Ephesians 6

[Jodi Lee]

Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; 18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints–

Paul is in prison, his adversary or Satan, is the King who is in a high position and thus dwells in a heavenly realm. Refer to Old Testament language and history where Kings are referred often as dwelling in heaven.

Why does Paul say we do not wrestle against flesh and blood? I believe that people automatically see this scripture under man's traditions from what they have been told rather than using Paul's s own teachings to try and understand what Paul is saying. Paul speaks a lot about putting to death the body, that to be alive in Christ is to be dead to sin and the source of sin, of which Paul so eloquently tells us, is when we follow our flesh,  or in other words our carnal nature.

Romans 7:4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another–to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.  6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Ro 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,* who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.  2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you.

Romans 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

Paul says this just after talking about a physical body and a spiritual body. We cannot inherit the kingdom under flesh and blood with a carnal mind, we must be spiritually minded.

If Christ is in us Paul teaches that our bodies are dead, we no longer wrestle against flesh and blood. Christ has died for our sins, so even though we cannot live a perfect life, sin and our carnal nature is to no longer rules over us, the deeds of the body have been put to death.

Ga 5:24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Now here is IMO a clincher scripture from Paul

2 Corinthians 10:1 Now I, Paul, myself am pleading with you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ–who in presence am lowly among you, but being absent am bold toward you. 2 But I beg you that when I am present I may not be bold with that confidence by which I intend to be bold against some, who think of us as if we walked according to the flesh. 3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, 6 and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled.

Paul stated that even though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to it, for as Galatians says we have crucified the flesh. Our weapons are not carnal they are Spiritual they are in our mind, we use our mind to strengthen us and to keep us in the faith.

Context tells us that Paul in Ephesians 6 is warning the early Christians of upcoming persecution, of whom he has already been a victim of.  Paul's brethren will need the whole armor of God to stand against the war that the Christians will face. This war is a mental one, will they remain confident in the Spirit, or will they falter under persecution??

Ephesians 2:1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

Walking according to the course of the world is walking according to the ruler of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience. What is this spirit?? We are directly told what it is, it is the spirit in man of his carnal nature, the ignorant fool following after his instincts giving into the lust of the flesh.

By NATURE we are children of wrath, not by some invisible rebel spirits. Jesus said woe to the world for the offense, woe to man for by whom the offenses come.  The ruler or prince of this world is the carnal driving force within everyman. Kings in their high places feed off of this spirit. This spirit dwells in the air for it is nothing but empty and unfruitful. Man's spirit NEEDS God's Spirit.  

1 Corinthians 9:24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. 25 And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. 26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. 27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

1 Corinthians 14:9 So likewise you, unless you utter by the tongue words easy to understand, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air.

Paul in both these examples uses air to represent emptiness.  

Eph 5:6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.

Col 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.

Man can of his own self do nothing, he is full of emptiness, his mind according to his carnal nature is full of d
eceit, this is why it is said that we are “born children of wrath”, and “the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth”. Man needs the Spirit of God in him.

Man should not walk according to the course of the world, according to the ruler of this world which is man's carnal nature, because this spirit's power is of the air, meaning it is empty and worthless.  

So with all this being said let's get back to

Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might.  11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

Devil means slanderer, the King in his heavenly place is falsely persecuting Christians. Christians must be mentally strong putting on the whole armor of God to be able to stand remaining faithful against their oppressor!

13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; 18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints–

To have the Spirit of God is to be in a mental state, with God's understanding and truth working in you. The Christians needed to prepare themselves not by means of protecting their flesh and blood, they are going to do war in their minds according to their oppressor the wicked one, theking and his army, who will CHALLENGE their faith.

John gives a revelation of warning as Paul did…

Re 2:10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

The devil spoken of in Revelation is obviously the King. He is a slanderer because he follows after the dark spirit in man, the spirit that does anything to feed it's own flesh. It is the spirit of the air, holding nothing but emptiness and deceit. The King is following after his carnal nature and is a brute beast persecuting innocent people, putting some in jail and hanging others on a cross.

The TIME that Paul wrote Ephesians he was in prison put there by the principalities, by the power of the king according to that kings heavenly place, or high position. That King was a slanderer and an adversary unto the Christians, thus making him the RULER of a dark age. The king gathered, through his powerful authority, a host of wicked men to carry out his persecution.

The Christians were being warned and asked to put on the whole armor of God so that they could remain in their faith, even unto death.

This is historical fact. What history or the bible cannot confirm, is that Paul was warning the people against invisible supernatural beings of possessing their minds trying to undermine their new faith in Christ. That is a futile doctrine of man.

I find it truly unfortunate that people look at Ephesians 6 and all they can see is the deception that' s been handed down to them, believing that there exists some dark world we cannot see that's in the sky full of rebel spirits ready to curse and manipulate people. So unfortunate that people feed into ignorance and superstition, rather than forming biblical understanding from the bible itself!

[942767]

Hi Jodi:

You say: that “we were born chilren of wrath”. Where can I find that scripture?

