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DavidBFun,
ADAM was not TWO Essences joined together…
Adam was created as ONE Entity – it was only afterwards that he was 'split' into two parts, one part called man (Male) and the other woman (female) because when you split a single thing you need to name the two parts.
God is not 'SPLIT' into two parts and then JOINED together: God our father, God who's name is YHVH, is ONE!
An aside:
(For another thread: Why do we say God is our Father?: If God is our Father then we are his Sons (and Daughters) as Jesus is his Son!!)Also, DavidBFun: How do you arrive at the conclusion that Light is Feminine and Darkness is Masculine?
Since strength and power is Masculine does this then mean that Darkness is Power and strength. Surely power and Strength is in LIGHT!!! and Darkness has NO Power because darkness is the ABSENCE of LIGHT.I think your ideas are leading you astray.
This is extraordinarily confusing having two david's on here, especially when they are commenting in the same thread. Perhaps a good idea would be to quote the david you are speaking to or make it more clear.
Quote Someone tried to say that the “US” in those verses is the Father and Jesus….but again the verse says male AND female; which one is the female? –davidbfun
So, davidbfun, do you think that God and Jesus in heaven have all the parts that we do. You seem to think that us being created in God's image, means physical image, as opposed to us being created with godly attributes. If you look at this physically, then let me ask you:
Does God use have literal ears that he uses to hear like we do?
Does God have literal eyes like we do that let's him see light?
Does God have literal fingers that help him to move things around?
Does he have reproductive organs? Does he have a stomach? Does he have lungs that help him breath?When we are told that he wears a crown or sits on a throne, it is to convey a thought, that of authority. When we are told of his “arm” or his “finger” it is refernce to his holy spirit, which he uses to accomplish his will. (He does not literally need an arm to pick things up.)
For the sake of understanding, we are given ideas that help us understand his glory, etc. In one account, his holy spirit is called his finger. This is for the sake of understanding.
He does not need the sound waves to travel to his ear and have his eardrum bones vibrate in order for him to hear you. That is ridiculous.
You act as though God were a man.
Us being created in his image means we were given godly attributes, the ability to love, to show wisdom, to be patient, to reason, etc. The animals were not created in his image. Look at the verse in context.
david
Image: to draw a likeness; to describe; to reflect; to picture in the mind.
Can it not be said that we “reflect” God in ways that animals don't?
David (-NOT-BFun),
Excellent post.
True to the core.You have the ear of Justaskin…
(p.s. can i have it back cos i wanna listen to some stereo music!)
Quote Hi David, Sorry I had to crash,,,,back now. YHVH could be the name used for God (El) but not for God (Elohim).
–DBF
But YHVH is the name used for Elohim thousands of times in Scripture.
I went through the Bible. Here's what I found:
“Jehovah is God.” (Ps 100:3)
Expressions we find in the Bible:
Jehovah God–50 times
the [true] God Jehovah–4 times
Jehovah their God–39 times
Jehovah the [true] God–8 times.
Jehovah is in truth God–1 time
Jehovah is God–1 time
Jehovah is my God–1 time
Jehovah is our God–1 time
Jehovah your God–455 times
Jehovah our God–105 times
Jehovah my God–40 times
Jehovah his God–29 times
Jehovah is a God–7 times
Jehovah the God of–204 times
Jehovah a God–1 timeLiterally a thousand times YHWH is called “God.”
Quote Also, yesterday I spent the day looking at the words LORD, LORD God, etc. Most of the verses talk as if that YHVH was a Title like “Master” instead of a name. If it is a “name” then put a name there and see how it reads…without the context. I think you should consider a Bible that hasn't taken God's name out thousands of times. The word “lord” means “master,” and since your Bible has substituted the title “LORD” and also “GOD” thousands of times where YHWH originally was, it's understandable that you would get that impression. Read it without the substitutions and you will get a much different impression.
Also, “Jehovah” is used with reference to him more than “LORD”, “God” “Father” “Almighty” etc combined!
