israel into…
Ten Northern tribes and two tribes in the South Judah and Benjamin.

Example (#2) Shadow Picture: Joshua took twelve stones putting them in the Jordon river
before the Arc, then making an “Altar” of them same rocks once in the promise land.
Historical Truth: Jesus was baptized in the Jordon river, then chose twelve Disciples.

The Bible is FULL of many such “Shadow Pictures”.
Their connection is ONLY understood in the Spiritual!
Rom:8:6: For to be carnally minded is death;
but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Now I can do as you have done…
How are rocks people?
A spy is NOT a tribe!
What about the ten tribes?

Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD)YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 30, 2010 at 3:12 am#174418

Participant

Thank you T8,

That was the kind of input I was hoping to hear from the folks at this site. It is clear that you have knowledge of what is happening at other Christian discussion boards.

You had said:

“I think there is a lot of merit to the historicist view point, but I also wouldn't be surprised to see a NWO and world leader in the future.

Maybe there will be a combination of the two. The antichrist being a political leader and the pope endorsing his rule as the false prophet.

Certainly Nero could have been the antichrist or an antichrist, but maybe one will rise like him?”

T8, you are not alone in that understanding.

Even though I am not a preterist or partial preterist, I think their claim that Nero being the first beast has merit, as the time texts seem to support.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass …………… Rev 1:1

Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein:
for the time is at hand. Rev 1:3

Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter. Rev 1:19.

Yes T8, it is possible that the New World Order you mention is taking shape under the exceedingly great power of the EU as the Revived Roman Empire.

The six founding member states of this powerhouse held is first meeting at the Vatican.

I believe this occurred in the same year that Israel became a nation “in a day” … 1948.

This is seldom spoken about (even by prophecy buffs) but, in that Vatican City is a sovereign state, it's “head” holds seat number 66 in the EU parliament.

January 30, 2010 at 3:56 am#174421

Participant

Ed J … you stated:

“You” are the one making the direct association of “it” with Catholicism. I think the association of “the cross” is a much broader issue.”

Yes Ed … I am the one making the direct association of 'it' with Catholicism.

The “it” I was referring to is the OT passage you supplied … not that the scroll was a cross.

There is an “it” and there is an “it”.

Am I making myself clear as mud?

January 30, 2010 at 3:58 am#174422

Participant

Hello! I don't know to much of Prophecy, however I do know that at the end times, we will have Anti-Christ ruling. I agree that the Cross is a symbol of idolatry. We were once in the Catholic Church and every Good Friday we kissed that Cross. They kneel in front of it and pray. And Rev. 13 speaks of Anti-Christ with the number 666. The Popes mitre has the Vicar Filii Dei written on it. And if you take the letters of the title which represents Latin numbers and add them together it comes to 666. And if you consider the Chinese Calender only going to 2012 it all fits. When Israel became a Nation again it said that this generation will not pass away til all is fulfilled. Can it be that it will happen before 2012? I always say time will tell. Also God will keep His people from the hour of His wrath. So if we are with Him we have nothing to worry about!!!!!!
Irene

January 30, 2010 at 5:10 am#174441

terraricca

Participant

liza
is it chinese or Inca/aztec calender 2012

January 30, 2010 at 10:50 pm#174578

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 30 2010,11:09)

Quote (Elizabeth @ Jan. 30 2010,09:09)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 29 2010,06:54)

Quote (selah @ Jan. 28 2010,18:41)

Thanks for the welcome Ed J

Ed … you have not been pigeon holed yet!

Hi Selah,

Thanks, I'm not to fond of pigeon holes.

I believe the 'sign of the cross' is precisely what is mentioned in Zech.5:1-4
Have you or Georg ever considered the cross [†] to be this curse in Zech.5:1-4?

The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

How in the world do you make a cross out of a scroll?
Does a scroll ever look like a cross?
Be for real!
20×10 cubits are 30×15 feet , that is the exact measurements of a cross? for whom, Goliath?

Georg

Hi Georg,

I need to draw you some Spiritual comparative examples or “Shadow Pictures”.

Now I can do as you have done…
How are rocks people?
A spy is NOT a tribe!
What about the ten tribes?

Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD)YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi Georg,

Have you ever seen a 30×15 foot scroll fly through the air
or on the inside any building for that matter?
How does a scroll have a 'this side' and a 'that side'?

Can you not see the possibility that is symbolizes a “Cross”=74;
which represents “The Passover” in which “Jesus”=74 was executed in our behalf?
Gal:3:13: Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made
a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

“Theomatics” helps to illustrate the “Bible Truth” of Zech:5:1-4.
“Cross”(74)+”Jesus”(74)=”The Passover”=148 [74+74=148]

Here is the “Spiritual” meaning of Zech.5:1-4…

The Crucifix (a stock of a tree) now hangs in many religious institutions.
Isa:45:20: Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together,
ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up
the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save. (The JW's know this “Truth”)
Jer:2:27: Saying to a stock('a stock' is an essence 'a crucifix), Thou art my father; and to a stone,
Thou hast brought me forth(evolution): for they have turned their back unto me, and not their face:
but in the time of their trouble they will say, Arise, and save us.
Isa:44:19-20…shall I make the residue thereof an abomination?
shall I fall down to the stock of a tree? …he cannot deliver his soul, nor say,
Is there not a lie in my right hand? Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie,
and worshipped and served the creature(Jesus) more than the Creator(YHVH), who is blessed for ever. Amen.

This should help you to see the “Truth” of my words! FOR REAL!
“The Savior”=117 is “GOD The Father”=117, and their is NO Other! (Isaiah 43:11)

Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD)YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 31, 2010 at 1:38 am#174598

Participant

Georg … on your recent post to me, you quoted the (my) opening post in this thread and said:

“You might as well have ask; are you Democrat, Republican, or Independent? Why not come straight out and ask your question, or give us your opinion, on whatever subject that's on you mind?”

Are you serious? You ask why don't I come straight out and ask my question !!!

Is there a communication gap here? My question then and now, is crystal clear … it was and is … what is your position?

You then say, why not give us your opinion on whatever subject that's on your mind?

Georg … the subject that is on my mind is clearly stated in the original post. It is about the normally accepted positions of interpretation of Bible prophecy. I thought it was common knowledge among prophecy buffs as to what those 4 or 5 are, and that is why I posted the question in the PROPHECY section.

Do you have a problem with that question?

You also said … why not give us your opinion on whatever subject that's on your mind?

Georg … my opinion on the subject was clearly stated … I said that I am like the Reformation saints and martyrs … I am an historicist.

I am not ashamed to say that … as were the following:

Matthew Henry
Albert Barnes
Charles Spurgeon
The Geneva Bible Translators
Adam Clark Commentary
Jamison, Brown and Fausett
John Foxe … of Foxe's Book of Martyrs
John Knox
Gratton Guinness
E.B.Elliott
John Wesley
John Calvin
Uriah Smith
Philip Mauro
Sir Isaac Newton

January 31, 2010 at 3:33 pm#174693

Participant

selah

If you're looking for opinions, you have come to the right side, because that's all you get here.
Now let me ask you a question, do opinions really count?

Georg

January 31, 2010 at 3:49 pm#174696

Participant

The scroll Zechariah saw was a vision 30×15 feet, you said

(These dimensions match precisely the very dimensions of a cross [†])

Were those the dimension of the cross Jesus was nailed too? I doubt it.
You call it “Theomatics”, I think you're closer to “Theomania”.

Georg

January 31, 2010 at 9:34 pm#174759

Participant

Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 01 2010,02:49)

The scroll Zechariah saw was a vision 30×15 feet, you said

(These dimensions match precisely the very dimensions of a cross [†])

Were those the dimension of the cross Jesus was nailed too? I doubt it.
You call it “Theomatics”, I think you're closer to “Theomania”.

Georg

Hi Georg,

Here is the quote…

“I believe the 'sign of the cross' is precisely what is mentioned in Zech.5:1-4.”

Seems you changed the words around a little; yes?

Ed J

January 31, 2010 at 9:48 pm#174763

NickHassan

Participant

Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 01 2010,02:33)

selah

If you're looking for opinions, you have come to the right side, because that's all you get here.
Now let me ask you a question, do opinions really count?

Georg

Hi Georg,
Did you really say this?

But all your work in prophecy cannot be proven so remains your opinion.

February 1, 2010 at 2:32 pm#174905