Dreams

[TimothyVI]

Quote (Samuel @ April 12 2008,08:03)

I know a lot of the time it sounds like I'm angry when I post. Well… The truth is… That I am…I'm angry at Satan for deceving so many people.  And, Part angry at myself for not being able to get people to see the truth they need to save themselves from this mess.

Hi Samuel,
did you miss the part where no one comes to Jesus unless God drags them. don't be so hard on yourself.

Tim

[942767]

Quote (Samuel @ April 12 2008,03:12)

Stu, If you were to actually research the word “Sin” and where it came from what it really means, and was translated from you would probably find that you are indeed right. “Sin” has been morphed into some tool that people that develop their own religion weild to people to “Conform” them to their own will.  This type of people are also found in the Bible as well…they walked the Earth the same time that Jesus did…and he Rebuked them. All “Sin” actually means is to “Tresspass” in other words when you steal something from someone…you feel inside yourself that its wrong to take something that is not yours…you just know that it is not right.   We all have a “Built-In” mechanisim in us that tells us when something is not right.  We just know whats right and whats not.   And before you go off saying  “No we know whats right cause our parents taught us”…well…Who taught them? And who taught their parents…and so on, and so forth…sooner or later anyway you cut it you get down to the first man and woman…or in some peoples belief the process of evoloution took place …somewhere somehow “Man” knew what was right and was was wrong…And thus stated teaching it to our children.   Invariblely you will find a way to escape the truth and hide from the fact that there is a GOD that is responsible for all of this.  However, its not my job to give up on you…because I love you…you are a human being just like me so this is why I tell you these things.  As I've said earlier I'd love to spend eternity with you …you are a very entertaining person. Or, basicly “Sin” is a disobedience  :refusal or neglect to obey…a “Transgression” to disobey the “Law”…not Mans law…GODS Law.   This is nothing new either, Man has made their own laws since the begining, They have made for themselves Kingdoms…that always fall.  Because “Mans” Law is not where its at…Its GODS Law is where its at.   And, I know that you probably don't agree with me because you don't believe in GOD.   But contray to your current belief GOD loves every person that has every lived and ever will live…It is not in his intrest to see his creation suffer.  Which is why he made a way for it to not suffer.   I know that you don't think that due to your thoughts on the taking of life. GOD gave us all life… He can take it away… Then give it again… Then take it away again… You say your parents gave you life but they can't kill you…ok well true…somewhat. What really happend there is what grace and mercy and life and all great things that are still in the world that were given to man has been passed on down the line all the way to you and I. However, You parents even if they were to kill you …or take your life…can they give it back to you?  …no?  the answer is no they can not. This is the first death, you can kill the body but not the spirit. When you die its not over.   I know you might think that it is but its not.   There is a whole lot more stuff to take place.

Hi Samuel:

And so, you are saying that Stuart is right when he states that he has no sin?

[942767]

Hi Stu:

You ask:

God has done and is doing what he can to alleviate suffering.  He has given us Jesus His only begotten Son  

…to be crucified no less.  How does that materially alleviate suffering?

And I say:

I thought I have you the answer to this question in the following passage.

God has done and is doing what he can to alleviate suffering.  He has given us Jesus His only begotten Son so that whosoever will choose to be reconciled to Him may do so and have all of their sins forgiven, and then as the Father of our spirit, he can teach us Godly principles by which we should live our lives to prevent some of this suffering that we have to bear ourselves and also the suffering of others.  This world is temporary so that a man can exercise his free will as to whether or not he wants to be reconciled to God.  We are called into a relationship with Him,  Those who come to Him and learn to obey his principles will live in His house forever with a body that will not deteriorate as does that body that we have now.  There will be no more suffering in the world to come.

The principle of crucifixtion is that of denying oneself the “so called pleasures of this world” in favor of using ones talents and possessions in sharing the gospel message with those who will hear and by so doing helping them to come out of a lifestyle which is destructive to themselves.  I mentioned homosexuality, but no, not only that lifestyle.  Sin which is the transgression of God's eternal law which is the Ten Commandments is detrimental to oneself and to others.  As Christians, we are to love our neighbor as ourselves which means also helping those who have physical needs if we are able.

