Does god procreate?

[JustAskin]

Mike,
You ask me to show you where you posted unscripturally.

When I read it I laughed… And you need to be careful how you expose what you expose about yourself.

It is clear now, not that it was not already clear to me, that you are wanting to make yourself your own God. You are mimicking your brother, you should not have told us that. It was frustration that made you do that. Say it to someone n a pm but not in open forum.

You cannot bear to lose an argument but you are struggling to be better than your brother. He taught you a lesson and aim to benefit from that lesson but you slide into his ways when you need be defensive. A fallback, always useful, eh?

Ok, back to 'unscriptural'. Mike, the whole of the forum speaks of your unscriptural posting. Or at least, you cannot post 'scripturally enough' to lock your point home. I have warned you about this how many times.
Mike, you gnna ask, 'one single point', hey flatter JustAskin by copying him… But see here, who responded when JustAskin asked? Not One Person, Ever?
Yet you ask, and one will, in fact ask it of another and they too will respond.

Mike, you may call me cynic
But be careful who you mimick.
And take this guidance from JA
Be mindful what about yourself you say,
It may not be anti-decorum
But it certain ain't wise in an Internet Forum.

[shimmer]

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 29 2010,13:58)

Quote (shimmer @ Sep. 28 2010,23:43) Mike, theres nothing at all wrong with delving into scripture, But Mike, if a few people here agree with you that doesnt prove it as truth,  theres a whole world, millions of people, If it was a conversation where others could join in, fine, isn't that what forums are for ? Why do you think theres people reading here but only speaking now and then ? Theres a reason for that, and you should ask – why ? BTW the original word wasnt knowledge, Young's Literal Translation And this is the life age-during, that they may know Thee, the only true God, and him whom Thou didst send — Jesus Christ; shimmer i agree with you there in nothing wrong with delving in scriptures BUT BE CAREFULL WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR. pierre

Terrarica, also be carefull what we read here, how do you think the Early church fell into apostacy ?

Through mixing and debating.

[shimmer]

The only ones who believe God procreated another equal god are Mormans, what is spoken of here is mormanism.

[terraricca]

Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 03 2010,15:55)

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 29 2010,13:58) Quote (shimmer @ Sep. 28 2010,23:43) Mike, theres nothing at all wrong with delving into scripture, But Mike, if a few people here agree with you that doesnt prove it as truth,  theres a whole world, millions of people, If it was a conversation where others could join in, fine, isn't that what forums are for ? Why do you think theres people reading here but only speaking now and then ? Theres a reason for that, and you should ask – why ? BTW the original word wasnt knowledge, Young's Literal Translation And this is the life age-during, that they may know Thee, the only true God, and him whom Thou didst send — Jesus Christ; shimmer i agree with you there in nothing wrong with delving in scriptures BUT BE CAREFULL WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR. pierre Terrarica, also be carefull what we read here, how do you think the Early church fell into apostacy ? Through mixing and debating.

hi shimmer
yeah,i remember i had a visit of Mormons one day they came in with the bible and quickly pull their book out from Joseph smith,then i show them the door.

if it is for the truth you are looking for then you have to do your work.and not letting someone else do it for you ,there would be a cost on this you would believe men in stead of God words.

and you right some here are out of truth and talk about useless knowledge.
Pierre

[JustAskin]

Hey,
Nice to see some agreement going on in this forum…and between two of my favoured posters, nice.

[Lightenup]

Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 02 2010,17:45)

The only ones who believe God procreated another equal god are Mormans, what is spoken of here is mormanism.

Actually Shimmer…that is not true at all. We must be careful what we write and the accusations made.

[Lightenup]

Quote (JustAskin @ Oct. 02 2010,19:04)

Hey, Nice to see some agreement going on in this forum…and between two of my favoured posters, nice.

Many agree in error and then some find their way to truth. Narrow is the path but few find it.

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 03 2010,19:26)

Quote (JustAskin @ Oct. 02 2010,19:04) Hey, Nice to see some agreement going on in this forum…and between two of my favoured posters, nice. Many agree in error and then some find their way to truth.  Narrow is the path but few find it.

Kathy

why is ? ;; Narrow is the path but few find it.
why few find it?

Pierre

did God pro-create or create ??

[terraricca]

kathy

Celestial marriage (also called the New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage and Eternal Marriage) is a doctrine unique to Mormonism, particularly The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) and branches of Mormon fundamentalism.

