- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote You are right about “elohim” referring to gods. Notice the only time it is “singular” is when it is referring to The Supreme Being, God, and that is what this Thread is all about. That is why I put my comment in how I thought that Elohim is the NAME of this Supreme Being to distinguish Himself from all other “gods”
–DBF
David, some people use name to mean “title” but I tend to think of “name” as a personal name. “God” is not a name, just like Father, Lord, etc are not names. “Jehovah” is a name.
Are there any scriptures that specifically say that “God” is his name? There are such ones for Jehovah.
Quote Hello David, Yes I do mean a physical, material body. YHVH is seen in Genesis 3 walking, talking, killing an animal and then covering Adam and Eve, receiving tithes and sacrifices (Priestly duties) from Cain and Abel, etc. He also is a King and sits on a physical throne.
I feel I could spend vast amounts of time disagreeing with you on these things, but that is perhaps another thread. “God is a spirit” the Bible says. In some scriptures it appears as though God was actually seen, but in others it's made clear that it was a vision, or angelic representatives….
I tend to believe that when the Bible says that no man may see God and live, it is because it we were to actually see him with our eyes, it would be like staring into the sun from a meter away.
Quote v.27 repeated “image” twice and then said that “male and female” were God's image. I don't want to debate the word “image” and what that means…..I only know the product of “image” = male and female And I know that because GOD SAID SO in verse 26. I assure you it does not say that “'male and female' were God's image,” as though to say: 'God's image is male and female.'
What it says is that man was created in God's image. (I don't think we should actually ignore what the word “image” means, either. I think we should check many dictionaries.)
tselem (image)
form (1), image (5), images (6), likenesses (3), phantom (1).From an unused root meaning to shade; a phantom, i.e. (figuratively) illusion, resemblance; hence, a representative figure, especially an idol — image, vain shew.
I think that when they were made in his resemblance, or image, or likeness, it really can't be speaking of physical image, for God is invisible, a spirit.
Secondly, we are not in God's image. (Does God have to pee? No. Does he need a belly button? All those kinds of questions. Does he need an arm to do his work?)
No, I think when it says “image” (likeness, resemblence, etc) we were made to resemble not God's physical qualities, but his spiritual ones.CONTEXT helps.
24 And God went on to say: “Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the earth according to its kind.” And it came to be so. 25 And God proceeded to make the wild beast of the earth according to its kind and the domestic animal according to its kind and every moving animal of the ground according to its kind. And God got to see that [it was] good.
26 And God went on to say: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness,Is the only difference between the animals and us appearance? I see vast differences. When I look at these verses, I see a list of animals and then something different, humans, who are made in God's image. I take this to mean we resemble God in some ways other than physical appearance, just as we differ from the animals in more ways than appearance. The animals all differ from each other in appearance, and differ from us. What makes us really different isn't physical appearance–it's that we were created in God's image.
Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 03 2010,04:24) Ed, YHVH = 63 what does 63 mean? What “truth” is in 63?
The Professor
Hi David,Numbers don't mean anything in and of themselves, only the
association to something carries meaning; consider a phone number.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (davidbfun @ Aug. 03 2010,04:24) Ed, I try to keep it light by showing how arbitrarily you come up with numbers…and then try to attach importance to the numbers.
The Professor
Hi David,Others here on this forum consider it arbitrarily for you to try to make god into part female.
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (david @ Aug. 03 2010,04:45) Because if “of” sometimes has to be added when translating it into Greek, then you have no argument. If “of” already exists in Hebrew, and it isn't in that Genesis Scripture, then we have an anomoly.
Hi david,Neither The Hebrew Masoretic Texts nor the Greek language have a word for “OF”!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (david @ Aug. 03 2010,05:08) Quote v.27 repeated “image” twice and then said that “male and female” were God's image. I don't want to debate the word “image” and what that means…..I only know the product of “image” = male and female And I know that because GOD SAID SO in verse 26. I assure you it does not say that “'male and female' were God's image,” as though to say: 'God's image is male and female.'