Thanks,
Love in Christ,
Marty

[meerkat]

Quote (942767 @ June 09 2009,13:47)

Hi Jodi: You say: that “we were born chilren of wrath”.  Where can I find that scripture? Thanks, Love in Christ, Marty

Ephesians 2:3

Ephesians 2:1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

Walking according to the course of the world is walking according to the ruler of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience. What is this spirit?? We are directly told what it is, it is the spirit in man of his carnal nature, the ignorant fool following after his instincts giving into the lust of the flesh.

By NATURE we are children of wrath, not by some invisible rebel spirits.

[942767]

Quote (meerkat @ June 09 2009,12:06)

Quote (942767 @ June 09 2009,13:47) Hi Jodi: You say: that “we were born chilren of wrath”.  Where can I find that scripture? Thanks, Love in Christ, Marty Ephesians 2:3 Ephesians 2:1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. Walking according to the course of the world is walking according to the ruler of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience. What is this spirit?? We are directly told what it is, it is the spirit in man of his carnal nature, the ignorant fool following after his instincts giving into the lust of the flesh. By NATURE we are children of wrath, not by some invisible rebel spirits.

That scripture does not say that “we were born the children of wrath”. It states that we by “nature are the chidren of wrath”.

My understanding is that we developed this nature as sinners in the world not that we were born with that nature.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Jodi,
How is your book going?
I wonder if it will be as popular as the bible.
Anyone who denies Satan will always find a great following.

[meerkat]

Quote (942767 @ June 09 2009,14:18)

Quote (meerkat @ June 09 2009,12:06) Quote (942767 @ June 09 2009,13:47) Hi Jodi: You say: that “we were born chilren of wrath”.  Where can I find that scripture? Thanks, Love in Christ, Marty Ephesians 2:3 Ephesians 2:1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. Walking according to the course of the world is walking according to the ruler of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience. What is this spirit?? We are directly told what it is, it is the spirit in man of his carnal nature, the ignorant fool following after his instincts giving into the lust of the flesh. By NATURE we are children of wrath, not by some invisible rebel spirits. That scripture does not say that “we were born the children of wrath”.  It states that we by “nature are the chidren of wrath”.   My understanding is that we developed this nature as sinners in the world not that we were born with that nature. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty

What by nature means is G5449
φύσις
phusis
foo'-sis
From G5453; growth (by germination or expansion), that is, (by implication) natural production (lineal descent); by extension a genus or sort; figuratively native disposition, constitution or usage: – ([man-]) kind, nature ([-al]).

It is not something that we surprisingly develop   – it is what we are   – human which includes a carnal nature

[942767]

Quote (meerkat @ June 09 2009,12:44)

Quote (942767 @ June 09 2009,14:18) Quote (meerkat @ June 09 2009,12:06) Quote (942767 @ June 09 2009,13:47) Hi Jodi: You say: that “we were born chilren of wrath”.  Where can I find that scripture? Thanks, Love in Christ, Marty Ephesians 2:3 Ephesians 2:1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. Walking according to the course of the world is walking according to the ruler of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience. What is this spirit?? We are directly told what it is, it is the spirit in man of his carnal nature, the ignorant fool following after his instincts giving into the lust of the flesh. By NATURE we are children of wrath, not by some invisible rebel spirits. That scripture does not say that “we were born the children of wrath”.  It states that we by “nature are the chidren of wrath”.   My understanding is that we developed this nature as sinners in the world not that we were born with that nature. Love in Christ, Marty Marty What by nature means is G5449 φύσις phusis foo'-sis From G5453; growth (by germination or expansion), that is, (by implication) natural production (lineal descent); by extension a genus or sort; figuratively native disposition, constitution or usage: – ([man-]) kind, nature ([-al]). It is not something that we surprisingly develop   – it is what we are   – human which includes a carnal nature

Hi Meerkat:

In reading Ephesians 2:2-3 in states:

Quote

Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind

Can you tell me that as an infant you walked according to the course of this world? Or, did you yield to temptation along the way?

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Hi Meerkat:

I copied the following dictionary definitions from Strong's Concordance:
1) nature

a) the nature of things, the force, laws, order of nature

1) as opposed to what is monstrous, abnormal, perverse

2) as opposed what has been produced by the art of man: the natural branches, i.e. branches by the operation of nature

b) birth, physical origin

c) a mode of feeling and acting which by long habit has become nature

d) the sum of innate properties and powers by which one person differs from others, distinctive native peculiarities, natural characteristics: the natural strength, ferocity, and intractability of beasts

I am inclined to believe that the definition given in  is more in line with what the Apostle Paul is saying.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Lightenup]

Jodi,
I'm interested to know who you think was Job's “satan?”

[Jodi Lee]

Quote (Lightenup @ June 09 2009,16:34)

Jodi, I'm interested to know who you think was Job's “satan?”

You should go to the Beelzebub thread, I have given my understanding there in length.

