Dualism

[Worshipping Jesus]

*A challenge for the Unitarians, Henotheist, and Arians*

Amazing how people scoff and laugh at a proposed truth without any scriptural evidence to back up what they say.

Heres my evidence, where is yours?

Please tell me based on the following scriptures how do you reconcile them from any other view but a Trinitarians?

How do you explain the following scriptures?

1 Cor 2:13
*For by one Spirit* are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made *to drink into one Spirit*.

Eph 4:4
There is one body, and *one Spirit*, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

II Cor 3:17
Now the *Lord is that Spirit*: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Eph 2:18
For through him we both have access by *one Spirit* unto the Father.

We see many scriptures that show that Jesus – The Spirit of God – The Spirit of Christ – God – The Father – Spirit of him – The Spirit – His Spirit – Comforter – Holy Spirit that are terms being used interchangeably in speaking of *God dwelling in our Body* the Temple of God, the Temple of the Holy Spirit or the Temple of Christ.

Rom 8:
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the *Spirit of God* dwell in you. Now if any man have not the *Spirit of Christ*, he is none of his.
10 And if *Christ be in you*, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the *Spirit of him* that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by *his Spirit* that dwelleth in you.

Now we see a few of the terms I mentioned earlier in Rom 8:9,10,11. A close look at these scriptures shows Paul uses the terms interchangeably to describe the “One Spirit” or the “One God”.

They are all living within us by the one Spirit which we call the Spirit of christ the Spirit of God and the Holy Spirit!

Look and see!

*Father*
II Cor 6:16
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, *I will dwell in them, and walk in them*; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

*Son*.
II Cor 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that *Jesus Christ is in you*, except ye be reprobates?

*Holy Spirit*.
I Cor 6:
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the *Holy Ghost which is in you*, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Jn 14:
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you *another Comforter*, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Jn 16:
14 *He shall glorify me*: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that *he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you*.

These words are interchageable and mean one thing.

There is “One Spirit” “Three Persons” “One God”.

kenrch You say…

Quote

There is one Spirit but the Trinity doctrine says that their are three in one.  So what Spirit is the Holy Spirit in

Correct me if I am wrong. You believe the Father and the Son are the One Spirit! If not then how many are there? 2?

If you think the Spirit is the personal Spirit of the Father then how do you explain this scripture…

Gal 4:6
And because ye are sons, *God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father*.

Is this the “Spirit of Christ” or The Spirit of God”?

Does the Father cry Father?

The three persons the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit are divinely and unequelly and wonderfully joined together as ONE!

Whether it is speaking of the Father who walks in us or the Son or the Holy Spirit…

These three are “One Spirit”.

Matt 28:
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in *the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost*:
20 Teaching them *to observe all things* whatsoever I have commanded you: and, *lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen..

HMMM! Jesus who has all power in heaven and earth is gonna be with us (omnipresent) to the end of the world.

Definatly an attribute of God and not a mere man, wouldnt you say?

Now the questions?

When you recieved Christ into your heart, how many Spirits did you recieve?

Does the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit live in you?

If not please explain!

[kenrch]

Quote

kenrch You say… Quote There is one Spirit but the Trinity doctrine says that their are three in one. So what Spirit is the Holy Spirit in Correct me if I am wrong. You believe the Father and the Son are the One Spirit! If not then how many are there? 2? If you think the Spirit is the personal Spirit of the Father then how do you explain this scripture… Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, *God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father*. Is this the “Spirit of Christ” or The Spirit of God”? Does the Father cry Father? The three persons the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit are divinely and unequelly and wonderfully joined together as ONE! Whether it is speaking of the Father who walks in us or the Son or the Holy Spirit… These three are “One Spirit”.

Sure I have the Spirit of the Son I wouldn't be a son of God if I didn't. The Spirit of the Son is in the Holy Spirit they are one.

Wait! Does your doctrine say three IN one or three ARE one.

The Son is in the Father. We are in the Son who is in the Father who is the Holy Spirit.

Yes I believe that Jesus had the Spirit without measure. Jesus was full of the GOD. The Holy Spirit IS God.

The Father and Son have the same Spirit. There is but ONE Spirit. Scripture says that God is that Spirit.

Are their three in one OR two in one. Jesus said He and the Father are one. Where is number three?

Scripture does not support the Trinity doctrine anymore than it supports the “first” day sabbath of the Harlot.

