Emmanuel

[Pastry]

Before Adam was created the Angels were already in Heaven, and that is when Lucifer was rebelling against God and wanted to sit on Gods Throne….These next Scriptures talk about when Lucifer enter Heaven and fought with Micheal and His Angels…. Hate to bust your bubbles, but they did exist…
Also where in Scripture sdoes it say that Adam was the Son of Morning??

Rev 12:7 ¶ And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

The Devil was in Paradise as a Serpent and it was Eve, that ate the Apple…..you know that story, right???

Peace Irene

[terraricca]

Charles

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Pierre, Quote before you answer to your own question; please tell me what did Christ teaches to his disciples that was not covered in the scriptures at his time (so called O.T) SPIRITUAL LOVE Whoever loves spiritually ,he will love in truth. Peace and love in Jesus Christ Charles

spiritual (mind and heart) was always a requirement even under the law ;first commandment ;Mt 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mt 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mt 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mt 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

it is because of their wickedness that they have not followed Gods law,no difference in Christianity today,

spirituality is a general word ;but LOVING GOD and have knowledge of him and then walk his pad to obtain his promise and keep faith at work so that your love for him spills out to others this is the way to everlasting live,

now the Law only promised a good and peaceful long live,the resurrection and judgement day,

so in time when Christ came the everlasting live with incorruptibility was on hand and for some even heavenly call (144K)

for all others (great crowed)everlasting live on earth.

this also included the gift of not seeing dead and judgement,

those to me are the only differences between the before and after Christ coming,

Pierre

[terraricca]

Chales

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Since you are stating that there are no periods,then God created Evil!!!!, God was the source of Lucifer's rebel!!!! So Lucifer's interruptions was designed by God,since it is part of creation and also, we are according to God's design that we suffer, die, that there's so much filth, murdering,corruption,and so on and on!!!! Satan is well pleased with you,because you are practically saying, that we are living under Satan's rules,and Jesus never came,and never existed, never died, and never achieved eternal life,and salvation!!!!for us all!!! Am I right to believe so through your statement that there are no periods? Where did eternal life came from?, where did salvation came from??? How on earth you want me to believe that Jesus said in Matthew 8:22: Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead. and in the same time we are all alive in Jesus Christ now!!! It is definitely a complete different period, since we were dead,and now we are alive,and also since it wasn't God that wanted us dead like the other old testament period. So therefore something occurred,which suspended God's creation, and deviated God's process of creation, and God the Father had only one solution to get all those souls back to Him. That was the sacrificing of the spiritual person of His Son through the power of the Holy Spirit to start recreation from the opposite direction of evil in order to make them righteous, and give them eternal life, because since that rebel they were always dead. I hope you know the difference between eternal life and salvation,because there's a huge difference!! In fact we are in the period of eternal life right from conception,where before Jesus,in the old testament,all humans although they were born they were dead!!! and never live again,even if they were righteous. I will stop now and wait for your comments. Peace and love in Jesus Christ Charles

if you call a period a event then you right ,

when Adam and Eve sinned the law at the time was if you eat from the tree you will die that day,or the soul that sins will die ,same thing,
sin is only breaking the law of God ,not of men,men who like to be like gods like to be in charge of there laws,

the fact that God does not created robots but made them all in his love with freewill so that they can chose what they wanted to do,so it is not that God is responsible for the wickedness of his created beings but every individual being bears is own responsibility before God his creator,

what God did and could have not done and just bring all rebels ether angels or men and destroy them end of story,

but because of his great LOVE he did not chose that way and instead he worked a plan to save us all if possible by providing a way out ,and that is trough his son sacrifice ,but again we have to follow the requirement of that free offer ,there is even a grace attached to it so that the past can be written totally off ,and so provide a clean start,

so that everlasting live is possible to those who produce the fruits there of, and so follow Christ teachings and his apostles written words,

have faith in the promise of Christ gospel and live a life worthy to obtain everlasting life,

the only way to do this is to chose to do Gods will not like Adam who did his own way and pay the heavy price with his life,

their is one thing for sure ,this opportunity of the grace will not be offered for ever, their is a limited time condition attached to it,

no one is dead until God destroys his soul,

but as you say Christ mention Mt 8:21 And another of the disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
Mt 8:22 But Jesus saith unto him, Follow me; and leave the dead to bury their own dead.

what the disciple ask Jesus is to go bury his father and do all the ceremonial rituals attached to it ,

this was not a practice included in the new message of Christ gospel,because Jesus was preaching everlasting life,

so i believe that Christ message should be looked at it in a way that the disciple implicated in the comment understood it ,
if you are disciple of Christ you are living and if you do not you are dead even dough you are alive ,

but this does not mean that all of the people who lived before Christ have been dead, because their faith included a resurrection ,at the end.

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In fact we are in the period of eternal life right from conception,where before Jesus,in the old testament,all humans although they were born they were dead!!! and never live again,even if they were righteous.

I do not believe that scriptures teach that we are receiving eternal life from conception,it is still a earning grace not a gift without condition,

so we have to chose to serve and love God with all our hearts and soul and mind.