Nevertheless, the body that we have now detiorates, how fast depending upon how one takes care of it, and death is a reality, but in the world to come we are promised a spiritual body and there will be no more suffering.

You say:

so that whosoever will choose to be reconciled to Him may do so and have all of their sins forgiven,

I am without sin, so that does not help my suffering.  (I am lucky that I have very little suffering, if any).

And I say:

You must be in a class all by yourself.  I am glad that you have very little suffering, if any.

No, I am not saying vereral diseases are exclusive to homsexuals, and homosexuality is not the only lifestyle that is considered sin by God either.

As Christians our commission from our Lord is to go and share the gospel (which is good news) with whomever will hear and not to go and persecute homosexuals or any so called sinners.

I am sorry Stu, but God is not that monstor in sky that profess Him to be through misunderstanding because of the events that you see in the OT.  Jesus is the express image of God's person.  Through the sacrificial life that Jesus lived, he has shown us God's character and love for us.

[Stu]

Thanks Samuel, food for thought!

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If you were to actually research the word “Sin” and where it came from what it really means, and was translated from you would probably find that you are indeed right.

You prompted me to do what I should have done earlier. I looked up sin in my concise Oxford dictionary and it says sin is the conscious breaking of divine or moral law, or an offense against good taste or propriety. I have probably offended against good taste here at least once or twice but it is the divine or moral law breaking part that I refer to when I say I am without sin. I don’t believe there are divine laws and we don’t have such things as moral laws except in the way you refer to below. Ethics should be based on principle, which means being able to reason them out in terms of other principles, such as reducing suffering or increasing happiness, if that is what your internal moral sense tells you is right.

Quote

“Sin” has been morphed into some tool that people that develop their own religion weild to people to “Conform” them to their own will. This type of people are also found in the Bible as well…they walked the Earth the same time that Jesus did…and he Rebuked them. All “Sin” actually means is to “Tresspass” in other words when you steal something from someone…you feel inside yourself that its wrong to take something that is not yours…you just know that it is not right. We all have a “Built-In” mechanisim in us that tells us when something is not right. We just know whats right and whats not. And before you go off saying “No we know whats right cause our parents taught us”…well…Who taught them? And who taught their parents…and so on, and so forth…sooner or later anyway you cut it you get down to the first man and woman…or in some peoples belief the process of evoloution took place …somewhere somehow “Man” knew what was right and was was wrong…And thus stated teaching it to our children. Invariblely you will find a way to escape the truth and hide from the fact that there is a GOD that is responsible for all of this.

Well I think we agree that there is an ‘inbuilt’ source of morality. You can attribute that to god and, like with the fossil record, there is no way to disprove that is was planted in us by a god, but there is another explanation too. If there was an Adam and Eve that begat all humanity a few thousand years ago (which is not possible biologically) then your model would be a reasonable one. The principle must be though that both genetics and culture together produce ethical behaviour in humans simply because it ensures our success as a species. If it didn’t, we wouldn’t be here. I know that is a patsy answer, and not the best way of articulating the evolutionary history of ethics, but it would be possible to write a trilogy on the subject, something I will not pretend to tackle here!

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Or, basicly “Sin” is a disobedience :refusal or neglect to obey…a “Transgression” to disobey the “Law”…not Mans law…GODS Law. This is nothing new either, Man has made their own laws since the begining, They have made for themselves Kingdoms…that always fall. Because “Mans” Law is not where its at…Its GODS Law is where its at. And, I know that you probably don't agree with me because you don't believe in GOD. But contray to your current belief GOD loves every person that has every lived and ever will live…It is not in his intrest to see his creation suffer. Which is why he made a way for it to not suffer. I know that you don't think that due to your thoughts on the taking of life.

I think it is an interesting question when considering an ethical question to ask not ‘What will god do to me?’, but ‘What would god do?’. God’s responses (as recorded in scripture) are often what humans would tend to do. That is why I think there are ‘Atheists for Jesus’, because so often Jesus (as in the supposed transcription of the Sermon on the Mount, for a good example) is articulating ethics that are more radical in their advancement than either Paul or god.

Might we be agreeing that just as the laws agreed by a secular government should be based on a discussion of principles, so the bible should be judged by our own inbuilt ethics? After all if god did create our brains he must have given us the ability to think ethically as we do – we should be in a position to judge scripture by our god-given talents!

