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Quote (david @ July 31 2010,00:07) Quote If you put together Spirit Elohim and translate it as God's Spirit you'll see that Spirit is a part of Elohim. Then put together YHVH Elohim and translate it as God's YHVH you will see that YHVH is NOT a name, but a part of Elohim, just like Spirit.
The problem is, the rest of the scriptures.
We do have many cases where Jehovah's spirit is used possesively…it is his finger, his arm, it is something he possesses and something he uses. There are many scriptures that say “his spirit” or “God's holy spirit” or things like that. And there are many scriptures that say “YHVH Elohim” or “Jehovah God.”
There are also scriptures that indicate that YHVH is God's name, as as “Jehovah is my name.”I think that just because in one case many translations translate “spirit Elohim” as “God's spirit” or “spirit [of] God” that this justifies inserting an “of” between Jehovah God, since other evidence points to the contrary. You perhaps should be arguing that “spirit God” should not have an “of” in between it.
Hello David,If you make YHWH a Name, then you need to make Spirit a name. If you don't make YHWH a name then don't make Spirit a name either. Whatever you do to one, it is logical to do the other.
For me YHWH can be a name, but also it looks like it is used as a title.
As regards to this Thread, YHWH to me is the male essence of Elohim.
The Holy Spirit is the female essence of Elohim who happens to be the Spirit of YHWH as well. Is 11:2
The Professor
Quote (t8 @ July 31 2010,17:19) Quote (davidbfun @ July 06 2010,03:07) God's image = male, female
What does it mean to you that Jesus is the image of the invisible God?
Hello t8,I feel that it is quite possible that the image of the invisible God is “Light” that Jesus had.
I don't believe that while God was creating the universe thru His son that he had a physical body. After the creation was thru I believe that Jesus had an angelic body and lived in Heaven with God, who has a physical body and sits physically on a throne and serves physically in the Heavenly Temple.
Gen 1:3 talks about the first thing God created was “Light” co-relating to Jesus being the firstborn of all creation (Col 1:15) and John 1:4 Jesus is the light of men.
The Professor
Quote (david @ Aug. 01 2010,00:39) Quote (davidbfun @ July 30 2010,17:55) Quote (david @ July 31 2010,00:12) Quote However Spirit and YHVH are objects “of” Elohim….and cannot be names. And yet, YHVH appears to be God's name.
“I am Jehovah. That is my name;” (Is 42:8)
“Jehovah of armies being his name…” (Is 54:5)
“That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.” (Ps 83:18, King James)
Is 54:5 “For your husband is your Maker, Whose name is the LORD of hosts;Who is the wife?
As usual you ask to stay in two verses and we get buck shot all over the place.
My comment was referring to the words in Gen 1:2 and 2:4 and the structure of those words…..not looking for a debate on who YHVH is.
DAVidBfun,You might not be looking for a debate on who YHVH is, and you may only want to discuss those 2 scriptures, however, your understanding of those two scriptures you were discussing was based on a false idea, that “Spirit and YHVH are objects “of” Elohim….and cannot be names.“
“I am Jehovah. That is my name;” (Is 42:8)
You say: YHVH cannot be a name.
Scripture says YHVH is his name. It's the most used name in HIS book. HIS name is used more often than all of HIS titles put together. It's used more often than FATHER, Creator, Lord, God, Almighty, etc COMBINED!This is what we would expect about HIS book, that HIS name, our FATHER'S name be mentioned often. And, it is.
So, anyway, this idea that Jehovah (YHVH) cannot be a name is absurd.
David,YHWH is a name and it is used as a title. Like I said from the beginning is that this thread wasn't to argue about YHWH but that is where you have stayed.
The idea was to identify the two essences.
YHWH is one of the two essences and appears to be the male essence. YOU say that He called himself Father….giving me the illusion that He could've called Himself Mother?
Spirit is the other of the two essences of Elohim and is a feminine noun.
All I can say is whatever you make of YHWH you need to do the same for Ruwach. YHWH = LORD and is a name; Ruwach = Spirit and is a name. Elohim is the name of the two combined together. Does this sound agreeable to you?