What it says is that man was created in God's image. (I don't think we should actually ignore what the word “image” means, either. I think we should check many dictionaries.)
tselem (image)
form (1), image (5), images (6), likenesses (3), phantom (1).From an unused root meaning to shade; a phantom, i.e. (figuratively) illusion, resemblance; hence, a representative figure, especially an idol — image, vain shew.
I think that when they were made in his resemblance, or image, or likeness, it really can't be speaking of physical image, for God is invisible, a spirit.
Secondly, we are not in God's image. (Does God have to pee? No. Does he need a belly button? All those kinds of questions. Does he need an arm to do his work?)
No, I think when it says “image” (likeness, resemblence, etc) we were made to resemble not God's physical qualities, but his spiritual ones.CONTEXT helps.
24 And God went on to say: “Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the earth according to its kind.” And it came to be so. 25 And God proceeded to make the wild beast of the earth according to its kind and the domestic animal according to its kind and every moving animal of the ground according to its kind. And God got to see that [it was] good.
26 And God went on to say: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness,Is the only difference between the animals and us appearance? I see vast differences. When I look at these verses, I see a list of animals and then something different, humans, who are made in God's image. I take this to mean we resemble God in some ways other than physical appearance, just as we differ from the animals in more ways than appearance. The animals all differ from each other in appearance, and differ from us. What makes us really different isn't physical appearance–it's that we were created in God's image.
Hi david,This is addressed to DBF …So much for 'your' ideas not being attacked.
I hope I made the proper distinction for you david(JW)!
Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 03 2010,04:24) Ed, I try to keep it light by showing how arbitrarily you come up with numbers…and then try to attach importance to the numbers.
The Professor
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Edit)))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Hi David,Others here on this forum consider it arbitrarily for you to try to make God into part female.
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (david @ Aug. 03 2010,04:49) Hello David, “God is a spirit” the Bible says.
Hi david,Would you also say: “God is Holy”?
If so, then connect them! (Click Here)Man says that! There is NO indefinite article in either Hebrew or Greek!
It should read: “God is Spirit”, and because “is” is also added;
It's really “God Spirit”=117 same as 117=יהוה האלהיםYou are learning so much today, david! No “OF”, No “A” or “AN”!
Also, all italicized words (in AKJV Bible) are added words;
being absent from the original texts themselves!Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Aug. 03 2010,14:05) Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 03 2010,04:24) Ed, I try to keep it light by showing how arbitrarily you come up with numbers…and then try to attach importance to the numbers.
The Professor
Hi David,Others here on this forum consider it arbitrarily for you to try to make god into part female.
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Ed,People are so good to cite word meanings and that is not arbitrary, but according to you, when I do, that is arbitrary?
Gen 1:2 Spirit of God moved…..
Spirit = noun, feminine
God (El) = noun, masculineHow much clearer could it be?
Did I choose to create the Hebrew language?Don't know why you don't like what is written: It is truth.
The Professor
Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 03 2010,14:15) Quote (david @ Aug. 03 2010,05:08) Quote v.27 repeated “image” twice and then said that “male and female” were God's image. I don't want to debate the word “image” and what that means…..I only know the product of “image” = male and female And I know that because GOD SAID SO in verse 26. I assure you it does not say that “'male and female' were God's image,” as though to say: 'God's image is male and female.'
What it says is that man was created in God's image. (I don't think we should actually ignore what the word “image” means, either. I think we should check many dictionaries.)
tselem (image)
form (1), image (5), images (6), likenesses (3), phantom (1).From an unused root meaning to shade; a phantom, i.e. (figuratively) illusion, resemblance; hence, a representative figure, especially an idol — image, vain shew.
I think that when they were made in his resemblance, or image, or likeness, it really can't be speaking of physical image, for God is invisible, a spirit.
Secondly, we are not in God's image. (Does God have to pee? No. Does he need a belly button? All those kinds of questions. Does he need an arm to do his work?)
No, I think when it says “image” (likeness, resemblence, etc) we were made to resemble not God's physical qualities, but his spiritual ones.CONTEXT helps.