Stuart

[Stu]

Hi 942767

Quote

This world is temporary so that a man can exercise his free will as to whether or not he wants to be reconciled to God.

I do not want to be reconciled with a mass murderer. If he asked my forgiveness I might consider it, on behalf of all those fellow humans he slaughtered. What if I do that? Am I then condemned by him for using the ethical brain he gave me, and following to the letter his commandments in my judging of him?

Quote

We are called into a relationship with Him, Those who come to Him and learn to obey his principles will live in His house forever with a body that will not deteriorate as does that body that we have now. There will be no more suffering in the world to come.

Who calls another into a relationship? Is it not a mutual thing? Or does this god obsess? I have little suffering now, why should I need that alleviated? What evidence is there that there is no suffering in the ‘world to come’. As far as we can tell there is no ‘world to come’. You don’t know any better than I do!

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The principle of crucifixtion is that of denying oneself the “so called pleasures of this world” in favor of using ones talents and possessions in sharing the gospel message with those who will hear and by so doing helping them to come out of a lifestyle which is destructive to themselves. I mentioned homosexuality, but no, not only that lifestyle.

But you haven’t said how homosexuality is destructive! Tell me what is wrong with two people of the same sex committing to a lifelong loving relationship.
If crucifixion is symbolic in the way you describe, I suppose it would not actually matter whether Jesus existed, or whether or not he was actually put to death by the Romans.

Quote

Sin which is the transgression of God's eternal law which is the Ten Commandments is detrimental to oneself and to others. As Christians, we are to love our neighbor as ourselves which means also helping those who have physical needs if we are able.

Apart from looking a bit silly, how is it detrimental to worship idols, or have other gods?

Quote

Nevertheless, the body that we have now detiorates, how fast depending upon how one takes care of it, and death is a reality, but in the world to come we are promised a spiritual body and there will be no more suffering.

That promise is not able to be verified.

Quote

No, I am not saying vereral diseases are exclusive to homsexuals, and homosexuality is not the only lifestyle that is considered sin by God either. As Christians our commission from our Lord is to go and share the gospel (which is good news) with whomever will hear and not to go and persecute homosexuals or any so called sinners.

But that self-same gospel records its main character as saying it is all good to teach (or at least Paul says he does in 2 Timothy), and that includes condemning homosexuals to death. If that is not persecution, and bad news, then I don’t know what is. Sir Ian McKellen famously rips Leviticus out of the Gideon bible in any hotel room he stays in because of its brutal treatment of homosexuality. I think you must have done the same in your own mind at least. Is it all good to teach, or was Jesus wrong, or did Paul lie?

Why did you mention AIDs?

Quote

I am sorry Stu, but God is not that monstor in sky that profess Him to be through misunderstanding because of the events that you see in the OT. Jesus is the express image of God's person. Through the sacrificial life that Jesus lived, he has shown us God's character and love for us.

How do you misinterpret Leviticus 24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death.?
You should be calling for others to find me and stone me, in order to show me god’s love, shouldn’t you?

Stuart

[Not3in1]

Can you imagine dying by being stoned to death? My goodness. It may take a while for the big one to hit you cold in the head! Ouch!

[942767]

Quote (Stu @ April 12 2008,11:22)