The Professor
Quote (david @ Aug. 01 2010,00:31) Quote Gen 1:27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. God chooses to call himself “Father,” not “mother.”
What would you say to that.
David,I say that YHWH is “God, the Father”.
I say that Spirit is “God, the Mother”.
I say that Elohim is “God, Most High”.
I think that YHWH had no “choice” of being called a Father because He is the male essence of Elohim.
I know that the Spirit of God is feminine. I don't see Scripture calling Her “Mother”….which causes a lot of debate.
I know that God's (Elohim's) image is Male and Female which goes along with YHWH Elohim and Spirit Elohim.
The Professor
Quote (david @ Aug. 01 2010,01:21) It just bothers me that I'm trying to discuss what this thread is about, and you are hijacking and and essentially hiding my posts which I'd like responses to. That just means I have to repost them. You know ed, we can discuss this in the KJ thread. I've been posting there too. would that not make more sense?
David,I have more time and experience on the site and agree with you about the bad posting by Ed.
When I was new, I didn't have a good handle on knowing when someone posted and missed many of yours….sorry.
The Professor
Quote (JustAskin @ Aug. 01 2010,04:03) David,
The Spirit of God is neither male nor female. It is the Spirit of God.Spirits do not have gender.
It may be called 'He' because the language we use only has three genders…and 'IT' did not seem to be appropriate to the Scripture translators in terms of reverence.
They therefore gave it the male gender rather than neuter it because it belongs to the One who has Power and the gender that reflects power, 'He'.All Angels are 'He' because they have power.
Wisdom is given a female gender because it has 'nurturing' qualities which is not explicit 'power'.
Eve was 'taken out of Adam'.
The 'Birthgiving, Nurturing' qualities, the 'Caring, compassionate, vanity, needy, etc' qualities were taken out and made into a woman.Yes, all these were in the original, day one Adam. A single unit of a living person, as God is, because Adam was made in God's image.
But Adam had no 'Companions' like God had His Angels to glorify Himself.
So Adam was put to 'sleep' and out of him was taken a 'rib', those qualities mentioned, and they were put into another body and called 'Woman', 'Wombed Man'.
Because of this, Man is incomplete and requires a partner to become complete, and I mean a Partner of the 'Opposite Gender'…The qualities of the Male plus the qualities of the female, make a full human unit, one 'flesh' in the eyes of God, just as he created Adam on day one of his existence.
Before anyone posts back…'day one…of Adams existence' not 'day one of the whole creation'.
Hello JA,I am not an authority on “spirits”….or angels
I just know that the Hebrew word “Ruwach” is defined as a feminine noun.
You pointed out that God (Elohim) is spirit, I believe, no? But, the Bible says that YHWH Elohim had a body Gen 3:8. So, either the Bible is mistaken or BOTH are true.
Then I have read Gen 1:27 when God (Elohim) created man in God's image; male and female.
JA in Greek you are correct with “spirits” having no gender. However, in Hebrew “spirit” is feminine.
When you have Elohim consisting of two essences yet being ONE entity “God” you have three pronouns to use in addressing God:
1-He
2-She
3-They#3 is automatically ruled out because God is ONE.
#1 is most logical because YHWH Elohim had a physical body and was physically present with people throughout the Bible. So, when the people saw “God” they saw a male presence.
However, the drawback of having only one pronoun is that the feminine essence of God is missed because She is still addressed as He.
Notice also that Adam was created a male physically. YHWH is a male physically. Woman came out of man. Spirit is part of YHWH. We have a body, we have a spirit, just “like” God.
The Professor
Quote (JustAskin @ Aug. 01 2010,11:23) DavidBFun, ADAM was not TWO Essences joined together…
Adam was created as ONE Entity – it was only afterwards that he was 'split' into two parts, one part called man (Male) and the other woman (female) because when you split a single thing you need to name the two parts.
God is not 'SPLIT' into two parts and then JOINED together: God our father, God who's name is YHVH, is ONE!
An aside:
(For another thread: Why do we say God is our Father?: If God is our Father then we are his Sons (and Daughters) as Jesus is his Son!!)Also, DavidBFun: How do you arrive at the conclusion that Light is Feminine and Darkness is Masculine?