ALL PEOPLE THAT LIVED BEFORE CHRIST OR DID NOT WHERE CALLED TO BE FOR THE FIRST RESURRECTION WILL BE IN THE SECOND RESURRECTION ,

so i disagree with your last statement.

Pierre

[csaliba]

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 15 2011,06:24)

Chales Quote Since you are stating that there are no periods,then God created Evil!!!!, God was the source of Lucifer's rebel!!!! So Lucifer's interruptions was designed by God,since it is part of creation and also, we are according to God's design  that we suffer, die, that there's so much filth, murdering,corruption,and so on and on!!!! Satan is well pleased with you,because you are practically saying, that we are living under Satan's rules,and Jesus never came,and never existed, never died, and never achieved eternal life,and salvation!!!!for us all!!! Am I right to believe so through your statement that there are no periods? Where did eternal life came from?, where did salvation came from??? How on earth you want me to believe that Jesus said in Matthew 8:22: Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead. and in the same time we are all alive in Jesus Christ now!!! It is definitely a complete different period, since we were dead,and now we are alive,and also since it wasn't God that wanted us dead like the other old testament period. So therefore something occurred,which suspended God's creation, and deviated God's process of creation, and God the Father had only one solution to get all those souls back to Him. That was the sacrificing of the spiritual person of His Son through the power of the Holy Spirit to start recreation from the opposite direction of evil in order to make them righteous, and give them eternal life, because since that rebel they were always dead. I hope you know the difference between eternal life and salvation,because there's a huge difference!! In fact we are in the period of eternal life right from conception,where before Jesus,in the old testament,all humans although they were born they were dead!!! and never live again,even if they were righteous. I will stop now and wait for your comments. Peace and love in Jesus Christ Charles if you call a period a event then you right , when Adam and Eve sinned the law at the time was if you eat from the tree you will die that day,or the soul that sins will die ,same thing, sin is only breaking the law of God ,not of men,men who like to be like gods like to be in charge of there laws, the fact that God does not created robots but made them all in his love with freewill so that they can chose what they wanted to do,so it is not that God is responsible for the wickedness of his created beings but every individual being bears is own responsibility before God his creator, what God did and could have not done and just bring all rebels ether angels or men and destroy them end of story, but because of his great LOVE he did not chose that way and instead he worked a plan to save us all if possible by providing a way out ,and that is trough his son sacrifice ,but again we have to follow the requirement of that free offer ,there is even a grace attached to it so that the past can be written totally off ,and so provide a clean start, so that everlasting live is possible to those who produce the fruits there of, and so follow Christ teachings and his apostles written words, have faith in the promise of Christ gospel and live a life worthy to obtain everlasting life, the only way to do this is to chose to do Gods will not like Adam who did his own way and pay the heavy price with his life, their is one thing for sure ,this opportunity of the grace will not be offered for ever, their is a  limited time condition attached to it, no one is dead until God destroys his soul, but as you say Christ mention Mt 8:21 And another of the disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. Mt 8:22 But Jesus saith unto him, Follow me; and leave the dead to bury their own dead. what the disciple ask Jesus is to go bury his father and do all the ceremonial rituals attached to it , this was not a practice included in the new message of Christ gospel,because Jesus was preaching everlasting life, so i believe that Christ message should be looked at it in a way that the disciple implicated in the comment understood it ,  if you are disciple of Christ you are living and if you do not you are dead even dough you are alive , but this does not mean that all of the people who lived before Christ have been dead, because their faith included a resurrection ,at the end. Quote In fact we are in the period of eternal life right from conception,where before Jesus,in the old testament,all humans although they were born they were dead!!! and never live again,even if they were righteous. I do not believe that scriptures teach that we are receiving eternal life from conception,it is still a earning grace not a gift without condition, so we have to chose to serve and love God with all our hearts and soul and mind. ALL PEOPLE THAT LIVED BEFORE CHRIST OR DID NOT WHERE CALLED TO BE FOR THE FIRST RESURRECTION WILL BE IN THE SECOND RESURRECTION , so i disagree with your last statement. Pierre

Pierre,

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so that everlasting live is possible to those who produce the fruits there of, and so follow Christ teachings and his apostles written words

No, everlasting life doesn't depend on us, everlasting life came through Jesus Christ Death on the Cross by eliminating Satan spirit from all our creation.

Through Adam sin all humans,I repeat all humans lost eternal life and became the property of Satan in the flesh,because the soul was dead,and no matter how they lived,they went to hell,with the exception of the select,which went to limbo, also a place in hell but without suffering.simply waiting for the saviour to go to paradise.

Now this is important to understand,it is even for me to explain.

Through Adam sin, all humans lost eternal life.

This means that spiritually, humans were not considered part of the original first ever creation of the angels!!! For the simple reason that there was no spiritual consistency of God,because He was rejected through Adam, and they died spiritually.  

Therefore lost the eternal life which was originated from God Himself through the creation of angels, there was no continuation,it has stopped, and only Jesus had to be Himself the bridge which re-established us one with God the Father as Adam was.

So humans acquired back eternal life, and the soul was born again in Jesus spirit,and therefore  became again part of the original creation and this from conception,because Satan lost his authority over humans both on birth, and on death, where before,although they were being born as humans in fact they were dead in their souls in Satan spirit.

