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LU, we must believe in the one true God and his son.
Only one of these is God himself. The other can be referred to as theos just the same as others can who are also most certainly not God himself.
Your word games will not change the truth that the Father is the one true God and no amount of devious teaching will get me to break the first commandment.
It is no wonder that many Jews have rejected the gospel of Jesus Christ. What they hear is Christians teaching them that God is triune. They know better than that. Many Jews today are now Atheists having rejected the Triune God false gospel. How about teaching that YHWH has sent his son as the messiah after the prophets? What is wrong with the truth? Oh how the foundation today is almost unrecognizable to what is written and what has been revealed.
While the Jews have rejected the messiah, many Christians have rejected the one true God and replaced him for a God made in their own understanding. This is no light thing but a very serious issue. But both could come to the knowledge of truth if they repented and accepted the one true God sent his son into the world.
Eternal life is to know this only true God and his son. If someone gets God’s identity wrong, then what is the real chance that they know God?
If you thought your best friend was someone else, then could you argue that you really know your friend?
@t8
But God’s existence is not subject to anyone or anything. He always was. He has always been.
Actually God the FATHER’s existence demands the existence of an offspring. So, are you telling me that He was not always God the Father? Did He’change?’
@t8
LU, we must believe in the one true God and his son.
Very good, that would make a theos who is the Father and a theos who is the Son. That makes two theos whom we must believe in and follow for salvation.
you did not answer this:
How many persons who are called theos somewhere in scripture must you believe in and follow to have everlasting life?
All three of you, please answer this fundamental question.
The answer calls for a number, please leave your ‘spin’ out of it. Look at the facts.
Hi LU,
Are you trying to drive a wedge between the Father and the Son?
What God has joined together let no man put asunder
Very good, that would make a theos who is the Father and a theos who is the Son. That makes two theos whom we must believe in and follow for salvation.
Sorry but no, we must believe in one who is God the Father as well as his son. While his son can be called theos like others are, we are not required to believe that he is THE God and neither a god as far as I can tell. We are required to believe that he is the son, the messiah, and the lord in order to believe the tuth. Yes he can be described as theos in certain contexts as others can too, he is not THE God and there are not two Gods or two who are God. Just the same as Judas is not THE Devil but can be called devil in certain contexts.
If you understood what it is that I am saying, then you wouldn’t make such feeble attempts to dissuade me away from believing in Jesus true identity as the son, messiah, and lord by making him God instead.
The Devil is the god of this age. So does that make him part of the Trinity? No. But your definition of theos with Christ if applied to others who are legitimately called theos would make them God too. So the thinking is faulty.
Descriptives are not proof of identity LU. This is where you stumble and where you are trying to get others to stumble.
A more honest question to ask instead would be to say: “How many persons described as theos somewhere in scripture must you believe in and follow to have everlasting life?”. My answer to that would be God himself and his son. This is why you will see that God in scripture is the Father nearly always. Some exceptions describe Satan, men, angels, and even an earthquake as theos and/or elohim, while there are a lot of references to idols being false theos.
Actually God the FATHER’s existence demands the existence of an offspring. So, are you telling me that He was not always God the Father? Did He’change?’
When God had a son or begat the Word from himself, it did not change him. He did not get better or worse. He is the same. He is perfect.
@t8
When God had a son or begat the Word from himself, it did not change him. He did not get better or worse. He is the same. He is perfect.
Ahhh….so it is His perfection that is consistent and what is meant by the fact that He changes not. You keep saying that Jesus changed so He cannot be God. In what ways was Jesus less than perfect, t8??
@t8
you said:Sorry but no, we must believe in one who is God the Father as well as his son. While his son can be called theos like others are, we are not required to believe that he is THE God and neither a god as far as I can tell.
You say that we are not required to believe that Jesus is a god, hmmm. If you know that He is identified as a god, then who is He god of, t8?
@NickHassan
You also admit that Jesus is a god. Who do you believe He is a god of?Just answer the question. I didn’t ask who He is not a god of.
You also admit that Jesus is a god. Who do you believe He is a god of?The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Zondervan, 1986, tells us:>
“The reason why judges are called ‘gods’ in Ps. 82 is that they have the office of administering God’s judgment as ‘sons of the Most High’. In context of the Ps[alm] the men in question have failed to do this…. On the other hand, Jesus fulfilled the role of a true judge as a god and ‘son of the Most High’.” – Vol. 3, p. 187.
So, whom do you believe the judges were gods of?
Young’s Analytical Concordance of the Bible, Eerdmans, 1978 Reprint, “Hints and Helps to Bible Interpretation”:
“65. GOD – is used of any one (professedly) MIGHTY, whether truly so or not, and is applied not only to the true God, but to false gods; magistrates; judges; angels; prophets; etc.”
So whom do you believe the prophets were gods of?
………………………………………
The New Brown-Driver-Briggs-Gesenius Hebrew-English Lexicon, 1979, Hendrickson, p. 43:
Elohim [God or gods]: “a. rulers, judges, either as divine representatives at sacred places or as reflecting divine majesty and power…. b. divine ones, superhuman beings including God and angels…. c. angels Ps. 97:7 …”
So whom do you believe the angels are gods of?