Within Mormonism, celestial marriage is an ordinance associated with a covenant that always takes place inside temples by those authorized to hold the sealing power. The only people allowed to enter the temple, be married there, or simply attend these weddings are those who hold an official temple recommend. Obtaining a temple recommend requires one to abide by LDS doctrine and confess any major sins to one's bishop. They must then be deemed worthy by the bishop. A prerequisite to contracting a celestial marriage, in addition to obtaining a temple recommend, involves undergoing the temple endowment, which involves making of certain covenants with God. In particular, one is expected to promise to be obedient to all the Lord's commandments including living a clean chaste life, abstaining oneself from any impure thing , willing to sacrifice and consecrate all that one has for the Lord. This promise of consecration to the LDS church is often interpreted figuratively.[citation needed] In the marriage ceremony a man and a woman make covenants to God and to each other and are said to be sealed as husband and wife for time and all eternity. The Latter-Day Saint distinguishes itself on this point, citing Matthew 16:19 and 18:18, from some other religious traditions by emphasizing that marriage relationships and covenants made in this life in the Temple will continue to be valid in the next life if they abide by these covenants.

In the 19th century the term celestial marriage sometimes referred to the practice of plural marriage, a practice which the LDS Church abandoned in 1890. The term is still used in this sense by Mormon fundamentalists not affiliated with the mainstream LDS Church.[citation needed]

In the current LDS Church, both men and women may enter a celestial marriage with only one partner at a time. A man may be sealed to more than one woman; if his wife dies, however, he may enter another celestial marriage, and be sealed to both his living wife and deceased wife or wives. Many Mormons believe that all these marriages will be valid in the eternities and the husband will live together in the afterlife as a family with all to whom he was sealed.[citation needed] On page 72 of the 1998 edition of the Church Handbook of Instructions, the LDS Church clarified that a woman may also be sealed to more than one man. A woman, however, may not be sealed to more than one man while she is alive. She may only be sealed to subsequent partners after she has died.[1] Proxy sealings, like proxy baptisms, are merely offered to the person in the afterlife,[citation needed] indicating that the purpose is to allow the woman to choose the right man to be sealed to, as LDS doctrine forbids polyandry.[citation needed] According to LDS belief, the celestial marriage covenant, as with other covenants, requires the continued righteousness of the couple to remain in effect after this life. If only one remains righteous that person is promised a righteous eternal companion in eternity.[citation

Baptism for the dead, vicarious baptism or proxy baptism is the religious practice of baptizing a living person on behalf of an individual who is dead; the living person is acting as the deceased person's proxy. Those who practice this religious rite place great importance upon baptism and view it as a requirement to enter the Kingdom of God. So it is with this practice, an individual is baptized to give those who have already died without the opportunity to receive baptism the opportunity to receive it by proxy if they wish. It has been practiced since 1840 in the Latter Day Saint movement. The practice continues in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, where it is performed only in dedicated temples. Baptism for the dead is also practiced by several other current groups in the Latter Day Saint movement.

Advocates of this practice believe it is referred to in The New Testament in 1 Corinthians 15:29. The practice was forbidden by the Catholic Church in the 4th century[citation needed] as an aberrant practice of heretical groups, and is not practiced in modern mainstream Christianity, whether Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, or Protestant.

LDS Church doctrine

Baptismal font in the Salt Lake Temple, circa 1912, where baptisms for the dead are performed by proxy. The font rests on the backs of twelve oxen representing the Twelve Tribes of IsraelMembers of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe that baptism is a prerequisite for entry into the kingdom of God as stated by Jesus in John 3:5: “Except that a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God” (KJV).

The LDS Church teaches that performing baptisms for the dead allows this saving ordinance to be offered to those who have died without accepting or knowing Jesus Christ or his teachings during their mortal lives. It is taught that this is the method by which all who have lived upon the earth will have the opportunity to receive baptism and to thereby enter the Kingdom of God. This concept is similar to but more specific than the idea of Anonymous Christians, posed by Karl Rahner.

The LDS Church teaches that those in the afterlife who have been baptized by proxy are free to accept or reject the ordinance done on their behalf. Baptism on behalf of a deceased individual is not binding if that individual chooses to reject it in the afterlife.[17][18]

Any member of the LDS church, male or female, who is at least 12 years old and holds a current temple recommend may act as a proxy in this ordinance. Men must also hold the Aaronic Priesthood prior to entering the temple. A man must act as proxy for a deceased man, and a woman must act as proxy for a deceased woman. The concept of a spiritual proxy is compared by some in the LDS Church to the belief that Jesus acted as proxy for every human when he atoned for the sins of the world.[19]

Only an adult male holder of the Melchizedek priesthood who has undergone the Endowment ordinance may baptize others as proxies for the dead.

this is some info on Mormons or LDS

Pierre

[shimmer]

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 03 2010,13:24)

Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 02 2010,17:45) The only ones who believe God procreated another equal god are Mormans, what is spoken of here is mormanism. Actually Shimmer…that is not true at all.  We must be careful what we write and the accusations made.