Please answer my question. What Spirit is the Holy Spirit, the Father and the Son in?

It is three in one, correct?

You believe the Holy Spirit is a third separate person. Three in one correct? Then you have to include the Holy Spirit as being IN the same Spirit that Jesus and the Father are in.

Three in one is your doctrine NOT Father and Son in one Spirit that would be two in the ONE Spirit that scripture speaks about 1Cor. ch.12. But your doctrine teaches that the Holy Spirit is a third separate person and part of the Trio. Three in one then would include that person with NO Name and that third person would have to be IN that Spirit BUT Scripture says there is ONE Spirit.

So I ask you again “What Spirit is the Holy Spirit in?”

May God help us be one even as the Father and Son are!

IHN&L,

Ken

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
You say.
“Please tell me based on the following scriptures how do you reconcile them from any other view but a Trinitarians? “

But that is not a valid option.
It is not a biblical teaching.
It is vain human speculation.

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
You say
“Does the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit live in you?”

Now you say these three Spirits make one Spirit.
But the One Spirit is one of the three?
Mystery Babylon!!

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 02 2007,22:29)

Hi W, You say “Does the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit live in you?” Now you say these three Spirits make one Spirit. But the One Spirit is one of the three? Mystery Babylon!!

NH

You didnt answer the question!

What “Spirit” lives in you then?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 02 2007,22:27)

Hi W, You say. “Please tell me based on the following scriptures how do you reconcile them from any other view but a Trinitarians? “ But that is not a valid option. It is not a biblical teaching. It is vain human speculation.

NH

Then what is your option?

Please tell me how the scriptures above show the three persons The Father, Son and Holy Spirit” live in you as one Spirit?

[942767]

Hi WJ:

All of this I have discussed with you saying that the Father dwells in us by His Spirit as a helper.  Christ the Son of God dwells in us by his Word.  We are one in the spirit of holiness.

2 John1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, HE HATH BOTH THE FATHER AND THE SON.

You ask:
If you think the Spirit is the personal Spirit of the Father then how do you explain this scripture…

Gal 4:6
And because ye are sons, *God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father*.

And I ask you if you and Isaiah(Isaiah, I believe that you said that you rejected the Holy Spirit is God's personal Spirit.  Correct me if I misunderstood) don't believe that the Holy Spirit is God's personal spirit, how do you explain the following scripture:

1 Co. 2:10
But God hath revealed them unto us BY HIS SPIRIT: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.  
2:11
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Do you want to come into unity so that we can teach God's Word in truth or do you just want to go on endlessly arguing the same points over and over again.  This is why I get aggravated with you.  If you want to come into unity, let's take one or two scriptures and discuss them so that if possible by either your or my understanding we can come into unity, and if we can't, we can go to God in prayer asking Him to correct either you or me so that we can teach the same thing.  Either I am wrong on several of these scriptures or you are wrong, but that is not what matters.  What matters is that we arrive at the truth.

God Bless

[kenrch]

Quote (942767 @ June 03 2007,02:58)

Hi WJ: All of this I have discussed with you saying that the Father dwells in us by His Spirit as a helper.  Christ the Son of God dwells in us by his Word.  We are one in the spirit of holiness. 2 John1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, HE HATH BOTH THE FATHER AND THE SON. You ask: If you think the Spirit is the personal Spirit of the Father then how do you explain this scripture… Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, *God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father*. And I ask you if you and Isaiah(Isaiah, I believe that you said that you rejected the Holy Spirit is God's personal Spirit.  Correct me if I misunderstood) don't believe that the Holy Spirit is God's personal spirit, how do you explain the following scripture: 1 Co. 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us BY HIS SPIRIT: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.   2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Do you want to come into unity so that we can teach God's Word in truth or do you just want to go on endlessly arguing the same points over and over again.  This is why I get aggravated with you.  If you want to come into unity, let's take one or two scriptures and discuss them so that if possible by either your or my understanding we can come into unity, and if we can't, we can go to God in prayer asking Him to correct either you or me so that we can teach the same thing.  Either I am wrong on several of these scriptures or you are wrong, but that is not what matters.  What matters is that we arrive at the truth. God Bless

Amen! Brother! The Son and Father are one in Spirit, the Holy Spirit. We are supposed to be one in Spirit! This is what I pray for so we can function as a body.

