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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 13 2007,06:53) Hi kj,
That would be reasonable scientific evidence.
But it does not exist.
And good science is given a bad name by this hocus pocus
That is exactly why “some” atheist scientist are coming around to creation. NOT that they believe in the God of the bible mind you but they believe in something “behind” all that has happened…life!Nothing from nothing leaves nothing. How could there be something from nothing.
I'm an animal lover (even apes) I can tell you animals learn. They respond to word association, though limited they do think! Is that evidence of EVILoution? Simply, There is no animal crossing into another species, is there?
Before scientist prehistoric man said that the earth is round; Isa. 40:22. How did a mind that was still evolving come to such knowledge?
The word of God proves itself by the fulfillment of prophecy. Destroy those who destroy the earth; Rev. 11:18.
Love will grow cold because of lawlessness; Mat. 24:12.
They will accumulate for themselves teachers in order to scratch
their itching ears. They now have their teachers who preach what they would prefer rather than the truth: 2Tim 4:3-4If one would rather believe that Jesus is NOT the Messiah then there is Now a preacher for YOU! Today anything you believe their are those who would agree with you.
So as in the beginning it comes down to faith: The substance of things not seen; 2Cor. 4:18; Heb.11:1:
Heb 11:3 By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.
The television evangelist has drawn those who are materialistic to a new realm showing their real god! Mat. 24:5
Like a scavenger cleaning up behind all other animals so Stu does God's work!
Behind him we have even a finer filter…Tow!His will, WILL be done
Hi Kenrch
Quote …That is exactly why “some” atheist scientist are coming around to creation. NOT that they believe in the God of the bible mind you but they believe in something “behind” all that has happened…life!
Name five.Quote Nothing from nothing leaves nothing. How could there be something from nothing.
Good question. Are you searching for an answer, or a gap to wedge a god into?Quote I'm an animal lover (even apes) I can tell you animals learn. They respond to word association, though limited they do think! Is that evidence of EVILoution? Simply, There is no animal crossing into another species, is there?
If animals can learn like humans can, isn’t that evidence of common ancestry?Quote Before scientist prehistoric man said that the earth is round; Isa. 40:22. How did a mind that was still evolving come to such knowledge?
The writer of Isaiah (whoever he was) is no different genetically to people today. That is not to say we have stopped evolving, but the difference between then and now is minimal. The bible supposedly describes events of history, not prehistory.Isaiah 40:22 calls it the circle of the earth, even though he had available to him words that mean ball or sphere. I don’t need to tell you that a circle is flat. Anyway, why does Matthew 4:8 say you can see all the kingdoms of the world from a high mountain? Surely this confirms that the earth is flat!
Quote The word of God proves itself by the fulfillment of prophecy. Destroy those who destroy the earth; Rev. 11:18.
Yes, the bible is big on destroying. Can you fix destruction with destruction?Quote If one would rather believe that Jesus is NOT the Messiah then there is Now a preacher for YOU! Today anything you believe their are those who would agree with you.
Sure. But did Jesus think he was the messiah? There is no unambiguous evidence for that.Quote So as in the beginning it comes down to faith: The substance of things not seen; 2Cor. 4:18; Heb.11:1:
It may for you, but it doesn’t for me. It comes down to evidence of the 'seen', which is the only thing we can unquestionably rely on together, across different cultures and beliefs.Quote Heb 11:3 By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.
We know that all matter is made out of atoms and they in turn from subatomic particles all of which are not visible. 'The word of god' is not a process recognised by science. Would you like to tell us how it organises matter?Quote The television evangelist has drawn those who are materialistic to a new realm showing their real god! Mat. 24:5 … and he charges handsomely for the service!
Quote Like a scavenger cleaning up behind all other animals so Stu does God's work! Behind him we have even a finer filter…Tow!
I pose less of a threat to you because you simply dismiss reality. Towshab is pointing your scripture back at you to expose the frailty in it, and that is much harder to ignore.Quote His will, WILL be done
Is that a statement about your god, or about Count Dracula? I find the two easily confused as the script is almost the same.Stuart
Quote why does Matthew 4:8 say you can see all the kingdoms of the world from a high mountain? Surely this confirms that the earth is flat! Even if it was flat, obviously you couldn't literally see all the kingdoms. It appears he was miraculously shown these kingdoms.
Quote Isaiah 40:22 calls it the circle of the earth,
And job said that it's hanging on nothing.If you step back and look at the earth, this is esentially what it is, a circle hanging on nothing.
What a remarkably odd description for back then, a description that I can't really see very many accepting.Quote But did Jesus think he was the messiah? There is no unambiguous evidence for that. JOHN 4:25-26
“The woman said to him: “I know that Mes·si′ah is coming, who is called Christ. Whenever that one arrives, he will declare all things to us openly.” Jesus said to her: “I who am speaking to you am he.””Hi David
Quote Even if it was flat, obviously you couldn't literally see all the kingdoms. It appears he was miraculously shown these kingdoms. Satan is capable of miracles? I bet they’re more interesting than the alleged messiah’s!
Quote If you step back and look at the earth, this is esentially what it is, a circle hanging on nothing.
What a remarkably odd description for back then, a description that I can't really see very many accepting.Except that it is ‘hanging’ on the gravitational attraction of the sun. And it is not a circle. And the bible is supposed to be inspired by an all-knowing being. Why did the Imaginary One mention it at all, if the result is a wrong description?
Stu: But did Jesus think he was the messiah? There is no unambiguous evidence for that.