Hi 942767 Quote This world is temporary so that a man can exercise his free will as to whether or not he wants to be reconciled to God. I do not want to be reconciled with a mass murderer.  If he asked my forgiveness I might consider it, on behalf of all those fellow humans he slaughtered.  What if I do that?  Am I then condemned by him for using the ethical brain he gave me, and following to the letter his commandments in my judging of him? Quote We are called into a relationship with Him, Those who come to Him and learn to obey his principles will live in His house forever with a body that will not deteriorate as does that body that we have now. There will be no more suffering in the world to come. Who calls another into a relationship?  Is it not a mutual thing?  Or does this god obsess?  I have little suffering now, why should I need that alleviated?  What evidence is there that there is no suffering in the ‘world to come’. As far as we can tell there is no ‘world to come’.  You don’t know any better than I do! Quote The principle of crucifixtion is that of denying oneself the “so called pleasures of this world” in favor of using ones talents and possessions in sharing the gospel message with those who will hear and by so doing helping them to come out of a lifestyle which is destructive to themselves. I mentioned homosexuality, but no, not only that lifestyle. But you haven’t said how homosexuality is destructive!  Tell me what is wrong with two people of the same sex committing to a lifelong loving relationship.   If crucifixion is symbolic in the way you describe, I suppose it would not actually matter whether Jesus existed, or whether or not he was actually put to death by the Romans. Quote Sin which is the transgression of God's eternal law which is the Ten Commandments is detrimental to oneself and to others. As Christians, we are to love our neighbor as ourselves which means also helping those who have physical needs if we are able. Apart from looking a bit silly, how is it detrimental to worship idols, or have other gods? Quote Nevertheless, the body that we have now detiorates, how fast depending upon how one takes care of it, and death is a reality, but in the world to come we are promised a spiritual body and there will be no more suffering. That promise is not able to be verified. Quote No, I am not saying vereral diseases are exclusive to homsexuals, and homosexuality is not the only lifestyle that is considered sin by God either.  As Christians our commission from our Lord is to go and share the gospel (which is good news) with whomever will hear and not to go and persecute homosexuals or any so called sinners. But that self-same gospel records its main character as saying it is all good to teach (or at least Paul says he does in 2 Timothy), and that includes condemning homosexuals to death.  If that is not persecution, and bad news, then I don’t know what is.  Sir Ian McKellen famously rips Leviticus out of the Gideon bible in any hotel room he stays in because of its brutal treatment of homosexuality.  I think you must have done the same in your own mind at least.  Is it all good to teach, or was Jesus wrong, or did Paul lie? Why did you mention AIDs? Quote I am sorry Stu, but God is not that monstor in sky that profess Him to be through misunderstanding because of the events that you see in the OT. Jesus is the express image of God's person. Through the sacrificial life that Jesus lived, he has shown us God's character and love for us. How do you misinterpret Leviticus 24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death.? You should be calling for others to find me and stone me, in order to show me god’s love, shouldn’t you? Stuart

Hi Stu:

You say:

Quote

I do not want to be reconciled with a mass murderer. If he asked my forgiveness I might consider it, on behalf of all those fellow humans he slaughtered. What if I do that? Am I then condemned by him for using the ethical brain he gave me, and following to the letter his commandments in my judging of him?

Well, if you don't want to be reconciled to God, you don't have to that is what is meant by “free will”. He doesn't have to ask you for forgiveness, and what you see as mass murder is the judgment he rendered on the wicked. Your are condemned because you do not believe what He has done for you in the person of His Son and His Christ, Jesus.

You say:

Quote

Who calls another into a relationship? Is it not a mutual thing? Or does this god obsess? I have little suffering now, why should I need that alleviated? What evidence is there that there is no suffering in the ‘world to come’. As far as we can tell there is no ‘world to come’. You don’t know any better than I do!

Yes, a relationship is a mutual thing, but in order to have a relationship with someone you must know that individual, and He knows you but you do not know Him. As far as you can tell, there is no world to come because you are walking in darkness not knowing that God is a reality, but OH YES, I DO KNOW BETTER THAN YOU because through many personal experiences I know that God is a reality and that His testimony regarding His Son and His Christ is true.

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Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

You say:

Quote

But you haven’t said how homosexuality is destructive! Tell me what is wrong with two people of the same sex committing to a lifelong loving relationship.

Perhaps, I need to study the subject of how homosexuality is destructive. I did mention AIDs and other venereal diseases which may be associated with this lifestyle, but I suppose there is that so called “safe sex” that with precaution those who have this lifestyle may escape these diseases.

What you may see as a lifelong loving relationship between people of the same sex is seen as sexual perversion by God.

You say:

Quote

If crucifixion is symbolic in the way you describe, I suppose it would not actually matter whether Jesus existed, or whether or not he was actually put to death by the Romans.

Oh no, his crucifixion is not symbolic it is literal. We as born again believers are in union with him in his death, burial and resurrection.

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Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

You ask:

Quote

Apart from looking a bit silly, how is it detrimental to worship idols, or have other gods? Quote Nevertheless, the It depends what is associated with the worship of that god. Relative to that stated below: Quote Nevertheless, the body that we have now detiorates, how fast depending upon how one takes care of it, and death is a reality, but in the world to come we are promised a spiritual body and there will be no more suffering. That promise is not able to be verified.