In short, I believe the adversary in the book of Job, who roamed to and fro on the earth, was as the other adversaries spoken of in the bible who roamed to and fro, God's loyal messengers, who acted upon earth as God's eyes.

[NickHassan]

Hi Jodi,
Angels?
Adversarial angels?

The ones destined for the fire?

[Jodi Lee]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 09 2009,12:42)

Hi, Jodi, How is your book going? I wonder if it will be as popular as the bible. Anyone who denies Satan will always find a great following.

Once again Nick you are slandering.

I think it would be helpful if you explained your definition of adversary. I have never said that the bible does not contain the Hebrew word adversary. What I deny is the doctrine that defines the adversary as a rebel spirit being with powers like God.

Would you care Nick to show where in scripture you find the adversary defined as a rebel spirit with God like powers?

[Jodi Lee]

Quote (942767 @ June 09 2009,13:20)

Hi Meerkat: I copied the following dictionary definitions from Strong's Concordance: 1) nature a) the nature of things, the force, laws, order of nature 1) as opposed to what is monstrous, abnormal, perverse 2) as opposed what has been produced by the art of man: the natural branches, i.e. branches by the operation of nature b) birth, physical origin c) a mode of feeling and acting which by long habit has become nature d) the sum of innate properties and powers by which one person differs from others, distinctive native peculiarities, natural characteristics: the natural strength, ferocity, and intractability of beasts I am inclined to believe that the definition given in © is more in line with what the Apostle Paul is saying. Love in Christ, Marty

Good Morning Marty,

Ro 9:8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.

Eph 2:3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

In the beginning Adam and Eve's nature was one of ignorance and eagerness, they desired to be wise. Without God's truth man is left to his own observations and his imagination. Man's nature without God is left to make assumptions, those assumptions become superstitions and deceptions. Man without God is on a sure path of deceit.

All children are born with the natural instincts to serve the flesh, however they must be taught about God and how to serve Him. No one has to be taught to fulfill the desires of the flesh, that is something they are born with.

Hebrews 2:14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

Ro 6:6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.

Ro 6:19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

We are all born with weak flesh.

Ro 8:3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,

Our flesh is weak because it has to serve itself in order to survive.

We are born like Adam and Eve,  with ignorant minds and imaginations that can create distortion and deception.  We are also born because of their punishment, with weak flesh, flesh that must serve itself in order to survive.

The nature that we are born with can do nothing good of itself, it needs God's character working in it, in order to become righteous.

I have said this a few times before. I see our flesh as a slanderer because we are born with it telling us that we need to serve it in order to live. The truth be told however, is that we need God and God alone in order to have life!  

That is my understanding from the scriptures anyway.

Love to you too in Christ,      Jodi

[NickHassan]

Hi Jodi ,
Poor thing.
Your own flesh slanders you?
How can you stand if you are divided against yourself?

[942767]

Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 10 2009,05:19)

Quote (942767 @ June 09 2009,13:20) Hi Meerkat: I copied the following dictionary definitions from Strong's Concordance: 1) nature a) the nature of things, the force, laws, order of nature 1) as opposed to what is monstrous, abnormal, perverse 2) as opposed what has been produced by the art of man: the natural branches, i.e. branches by the operation of nature b) birth, physical origin c) a mode of feeling and acting which by long habit has become nature d) the sum of innate properties and powers by which one person differs from others, distinctive native peculiarities, natural characteristics: the natural strength, ferocity, and intractability of beasts I am inclined to believe that the definition given in © is more in line with what the Apostle Paul is saying. Love in Christ, Marty Good Morning Marty, Ro 9:8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. Eph 2:3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. In the beginning Adam and Eve's nature was one of ignorance and eagerness, they desired to be wise. Without God's truth man is left to his own observations and his imagination. Man's nature without God is left to make assumptions, those assumptions become superstitions and deceptions. Man without God is on a sure path of deceit. All children are born with the natural instincts to serve the flesh, however they must be taught about God and how to serve Him. No one has to be taught to fulfill the desires of the flesh, that is something they are born with. Hebrews 2:14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. Ro 6:6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. Ro 6:19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness. We are all born with weak flesh. Ro 8:3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, Our flesh is weak because it has to serve itself in order to survive. We are born like Adam and Eve,  with ignorant minds and imaginations that can create distortion and deception.  We are also born because of their punishment, with weak flesh, flesh that must serve itself in order to survive. The nature that we are born with can do nothing good of itself, it needs God's character working in it, in order to become righteous. I have said this a few times before. I see our flesh as a slanderer because we are born with it telling us that we need to serve it in order to live. The truth be told however, is that we need God and God alone in order to have life!   That is my understanding from the scriptures anyway. Love to you too in Christ,      Jodi

Hi Jodi:

Thanks for giving me your understanding on this. We are all searching for the truth.

My understanding is that Adam and Eve were in innocence before their sin. They were naked before God.

I also believe that all infants born into the world are in innocence. They pick up a lot of bad habits from TV.

Love in Christ,
Marty

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