Although now,we are living the eternal life which we received through Jesus Death,we still have to live according to His Gospel to achieve salvation.

Through eterna
l life,as soon as we die we will be faced with Jesus to be Judged spiritually,and if we live in His Gospel,which is spiritual teaching in Jesus, we will be saved, if not we will go to eternal punishment.

All those who do not believe in Jesus, they have not eternal life because they are already condemned in Satan.

Again only the select were the exceptions,simply by being born through the power of the Holy Spirit using barren woman,or old aged woman.
This God did to proof that He is in Command,and can change all things in nature which belonged to Satan.

I repeat we are living the eternal life from conception because we are being born alive through the elimination of Satan from all our creation,in body, soul, and unofficially in spirit,but we become officially alive in the spirit,as soon as we are baptised in the name of the Father ,Son ,and Holy Spirit.

Then when we become adults through our confirmation by accepting Jesus Spirit to own us.

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

Charles

[terraricca]

Charles

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Now this is important to understand,it is even for me to explain. Through Adam sin, all humans lost eternal life.

I have to disagree with you on this ,because you try to imply that even if Adam did not sin we would be in the same situation ,this is only a possibility that could have happen,

you see if Adam would have not be disobedient to God order, then would that mean that all his offspring did not have to obey to Gods order not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil ?

if as offspring we would have to be obedient to God order ,then to obtain the grace of God what comes through Christ, we have to accept to obey his will ,what is to produce the fruits of our faith in him,

there is nothing free ,God gives access to eternal live but it is not forced on us ,Christ has said the one who ears the message and act on it is the one that will live,so if you do not act on the knowledge you have heard then you are living a dead live,this means without hope.

this is why Christ said that the words he spook are words of live ,this is only true if the person that ears it act on it or respond to the message and produce the fruits there of,

this is why Paul and Peter and John recall all Christians to keep the good works in a constant progress,so that we maybe fund worthy of God grace and obtain the promise,

like Paul says this is a race but were all can win providing he make it to the finish line,

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I repeat we are living the eternal life from conception because we are being born alive through the elimination of Satan from all our creation,in body, soul, and unofficially in spirit,but we become officially alive in the spirit,as soon as we are baptised in the name of the Father ,Son ,and Holy Spirit.

I have to rephrase what you say ;we are living in a time where God has open his love to us through the sacrifice of his son Christ for us to be able to chose live over dead,
live eternal without judgement if we obey his word, dead and judgement if we do not obey,

there is no one act that will save any of us and specially not a five minute work out in water,

this is pure religion doctrine but not according to the scriptures.

when we take the commitment in our hearts and our mind based on true knowledge of God and his son and pledge to become his servant ,that moment you become bond to God baptized or not ,

baptism is for others to see ,but God sees the heart and read the mind of men,
the truth of God is found in his word,

our starting point is when we commit ourselves and finishes when we die or when Christ returns witch ever comes first '

Pierre

[ftk]

Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 15 2011,00:40)

Before Adam was created the Angels were already in Heaven, and that is when Lucifer was rebelling against God and wanted to sit on Gods Throne….These next Scriptures talk about when Lucifer enter Heaven and  fought with Micheal and His Angels…. Hate to bust your bubbles, but they did exist… Also where in Scripture sdoes it say that Adam was the Son  of Morning?? Rev 12:7 ¶ And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,   Rev 12:8   And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.         Rev 12:9   And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. The Devil was in Paradise as a Serpent and it was Eve, that ate the Apple…..you know that story, right??? Peace Irene

Irene:

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Also where in Scripture does it say that Adam was the Son of Morning??

In Isaiah 14:12

“Lucifer” is described as “son of the morning”!

Lucifer was Adam, son of the morning. Perfect in every way until there was found in him iniquity/evil.
Eve talked Adam into partaking of evil because if they did they would rise above God. Adam bought that lie from Eve who bought that lie from the “serpent” (a hissing, whisper voice) in her heart. So from perfection, Adam fell. Lucifer may be just a name for Adam.

Rev.2:28 Says, ….I will give you the morning star….

Jesus was the bright morning star! Rev.2:16

Lucifer is the Hebrew word “heylel”. That is the root of the word of Halleluiah…heylel-you-yahw…..bright shining! I don't think that is the devil.

IMO, just food for thought. TK

[csaliba]

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 15 2011,10:54)