I know that it is true because of the Spirit of God dwelling with me testifies to the fact that Jesus has been raised again from the dead and is at the right hand of God with a body that will never die.

Relative to that stated below:

Quote

Quote No, I am not saying vereral diseases are exclusive to homsexuals, and homosexuality is not the only lifestyle that is considered sin by God either. As Christians our commission from our Lord is to go and share the gospel (which is good news) with whomever will hear and not to go and persecute homosexuals or any so called sinners. But that self-same gospel records its main character as saying it is all good to teach (or at least Paul says he does in 2 Timothy), and that includes condemning homosexuals to death. If that is not persecution, and bad news, then I don’t know what is. Sir Ian McKellen famously rips Leviticus out of the Gideon bible in any hotel room he stays in because of its brutal treatment of homosexuality. I think you must have done the same in your own mind at least. Is it all good to teach, or was Jesus wrong, or did Paul lie?

I have already stated that God considers homosexuality sexual perversion and therefore, sin. The good news is that any sinner, and all of us have sinned, can repent and come to God through Jesus Christ and have their sins forgiven.

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1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 1Cr 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

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Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

You say:

Quote

How do you misinterpret Leviticus 24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death.? You should be calling for others to find me and stone me, in order to show me god’s love, shouldn’t you?

Under the OT Law those who of the Nation of Israel who continued to sin in defiance to God's law were stoned to death by the people of the Nation and that was the penalty for blasphemy, but the penalty for what you are doing will be more severe that this stoning if you choose to continue in defiance of God. My love for you is shown to you by sharing the gospel with you and also warning you that there will be a day of judgment for those who persist in evil.

Quote

Jhn 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. Jhn 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

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Hbr 10:26 ¶ For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, Hbr 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversar ies. Hbr 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Hbr 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? Hbr 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. Hbr 10:31 [It is] a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

[Stu]

Hi 942767

Quote

Well, if you don't want to be reconciled to God, you don't have to that is what is meant by “free will”. He doesn't have to ask you for forgiveness, and what you see as mass murder is the judgment he rendered on the wicked. Your are condemned because you do not believe what He has done for you in the person of His Son and His Christ, Jesus.

In that case I condemn him. In my estimation he deserves to roast in the worst hell my imagination can produce. Actually I don’t share his miserable and murderous attitude so I retract that. Of course his non-existence, and the fact that is was humans killing other humans and attributing it to their imaginary murderer in the sky does somewhat make it academic. Not even academic.

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Yes, a relationship is a mutual thing, but in order to have a relationship with someone you must know that individual, and He knows you but you do not know Him.

So why do people falsely claim to have a relationship with god then?

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As far as you can tell, there is no world to come because you are walking in darkness not knowing that God is a reality, but OH YES, I DO KNOW BETTER THAN YOU because through many personal experiences I know that God is a reality and that His testimony regarding His Son and His Christ is true.

I reassert that you do not have any capacity for knowing things that I don’t. You may even be in the worse position of not being aware of the illusion you accept as fact. I may be wrong but you may be wrong. If you accept Nick’s nonsense about doubt, then you are lost in uncertainty of which you are ignorant. You expect me to have doubt when you have none. That is not convincing.

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Perhaps, I need to study the subject of how homosexuality is destructive. I did mention AIDs and other venereal diseases which may be associated with this lifestyle, but I suppose there is that so called “safe sex” that with precaution those who have this lifestyle may escape these diseases. What you may see as a lifelong loving relationship between people of the same sex is seen as sexual perversion by God.

We have discussed the fact that HIV does not exclusively infect homosexuals. I await your cogent reasoned argument for the destructiveness of homosexuality.

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Oh no, his crucifixion is not symbolic it is literal. We as born again believers are in union with him in his death, burial and resurrection.

You cannot know that is true. Paul wrote about his alleged crucifixion but did not mention a single miracle. Who is to be believed? You?

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I know that it is true because of the Spirit of God dwelling with me testifies to the fact that Jesus has been raised again from the dead and is at the right hand of God with a body that will never die.