Quote It also seemed odd that if the Jews/hebrews so revered the name why did Moses and Abraham address him directly so much? Unless they realized their place and was lovingly calling him “Master”. Also, for a name that was so sacred it is used over 6500 times, wow!
Abraham and Moses were faithful servants of God who did the right thing.
The Jews who took out and removed Gods name because they said it was too sacred to pronounce were doing the wrong thing.Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 01 2010,01:10) Quote (david @ Aug. 01 2010,00:31) Quote Gen 1:27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. God chooses to call himself “Father,” not “mother.”
What would you say to that.
Excellent David,Good thought.
God (El) is “(noun, masc, singular)”, what else would He call Himself if He were a parent? Father, no? Definitely not Mother; so, if He isn't the Mother, who is?
There must be God, “xxxx” (noun,feminine, singular).
The Professor
So if he chooses to call himself “Father” and not mother, then who are we to disagree?Should we not honor this by also calling him Father?
Quote Elohim is the name for Elohim. –Davidbfun.
Davidbfun, your 'God is the name for God' idea is a very popular one among those who don't own a Bible. When asked God's name, a large majority will say: “God, or Jesus or Lord”
But there are several scriptures that say “Jehovah” is God's name.
Are those scriptures lying?
Does it not make sense that this book, which is a biography of God would have his name in it more than any other name–thousands of times?
“Jehovah” occurs FAR more than “God” “lord” “Father” and ALL his titles COMBINED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote Elohim's YHVH; YHVH is not Elohim's name.
Elohim's Spirit; Spirit is not Elohim's name.–Dbf
dAVID, you can stop saying that spirit is not God's name because no one believes that.
But the Bible does repeatedly say that YHVH is God's name. Why do you dismiss those scriptures?
Quote YHVH could be a name, but not for Elohim. i.e. YHVH God (El) Expressions we find in the Bible:
Jehovah God–50 times (Or YHVH God)
the [true] God Jehovah–4 times
Jehovah their God–39 times
Jehovah the [true] God–8 times.
Jehovah is in truth God–1 time
Jehovah is God–1 time
Jehovah is my God–1 time
Jehovah is our God–1 time
Jehovah your God–455 times
Jehovah our God–105 times
Jehovah my God–40 times
Jehovah his God–29 times
Jehovah is a God–7 times
Jehovah the God of–204 times
Jehovah a God–1 timeHow can you explain this? Would you like me to show you those 50 times?
Quote Hebrew has two:
El = God (noun, masc, singular)
Elohim = God (noun, masc AND fem, singular)First, even if Elohim were feminine, what would that prove? You should learn french or spanish, or any other such language.
Unfortunately, in English, we are not used to every word being either male or female. In french everything is male or female. A table or a wall might be female (guesses). What does that prove?If we are specifically told that God is our Father….
Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 01 2010,02:40) To ALL, Do you see that Elohim consists of two essences? Gen 1:27.
Yes or no?
GENESIS 1:27
“And God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them.”We are told 2 things here. You don't have to connect those 2 things as you do.
We are told that
1. God created man in his image
2. male and female he created them.However, even if it said: 'God created man and woman in his image' it still wouldn't prove your point, as image does not have to mean “exact physical form.”
(see post about God's body parts above.)
David,
DBF's argument also don't hold water if you consider this;
He twist the Scriptures to says “God created a Man in His Image and he Created a Woman in His Image”.
So does God have TWO Images…?Of course not, God Almighty is ONE GOD.
More over – God did not create “A Man AND a Woman”…. God create “an ADAM” and then took the “Woman” out of “the ADAM”.
Of course, you were right what you said earlier – The IMAGE of God is not a physical form but the qualities of God and thus then: He created them, “Male and Female he created them birth”
Only the animals were created Male and Female from the beginning – Not Man because the animals were not created in God's image – Only MAN (The Adam – The first Human Son Of God)
Quote (JustAskin @ Aug. 01 2010,16:08) David, DBF's argument also don't hold water if you consider this;
He twist the Scriptures to says “God created a Man in His Image and he Created a Woman in His Image”.