But this all sounds familiar,

Taken from here

http://www.evidenceandanswers.org/article….sus.pdf

Jesus a Procreated Being?

The Mormon Church claims to have restored the true teachings of Jesus. In this article, we will compare
the Mormon doctrine of Jesus to the New Testament.

Mormonism teaches that Jesus is a procreated being, the literal offspring of God the Father and one of His
heavenly wives. According to Mormon theology, God the Father, Elohim, dwells on a planet with His
many spirit wives producing numerous spirit children who await to inhabit physical bodies so that they
too may one day ascend to godhood as their parents did. Jesus is believed to be the firstborn spirit child of
Elohim. The Doctrine and Covenants, one of the four sacred books of Mormonism states, “Christ, the
Firstborn, was the mightiest of all the spirit children of the Father.”{1}1 The Gospel Principles, which is
the manual of the Mormon Church, states, “The first spirit born to our heavenly parents was Jesus
Christ.”{2}2 James Talmage, one of the early apostles of the church wrote, “[A]mong the spirit-children
of Elohim, the firstborn was and is Jehovah or Jesus Christ to whom all others are juniors.”{3}3

Mormon doctrine deviates significantly from the Bible, which teaches that Jesus is eternal and not
procreated. Although Mormons teach that Jesus is eternal, what they mean is that He existed as a spirit
child prior to His incarnation. Being an offspring of Elohim means He was created at some point in time.

To support their view, Mormons appeal to John 3:16, which states Jesus is the “only begotten.” The Greek
word used there is monogenes, which means “unique” or “one of a kind.” It does not mean procreated, but
emphasizes uniqueness.

Mormons also appeal to Colossians 1:15, which calls Christ the “Firstborn over all creation.”
The Greek word for firstborn is prototokos, meaning “first in rank, preeminent one.”
It carries the idea of positional supremacy. Christ is the firstborn in the sense that He is preeminent over all creation.

Renowned Greek scholar, the late F.F. Bruce, wrote on how the term was used duringthe time in which Paul wrote.
“The word firstborn had long since ceased to be used exclusively in its literal sense, just as prime (from the Latin word primus–first) with us.
The Prime Minister is not the first minister we have had; he is the most preeminent. . . . Similarly, firstborn came to denote (among the
ancients) not priority in time but preeminence in rank.”{6}6 Psalm 89:27 in the Septuagint calls David the
firstborn. We all know David is not the first-born son in his family, nor is he the first king of Israel.
Firstborn here is a title of preeminence. These Bible verses do not support the teaching that Jesus is a procreated being.

Colossians 1:17 states, “He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.”
Christ as the eternal Son of God existed before all creation. Since Christ is “before all things,” He did not depend on anyone or
anything for His creation or existence.

John 1:1 shows Jesus is eternal and has no beginning. John wrote, “In the beginning was the word.”
Scripture indicates that the universe was not created in time, but that time itself was created along with
the universe.{7}7 In other words, time was not already in existence when God created the world. The
world was created with time rather than in time. Back before the beginning mentioned in Genesis 1:1 and
John 1:1 lay a beginningless eternity.{8}8 The verb was is in the imperfect tense indicating continued
existence.

So Jesus did not come into existence at some point in eternity past, He always existed. There
has never been a point where He was not in existence.
In John 8:58 Jesus tells the religious leaders, “Before Abraham was born, I am.” Jesus is identifying
Himself as the eternal God quoting the words from Exodus 3:14. For this reason the Jews were seeking to
stone Him for the crime of blasphemy. The words “I am” or “Yahweh” in the Hebrew language is the
verb, to be. This name conveys the meaning of eternal self-existence. Yahweh, whom Jesus is identifying
with, is eternal and beyond the realm of time. Abraham came to exist at a point in time, but Jesus never
had a beginning. He is uncreated and eternal. Since the Bible teaches the eternal nature of Christ, He
cannot be a procreated being as Mormon doctrine teaches.