24 And God went on to say: “Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the earth according to its kind.” And it came to be so. 25 And God proceeded to make the wild beast of the earth according to its kind and the domestic animal according to its kind and every moving animal of the ground according to its kind. And God got to see that [it was] good.
26 And God went on to say: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness,Is the only difference between the animals and us appearance? I see vast differences. When I look at these verses, I see a list of animals and then something different, humans, who are made in God's image. I take this to mean we resemble God in some ways other than physical appearance, just as we differ from the animals in more ways than appearance. The animals all differ from each other in appearance, and differ from us. What makes us really different isn't physical appearance–it's that we were created in God's image.
Hi david,This is addressed to DBF …So much for 'your' ideas not being attacked.
I hope I made the proper distinction for you david(JW)!
Hello David,Thank you for your assurance that the Bible does not say this:
Gen 1:27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
I'd rather believe the Bible than have your assurances. I really believe it can mean what it says.
Regardless of how you try to define “image” you will end up with the same end result “male and female” essences belonging to God (Elohim).
Your opinions/assurances can't really be “proof” of what you want to deny….. what is written.
Your “I think” and questions about God doesn't change what is written.
The thread is about Elohim (not animals) and God's two essences.
I even restated step by step any points you'd like to rebutt…please stay on topic, ok?
Mike, would you say David's “research” is valid?
The Professor
Quote (david @ Aug. 03 2010,12:49) Quote You are right about “elohim” referring to gods. Notice the only time it is “singular” is when it is referring to The Supreme Being, God, and that is what this Thread is all about. That is why I put my comment in how I thought that Elohim is the NAME of this Supreme Being to distinguish Himself from all other “gods”
–DBF
David, some people use name to mean “title” but I tend to think of “name” as a personal name. “God” is not a name, just like Father, Lord, etc are not names. “Jehovah” is a name.
Are there any scriptures that specifically say that “God” is his name? There are such ones for Jehovah.
Quote Hello David, Yes I do mean a physical, material body. YHVH is seen in Genesis 3 walking, talking, killing an animal and then covering Adam and Eve, receiving tithes and sacrifices (Priestly duties) from Cain and Abel, etc. He also is a King and sits on a physical throne.
I feel I could spend vast amounts of time disagreeing with you on these things, but that is perhaps another thread. “God is a spirit” the Bible says. In some scriptures it appears as though God was actually seen, but in others it's made clear that it was a vision, or angelic representatives….
Hello David,Again, the topic is not God's name however Spirit and YHVH are the male and female essences of Elohim. So, spending time on these two essences would be appropriate.
God is Spirit (true) and God is YHVH.
To my understanding as author of this Thread I am to keep the posts on topic.
The Professor
Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 03 2010,14:10) Quote (david @ Aug. 03 2010,04:45) Because if “of” sometimes has to be added when translating it into Greek, then you have no argument. If “of” already exists in Hebrew, and it isn't in that Genesis Scripture, then we have an anomoly.
Hi david,Neither The Hebrew Masoretic Texts nor the Greek language have a word for “OF”!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Ed and David,These words exist:
RuachElohim = God's Spirit (fem) Gen 1:2
YHVHElohim = God's YHVH (masc) Gen 2:4The Professor
Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 03 2010,06:10) Quote (david @ Aug. 03 2010,04:45) Because if “of” sometimes has to be added when translating it into Greek, then you have no argument. If “of” already exists in Hebrew, and it isn't in that Genesis Scripture, then we have an anomoly.
Hi david,Neither The Hebrew Masoretic Texts nor the Greek language have a word for “OF”!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
If that's true, this whole argument is essentially dead.Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 03 2010,15:47) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 03 2010,14:10) Quote (david @ Aug. 03 2010,04:45) Because if “of” sometimes has to be added when translating it into Greek, then you have no argument. If “of” already exists in Hebrew, and it isn't in that Genesis Scripture, then we have an anomoly.