God bless,

Ken

[NickHassan]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 03 2007,02:00)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 02 2007,22:29) Hi W, You say “Does the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit live in you?” Now you say these three Spirits make one Spirit. But the One Spirit is one of the three? Mystery Babylon!! NH You didnt answer the question! What “Spirit” lives in you then?

Hi W,
As soon as I can clarify from you whether the Spirit
is both a person in His own right
AND
the one Spirit that lives in us
I will be able to address the question you ask.

[Not3in1]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 01 2007,12:34)

Mainly because there is only One Spirit. Yet the Bible shows that the three persons of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit “Are” Wonderfully and Gloriously One Spirit! Maybe you could give me new light on this not3?

No, I can't shed more light on this mystery for you. I can tell you that scriptures that seem hard to understand should be interpreted in light of scriptures that are clear. When we start using our wisdom to deduce and deduct, we make for ourselves our own god; whether he be made out of gold or three other “persons” within one God.

[kenrch]

Quote (Not3in1 @ June 02 2007,09:11)

My fault, Tim, what I meant was continue reading all the way until you get to John 17 where Jesus also says that WE can be “one” as he and his Father are “one.”

Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Kenrch

Thanks for your response! However you didn’t answer my questions.

I have to admit that I am a little confused about what you believe. And based on your response I think you are little confused about what I believe.

For I find it leaves me with a lot more questions about your belief!

So lets see if we can clarify our beliefs and narrow it down!

You say…

Quote

Sure I have the Spirit of the Son I wouldn't be a son of God if I didn't.  The Spirit of the Son is in the Holy Spirit they are one.

You say you have the Spirit of the Son but the Spirit of the Son is in the Holy Spirit!

Can you help me understand how that is not 2 Spirits? 1. “The Spirit of the Son” and, 2. “The Holy Spirit”, which I think you are saying is the Fathers personal Spirit? Is that correct?

Is there a scripture that says there is 2 Spirits?

Was this Spirit of Jesus that is in the Holy Spirit, (as you say) created when Jesus was born?

And if it was, is it the Spirit of a man? And if it is the spirit of a man, then how can that Spirit fill millions of believers and be with us till the end of the world?

You see because I believe what Jesus said literraly…

Matt 28:20
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, *I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen*.

Also Jesus said that both he and the Father would come and make there dwelling with us…

Jn 14:23
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, *and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him*.

We have the Holy Spirit and are “in the Holy Spirit” also, but does our Spirit fill all things? Are we everywhere?

1 Cor 2:13
*For by one Spirit* are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made *to drink into one Spirit*.
Eph 2:18
For through him we both have access by *one Spirit* unto the Father.

You say…

Quote

Wait! Does your doctrine say three IN one or three ARE one.

There is “One God “in” Three persons” or Three persons “are” One God.

Is there a difference?

You say…

Quote

The Son is in the Father.  We are in the Son who is in the Father who is the Holy Spirit.

Again if the Spirit of the Son is in the Holy Spirit, how many spirits is that?

And if Jesus is a created spirit then how can millions of believers be in him and he be in them?

You say…

Quote

Yes I believe that Jesus had the Spirit without measure. Jesus was full of the GOD.  The Holy Spirit IS God.

Amen! Now we are getting somewhere! The Holy Spirit is God!

You say…

Quote

The Father and Son have the same Spirit.  There is but ONE Spirit.  Scripture says that God is that Spirit.

Now I am confused. You say “The Father and the Son have the same Spirit”, but earlier you said…

Quote

Sure I have the Spirit of the Son I wouldn't be a son of God if I didn't.  The Spirit of the Son is in the Holy Spirit they are one.

Again, this implys 2 spirits and not one.

You say…

Quote

Are their three in one OR two in one.  Jesus said He and the Father are one.  Where is number three?

The scriptures and Jesus speaks clearly of a “third person”.

Here is a few scriptures that clearly show there is “another” Person!

Lk 3:16
John answered, saying unto [them] all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: *he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire*:
(is this Holy Ghost the Father? If so, the Holy Spirit is subservient  to Jesus since Jesus is doing the baptizing!)

Lk 11:13
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall *your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him*?
(there is 2 persons mentioned here, 1. the Father who gives 2. the Holy Spirit or comforter!)