So does God have TWO Images…?Of course not, God Almighty is ONE GOD.
More over – God did not create “A Man AND a Woman”…. God create “an ADAM” and then took the “Woman” out of “the ADAM”.
Of course, you were right what you said earlier – The IMAGE of God is not a physical form but the qualities of God and thus then: He created them, “Male and Female he created them birth”
Only the animals were created Male and Female from the beginning – Not Man because the animals were not created in God's image – Only MAN (The Adam – The first Human Son Of God)
Hello JA and David,You guys are funny.
God's a bird, he takes you under His wings.
Could “Man” be man in general (mankind) and not Adam?
Male and female are God's characteristics…not man and woman.
How am I twisting anything….here's the quote.
Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness….
Gen 1:27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
This is a summary of God's act of creating “Man”.
Eve wasn't even created for a long time after Adam, but God still did the creating when He removed the rib from Adam to form Woman.These verses give insight into God, for those that care to see.
You didn't want to see that the construction of the Hebrew word Elohim consists of a base Eloh (noun, feminine) and a masculine plural ending.
You don't realize “God (El) Almighty isn't referring to the same entity…Elohim. El (God) is referring to the male essence of Elohim and is a singular masculine noun. Whereas Elohim is a singular noun consisting of a masculine and feminine essence.
Two distinct and different words for our one word “God”, that apply to two different entities.
The Male and Female Image is how God chose to describe His qualities, take it for what it's worth.
That is why I prefer to describe “male and female” as essences versus physical attributes…especially since God is NOT human. See the heading of the Thread.
Please don't twist what I said. Didn't say a thing about a man and a woman. The Bible said “man” speaking generically and hopefully you can see that.
The Professor
Quote (david @ Aug. 01 2010,14:35) Quote Hebrew has two:
El = God (noun, masc, singular)
Elohim = God (noun, masc AND fem, singular)First, even if Elohim were feminine, what would that prove? You should learn french or spanish, or any other such language.
Unfortunately, in English, we are not used to every word being either male or female. In french everything is male or female. A table or a wall might be female (guesses). What does that prove?If we are specifically told that God is our Father….
Hi David,It only proves what GOD Said….we are created in God's image.
Take that up with God.
I brought up this Thread to hopefully enlighten some people's perspectives.
You can draw near to God only if God draws you.
The Professor
Quote (david @ Aug. 01 2010,13:49) This is extraordinarily confusing having two david's on here, especially when they are commenting in the same thread. Perhaps a good idea would be to quote the david you are speaking to or make it more clear.
David,That is why I am signing off as The Professor.
You guys missed the pun about calling me “TP”.
The Professor
Quote (david @ Aug. 01 2010,14:35) Quote Hebrew has two:
El = God (noun, masc, singular)
Elohim = God (noun, masc AND fem, singular)First, even if Elohim were feminine, what would that prove? You should learn french or spanish, or any other such language.
Unfortunately, in English, we are not used to every word being either male or female. In french everything is male or female. A table or a wall might be female (guesses). What does that prove?If we are specifically told that God is our Father….
Hi David,Another post,,,,begotten and born….Father….
God's only begotten child is Jesus. We are God's children thru formation, out of dust with His hands….or adopted.
It is good to be able to call God, “Father”. “Father” is a male attribute, and fathering is the act of begetting. Jesus is YHVH's only begotten son and he called him Father, too. So, if Jesus had a Father, who was his Mother? What's the diff?
Why not get to know BOTH of your parents?
Elohim has two essences……M/F
The Professor
Quote (JustAskin @ Aug. 01 2010,16:08) David, DBF's argument also don't hold water if you consider this;
He twist the Scriptures to says “God created a Man in His Image and he Created a Woman in His Image”.
So does God have TWO Images…?Of course not, God Almighty is ONE GOD.