Tell me about that spirit of god that dwells within you. Consider the huge number of bible-belters who are convinced they have been abducted by aliens and then convince me that it is not a delusion you are under. Your standard of verification here applied to medical trials would not be good enough for me to take a sugar pill, let alone an antibiotic. If it is so right, it should be very convincing.

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I have already stated that God considers homosexuality sexual perversion and therefore, sin. The good news is that any sinner, and all of us have sinned, can repent and come to God through Jesus Christ and have their sins forgiven.

See above. No reasons. Plenty of reasons to oppose this mythology though.

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Under the OT Law those who of the Nation of Israel who continued to sin in defiance to God's law were stoned to death by the people of the Nation and that was the penalty for blasphemy, but the penalty for what you are doing will be more severe that this stoning if you choose to continue in defiance of God. My love for you is shown to you by sharing the gospel with you and also warning you that there will be a day of judgment for those who persist in evil.

Is that another threat on behalf of your brutal friend? Gee he certainly is a charmer!

Stuart

[NickHassan]

Hi,
So who has dreams to share as that is the subject of this thread.

[942767]

Quote (Stu @ April 13 2008,11:26)

Hi 942767 Quote Well, if you don't want to be reconciled to God, you don't have to that is what is meant by “free will”. He doesn't have to ask you for forgiveness, and what you see as mass murder is the judgment he rendered on the wicked. Your are condemned because you do not believe what He has done for you in the person of His Son and His Christ, Jesus. In that case I condemn him. In my estimation he deserves to roast in the worst hell my imagination can produce.  Actually I don’t share his miserable and murderous attitude so I retract that.  Of course his non-existence, and the fact that is was humans killing other humans and attributing it to their imaginary murderer in the sky does somewhat make it academic.  Not even academic. Quote Yes, a relationship is a mutual thing, but in order to have a relationship with someone you must know that individual, and He knows you but you do not know Him. So why do people falsely claim to have a relationship with god then? Quote As far as you can tell, there is no world to come because you are walking in darkness not knowing that God is a reality, but OH YES, I DO KNOW BETTER THAN YOU because through many personal experiences I know that God is a reality and that His testimony regarding His Son and His Christ is true. I reassert that you do not have any capacity for knowing things that I don’t.  You may even be in the worse position of not being aware of the illusion you accept as fact.  I may be wrong but you may be wrong.  If you accept Nick’s nonsense about doubt, then you are lost in uncertainty of which you are ignorant.  You expect me to have doubt when you have none.  That is not convincing. Quote Perhaps, I need to study the subject of how homosexuality is destructive. I did mention AIDs and other venereal diseases which may be associated with this lifestyle, but I suppose there is that so called “safe sex” that with precaution those who have this lifestyle may escape these diseases.  What you may see as a lifelong loving relationship between people of the same sex is seen as sexual perversion by God. We have discussed the fact that HIV does not exclusively infect homosexuals.  I await your cogent reasoned argument for the destructiveness of homosexuality. Quote Oh no, his crucifixion is not symbolic it is literal. We as born again believers are in union with him in his death, burial and resurrection. You cannot know that is true.  Paul wrote about his alleged crucifixion but did not mention a single miracle.  Who is to be believed?  You? Quote I know that it is true because of the Spirit of God dwelling with me testifies to the fact that Jesus has been raised again from the dead and is at the right hand of God with a body that will never die. Tell me about that spirit of god that dwells within you.  Consider the huge number of bible-belters who are convinced they have been abducted by aliens and then convince me that it is not  a delusion you are under.  Your standard of verification here applied to medical trials would not be good enough for me to take a sugar pill, let alone an antibiotic.  If it is so right, it should be very convincing. Quote I have already stated that God considers homosexuality sexual perversion and therefore, sin. The good news is that any sinner, and all of us have sinned, can repent and come to God through Jesus Christ and have their sins forgiven. See above.  No reasons.  Plenty of reasons to oppose this mythology though. Quote Under the OT Law those who of the Nation of Israel who continued to sin in defiance to God's law were stoned to death by the people of the Nation and that was the penalty for blasphemy, but the penalty for what you are doing will be more severe that this stoning if you choose to continue in defiance of God. My love for you is shown to you by sharing the gospel with you and also warning you that there will be a day of judgment for those who persist in evil. Is that another threat on behalf of your brutal friend?  Gee he certainly is a charmer! Stuart

Hi Stu:

Suite yourself. End of converstion.