Hi david,Neither The Hebrew Masoretic Texts nor the Greek language have a word for “OF”!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Ed and David,These words exist:
RuachElohim = God's Spirit (fem) Gen 1:2
YHVHElohim = God's YHVH (masc) Gen 2:4The Professor
Yes,those words do exist.RuachElohim = Spirit [of] God
YHVHElohim = YHVH GodIf a translator were to add the “of” as is apparently necessary when translating from Heb into English, they could add the “of” between spirit and God, and then this argument becomes meaningless.
“God's holy spirit” is often spoken of possesively anyway. At least a hundred times. That is enough proof needed to insert the “of” inbetween “spirit” and “God.” (The thing is, in English, “spirit of God” and “God's spirit” really mean the same thing essentially. Maybe that's why many Bible's translate it that way.)
The argument from DBF might be, 'well, if you can add the “of” there, why not also between “Jehovah” and “God,” as in “Jehovah of God.”
The answer is that:
1. In the Bible, “Jehovah is God.” “Jehovah is in truth God,” not part of God.
2. In the Bible, the holy spirit is used possesively, as if it were a part of God, or something he possesses.Quote To my understanding as author of this Thread I am to keep the posts on topic. I think the Administrators are supposed to do that. (I've often tried to do that myself. What I often do, is after a thread has gone downhill, I just start a duplicate thread, which people don't like….but then again, I don't like threads going off track either.)
Nick, the administrator doesn't really stay on topic himself (and I've literally asked him to do so several hundred times) so any attempt at him telling others to do this would be the zethin of hypocrisy.
Quote Hello David, Thank you for your assurance that the Bible does not say this:
Gen 1:27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
I'd rather believe the Bible than have your assurances. I really believe it can mean what it says.
Regardless of how you try to define “image” you will end up with the same end result “male and female” essences belonging to God (Elohim).
Your opinions/assurances can't really be “proof” of what you want to deny….. what is written.
Your “I think” and questions about God doesn't change what is written.
The thread is about Elohim (not animals) and God's two essences.
I even restated step by step any points you'd like to rebutt…please stay on topic, ok?
Mike, would you say David's “research” is valid?
DBF, it's just that you have inserted several wrong if not questionable presuppositions into your argument. It's like you are trying to prove why the world is flat, when I don't even think it is flat. And if it's not flat, then any argument as to why it is flat would be meaningless.
Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 03 2010,06:38) Quote (david @ Aug. 03 2010,04:49) Hello David, “God is a spirit” the Bible says.
Hi david,Would you also say: “God is Holy”?
If so, then connect them! (Click Here)Man says that! There is NO indefinite article in either Hebrew or Greek!
It should read: “God is Spirit”, and because “is” is also added;
It's really “God Spirit”=117 same as 117=יהוה האלהיםYou are learning so much today, david! No “OF”, No “A” or “AN”!
Also, all italicized words (in AKJV Bible) are added words;
being absent from the original texts themselves!Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
See DBF, this is a definite example of placing a post where it doesn't belong and pushing an idea in the wrong thread.Quote Eloh = base (noun, feminine)
im = ending (noun, masc, plural)It seems that everything I check seems to say that Elohim comes from Eloah. I have great difficulty finding the connection to Eloh. Could you help?
Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 03 2010,15:01) Hi Ed, 1) People are so good to cite word meanings and that is not arbitrary, but according to you, when I do, that is arbitrary?
Gen 1:2 Spirit of God moved…..
Spirit = noun, feminine
God (El) = noun, masculine2) How much clearer could it be?
3) Did I choose to create the Hebrew language?4) Don't know why you don't like what is written: It is truth.
The Professor
Hi David,1) Isn't that what 'your saying' about me? (Matt.7:1-5)
I merely point out (to 'you') others here on the Forum
see 'you' as you see me. (see my point #4) (Matt.7:2)I have presented all this information pretty clear to you;
Did you read the entire thread located here (Prob.18:13)
The answer is probably no; huh? (Prob.25:2)2) Did I create The AKJV Bible?
3) Did I create numbers?4) Seems you see your own reflection in me; huh? (Psalm 18:25-27 / John 12:40)
John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see
with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