[Baker]

Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 03 2010,14:12)

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 03 2010,13:24) Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 02 2010,17:45) The only ones who believe God procreated another equal god are Mormans, what is spoken of here is mormanism. Actually Shimmer…that is not true at all.  We must be careful what we write and the accusations made. But this all sounds familiar, Taken from here http://www.evidenceandanswers.org/article….sus.pdf Jesus a Procreated Being? The Mormon Church claims to have restored the true teachings of Jesus. In this article, we will compare the Mormon doctrine of Jesus to the New Testament. Mormonism teaches that Jesus is a procreated being, the literal offspring of God the Father and one of His heavenly wives. According to Mormon theology, God the Father, Elohim, dwells on a planet with His many spirit wives producing numerous spirit children who await to inhabit physical bodies so that they too may one day ascend to godhood as their parents did. Jesus is believed to be the firstborn spirit child of Elohim. The Doctrine and Covenants, one of the four sacred books of Mormonism states, “Christ, the Firstborn, was the mightiest of all the spirit children of the Father.”{1}1 The Gospel Principles, which is the manual of the Mormon Church, states, “The first spirit born to our heavenly parents was Jesus Christ.”{2}2 James Talmage, one of the early apostles of the church wrote, “[A]mong the spirit-children of Elohim, the firstborn was and is Jehovah or Jesus Christ to whom all others are juniors.”{3}3 Mormon doctrine deviates significantly from the Bible, which teaches that Jesus is eternal and not procreated. Although Mormons teach that Jesus is eternal, what they mean is that He existed as a spirit child prior to His incarnation. Being an offspring of Elohim means He was created at some point in time. To support their view, Mormons appeal to John 3:16, which states Jesus is the “only begotten.” The Greek word used there is monogenes, which means “unique” or “one of a kind.” It does not mean procreated, but emphasizes uniqueness. Mormons also appeal to Colossians 1:15, which calls Christ the “Firstborn over all creation.” The Greek word for firstborn is prototokos, meaning “first in rank, preeminent one.” It carries the idea of positional supremacy. Christ is the firstborn in the sense that He is preeminent over all creation. Renowned Greek scholar, the late F.F. Bruce, wrote on how the term was used duringthe time in which Paul wrote. “The word firstborn had long since ceased to be used exclusively in its literal sense, just as prime (from the Latin word primus–first) with us. The Prime Minister is not the first minister we have had; he is the most preeminent. . . . Similarly, firstborn came to denote (among the ancients) not priority in time but preeminence in rank.”{6}6 Psalm 89:27 in the Septuagint calls David the firstborn. We all know David is not the first-born son in his family, nor is he the first king of Israel. Firstborn here is a title of preeminence. These Bible verses do not support the teaching that Jesus is a procreated being. Colossians 1:17 states, “He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.” Christ as the eternal Son of God existed before all creation. Since Christ is “before all things,” He did not depend on anyone or anything for His creation or existence. John 1:1 shows Jesus is eternal and has no beginning. John wrote, “In the beginning was the word.” Scripture indicates that the universe was not created in time, but that time itself was created along with the universe.{7}7 In other words, time was not already in existence when God created the world. The world was created with time rather than in time. Back before the beginning mentioned in Genesis 1:1 and John 1:1 lay a beginningless eternity.{8}8 The verb was is in the imperfect tense indicating continued existence. So Jesus did not come into existence at some point in eternity past, He always existed. There has never been a point where He was not in existence. In John 8:58 Jesus tells the religious leaders, “Before Abraham was born, I am.” Jesus is identifying Himself as the eternal God quoting the words from Exodus 3:14. For this reason the Jews were seeking to stone Him for the crime of blasphemy. The words “I am” or “Yahweh” in the Hebrew language is the verb, to be. This name conveys the meaning of eternal self-existence. Yahweh, whom Jesus is identifying with, is eternal and beyond the realm of time. Abraham came to exist at a point in time, but Jesus never had a beginning. He is uncreated and eternal. Since the Bible teaches the eternal nature of Christ, He cannot be a procreated being as Mormon doctrine teaches.

Shimmer, I hope you don't believe thsi. On a planet with His wifes? That is so redicoulous to say the least nd not according to any Scripture……They did not prove that at all…..Peace Irene

[shimmer]

Irene, NO, I dont agree with it at all, I was showing that mormans believe similar to what some other posters are trying to say.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 02 2010,22:38)

Irene, NO, I dont agree with it at all, I was showing that mormans believe similar to what some other posters are trying to say.

Shimmer

Yes, the Mormons believe that God procreates by having literal offspring from himself.

Many believe that Jesus is his “literal offspring”. If that is so why only “One Only Begotten Son”, why not more? What could please the Father more than to have a million Jesus's come from his own “body” as they say.