………………………………………………
Some of the trinitarian sources which admit that the Bible actually describes men who represent God (judges, Israelite kings, etc.) and God’s angels as gods include:
1. Young’s Analytical Concordance of the Bible, “Hints and Helps…,” Eerdmans, 1978 reprint;
2. Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, #430, Hebrew and Chaldee Dict., Abingdon, 1974;
3. New Bible Dictionary, p. 1133, Tyndale House Publ., 1984;
4. Today’s Dictionary of the Bible, p. 208, Bethany House Publ., 1982;
5. Hastings’ A Dictionary of the Bible, p. 217, Vol. 2;
6. The New Brown-Driver-Briggs-Gesenius Hebrew-English Lexicon, p. 43, Hendrickson publ.,1979;
7. Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, #2316 (4.), Thayer, Baker Book House, 1984 printing;
8. The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, p. 132, Vol. 1; and p. 1265, Vol. 2, Eerdmans, 1984;
9. The NIV Study Bible, footnotes for Ps. 45:6; Ps. 82:1, 6; and Jn 10:34; Zondervan, 1985;
10. New American Bible, St. Joseph ed., footnote for Ps. 45:7, 1970 ed.;
11. A. T. Robertson, Word Pictures, Vol. 5, pp. 188-189;
12. William G. T. Shedd, Dogmatic Theology, Vol. 1, pp. 317, 324, Nelson Publ., 1980 printing;
13. Murray J. Harris, Jesus As God, p. 202, Baker Book House, 1992;
14. William Barclay, The Gospel of John, V. 2, Daily Study Bible Series, pp. 77, 78, Westminster Press,1975;
15. The New John Gill Exposition of the Entire Bible (John 10:34 and Ps. 82:6);
16. The Fourfold Gospel (Note for John 10:35);
17. Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible – Jamieson, Fausset, Brown (John 10:34-36);
18. Matthew Henry Complete Commentary on the Whole Bible (Ps. 82:6-8 and John 10:35);
19. John Wesley’s Explanatory Notes on the Whole Bible (Ps. 82:1).
20. Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (‘Little Kittel’), – p. 328, Eerdmans Publishing Co., 1985.
21. The Expositor’s Greek Testament, pp. 794-795, Vol. 1, Eerdmans Publishing Co.
22. The Amplified Bible, Ps. 82:1, 6 and John 10:34, 35, Zondervan Publ., 1965.
23. Barnes’ Notes on the New Testament, John 10:34, 35.
24. B. W. Johnson’s People’s New Testament, John 10:34-36.
25. The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Zondervan, 1986, Vol. 3, p. 187.
26. Fairbairn’s Imperial Standard Bible Encyclopedia, p. 24, vol. III, Zondervan, 1957 reprint.
27. Theological Dictionary, Rahner and Vorgrimler, p. 20, Herder and Herder, 1965.
And, of course the highly respected and highly popular Jewish writer, Philo, had the same understanding for “God”/”a god” about the same time the NT was written. See the LOGOS study.
And the earliest Christians like the highly respected NT scholar Origen and others – – including Tertullian; Justin Martyr; Hippolytus; Clement of Alexandria; Theophilus; the writer of “The Epistle to Diognetus”; and even super-Trinitarians St. Athanasius and St. Augustine – – also had this understanding for “a god.”
Hi LU,
Good question.
Since you have appointed him a god then perhaps you and other religious folk who do not know his God, the Father.
Thanks for your post Tigger.
LU, who is Jesus a god of?
If he is called theos by office, then he is not the God of everyone. A better word would be lord.
Does the Bible have examples of Judges who were called God by other people. Were the Pharisees called God. Was Nicodemus called God?Yet they were described as theos and sons of the Most High God. Sounds like Jesus too doesn’t it. Except of course he is first in all things.
Judas was described as devil, but who goes around calling him the/a devil. When was the last time you called Judas the/a devil. Yet he is described in that term.
Point is, for us there is one true God the Father. He has a son who he made lord and messiah.
You are playing word games. We are interested in the words of life.
Jesus called the Pharisees a bunch of vultures or blood suckers or some other similar term.
How many pharisees in scripture do you know that were actually called Vulture?
Jesus said to Vulture you hypocrite… lol.
Yeah na.
Very good, theos can simply mean mighty one. The question is, ultimately, which mighty ones participated in creation, salvation, and are given dominion, glory, honor, and praise for ever and ever by the other mighty ones??? Do you know? Maybe if you read the other things those sources tell you, you will see what they say and while you are at it, try the Bible and see what it says.
Rev 5:13
And every created thing which is in the heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and on the sea, and all things that are in them, heard I saying, Unto him that sitteth on the throne, and unto the Lamb, be the blessing, and the honour, and the glory, and the dominion, for ever and ever.
How many theos are given the blessing, the honour and the glory and the dominion for ever and ever, tigger? One or two?
Have a great day!
@t8
you said:If he is called theos by office, then he is not the God of everyone. A better word would be lord.
Will EVERYONE be bowing down to Him in the end, t8? Is He Lord of ALL, t8? Ultimately, when all is said and done, who do all the others whom are called theos bow down to and give honor, praise, glory, and dominion for ever and ever? If the Bible says ALL CREATED THINGS IN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH AND UNDER THE EARTH do this, then Jesus is a theos who is a theos to everyone and if they also bow down to the Father, that would make two who are called theos who ultimately get the highest recognition.
You can find this in your Bible too.
Rev 5:13
And every created thing which is in the heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and on the sea, and all things that are in them, heard I saying, Unto him that sitteth on the throne,
and unto the Lamb,
be the blessing, and the honour, and the glory, and the dominion, for ever and ever.
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