Charles Quote Now this is important to understand,it is even for me to explain. Through Adam sin, all humans lost eternal life. I have to disagree with you on this ,because you try to imply that even if Adam did not sin we would be in the same situation ,this is only a possibility that could have happen, you see if Adam would have not be disobedient to God order, then would that mean that all his offspring did not have to obey to Gods order not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil ? if as offspring we would have to be obedient to God order ,then to obtain the grace of God what comes through Christ, we have to accept to obey his will ,what is to produce the fruits of our faith in him, there is nothing free ,God gives access to eternal live but it is not forced on us ,Christ has said the one who ears the message and act on it is the one that will live,so if you do not act on the knowledge you have heard then you are living a dead live,this means without hope. this is why Christ said that the words he spook are words of live ,this is only true if the person that ears it act on it or respond to the message and produce the fruits there of, this is why Paul and Peter and John recall all Christians to keep the good works in a constant progress,so that we maybe fund worthy of God grace and obtain the promise, like Paul says this is a race but were all can win providing he make it to the finish line, Quote I repeat we are living the eternal life from conception because we are being born alive through the elimination of Satan from all our creation,in body, soul, and unofficially in spirit,but we become officially alive in the spirit,as soon as we are baptised in the name of the Father ,Son ,and Holy Spirit. I have to rephrase what you say ;we are living in a time where God has open his love to us through the sacrifice of his son Christ for us to be able to chose live over dead, live eternal without judgement if we obey his word, dead and judgement if we do not obey, there is no one act that will save any of us and specially not a five minute work out in water, this is pure religion doctrine but not according to the scriptures. when we take the commitment in our hearts and our mind based on true knowledge of God and his son and pledge to become his servant ,that moment you become bond to God baptized or not , baptism is for others to see ,but God sees the heart and read the mind of men, the truth of God is found in his word, our starting point is when we commit ourselves and finishes when we die or when Christ returns witch ever comes first ' Pierre

Pierre,

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have to disagree with you on this ,because you try to imply that even if Adam did not sin we would be in the same situation ,this is only a possibility that could have happen, you see if Adam would have not be disobedient to God order, then would that mean that all his offspring did not have to obey to Gods order not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil ? if as offspring we would have to be obedient to God order ,then to obtain the grace of God what comes through Christ, we have to accept to obey his will ,what is to produce the fruits of our faith in him,

If Adam did not sin, all creation, I repeat, all would have been clean throughout, and also it would have been  a complete different story altogether.

This for the simple reason that we, as off springs  of Adam,  wouldn’t have the original sin through Satan, we  would have lived in paradise within this planet from that time, how it was originally through God.

Since  Lucifer rebelled, he was punished, and still is, in this earth and through that punishment, God the Father, through His Son  with the power of the Holy Spirit, recreated us in order to start the road to holiness through Adam as his off springs.

Since Adam sinned  he both went down a lower realm, and  lost eternal life spiritually, through the death in Satan, therefore also his off springs.

Satan is a dead spirit. This means that Satan up to now, is still locked within this earth, and has not achieved a being to abide within.

Jesus destroyed him on the cross exactly when he was under the impression that he was about to succeed!!!  

In the world to come, paradise, Humans would be subject to sin still, as Jesus confirmed, in Matthew 12:32

Matthew 12: 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.  

but if we don’t sin, we would remain alive all the time till we achieve total salvation.

My point is eternal life!

Almighty God is eternal; this means that God has no beginning, and no end.
So God has eternal life. Eternal life in God therefore means a life which has no beginning and no end.

Now God wanted to have a kingdom, and this kingdom must consist of creatures which along the process of achievement, none of them lose eternal life consistency.

This is most vital for God because this kingdom would be His manifestation, and must maintain the chain, or lineage of eternal life in Him.

Therefore if any of His creatures experience death, it would automatically lose eternal life consistency and never would be able to be part of God’s kingdom.

How then God would make sure that during all these millions, and millions of years, never in any period of creation, there won’t be any occasion, that either prevents God from progressing, or anyone from His creatures, completely obliterate the process in any way, with the consequences, that He would have to destroy all creation, and start all over again from scratch??

1 John 5: 11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

How beautiful are these words from John. He said God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

So the answer to my question is exactly here!!!

I will wait for your comments.

Peace and Love in Jesus Christ

Charles

[terraricca]

Charles

you did not answer my question; if Adam would have not be disobedient to God order, then would that mean that all his offspring did not have to obey to Gods order not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil ?

Pierre

[csaliba]

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 17 2011,16:25)

Charles you did not answer my question; if Adam would have not be disobedient to God order, then would that mean that all his offspring did not have to obey to Gods order not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil ? Pierre

Pierre,

Quote

you did not answer my question; if Adam would have not be disobedient to God order, then would that mean that all his offspring did not have to obey to Gods order not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil ?

Sometimes you surprise me !!

All I am going to do is to paste what I posted so you can read it again<here it is:

If Adam did not sin, all creation, I repeat, all would have been clean throughout, and also it would have been  a complete different story altogether.

This for the simple reason that we, as off springs  of Adam,  wouldn’t have the original sin through Satan, we  would have lived in paradise within this planet from that time, how it was originally through God.

I told you that if Adam did not sin we, as off springs  of Adam,  wouldn’t have the original sin through Satan, we  would have lived in paradise within this planet from that time, how it was originally through God.  

So again  it was within Adam's responsibility to decide how he and his off springs  would live on Earth.It was all dependable through him,as the first born of all the LIVING SOULS,NOT HUMANS LIKE WE ARE!!!

This was only temporary as a test to establish the justified road to holiness.

Adam had  a probation period,like the Israelite in the desert to establish themselves before entering HOLY LAND.

Jesus (the second Adam)repeated this himself when He was sent purposely by the Holy Spirit ,since Jesus was a spiritual person,to live entirely for 40 days,through the power of the Holy Spirit,and also to be tested by Satan,like he did to Adam.