Many here stop short of the Mormons belief in more than “One procreated Spirit” by claiming there is only “One procreated Son” but never the less they are related by saying that God brings birth to a god. The concept of God begetting Gods is found in Greek Mythology. And yet they ridicule the “Trinity”?  

WJ

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 03 2010,13:33)

kathy Celestial marriage (also called the New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage and Eternal Marriage) is a doctrine unique to Mormonism, particularly The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) and branches of Mormon fundamentalism. Within Mormonism, celestial marriage is an ordinance associated with a covenant that always takes place inside temples by those authorized to hold the sealing power. The only people allowed to enter the temple, be married there, or simply attend these weddings are those who hold an official temple recommend. Obtaining a temple recommend requires one to abide by LDS doctrine and confess any major sins to one's bishop. They must then be deemed worthy by the bishop. A prerequisite to contracting a celestial marriage, in addition to obtaining a temple recommend, involves undergoing the temple endowment, which involves making of certain covenants with God. In particular, one is expected to promise to be obedient to all the Lord's commandments including living a clean chaste life, abstaining oneself from any impure thing , willing to sacrifice and consecrate all that one has for the Lord. This promise of consecration to the LDS church is often interpreted figuratively.[citation needed] In the marriage ceremony a man and a woman make covenants to God and to each other and are said to be sealed as husband and wife for time and all eternity. The Latter-Day Saint distinguishes itself on this point, citing Matthew 16:19 and 18:18, from some other religious traditions by emphasizing that marriage relationships and covenants made in this life in the Temple will continue to be valid in the next life if they abide by these covenants. In the 19th century the term celestial marriage sometimes referred to the practice of plural marriage, a practice which the LDS Church abandoned in 1890. The term is still used in this sense by Mormon fundamentalists not affiliated with the mainstream LDS Church.[citation needed] In the current LDS Church, both men and women may enter a celestial marriage with only one partner at a time. A man may be sealed to more than one woman; if his wife dies, however, he may enter another celestial marriage, and be sealed to both his living wife and deceased wife or wives. Many Mormons believe that all these marriages will be valid in the eternities and the husband will live together in the afterlife as a family with all to whom he was sealed.[citation needed] On page 72 of the 1998 edition of the Church Handbook of Instructions, the LDS Church clarified that a woman may also be sealed to more than one man. A woman, however, may not be sealed to more than one man while she is alive. She may only be sealed to subsequent partners after she has died.[1] Proxy sealings, like proxy baptisms, are merely offered to the person in the afterlife,[citation needed] indicating that the purpose is to allow the woman to choose the right man to be sealed to, as LDS doctrine forbids polyandry.[citation needed] According to LDS belief, the celestial marriage covenant, as with other covenants, requires the continued righteousness of the couple to remain in effect after this life. If only one remains righteous that person is promised a righteous eternal companion in eternity.[citation Baptism for the dead, vicarious baptism or proxy baptism is the religious practice of baptizing a living person on behalf of an individual who is dead; the living person is acting as the deceased person's proxy. Those who practice this religious rite place great importance upon baptism and view it as a requirement to enter the Kingdom of God. So it is with this practice, an individual is baptized to give those who have already died without the opportunity to receive baptism the opportunity to receive it by proxy if they wish. It has been practiced since 1840 in the Latter Day Saint movement. The practice continues in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, where it is performed only in dedicated temples. Baptism for the dead is also practiced by several other current groups in the Latter Day Saint movement. Advocates of this practice believe it is referred to in The New Testament in 1 Corinthians 15:29. The practice was forbidden by the Catholic Church in the 4th century[citation needed] as an aberrant practice of heretical groups, and is not practiced in modern mainstream Christianity, whether Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, or Protestant. LDS Church doctrine Baptismal font in the Salt Lake Temple, circa 1912, where baptisms for the dead are performed by proxy. The font rests on the backs of twelve oxen representing the Twelve Tribes of IsraelMembers of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe that baptism is a prerequisite for entry into the kingdom of God as stated by Jesus in John 3:5: “Except that a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God” (KJV). The LDS Church teaches that performing baptisms for the dead allows this saving ordinance to be offered to those who have died without accepting or knowing Jesus Christ or his teachings during their mortal lives. It is taught that this is the method by which all who have lived upon the earth will have the opportunity to receive baptism and to thereby enter the Kingdom of God. This concept is similar to but more specific than the idea of Anonymous Christians, posed by Karl Rahner. The LDS Church teaches that those in the afterlife who have been baptized by proxy are free to accept or reject the ordinance done on their behalf. Baptism on behalf of a deceased individual is not binding if that individual chooses to reject it in the afterlife.[17][18] Any member of the LDS church, male or female, who is at least 12 years old and holds a current temple recommend may act as a proxy in this ordinance. Men must also hold the Aaronic Priesthood prior to entering the temple. A man must act as proxy for a deceased man, and a woman must act as proxy for a deceased woman. The concept of a spiritual proxy is compared by some in the LDS Church to the belief that Jesus acted as proxy for every human when he atoned for the sins of the world.[19] Only an adult male holder of the Melchizedek priesthood who has undergone the Endowment ordinance may baptize others as proxies for the dead. this is some info on Mormons or LDS Pierre