[Samuel]

Hey Stu,

Buddy…

It's ok man, I don't expect you to just believe what someone says by now. I have learned from you that you are a person that needs to have all the facts…You most of the time look at “Face Value” Facts. In order for you to believe something you need to have it all laid out in a very descriptive fashion…as to explain the “Truth” that one might be trying to get you to believe.

To be honest…

I can't do that for you. I just can't. I can't “Prove” anything for you. I do not have all the facts about GOD. I know what I think he wants me to know at this time. Most of which I have shared with you thus far.

He can “Prove” himself to you though. And that might come sooner rather than later. Or, it might come later rather than sooner.

But I can assure you just as sure as I'm breathing to type this reply …that day will come.

Now…I can also tell you some more “Gospel”…Or “Good News” as it were…

So, long as you have not just come flat out to the conclusion that GOD does not exist …if you think there may just be the slight possibility in you mind that he does…there is still a whole lot of hope for you. There is actually still a whole lot of hope for you even if that is the case. So…don't get down in the pits Just keep searching for the TRUTH!

GODBLESS you brother!

[942767]

Quote

Thus Saith the LORD: Eze 3:18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked [man] shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Eze 18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: [and] not that he should return from his ways, and live?

[kejonn]

94,

Note that Jesus is not mentioned in the above verses.

Can you define “wicked”?

[942767]

Jhn 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Jhn 3:17  For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

This is how I define wicked:

Jhn 3:18  He that believeth on him is not condemned: BUT HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT IS CONDEMNED ALREADY, BECAUSE HE HATH NOT BELIEVED IN THE NAME OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD.
Jhn 3:19  AND THIS IS THE CONDEMNATION, THAT LIGHT IS COME INTO THE WORLD, AND MEN LOVED DARKNESS RATHER THAN LIGHT, BECAUSE THEIR DEED WERE EVIL.
Jhn 3:20  For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT GOD HATH MADE HIM A LIAR; BECAUSE HE BELIEVETH NOT THE RECORD THAT GOD GAVE HIS SON.

And blaspheming God and then making jokes about it, and destroying the faith of those who are not grounded in the faith by teaching them contrary to what the Lord Jesus has taught them.

[Cato]

To be honest many of us consider it blasphemy to say the God condoned and ordered the death of infants, is capable of mistake, has regrets, is jealous.  The Bible says these things, but my heart and mind both say they are false.  How could a being with all the power and all the knowledge of creation, be jealous of anything or make mistakes?  It is foolish in the exteme, yet you believe such, tell me who is truly being deceived?

[TimothyVI]

Quote (942767 @ April 14 2008,05:53)

and destroying the faith of those who are not grounded in the faith by teaching them contrary to what the Lord Jesus has taught them.

Faith must be a very fragile thing if it can be destroyed by someone merely expressing a difference of opinion.

Tim

[seek and you will find]

Eternal Life is a free gift from God through the believe in Jesus Christ. Can Faith be destroyed, Oh yes. If your faith in Jesus Christ is weak and as trial comes along you could run out of Oil. So make sure you always have enough of that oil on hand.
Peace and Love Mrs.

[942767]

Quote (TimothyVI @ April 14 2008,08:25)

Quote (942767 @ April 14 2008,05:53) and destroying the faith of those who are not grounded in the faith by teaching them contrary to what the Lord Jesus has taught them. Faith must be a very fragile thing if it can be destroyed by someone merely expressing a difference of opinion. Tim

Quote

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

[942767]

Quote (Cato @ April 14 2008,08:24)

To be honest many of us consider it blasphemy to say the God condoned and ordered the death of infants, is capable of mistake, has regrets, is jealous.  The Bible says these things, but my heart and mind both say they are false.  How could a being with all the power and all the knowledge of creation, be jealous of anything or make mistakes?  It is foolish in the exteme, yet you believe such, tell me who is truly being deceived?

Then you don't believe that the bible is the Word of God, and I happen to believe that it is, and though I value your opinion, it is what God thinks of me that ultimately matters.

Have you been born again?

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
It seems there are now crowds jostling to walk out of the safety of faith into blasphemy.
Will there be faith on earth when Jesus returns?

[Author]

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