This it was vital for both Jesus and Satan himself in order to establish if Jesus is The Son of God before start His HOLY MISSION.

Most logically, Adam had 40,days as well,but definitely only for a short period,to establish the justified way according to Adam.

which was Lucifer's soul,  as the one who sinned and brought all those angels with him to earth to be punished.

I also stated,that In the world to come, paradise, Humans would be subject to sin still, as Jesus confirmed, in Matthew 12:32
soul
So even if Adam did not sin and he remained a living soul as also his off springs,this never prevented those creatures from sinning, but they would have died,but if they remained under God rules,they would have never died.

The bible states in Genesis 6:2 that the sons of God seeing the daughters of men, that they were fair, took themselves wives of all which they chose.

This happened simply because the angels saw the women for the first time ever,and wished  to go with them,
and for the angels,who were already established as angels, and to wish so was a sin since they were spirit beings.

So the freedom will always remain since they were within the road to holiness, but it would have been more difficult to sin, since they would have experienced the beautiful total environment of paradise,and also Satan would have ended his mission,for the simple reason that since Adam was Lucifer's soul he would have been rejected by only body which was his by right.

This world is like as it is only through Adam's sin and Satan's justified principles according to God, The reason for Jesus to come and destroys him in order to replace him.

Matthew 12: 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

[csaliba]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Aug. 14 2011,22:15)

Charles, Yes God created Evil and all corruption since than has been permissable and is part of His plan since the begginig. God doesnt make mistakes

SimplyForgiven,

You are wrong,God didn't creat Evil.
God created His spiritual creatures,balance within two concepts,and allow them to establish themselves the relation with Him within a certain probation period.

One concept was that they knew that they were created by a being superior then them,and also that they have to be faithful to Him, serve Him, and also that they are subject and  depend on Him.Which means that whatever they do it was through His power.

The other concept was that they were completely free,and could reject God any time.

In fact Lucifer,since God through Him created his realm,and also our first world,realized how powerful he was,and through this  pride, refused to be subject to the future divine man being and his mother.

He protested with God and became his direct opponent.

Since then originated the evil concept,for the simple reason,that God punished Lucifer and his angels by locking them in nature in order for God to recreate our world using His Son's spirit, with the power of the Holy Spirit,through their punishment in order to persuade them to return to Him.

Through this process humans were created, and God through His son furnished humans with souls.

After millions and millions of years, God gave His spirit to the most mature devilish beast like creature (Lucifer's dead soul) and completely transformed him into the very first ever living soul to become Adam.

Adam through Satan's corruption by Eve, his representative,rejected God's law and Put all humanity and the world in a very miserable,and evil state, and only the Son of God Jesus Christ was capable to redeem us,through His death on the cross 2000 years ago.

But Lucifer's and his angels' evil concept remained within our
minds and only Jesus and His unfathomable fountain of mercy could save us from hell fire.

Peace and love in Jesus christ

[terraricca]

Charles

Quote

Sometimes you surprise me !! All I am going to do is to paste what I posted so you can read it again If Adam did not sin, all creation, I repeat, all would have been clean throughout, and also it would have been a complete different story altogether. This for the simple reason that we, as off springs of Adam, wouldn’t have the original sin through Satan, we would have lived in paradise within this planet from that time, how it was originally through God. I told you that if Adam did not sin we, as off springs of Adam, wouldn’t have the original sin through Satan, we would have lived in paradise within this planet from that time, how it was originally through God.

you still did not answer my question;

if Adam would have not be disobedient to God order, then would that mean that all his offspring did not have to obey to Gods order not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil ?

are implying that the tree of knowledge was only there for Adam and Eve ? and that they would not have procreate untill the so called test of yours is completed ?

Pierre

[csaliba]

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 18 2011,05:25)

Charles Quote Sometimes you surprise me !! All I am going to do is to paste what I posted so you can read it again If Adam did not sin, all creation, I repeat, all would have been clean throughout, and also it would have been  a complete different story altogether. This for the simple reason that we, as off springs  of Adam,  wouldn’t have the original sin through Satan, we  would have lived in paradise within this planet from that time, how it was originally through God. I told you that if Adam did not sin we, as off springs  of Adam,  wouldn’t have the original sin through Satan, we  would have lived in paradise within this planet from that time, how it was originally through God.   you still did not answer my question; if Adam would have not be disobedient to God order, then would that mean that all his offspring did not have to obey to Gods order not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil ? are implying that the tree of knowledge was only there for Adam and Eve ? and that they would not have procreate untill the so called test of yours is completed ? Pierre

Pierre,

The tree was there only temporary for Adam till the probation period ends.

As soon as the probation period ends.The whole world would have become good and clean,and only the tree of life would have remained.

As soon as Adam opted for the tree of knowledge of good and evil,the tree of life finished.

The tree of life means that only the vegetable food would have become the food for those particular semi spiritual creatures.

Through consuming that kind of food they would have become more purified, not only that ,but all environment,would have been self sustained by God, in order to receive the right nourishment for that particular kind of spiritual flesh.

SCRIPTURE STATED THAT IT WAS A GARDEN OF PLEASURE,but spiritual pleasure not carnal pleasure like we have on this filthy miserable world.