Hi Terraricca,

When you copy and paste someone else's words, you
are suppose to Post where you took those words from!

Perhaps no-one has told you this?

Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Baker]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 03 2010,14:52)

Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 02 2010,22:38) Irene, NO, I dont agree with it at all, I was showing that mormans believe similar to what some other posters are trying to say. Shimmer Yes, the Mormons believe that God procreates by having literal offspring from himself. Many believe that Jesus is his “literal offspring”. If that is so why only “One Only Begotten Son”, why not more? What could please the Father more than to have a million Jesus's come from his own “body” as they say. Many here stop short of the Mormons belief in more than “One procreated Spirit” by claiming there is only “One procreated Son” but never the less they are related by saying that God brings birth to a god. The concept of God begetting Gods is found in Greek Mythology. And yet they ridicule the “Trinity”?   WJ

WJ If that what you think, where in Scripture does it say that God had another literal Son like Jesus? Assuming isn't good enough foe me…..Prove all things…… Just like the trinity….. There are several Scriptures that prove that false also…..even by Jesus own words….I don't care which Humans come and say what. If it is not in Scriptures I will not believe it……Peace Irene

[Lightenup]

Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 02 2010,22:12)

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 03 2010,13:24) Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 02 2010,17:45) The only ones who believe God procreated another equal god are Mormans, what is spoken of here is mormanism. Actually Shimmer…that is not true at all.  We must be careful what we write and the accusations made. But this all sounds familiar, Taken from here http://www.evidenceandanswers.org/article….sus.pdf Jesus a Procreated Being? The Mormon Church claims to have restored the true teachings of Jesus. In this article, we will compare the Mormon doctrine of Jesus to the New Testament. Mormonism teaches that Jesus is a procreated being, the literal offspring of God the Father and one of His heavenly wives. According to Mormon theology, God the Father, Elohim, dwells on a planet with His many spirit wives producing numerous spirit children who await to inhabit physical bodies so that they too may one day ascend to godhood as their parents did. Jesus is believed to be the firstborn spirit child of Elohim. The Doctrine and Covenants, one of the four sacred books of Mormonism states, “Christ, the Firstborn, was the mightiest of all the spirit children of the Father.”{1}1 The Gospel Principles, which is the manual of the Mormon Church, states, “The first spirit born to our heavenly parents was Jesus Christ.”{2}2 James Talmage, one of the early apostles of the church wrote, “[A]mong the spirit-children of Elohim, the firstborn was and is Jehovah or Jesus Christ to whom all others are juniors.”{3}3 Mormon doctrine deviates significantly from the Bible, which teaches that Jesus is eternal and not procreated. Although Mormons teach that Jesus is eternal, what they mean is that He existed as a spirit child prior to His incarnation. Being an offspring of Elohim means He was created at some point in time. To support their view, Mormons appeal to John 3:16, which states Jesus is the “only begotten.” The Greek word used there is monogenes, which means “unique” or “one of a kind.” It does not mean procreated, but emphasizes uniqueness. Mormons also appeal to Colossians 1:15, which calls Christ the “Firstborn over all creation.” The Greek word for firstborn is prototokos, meaning “first in rank, preeminent one.” It carries the idea of positional supremacy. Christ is the firstborn in the sense that He is preeminent over all creation. Renowned Greek scholar, the late F.F. Bruce, wrote on how the term was used duringthe time in which Paul wrote. “The word firstborn had long since ceased to be used exclusively in its literal sense, just as prime (from the Latin word primus–first) with us. The Prime Minister is not the first minister we have had; he is the most preeminent. . . . Similarly, firstborn came to denote (among the ancients) not priority in time but preeminence in rank.”{6}6 Psalm 89:27 in the Septuagint calls David the firstborn. We all know David is not the first-born son in his family, nor is he the first king of Israel. Firstborn here is a title of preeminence. These Bible verses do not support the teaching that Jesus is a procreated being. Colossians 1:17 states, “He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.” Christ as the eternal Son of God existed before all creation. Since Christ is “before all things,” He did not depend on anyone or anything for His creation or existence. John 1:1 shows Jesus is eternal and has no beginning. John wrote, “In the beginning was the word.” Scripture indicates that the universe was not created in time, but that time itself was created along with the universe.{7}7 In other words, time was not already in existence when God created the world. The world was created with time rather than in time. Back before the beginning mentioned in Genesis 1:1 and John 1:1 lay a beginningless eternity.{8}8 The verb was is in the imperfect tense indicating continued existence. So Jesus did not come into existence at some point in eternity past, He always existed. There has never been a point where He was not in existence. In John 8:58 Jesus tells the religious leaders, “Before Abraham was born, I am.” Jesus is identifying Himself as the eternal God quoting the words from Exodus 3:14. For this reason the Jews were seeking to stone Him for the crime of blasphemy. The words “I am” or “Yahweh” in the Hebrew language is the verb, to be. This name conveys the meaning of eternal self-existence. Yahweh, whom Jesus is identifying with, is eternal and beyond the realm of time. Abraham came to exist at a point in time, but Jesus never had a beginning. He is uncreated and eternal. Since the Bible teaches the eternal nature of Christ, He cannot be a procreated being as Mormon doctrine teaches.

