- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (Stu @ Aug. 03 2009,06:48)
(P)Quote And it most certainly was “proven true” when Cyrus king of Persia sent the prisoner-of-war population of the Children of Israel back to their homes to rebuild the city walls, and the temple, AND paid all expenses of the trip, AND all the expenses of the rebuilding. It is historical fact. THAT CONSTITUTES PROOF in any court of any land. (Stu) You can’t accept that they lied to fulfill “prophecy’, can you. In a court we would be talking about perjury.
Nope! YOU would be under arrest for defamation of character.
With NO evidence, NO proof, NO testimony, NO references from scholars, just accusations against people to whom you have not even listened, you place such a judgment against.Quote (Paladin @ Aug. 04 2009,00:40) Stu,Aug. wrote:[/quote]
(P)Quote And it most certainly was “proven true” when Cyrus king of Persia sent the prisoner-of-war population of the Children of Israel back to their homes to rebuild the city walls, and the temple, AND paid all expenses of the trip, AND all the expenses of the rebuilding. It is historical fact. THAT CONSTITUTES PROOF in any court of any land. (Stu) You can’t accept that they lied to fulfill “prophecy’, can you. In a court we would be talking about perjury.
Nope! YOU would be under arrest for defamation of character.
With NO evidence, NO proof, NO testimony, NO references from scholars, just accusations against people to whom you have not even listened, you place such a judgment against.
I have not named anyone, so I'm afraid your litigation would fail.They did not even catch the criminal christians who misrepresented Josephus.
There's no justice, is there?!
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Aug. 04 2009,07:14) Quote (Paladin @ Aug. 04 2009,00:40) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 03 2009,06:48)
(P)Quote And it most certainly was “proven true” when Cyrus king of Persia sent the prisoner-of-war population of the Children of Israel back to their homes to rebuild the city walls, and the temple, AND paid all expenses of the trip, AND all the expenses of the rebuilding. It is historical fact. THAT CONSTITUTES PROOF in any court of any land. (Stu) You can’t accept that they lied to fulfill “prophecy’, can you. In a court we would be talking about perjury.
Nope! YOU would be under arrest for defamation of character.
With NO evidence, NO proof, NO testimony, NO references from scholars, just accusations against people to whom you have not even listened, you place such a judgment against.
I have not named anyone, so I'm afraid your litigation would fail.They did not even catch the criminal christians who misrepresented Josephus.
There's no justice, is there?!
Stuart
You mean those “Criminal Christians” YOU testified against, without seeing or hearing anything about them or from them?Quote (Stu @ Aug. 03 2009,17:08) Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 03 2009,09:50) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 03 2009,06:29) Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 03 2009,02:16) I don't like long post, so all I am going to say is:” Jesus the Son of God testified of His Father God, and that is good enough for me. No other Scriptures necessary.
Peace and Love Irene
OK. What an unfortunate blindness afflicts you.That's long enough for me too.
Stuart
Really!!!! How can you prove that there is no God? The Bible is true, because all history which was predicted came true.
So you not only have Jesus, but the Apostles too. It was a Catholic Monk who took all of the Letters and put them in a Book, which is the N.T. and the O.T. the Jewish people reserved.
Peace and Love Irene
P.S. You don't have to reply, I know you are not going believe me no matter what I say.
Well I will reply, and I will retract for the time being the comment about blindness, because you seem willing to engage. Good for you.No I cannot prove there is no god.
Some bits of the bible are true. There is a place called Jerusalem, and Herod was a king, for example.
There are other bits that are definitely wrong, beyond any reasonable doubt, like the origins of humans and the global flood. They did not happen as written in scripture.
It is up to you whether you believe that Jesus existed, or walked again after he was executed. Humans are not able to do either, and there are very good reasons to explain why ancient people might have invented that story. Virgin birth and resurrection of a man-god was a very common myth in many religions before the supposed time of Jesus. Your religion is a repeat of what has gone many times before.
The bible is indeed a compilation of the old Catholic church. How was the canon decided? Do you really trust those monks to work out which parchments carried the official word of your god?
Stuart
Stu! The true Christians had gone underground to worship God, because the Romans executed them heavily. So it was Constantine who first let all Christians have their way. It was called the Roman Universal Church and still is the Roman Catholic Church. That is how we have the letters of the Bible and eye Witnesses. I also know that there is error in the Bible. but you have to take precept upon precept and line upon line here a little and there a little. Stu I hope with all my heart that one day you Will believe in God. You seem to know some very good Scriptures, and that is good. Ad far as the cannon is concerned neither my Husband or I remember how that came about. All I do know that most doctrine were
instituted by the Popes. most Catholics are deceived but good people and our Son is still in the Baptist Church. So yes I do trust the Monks.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (Paladin @ Aug. 04 2009,10:17) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 04 2009,07:14) Quote (Paladin @ Aug. 04 2009,00:40) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 03 2009,06:48)
(P)Quote And it most certainly was “proven true” when Cyrus king of Persia sent the prisoner-of-war population of the Children of Israel back to their homes to rebuild the city walls, and the temple, AND paid all expenses of the trip, AND all the expenses of the rebuilding. It is historical fact. THAT CONSTITUTES PROOF in any court of any land. (Stu) You can’t accept that they lied to fulfill “prophecy’, can you. In a court we would be talking about perjury.