Since strength and power is Masculine does this then mean that Darkness is Power and strength. Surely power and Strength is in LIGHT!!! and Darkness has NO Power because darkness is the ABSENCE of LIGHT.I think your ideas are leading you astray.
JA,You bring up an interesting point. How is it that Adam was able to produce a female of the species? He was one entity as you pointed out but, out from Adam came Woman.
As I see it, God is two parts as one and then “splits” to perform the function of each.
Elohim, the two joined is spirit and is everywhere. Then YHWH performs His functions with a body.
Seriously, how do you explain that YHWH Elohim has a physical bodily presence but then say that God is “spirit” and no one has seen God. BOTH statements to me MUST be true. The only way that this is possible is by God consisting of the two essences within Elohim (male and female) and (spirit and body) outside Elohim.
Jesus is part of the “no one” has seen “God” group but he says he has seen the Father. So, if he hasn't seen “God” that must mean (Holy) Spirit, God or Elohim who is spirit, “God”.
The Professor
Quote (JustAskin @ Aug. 01 2010,11:23) DavidBFun, ADAM was not TWO Essences joined together…
Adam was created as ONE Entity – it was only afterwards that he was 'split' into two parts, one part called man (Male) and the other woman (female) because when you split a single thing you need to name the two parts.
God is not 'SPLIT' into two parts and then JOINED together: God our father, God who's name is YHVH, is ONE!
An aside:
(For another thread: Why do we say God is our Father?: If God is our Father then we are his Sons (and Daughters) as Jesus is his Son!!)Also, DavidBFun: How do you arrive at the conclusion that Light is Feminine and Darkness is Masculine?
Since strength and power is Masculine does this then mean that Darkness is Power and strength. Surely power and Strength is in LIGHT!!! and Darkness has NO Power because darkness is the ABSENCE of LIGHT.I think your ideas are leading you astray.
Hello JA,To answer the question on how I get light being feminine and darkness being masculine. It comes from the word lookup at blb.org as I read a verse. I am able to look at the number and the number tells what the Hebrew word means in English and then it gives the “Parts of Speech” and if it is a noun it gives the gender.
The Professor
Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 22 2010,14:16) Hello David, If you make YHWH a Name, then you need to make Spirit a name.
The Professor
Hi David,You're trying to make that into a name. God's name is YHVH!
The “Divine”=63 “Deity”=63 of “The Bible”=63 is “YHVH”=63; “YHVH is GOD”.
YHVH is God's Name (יהוה) translated into English; as the Hebrew lacks vowels.GOD’s most sacred Holy Name [יהוה] was given to us directly from the Hebrew language.
Correctly translating Hebrew into other languages can be difficult however. Some basic
linguistical rules need to be considered when translating Hebrew texts. These include a lack
of spacing between words, as a general rule has no written vowels and the basic direction
in which Hebrew is written (opposite: from right to left). Hebrew word spacing is a modern
advent that distinguishes one word from the next, aiding both translators and multi-linguists
alike. Unwritten “implied” vowel sounds are a concern because, correct pronunciations of
Hebrew words are at risk. This point is made because the correct pronunciation was thought
to be lost, which led only to translators’ interpretations.GOD’s Name (יהוה) transliterates directly into English as YHVH because the Hebrew alphabet
lacks vowels. Hebrew has No [W] sound, No [J] sound and the symbol ש is pronounced “Sh”.[יהוה] GOD’s Name [י] Yod [ה] Ha [ו] Vav [ה] Hey is pronounced YÄ-hä-vā & [יה] YÄ
The identity of יהוה=26 is “GOD”=26 spoken as YÄ-hä-vā: where ä sounds like
that of the word “ah” and the other ā sounds like the vowel in the word “hay”.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (davidbfun @ Aug. 18 2010,11:45) Hi Ed, Body = YHVH
Spirit = SpiritONE God = Elohim (noun, masc & fem, singular)
The Professor
Hi David,
You didn't forget what God's Name was here(YHVH)!
Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgPeople seem to get off track or don't want to address the issue:
I'll try to bring it back.
Who created the heavens and the earth? Elohim.
What are the two essences of Elohim? Male and female.