Shimmer,

And WHO on here is teaching this:

Mormonism teaches that Jesus is a procreated being, the literal offspring of God the Father and one of His
heavenly wives. According to Mormon theology, God the Father, Elohim, dwells on a planet with His
many spirit wives producing numerous spirit children who await to inhabit physical bodies so that they
too may one day ascend to godhood as their parents did

Answer…NO ONE

Or perhaps you want to establish a quote that has someone teaching about the spirit wives of the Father. You won't find it and neither will you Keith.

Perpetuating this type of misinformation is what creates apostacy Shimmer.

[Lightenup]

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 02 2010,21:07)

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 03 2010,19:26) Quote (JustAskin @ Oct. 02 2010,19:04) Hey, Nice to see some agreement going on in this forum…and between two of my favoured posters, nice. Many agree in error and then some find their way to truth.  Narrow is the path but few find it. Kathy why is ? ;; Narrow is the path but few find it. why few find it? Pierre did God pro-create or create ??

Pierre,

Matt 7:13 Go ye in through the strait gate, because wide is the gate, and broad the way that is leading to the destruction, and many are those going in through it;

Agreement is good if it is founded in truth.  Many will agree in error and that type of agreement can lead to destruction.

Quote

did God pro-create or create ??

Did God beget a Son or create a Son?

To beget an offspring is simply a synonym of to procreate an offspring.

How God begat an offspring is not specified, only that He had an only begotten Son whom He sent and whom He created all things through in the beginning and who is called the Firstborn of all creation.

[JustAskin]

Aaaahhh… What is going on here?

Why has this thread gone onto mormorism.

Yak, stop it please..get back to wholesome Scriptures…at least argue about wholesome scriptures, not fantasy…this can only be distraction, listen up people!!!

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 03 2010,22:13)