[csaliba]

Quote (csaliba @ Aug. 18 2011,07:56)

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 18 2011,05:25) Charles Quote Sometimes you surprise me !! All I am going to do is to paste what I posted so you can read it again If Adam did not sin, all creation, I repeat, all would have been clean throughout, and also it would have been  a complete different story altogether. This for the simple reason that we, as off springs  of Adam,  wouldn’t have the original sin through Satan, we  would have lived in paradise within this planet from that time, how it was originally through God. I told you that if Adam did not sin we, as off springs  of Adam,  wouldn’t have the original sin through Satan, we  would have lived in paradise within this planet from that time, how it was originally through God.   you still did not answer my question; if Adam would have not be disobedient to God order, then would that mean that all his offspring did not have to obey to Gods order not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil ? are implying that the tree of knowledge was only there for Adam and Eve ? and that they would not have procreate untill the so called test of yours is completed ? Pierre Pierre, The tree was there  only temporary  for Adam till the probation period ends. As soon as the probation period ends.The whole world would have become good and clean,and only the tree of life would have remained. As soon as Adam opted for the tree of knowledge of good and evil,the tree of life finished. The tree of life means that only the vegetable food would have become the  food for those particular semi spiritual creatures. Through consuming that kind of food they would have become more purified, not only that ,but all environment,would have been self sustained by God, in order to receive the right nourishment for that particular kind of spiritual flesh. SCRIPTURE STATED THAT IT WAS A GARDEN OF PLEASURE,but spiritual pleasure not carnal pleasure like we have on this filthy miserable world.

Pierre,

Yes, procreation could not have happened within 40 days .

Logically procreation could only happen accordingly after the test.

Satan was extremely keen to act,and God logically knew this and logically also it was predestined to happen,since Lucifer did all what he did, he was the most genius.

Creation  was created good according to all those principles agreed before hand.

Satan was not a spirit who couldn't deal with God,since he was the one responsible of earth, and had one third under his power and had a plan within his hearth.

Scriptures says that he was on the mountain of God.

His aim was to become like the most high,which means that he wanted to become man god of evil and he would be able to overthrow God in heaven.

God is so meek that he sent His Son to overthrow him in his world under his rules and principles. That's what the world Good is for in all Genesis 1

This refers that it's all good to start the race for one of us to become man. Either you or Me(God)

God had to re create and start our world through Satan from the opposite side of His realm,which was the extreme of filth and evil, millions and millions of years ago,and only 6000 years ago God created the first living soul in Adam (Lucifer's) since he was the cause of all this.

That's why Jesus in all His speeches was all the time saying the Son of God and the son of man.

This was a sort of inducing Satan and telling him I AM BOTH GOD AND MAN IN YOUR OWN WORLD UNDER YOUR RULES AND PRINCIPLES, but Satan through the Pharisee, was blind and called him a devil, a magician, and all sorts.

He even used Peter, when Jesus again was telling Satan that he will be crucified, and Satan through Peter said NO, and Jesus answered him and told to get off, obvious because If he knew that it was the Son of God he wouldn't have insisted to be killed.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 18 2011,05:25)

Charles Quote Sometimes you surprise me !! All I am going to do is to paste what I posted so you can read it again If Adam did not sin, all creation, I repeat, all would have been clean throughout, and also it would have been  a complete different story altogether. This for the simple reason that we, as off springs  of Adam,  wouldn’t have the original sin through Satan, we  would have lived in paradise within this planet from that time, how it was originally through God. I told you that if Adam did not sin we, as off springs  of Adam,  wouldn’t have the original sin through Satan, we  would have lived in paradise within this planet from that time, how it was originally through God.   you still did not answer my question; if Adam would have not be disobedient to God order, then would that mean that all his offspring did not have to obey to Gods order not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil ? are implying that the tree of knowledge was only there for Adam and Eve ? and that they would not have procreate untill the so called test of yours is completed ? Pierre

Perhaps the tree would remain to test all men because it was the agent of free will in choosing God or not.

However, if some person had partaken of the fruit, it would have lead to death for that person but the person could theoretically have offspring and pass on the curse to some human, leaving two kinds of humans. In the case of Adam, his sin was passed onto the whole race of man.

It is also entirely possible of course that it was a test for Adam and Eve only as the representatives of humanity, but terraricca has a good point.
What about Adams offspring? And how were other humans to be tested with choosing God if that was the only choice? Or was the plan to test Adam only to then pass on the result to all adam (man)?