Nope! YOU would be under arrest for defamation of character.
With NO evidence, NO proof, NO testimony, NO references from scholars, just accusations against people to whom you have not even listened, you place such a judgment against.
I have not named anyone, so I'm afraid your litigation would fail.They did not even catch the criminal christians who misrepresented Josephus.
There's no justice, is there?!
Stuart
You mean those “Criminal Christians” YOU testified against, without seeing or hearing anything about them or from them?
Just like the most likely murderers, they did not take the stand but were convicted on the evidence.Stuart
Cindy
Quote The true Christians had gone underground to worship God, because the Romans executed them heavily. So it was Constantine who first let all Christians have their way. It was called the Roman Universal Church and still is the Roman Catholic Church. That is how we have the letters of the Bible and eye Witnesses. I also know that there is error in the Bible. but you have to take precept upon precept and line upon line here a little and there a little. Stu I hope with all my heart that one day you Will believe in God. You seem to know some very good Scriptures, and that is good. Ad far as the cannon is concerned neither my Husband or I remember how that came about. All I do know that most doctrine were
instituted by the Popes. most Catholics are deceived but good people and our Son is still in the Baptist Church. So yes I do trust the Monks.Indeed without the conversion of Constantine we would possibly not have christianity today.
The people I know, and the ones I see on TV who are tolerant and respectful of difference, positive and optimistic and encouraging of their fellow humans, and really appreciative of their place in the universe are not christian.
Those who mope about how bad the world is, who want to pass judgement on others, to tell them how they should live their lives and talk in patronising tones about how inadequate others are, are christian.
Why would I want to be one of them?
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Aug. 04 2009,07:14) Quote (Paladin @ Aug. 04 2009,00:40) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 03 2009,06:48)
(P)Quote And it most certainly was “proven true” when Cyrus king of Persia sent the prisoner-of-war population of the Children of Israel back to their homes to rebuild the city walls, and the temple, AND paid all expenses of the trip, AND all the expenses of the rebuilding. It is historical fact. THAT CONSTITUTES PROOF in any court of any land. (Stu) You can’t accept that they lied to fulfill “prophecy’, can you. In a court we would be talking about perjury.
Nope! YOU would be under arrest for defamation of character.
With NO evidence, NO proof, NO testimony, NO references from scholars, just accusations against people to whom you have not even listened, you place such a judgment against.
I have not named anyone, so I'm afraid your litigation would fail.They did not even catch the criminal christians who misrepresented Josephus.
There's no justice, is there?!
Stuart
And do you know WHY they did not “catch those Christians?”Because they only exist in books that are written against the bible. They do not exist in history, nor in theology, not in logic, nor in any factual representation of what took place.
Quote (Stu @ Aug. 06 2009,19:57) Just like Jesus. Stuart
You just insist on focussing on your ignorance and sharing it with the whole world.Jesus is an historical reality. The bible is not the only reference to the fact of his existence.
There have been more changes made in governments because of this one man, than there have been over any other man.
There have been more scientific breakthroughs because of this man than any other man.
There have been more people led to be better than they were because of this one man.
And there have been more Athiests developed over this man than any other man in history; by trying to prove he is not God, which is a waste of time because he never was God. He has always, since his birth, been the son of God.
We are all born atheist. It is the default status.
Some of those atheists have subsequently proved more susceptible to religious delusion than others.
Can you give me just one example of a scientific breakthrough that would not have been possible without Jesus being an historical figure?
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Aug. 07 2009,17:52)
(Stu)Quote We are all born atheist. It is the default status. By what stretch of the imagination is THAT profundity considered real?
We are made in the image of God, begin life in the image of God, and go downhill from there.
THAT is the default status.
(Stu)
Quote Some of those atheists have subsequently proved more susceptible to religious delusion than others. The truth is, some of those images of God failed to take advantage of the love he freely bestowed upon us all, and hate him because they are no in charge. They HATE being
“average” and “normal” when it should be obvious they are superior.(Stu)
Can you give me just one example of a scientific breakthrough that would not have been possible without Jesus being an historical figure? [/quote]Sure. All of the Archeological evidence that substantiates the man from Galilee as being real.
The Historical evidence that Cyrus, King of Persia really did send the Jews back to Israel around 500 b.c. to rebuild the walls of the city, and the temple, and paid the expenses for it all.
The Eccliastical evidence that every nation came together to contribute to its authenticity.
The fact of me.
The fact of Thinker.
The fact of WJ.
The fact of you.
We are the reason for the existence of Jesus.
Now can you give me just one example of a scientific breakthrough that would not have been possible without Jesus being an historical figure?
I mean something that is actually published in a scientific paper somewhere, whether it be in a professional journal of archeology or in another discipline?
Stu: We are all born atheist. It is the default status.
Quote By what stretch of the imagination is THAT profundity considered real? By the very obvious fact that you have adopted the religion most prevalent in your country, and more specifically I would guess in the culture of your heritage.