Why not address the thread?
The Professor
Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 27 2010,02:32) People seem to get off track or don't want to address the issue: I'll try to bring it back.
Who created the heavens and the earth? Elohim.
What are the two essences of Elohim? Male and female.
Why not address the thread?
The Professor
Hi David,There are “Seven” essences of God, not just 'two'. (Click Here)
Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Aug. 27 2010,11:25) Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 27 2010,02:32) People seem to get off track or don't want to address the issue: I'll try to bring it back.
Who created the heavens and the earth? Elohim.
What are the two essences of Elohim? Male and female.
Why not address the thread?
The Professor
Hi David,There are “Seven” essences of God, not just 'two'. (Click Here)
Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
As usual, no Scripture and misdirection.Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 27 2010,09:32) People seem to get off track or don't want to address the issue: I'll try to bring it back.
Who created the heavens and the earth? Elohim.
What are the two essences of Elohim? Male and female.
Why not address the thread?
The Professor
DBFWhat are the two essences of Elohim? Male and female
to me there is only follow Gods will out of love for him,
or do not and so oppose him ,for your own destruction.i do not want to go were i can not go without speculation ,if you can show me.
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 27 2010,13:07) Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 27 2010,09:32) People seem to get off track or don't want to address the issue: I'll try to bring it back.
Who created the heavens and the earth? Elohim.
What are the two essences of Elohim? Male and female.
Why not address the thread?
The Professor
DBFWhat are the two essences of Elohim? Male and female
to me there is only follow Gods will out of love for him,
or do not and so oppose him ,for your own destruction.i do not want to go were i can not go without speculation ,if you can show me.
Pierre
Pierre,Thanks for being honest. I, too, don't like too much speculation.
Gen 1:1 identifies Elohim as the creator
Gen 1:2 identifies Ruwach Elohim as God's Spirit
Gen 2:4 identifies YHWH Elohim as Elohim's YHWH or LORD GodSpirit is a feminine noun….and is a part of Elohim.
YHWH is a Proper noun, masculine….and is a part of Elohim.Gen 1:27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; MALE and FEMALE He created them.
Man is just like God, masculine and feminine.
No speculation, just Scriptures.
The Professor
Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 27 2010,12:19) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 27 2010,13:07) Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 27 2010,09:32) People seem to get off track or don't want to address the issue: I'll try to bring it back.
Who created the heavens and the earth? Elohim.
What are the two essences of Elohim? Male and female.
Why not address the thread?
The Professor
DBFWhat are the two essences of Elohim? Male and female
to me there is only follow Gods will out of love for him,
or do not and so oppose him ,for your own destruction.i do not want to go were i can not go without speculation ,if you can show me.
Pierre
Pierre,Thanks for being honest. I, too, don't like too much speculation.
Gen 1:1 identifies Elohim as the creator
Gen 1:2 identifies Ruwach Elohim as God's Spirit
Gen 2:4 identifies YHWH Elohim as Elohim's YHWH or LORD GodSpirit is a feminine noun….and is a part of Elohim.
YHWH is a Proper noun, masculine….and is a part of Elohim.Gen 1:27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; MALE and FEMALE He created them.
Man is just like God, masculine and feminine.
No speculation, just Scriptures.
The Professor
DBFi do not see it that way,God is spirit and is unique in himself,
is Son hi the one who has a direct connection to God,all Angelique organization in heaven is represented as a women (companion)(partners) (associates)in a way.Adam was created in the image of God not Eve she was taken from Adam,and became his partner,or companion,or associate.friend ,mother of his children and so on.
this earthly family looks similar to what God as done in heaven first.
it is men that has destroying all things
Pierre
Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 27 2010,03:30) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 27 2010,11:25) Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 27 2010,02:32) People seem to get off track or don't want to address the issue: I'll try to bring it back.
Who created the heavens and the earth? Elohim.
What are the two essences of Elohim? Male and female.
Why not address the thread?
The Professor
Hi David,There are “Seven” essences of God, not just 'two'. (Click Here)
Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
As usual, no Scripture and misdirection.