More over – God did not create “A Man AND a Woman”…. God create “an ADAM” and then took the “Woman” out of “the ADAM”.
Of course, you were right what you said earlier – The IMAGE of God is not a physical form but the qualities of God and thus then: He created them, “Male and Female he created them birth”
Only the animals were created Male and Female from the beginning – Not Man because the animals were not created in God's image – Only MAN (The Adam – The first Human Son Of God)
Hi JA,At what point did God become male and female? Or was He always that way?
And why did “God” tell us this information.
It is only one of a couple of times where we get to ease drop on God speaking to Himself…”Let US”…..what do you hear?
He illuminates some, others He leaves in the dark.
The Professor
Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 01 2010,13:21) Quote (JustAskin @ Aug. 01 2010,16:08) David, DBF's argument also don't hold water if you consider this;
He twist the Scriptures to says “God created a Man in His Image and he Created a Woman in His Image”.
So does God have TWO Images…?Of course not, God Almighty is ONE GOD.
More over – God did not create “A Man AND a Woman”…. God create “an ADAM” and then took the “Woman” out of “the ADAM”.
Of course, you were right what you said earlier – The IMAGE of God is not a physical form but the qualities of God and thus then: He created them, “Male and Female he created them birth”
Only the animals were created Male and Female from the beginning – Not Man because the animals were not created in God's image – Only MAN (The Adam – The first Human Son Of God)
Hello JA and David,You guys are funny.
God's a bird, he takes you under His wings.
Could “Man” be man in general (mankind) and not Adam?
Male and female are God's characteristics…not man and woman.
How am I twisting anything….here's the quote.
Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness….
Gen 1:27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
This is a summary of God's act of creating “Man”.
Eve wasn't even created for a long time after Adam, but God still did the creating when He removed the rib from Adam to form Woman.These verses give insight into God, for those that care to see.
You didn't want to see that the construction of the Hebrew word Elohim consists of a base Eloh (noun, feminine) and a masculine plural ending.
You don't realize “God (El) Almighty isn't referring to the same entity…Elohim. El (God) is referring to the male essence of Elohim and is a singular masculine noun. Whereas Elohim is a singular noun consisting of a masculine and feminine essence.
Two distinct and different words for our one word “God”, that apply to two different entities.
The Male and Female Image is how God chose to describe His qualities, take it for what it's worth.
That is why I prefer to describe “male and female” as essences versus physical attributes…especially since God is NOT human. See the heading of the Thread.
Please don't twist what I said. Didn't say a thing about a man and a woman. The Bible said “man” speaking generically and hopefully you can see that.
The Professor
Hi David,( YHVH=63 + Eloheem=63 ) …Two different aspects of one entity.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHaHa DBF,
You the funny guy, although i'm not sure that you are male at all.
God did 'become' anything.
God is, was, and always will be, Himself.
I did not say God became male and female.
You are either deliberately misunderstanding or seriously deluded.
'Male' qualities:…power, might, authority, Fire, creative, strength, majestic, managerial, organisational, holy, righteous, truthful, honest…
'Female' qualities: Nurture, love, wisdom(?), gentle, forgiving, comforting, water.Note that these are not 'man' and 'woman', but 'male' and 'female' qualities. A man or woman may have any number or amount of these qualities.
These qualities and many more, are the qualities of God and which he also put into the man Adam, and then remove some 'the rib' to form the woman. And life bears out that men and woman do indeed have virtually identical qualities respectively (Except the differences are being broken down daily by a growing number of 'Gender: other')
And DBF, do you not know that the word 'ADAM' is both a Term meaning 'Man'…or 'Mankind' and a Name 'Adam'.
Look at the context to decide if the writer is using the Name or the Term.DBF, you are getting out of your depth with this pointless discussion that exposes nothing that anyone doesn't know already. In fact, the more you sink, the more you will start twisting your points to try to maintain your idea.
Be careful to know when to give up.
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