[Pastry]

Quote (ftk @ Aug. 15 2011,21:04)

Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 15 2011,00:40) Before Adam was created the Angels were already in Heaven, and that is when Lucifer was rebelling against God and wanted to sit on Gods Throne….These next Scriptures talk about when Lucifer enter Heaven and  fought with Micheal and His Angels…. Hate to bust your bubbles, but they did exist… Also where in Scripture sdoes it say that Adam was the Son  of Morning?? Rev 12:7 ¶ And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,   Rev 12:8   And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.         Rev 12:9   And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. The Devil was in Paradise as a Serpent and it was Eve, that ate the Apple…..you know that story, right??? Peace Irene Irene: Quote Also where in Scripture does it say that Adam was the Son  of Morning??                                                  In  Isaiah 14:12 “Lucifer” is described as “son of the morning”! Lucifer was Adam, son of the morning. Perfect in every way until there was found in him iniquity/evil. Eve talked Adam into partaking of evil because if they did they would rise above God. Adam bought that lie from Eve who bought that lie from the “serpent” (a hissing, whisper voice) in her heart. So from perfection, Adam fell. Lucifer may be just a name for Adam. Rev.2:28 Says, ….I will give you the morning star…. Jesus was the bright morning star! Rev.2:16 Lucifer is the Hebrew word “heylel”. That is the root of the word  of Halleluiah…heylel-you-yahw…..bright shining! I don't think that is the devil.   IMO, just food for thought. TK

No Lucifer was not Adam. Adam never stood in front of the Almighty God , did He???  Or was in Heaven….

Isa 14:12 ¶ How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!  

Isa 14:13   For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:  

Luk 10:18   And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.  

Peace Irene

[csaliba]

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 18 2011,09:35)

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 18 2011,05:25) Charles Quote Sometimes you surprise me !! All I am going to do is to paste what I posted so you can read it again If Adam did not sin, all creation, I repeat, all would have been clean throughout, and also it would have been  a complete different story altogether. This for the simple reason that we, as off springs  of Adam,  wouldn’t have the original sin through Satan, we  would have lived in paradise within this planet from that time, how it was originally through God. I told you that if Adam did not sin we, as off springs  of Adam,  wouldn’t have the original sin through Satan, we  would have lived in paradise within this planet from that time, how it was originally through God.   you still did not answer my question; if Adam would have not be disobedient to God order, then would that mean that all his offspring did not have to obey to Gods order not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil ? are implying that the tree of knowledge was only there for Adam and Eve ? and that they would not have procreate untill the so called test of yours is completed ? Pierre Perhaps the tree would remain to test all men because it was the agent of free will in choosing God or not. However, if some person had partaken of the fruit, it would have lead to death for that person but the person could theoretically have offspring and pass on the curse to some human, leaving two kinds of humans. In the case of Adam, his sin was passed onto the whole race of man. It is also entirely possible of course that it was a test for Adam and Eve only as the representatives of humanity, but terraricca has a good point. What about Adams offspring? And how were other humans to be tested with choosing God if that was the only choice? Or was the plan to test Adam only to then pass on the result to all adam (man)?

T8,

Yes, when you reflect , you will realize that Adam was the person responsible for the test only.  

He himself would pass and educate his off springs of Good and Evil, the same thing we are doing ourselves .

The trouble with us is we are still not reached the realm of Adam if he didn't sin.

We are still not in the realm of holiness,where Adam was created holy already and he couldn't die unless he commit sin.

Please reflect because it is a very positive reflection regarding what would have been if Adam did not sin.

Satan and his demons would have been eliminated completely, and it would have been totally on us ,and since we would have  inherited righteousness from birth, although we would have been free, it would have been more clear to us to remain righteous.

We as we are, are always in favour of sin than not.

Jesus himself stated we know what is right but we love darkness, because our origin was darkness.

Jesus said you are from beneath, I am from above.

Keep on posting on this I am feeling light coming on heaven net through this tread.

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

Charles

[csaliba]

Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 18 2011,09:46)

Quote (ftk @ Aug. 15 2011,21:04) Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 15 2011,00:40) Before Adam was created the Angels were already in Heaven, and that is when Lucifer was rebelling against God and wanted to sit on Gods Throne….These next Scriptures talk about when Lucifer enter Heaven and  fought with Micheal and His Angels…. Hate to bust your bubbles, but they did exist… Also where in Scripture sdoes it say that Adam was the Son  of Morning?? Rev 12:7 ¶ And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,   Rev 12:8   And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.         Rev 12:9   And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. The Devil was in Paradise as a Serpent and it was Eve, that ate the Apple…..you know that story, right??? Peace Irene Irene: Quote Also where in Scripture does it say that Adam was the Son  of Morning??                                                  In  Isaiah 14:12 “Lucifer” is described as “son of the morning”! Lucifer was Adam, son of the morning. Perfect in every way until there was found in him iniquity/evil. Eve talked Adam into partaking of evil because if they did they would rise above God. Adam bought that lie from Eve who bought that lie from the “serpent” (a hissing, whisper voice) in her heart. So from perfection, Adam fell. Lucifer may be just a name for Adam. Rev.2:28 Says, ….I will give you the morning star…. Jesus was the bright morning star! Rev.2:16 Lucifer is the Hebrew word “heylel”. That is the root of the word  of Halleluiah…heylel-you-yahw…..bright shining! I don't think that is the devil.   IMO, just food for thought. TK No Lucifer was not Adam. Adam never stood in front of the Almighty God , did He???  Or was in Heaven…. Isa 14:12 ¶ How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!   Isa 14:13   For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:   Luk 10:18   And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.   Peace Irene

Irene,

Lucifer was a master piece of God.

He was on the mountain of God.

He was responsible from earth and its degraded angels.

But he protested with God and wanted to be the founder of evil creatures,as a challenge to God to make Him start His kingdom from the opposite direction.From the bottom of filth up.