Hi David,1Thes:5:21: Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Revelation 1:4: John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him
which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;Rev.3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath
the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works,
that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.Rev.4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there
were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.Rev.5:6: And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts,
and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain,
having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.Zech 3:9: For behold the stone that I have laid before [Jesus];
upon one stone shall be seven eyes (Rev.2:17): behold, I
will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of Hosts,
and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.
Psalm 118:24 This is the day which the LORD
hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgElohim (God) (Source) consists of two essences:
1- “YHWH” (member of) Elohim
2- “Spirit” (member of) ElohimSpirit Elohim consists of 7 Spirits.
Since “Spirit” Elohim is a member of Elohim (God), that would technically make Elohim the “owner” of the 7 Spirits as well since Spirit is Elohim's.
I just point out the intricacies to whom the 7 Spirits fall “under” (Spirit)….without avoiding the “essence”.
It is true that Elohim is the source of all and therefore could attribute both actions of YHWH and Spirit to Elohim and would always be correct.
In math the idea is this:
YHWH and Spirit are subsets of Elohim; therefore any subset of YHWH is still a part of Elohim and any subset of Spirit is still a part of Elohim, so you can never go wrong by attributing anything to Elohim….would you?
Unless you try to make Elohim a subset of YHWH or Spirit…then it is an incorrect equation.
The Professor
Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 28 2010,09:44) Elohim (God) (Source) consists of two essences: 1- “YHWH” (member of) Elohim
2- “Spirit” (member of) ElohimSpirit Elohim consists of 7 Spirits.
Since “Spirit” Elohim is a member of Elohim (God), that would technically make Elohim the “owner” of the 7 Spirits as well since Spirit is Elohim's.
I just point out the intricacies to whom the 7 Spirits fall “under” (Spirit)….without avoiding the “essence”.
It is true that Elohim is the source of all and therefore could attribute both actions of YHWH and Spirit to Elohim and would always be correct.
In math the idea is this:
YHWH and Spirit are subsets of Elohim; therefore any subset of YHWH is still a part of Elohim and any subset of Spirit is still a part of Elohim, so you can never go wrong by attributing anything to Elohim….would you?
Unless you try to make Elohim a subset of YHWH or Spirit…then it is an incorrect equation.
The Professor
DBFthe seven spirits are before the throne of Christ;To the seven churches in the province of Asia:
Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne,
Rev 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 28 2010,11:13) Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 28 2010,09:44) Elohim (God) (Source) consists of two essences: 1- “YHWH” (member of) Elohim
2- “Spirit” (member of) ElohimSpirit Elohim consists of 7 Spirits.
Since “Spirit” Elohim is a member of Elohim (God), that would technically make Elohim the “owner” of the 7 Spirits as well since Spirit is Elohim's.
I just point out the intricacies to whom the 7 Spirits fall “under” (Spirit)….without avoiding the “essence”.
It is true that Elohim is the source of all and therefore could attribute both actions of YHWH and Spirit to Elohim and would always be correct.
In math the idea is this:
YHWH and Spirit are subsets of Elohim; therefore any subset of YHWH is still a part of Elohim and any subset of Spirit is still a part of Elohim, so you can never go wrong by attributing anything to Elohim….would you?
Unless you try to make Elohim a subset of YHWH or Spirit…then it is an incorrect equation.
The Professor
DBFthe seven spirits are before the throne of Christ;To the seven churches in the province of Asia:
Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne,
Rev 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.Pierre
Thanks Pierre,That is what I keep saying.
There are 3 distinct and separate persons in Rev 1:4-5
Grace to you and peace, from: Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
1-Him who is and who was and who is to come,
2-the seven Spirits who are before His throne
3-Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.Thank God that they didn't use the word God here which would have really confused everything…because in Greek there is no distinction. However, without it I can identify them:
1- YHWH (one subset of who YHWH is: who is and who was and who is to come) other elements of YHWH: God, Father, King, Priest, Prophet
2-Spirit (one subset of Spirit = 7 Spirits; here (generic) and Is 11:2 (specific) (Spirit of YHWH, Fear of YHWH, Power, Wisdom, Knowledge, Understanding, Counsel)
3-Jesus (son of God)YHWH and Spirit combined = Elohim (God)
The Professor
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