1 Thess 4:8
He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
( Again 2 persons is mentioned!)

Jn 14:16
And I will pray the Father, and *he shall give you another Comforter*, that he may abide with you for ever;
(Again, there is 2 persons here, 1. The Father and 2. “another” comforter who the Father will give)

Jn 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom *the Father will send in my name*, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
(Again, 2 persons shown here, 1. The Father and,  2. The Holy ghost whom the Father will send)

Jn 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father*, he shall testify of me:(here is the third person proceeding from the Father and testifys of Jesus)

Jn 16:15
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for *for he shall not speak of himself*; but *whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak*: and he will shew you things to come.
(This scripture is obvious that the Spirit of truth is not the Father for the Spirit here is subservient to Jesus!)

Jn 16:14
He shall glorify me: for *he shall receive of mine* and shall shew it unto you.
(Again not the Father or the Son for he takes from Jesus and gives to us)

Jn 16:15
*All things that the Father hath are mine*: therefore said I, that *he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you*
(Again this person is not Jesus nor the Father for it would make no since for the Father here would be subservient to Jesus.)

You say…

Quote

Scripture does not support the Trinity doctrine anymore than it supports the “first” day sabbath of the Harlot.

There you go with the harlot stuff again. Is this the pat an
swer when you cant answer or don’t understand? The Trinity was taught by early church Fathers long before the creeds. Listen to the words of Ignatius in an epistle to the Trallians…

“They introduce God as a Being unknown; they suppose Christ to be unbegotten; *and as to the Spirit, they do not admit that He exists*. Some of them say that *the Son is a mere man*, and that *the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are but the same person*, and that *the creation is the work of God, not by Christ*, but by some other strange power.

So the whole Trinity and harlot argument is a straw. Give it up.

You say…

Quote

Please answer my question.  What Spirit is the Holy Spirit, the Father and the Son in? It is three in one, correct? You believe the Holy Spirit is a third separate person.  Three in one correct?  Then you have to include the Holy Spirit as being IN the same Spirit that Jesus and the Father are in.

I only need to conclude what the scriptures say…

There is three persons, One God!

One Spirit, Three persons, One God!

You say…

Quote

Three in one is your doctrine NOT Father and Son in one Spirit that would be two in the ONE Spirit that scripture speaks about 1Cor. ch.12.  But your doctrine teaches that the Holy Spirit is a third separate person and part of the Trio. Three in one then would include that person with NO Name and that third person would have to be IN that Spirit BUT Scripture says there is ONE Spirit.

I Cor ch. 12 dosnt even mention the Father.

Not to mention the scriptures I have aready shown that the Holy Spirit is a third person.

Also you need the white out for this “unnamed spirit” you call him, which Jesus and the Apostles says he plainly exist.

Matt 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them *in the name of (singular) the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost*:

You say…

Quote

So I ask you again “What Spirit is the Holy Spirit in?” May God help us be one even as the Father and Son are!  Kenrch

One God, Three Persons, One Spirit.

Now the questions again?

When you recieved Christ into your heart, how many Spirits did you recieve?

Does the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit live in you?

If not please explain!

Blessings.  

[Not3in1]

WJ, is there a “Holy Spirit” thread that you could point me to easily? Thanks.

[Worshipping Jesus]

k

You might want to respond in the holy spirit thread.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 03 2007,09:53)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 03 2007,02:00) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 02 2007,22:29) Hi W, You say “Does the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit live in you?” Now you say these three Spirits make one Spirit. But the One Spirit is one of the three? Mystery Babylon!! NH You didnt answer the question! What “Spirit” lives in you then? Hi W, As soon as I can clarify from you whether the Spirit is both a person in His own right AND the one Spirit that lives in us I will be able to address the question you ask.

NH

Why are you dodging the question?

My post says it all.

I shouldnt have to clarify what you believe is in you.

Its a simple question.

What “Spirit” lives in you then?

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
When you have clarified how the Holy Spirit to you is both
a person in God
and
the one Spirit of God
then we can move on.

[Worshipping Jesus]

NH

You can dance around all you want. Fine.

But dance alone!

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
How can the Spirit of God be both the one Spirit
and another person in that one God ?
Make your mind up.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 05 2007,07:38)

Hi W, How can the Spirit of God be both the one Spirit and another person in that one God ? Make your mind up.

NH

How can the Word that was with God be God?

One Spirit. NH

Is Christ in you?

Is God in you?

Is there One Spirit called the Spirit of God, Spirit of Christ and Comforter?

Dance dance my friend but the scriptures cannot be put together without the Trinitarian view.

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
So both a person and the one Spirit?
Two roles?

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