If India was full of roughly equal numbers of randomly-distributed hindi, christians, muslims, Jews and scientologists then I would concede that it could be true that you were born some kind of believer. But it is not true. In all cases of children having a religion claimed for them it is the same as their parents' religion. Most people buying into religion later in life do the same thing, although not all. Young children do not have the abstract capacity to accept or reject the tenets of a religion, so if they are to do what people bang on about here, they would not be able to make a FREE WILL choice to ACCEPT JESUS and have any concept of what that means (abstract thinking does not start developing until about 12 or 13 years). It cannot be an informed decision with all the adult themes and concepts involved.
We were all born atheist. Some of us could not resist the pull of delusion.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Aug. 08 2009,05:08) Now can you give me just one example of a scientific breakthrough that would not have been possible without Jesus being an historical figure? I mean something that is actually published in a scientific paper somewhere, whether it be in a professional journal of archeology or in another discipline?
Stu: We are all born atheist. It is the default status.
Quote By what stretch of the imagination is THAT profundity considered real? By the very obvious fact that you have adopted the religion most prevalent in your country, and more specifically I would guess in the culture of your heritage.
If India was full of roughly equal numbers of randomly-distributed hindi, christians, muslims, Jews and scientologists then I would concede that it could be true that you were born some kind of believer. But it is not true. In all cases of children having a religion claimed for them it is the same as their parents' religion. Most people buying into religion later in life do the same thing, although not all. Young children do not have the abstract capacity to accept or reject the tenets of a religion, so if they are to do what people bang on about here, they would not be able to make a FREE WILL choice to ACCEPT JESUS and have any concept of what that means (abstract thinking does not start developing until about 12 or 13 years). It cannot be an informed decision with all the adult themes and concepts involved.
We were all born atheist. Some of us could not resist the pull of delusion.
Stuart
The only “scientific” hypothoesis I need is that God predicted homosexuality, but homosexuals did not predict God; rather they lost the proof of him in their foolishness.Rom 1:18 “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever.”
I do not turn to science to “prove” God; I turn to God to prove science. THAT is why I know that the “theory of Evolution” will never become the “fact of Evolution.” It was never, is not, and never will be a fact. I will not be judged by scientists when my days are done, but by the Holy God of us all. And it is not his justice I seek, but his mercy.
I am not surprised to see you cannot substantiate your claim about there being scientific breakthroughs predicated on the historicity of Jesus.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Aug. 08 2009,13:24) Quote I am glad to see that you are not denying that we are all born atheist. Stuart How many times does it take before you see it?
(Stu)
Quote We are all born atheist. It is the default status. (P)
Quote By what stretch of the imagination is THAT profundity considered real? Quote (Paladin @ Aug. 08 2009,21:45) Stu,Aug. wrote:[/quote]
Quote I am glad to see that you are not denying that we are all born atheist. Stuart How many times does it take before you see it?
(Stu)
Quote We are all born atheist. It is the default status. (P)
Quote By what stretch of the imagination is THAT profundity considered real?
Is that supposed to be a denial? I mean with an actual logical argument?Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Aug. 09 2009,01:43) Quote (Paladin @ Aug. 08 2009,21:45) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 08 2009,13:24) Quote I am glad to see that you are not denying that we are all born atheist. Stuart How many times does it take before you see it?
(Stu)
Quote We are all born atheist. It is the default status. (P)
Quote By what stretch of the imagination is THAT profundity considered real?
Is that supposed to be a denial? I mean with an actual logical argument?Stuart
Why?I see no “actual logical argument” that your assertion without evidence is truth. It does not deserve a logical argument in rebuttal.
I can show a logical argument for God's existence, in 155 logically sustained steps, but why would I present it? God does not depend upon the logic of men for glory.
I can present a logical argument for the existence of your god too, unfortunately the assumptions upon which it is based are absurd, much like I imagine yours are.
Just to remind you, the logical argument is that people are not born christian because people would have to be born other things, and had you been born in Saudi Arabia you would almost certainly not have been 'born christian' unless you lived in a Western compound with christian parents.
I am just saying that people are born without religious beliefs, because they cannot articulate them until they are old enough to have been taught them, and muslims do nto automatically reject islam because they realise that there is something inherent in them that tells them it is a false doctrine.
Your turn. Can you sustain any logical counter-argument to that, with evidence that supports it like I gave?
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Aug. 09 2009,08:54) I can present a logical argument for the existence of your god too, unfortunately the assumptions upon which it is based are absurd, much like I imagine yours are. Just to remind you, the logical argument is that people are not born christian because people would have to be born other things, and had you been born in Saudi Arabia you would almost certainly not have been 'born christian' unless you lived in a Western compound with christian parents.
I am just saying that people are born without religious beliefs, because they cannot articulate them until they are old enough to have been taught them, and muslims do nto automatically reject islam because they realise that there is something inherent in them that tells them it is a false doctrine.
Stuart
There is no way you can make a logical argument from absurd premises.You are correct in one thing though, you are “imagining” it.
Quote Your turn. Can you sustain any logical counter-argument to that, with evidence that supports it like I gave? You call an absurd opinion “Evidence?”
Give us all a break.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