God sent him to earth to do so ,but to do so he was separated from his soul and became Satan.

When time was good for God He picked the most mature devilish creature and transformed him into Adam and became a living soul.

But the soul was Lucifer's since he was the person to cause all this, but Satan remained in the centre of the earth up to now.

Still hoping to acquire a being to abide within,but definitely not through woman,most probably through cloning.

[SimplyForgiven]

Charles,
The bible never states that Satan was responsible for Earth or the Angels degraded state.
The bible never claims he protested or to be the founder of Evil.
No where in the bible does it say that God picked the most mature of devilsih creature and transformed him into Adam

Where is your scripture for these claims?

God Created Evil:
Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

[terraricca]

Quote (csaliba @ Aug. 19 2011,00:01)

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 18 2011,09:35) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 18 2011,05:25) Charles Quote Sometimes you surprise me !! All I am going to do is to paste what I posted so you can read it again If Adam did not sin, all creation, I repeat, all would have been clean throughout, and also it would have been  a complete different story altogether. This for the simple reason that we, as off springs  of Adam,  wouldn’t have the original sin through Satan, we  would have lived in paradise within this planet from that time, how it was originally through God. I told you that if Adam did not sin we, as off springs  of Adam,  wouldn’t have the original sin through Satan, we  would have lived in paradise within this planet from that time, how it was originally through God.   you still did not answer my question; if Adam would have not be disobedient to God order, then would that mean that all his offspring did not have to obey to Gods order not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil ? are implying that the tree of knowledge was only there for Adam and Eve ? and that they would not have procreate untill the so called test of yours is completed ? Pierre Perhaps the tree would remain to test all men because it was the agent of free will in choosing God or not. However, if some person had partaken of the fruit, it would have lead to death for that person but the person could theoretically have offspring and pass on the curse to some human, leaving two kinds of humans. In the case of Adam, his sin was passed onto the whole race of man. It is also entirely possible of course that it was a test for Adam and Eve only as the representatives of humanity, but terraricca has a good point. What about Adams offspring? And how were other humans to be tested with choosing God if that was the only choice? Or was the plan to test Adam only to then pass on the result to all adam (man)? T8, Yes, when you reflect , you will realize that Adam was the person responsible for the test only.   He himself would pass and educate his off springs of Good and Evil, the same thing we are doing ourselves . The trouble with us is we are still not reached the realm of Adam if he didn't sin. We are still not in the realm of holiness,where Adam was created holy already and he couldn't die unless he commit sin. Please reflect because it is a very positive reflection regarding what would have been if Adam did not sin. Satan and his demons would have been eliminated completely, and it would have been totally on us ,and since we would have  inherited righteousness from birth, although we would have been free, it would have been more clear to us to remain righteous. We as we are, are always in favour of sin than not. Jesus himself stated we know what is right but we love darkness, because our origin was darkness. Jesus said you are from beneath, I am from above. Keep on posting on this I am feeling light coming on heaven net through this tread. Peace and love in Jesus Christ Charles

Charles

the great law is ;the soul who sins is the one who dies;

Adam is the one that directly received the order from God but Satan went to Eve who received the order info from Adam,

how as you say would this test be able to protect the offspring of Adam from doing sin against God ,if Adam did not sin ?

born with a free will as we are and have to chose all things in our lives ,you see if we look in reverse Christ came to show us the return way to God and look how many do not accept the way that God has set to follow to obtain his grace ,and yet we have the experience of all the wickedness around us,and many are not moved by the way to God,

and so you think that if Adam did not sin his offspring will not have sin ? and yet would have understand all implication involved in there freewill ,Eve was the one that was deceived and so could any of Adam offspring

corruption come in many different colors but with always the same results,dead.

it as been a long way to hell on earth and it is a hard way back to God and his holiness but it as to be our choice from the heart and it will take all our strength to do it ,and only then and still with the help of God we can achieve it,

this is why only a few will make it ,

Pierre

[terraricca]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Aug. 19 2011,00:52)

Charles, The bible never states that Satan was responsible for Earth or the Angels degraded state. The bible never claims he protested or to be the founder of Evil. No where in the bible does it say that God picked the most mature of devilsih creature and transformed him into Adam Where is your scripture for these claims? God Created Evil: Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

sf

Eze 28:11 The word of the LORD came to me:
Eze 28:12 “Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says:
“ ‘You were the model of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
Eze 28:13 You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
every precious stone adorned you:
ruby, topaz and emerald,
chrysolite, onyx and jasper,
sapphire, turquoise and beryl.
Your settings and mountings were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.
Eze 28:14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.
Eze 28:15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.
Eze 28:16 Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence,
and you sinned.
So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, O guardian cherub,
from among the fiery stones.
Eze 28:17 Your heart became proud
on account of your beauty,
and you corrupted your wisdom
because of your splendor.
So I threw you to the earth;
I made a spectacle of you before kings.
Eze 28:18 By your many sins and dishonest trade
you have desecrated your sanctuaries.
So I made a fire come out from you,
and it consumed you,
and I reduced you to ashes on the ground
in the sight of all who were watching.
Eze 28:19 All the nations who knew you
are appalled at you;
you have come to a horrible end
and will be no more.’ ”

Pierre

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