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 03 2010,13:33) kathy Celestial marriage (also called the New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage and Eternal Marriage) is a doctrine unique to Mormonism, particularly The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) and branches of Mormon fundamentalism. Within Mormonism, celestial marriage is an ordinance associated with a covenant that always takes place inside temples by those authorized to hold the sealing power. The only people allowed to enter the temple, be married there, or simply attend these weddings are those who hold an official temple recommend. Obtaining a temple recommend requires one to abide by LDS doctrine and confess any major sins to one's bishop. They must then be deemed worthy by the bishop. A prerequisite to contracting a celestial marriage, in addition to obtaining a temple recommend, involves undergoing the temple endowment, which involves making of certain covenants with God. In particular, one is expected to promise to be obedient to all the Lord's commandments including living a clean chaste life, abstaining oneself from any impure thing , willing to sacrifice and consecrate all that one has for the Lord. This promise of consecration to the LDS church is often interpreted figuratively.[citation needed] In the marriage ceremony a man and a woman make covenants to God and to each other and are said to be sealed as husband and wife for time and all eternity. The Latter-Day Saint distinguishes itself on this point, citing Matthew 16:19 and 18:18, from some other religious traditions by emphasizing that marriage relationships and covenants made in this life in the Temple will continue to be valid in the next life if they abide by these covenants. In the 19th century the term celestial marriage sometimes referred to the practice of plural marriage, a practice which the LDS Church abandoned in 1890. The term is still used in this sense by Mormon fundamentalists not affiliated with the mainstream LDS Church.[citation needed] In the current LDS Church, both men and women may enter a celestial marriage with only one partner at a time. A man may be sealed to more than one woman; if his wife dies, however, he may enter another celestial marriage, and be sealed to both his living wife and deceased wife or wives. Many Mormons believe that all these marriages will be valid in the eternities and the husband will live together in the afterlife as a family with all to whom he was sealed.[citation needed] On page 72 of the 1998 edition of the Church Handbook of Instructions, the LDS Church clarified that a woman may also be sealed to more than one man. A woman, however, may not be sealed to more than one man while she is alive. She may only be sealed to subsequent partners after she has died.[1] Proxy sealings, like proxy baptisms, are merely offered to the person in the afterlife,[citation needed] indicating that the purpose is to allow the woman to choose the right man to be sealed to, as LDS doctrine forbids polyandry.[citation needed] According to LDS belief, the celestial marriage covenant, as with other covenants, requires the continued righteousness of the couple to remain in effect after this life. If only one remains righteous that person is promised a righteous eternal companion in eternity.[citation Baptism for the dead, vicarious baptism or proxy baptism is the religious practice of baptizing a living person on behalf of an individual who is dead; the living person is acting as the deceased person's proxy. Those who practice this religious rite place great importance upon baptism and view it as a requirement to enter the Kingdom of God. So it is with this practice, an individual is baptized to give those who have already died without the opportunity to receive baptism the opportunity to receive it by proxy if they wish. It has been practiced since 1840 in the Latter Day Saint movement. The practice continues in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, where it is performed only in dedicated temples. Baptism for the dead is also practiced by several other current groups in the Latter Day Saint movement. Advocates of this practice believe it is referred to in The New Testament in 1 Corinthians 15:29. The practice was forbidden by the Catholic Church in the 4th century[citation needed] as an aberrant practice of heretical groups, and is not practiced in modern mainstream Christianity, whether Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, or Protestant. LDS Church doctrine Baptismal font in the Salt Lake Temple, circa 1912, where baptisms for the dead are performed by proxy. The font rests on the backs of twelve oxen representing the Twelve Tribes of IsraelMembers of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe that baptism is a prerequisite for entry into the kingdom of God as stated by Jesus in John 3:5: “Except that a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God” (KJV). The LDS Church teaches that performing baptisms for the dead allows this saving ordinance to be offered to those who have died without accepting or knowing Jesus Christ or his teachings during their mortal lives. It is taught that this is the method by which all who have lived upon the earth will have the opportunity to receive baptism and to thereby enter the Kingdom of God. This concept is similar to but more specific than the idea of Anonymous Christians, posed by Karl Rahner. The LDS Church teaches that those in the afterlife who have been baptized by proxy are free to accept or reject the ordinance done on their behalf. Baptism on behalf of a deceased individual is not binding if that individual chooses to reject it in the afterlife.[17][18] Any member of the LDS church, male or female, who is at least 12 years old and holds a current temple recommend may act as a proxy in this ordinance. Men must also hold the Aaronic Priesthood prior to entering the temple. A man must act as proxy for a deceased man, and a woman must act as proxy for a deceased woman. The concept of a spiritual proxy is compared by some in the LDS Church to the belief that Jesus acted as proxy for every human when he atoned for the sins of the world.[19] Only an adult male holder of the Melchizedek priesthood who has undergone the Endowment ordinance may baptize others as proxies for the dead. this is some info on Mormons or LDS Pierre Hi Terraricca, When you copy and paste someone else's words, you are suppose to Post where you took those words from! Perhaps no-one has told you this? Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon

Pierre

[shimmer]

Lu, all I did was post some facts on mormonism.  

These are the points I was drawing attention to….

Mormonism teaches that Jesus is a procreated being, the literal offspring of God the Father

To support their view, Mormons appeal to John 3:16, which states Jesus is the “only begotten.”

The Greek word used there is monogenes, which means “unique” or “one of a kind.”

It does not mean procreated, but emphasizes uniqueness.

Mormons also appeal to Colossians 1:15, which calls Christ the “Firstborn over all creation.”

The Greek word for firstborn is prototokos, meaning “first in rank, preeminent one.”

It carries the idea of positional supremacy. Christ is the firstborn in the sense that He is preeminent over all creation.

http://www.evidenceandanswers.org/article….sus.pdf

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