Quote JOHN 4:25-26
“The woman said to him: “I know that Mes·si′ah is coming, who is called Christ. Whenever that one arrives, he will declare all things to us openly.” Jesus said to her: “I who am speaking to you am he.””The writer of John said that Jesus claimed to be the messiah. Does that show that Jesus actually said it?
Stuart
Stu, I agree that you are an ape/animal if that is what you say you are. No argument there if you let your DNA dictate your life.
Perhaps you should aim a bit higher than being satisfied with being an animal though. After all, you have more than instinct. You have a conscience and you can reason. You can do things that animals and apes cannot. Tap into that which you can have that animals cannot.
Jude 1:10
Yet these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals—these are the very things that destroy them.But if you want to be an ape, then your carnal nature will rule you till the end and like animals you will perish.
The future belongs to the sons of God, not to apes Stu.
One day this planet will be inhabited by the righteous sons of God. It won't be Planet of the Apes.
Hi t8
Quote I agree that you are an ape/animal if that is what you say you are. No argument there if you let your DNA dictate your life. We are both animals. What else would we be? Can you show me the scriptural reason why you deny the fact of your biological classification (which, incidentally was defined by Linnaeus , a creationist)?
Quote Perhaps you should aim a bit higher than being satisfied with being an animal though. After all, you have more than instinct. You have a conscience and you can reason. You can do things that animals and apes cannot. Tap into that which you can have that animals cannot. I think this says more about you than the rest of us. I prefer to stay out of your struggle to stay ignorant.
Quote Jude 1:10
Yet these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals—these are the very things that destroy them.But if you want to be an ape, then your carnal nature will rule you till the end and like animals you will perish.
What I want is irrelevant to the question. You quote a biblical understanding that is ignorant of human nature, even for the time it was written.
Quote One day this planet will be inhabited by the righteous sons of God. It won't be Planet of the Apes. We’ve been waiting 2000 years, and still it’s apes! Have you ever tried brachiating? I bet you did on the playground equipment when you were at school.
Stuart
Quote We’ve been waiting 2000 years, and still it’s apes! Have you ever tried brachiating? I bet you did on the playground equipment when you were at school. Good one Stu. I admit, I had to look that one up in the dictionary.
TimQuote (Stu @ Dec. 14 2007,17:35) Hi Kenrch Quote …That is exactly why “some” atheist scientist are coming around to creation. NOT that they believe in the God of the bible mind you but they believe in something “behind” all that has happened…life!
Name five.Quote Nothing from nothing leaves nothing. How could there be something from nothing.
Good question. Are you searching for an answer, or a gap to wedge a god into?Quote I'm an animal lover (even apes) I can tell you animals learn. They respond to word association, though limited they do think! Is that evidence of EVILoution? Simply, There is no animal crossing into another species, is there?
If animals can learn like humans can, isn’t that evidence of common ancestry?Quote Before scientist prehistoric man said that the earth is round; Isa. 40:22. How did a mind that was still evolving come to such knowledge?
The writer of Isaiah (whoever he was) is no different genetically to people today. That is not to say we have stopped evolving, but the difference between then and now is minimal. The bible supposedly describes events of history, not prehistory.Isaiah 40:22 calls it the circle of the earth, even though he had available to him words that mean ball or sphere. I don’t need to tell you that a circle is flat. Anyway, why does Matthew 4:8 say you can see all the kingdoms of the world from a high mountain? Surely this confirms that the earth is flat!
Quote The word of God proves itself by the fulfillment of prophecy. Destroy those who destroy the earth; Rev. 11:18.
Yes, the bible is big on destroying. Can you fix destruction with destruction?Quote If one would rather believe that Jesus is NOT the Messiah then there is Now a preacher for YOU! Today anything you believe their are those who would agree with you.
Sure. But did Jesus think he was the messiah? There is no unambiguous evidence for that.Quote So as in the beginning it comes down to faith: The substance of things not seen; 2Cor. 4:18; Heb.11:1:
It may for you, but it doesn’t for me. It comes down to evidence of the 'seen', which is the only thing we can unquestionably rely on together, across different cultures and beliefs.Quote Heb 11:3 By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.
We know that all matter is made out of atoms and they in turn from subatomic particles all of which are not visible. 'The word of god' is not a process recognised by science. Would you like to tell us how it organises matter?Quote The television evangelist has drawn those who are materialistic to a new realm showing their real god! Mat. 24:5 … and he charges handsomely for the service!
Quote Like a scavenger cleaning up behind all other animals so Stu does God's work! Behind him we have even a finer filter…Tow!
I pose less of a threat to you because you simply dismiss reality. Towshab is pointing your scripture back at you to expose the frailty in it, and that is much harder to ignore.Quote His will, WILL be done
Is that a statement about your god, or about Count Dracula? I find the two easily confused as the script is almost the same.Stuart
Like a scavenger cleaning up behind all other animals so Stu does God's work! Behind him we have even a finer filter…Tow!Even you Stu are doing God's work! Just as Judas did!
Just a tool that God uses to fulfill scripture. Why else would you be here arguing? Is because of your LOVE for your fellow man? If so where did this love come from? Why do you care what we believe?
Hi Kenrch
Quote Even you Stu are doing God's work! It would be encouraging to think that you were doing the work of science by challenging the theory of evolution on scientific grounds. Unfortunately, no-one here is.
Stuart
…again, this time with more competence…
Hi Kenrch
Quote Even you Stu are doing God's work! It would be encouraging to think that you were doing the work of science by challenging the theory of evolution on scientific grounds. Unfortunately, no-one here is.
Stuart
Hi Stu,
We do not need to disprove the speculations of men because our faith does not depend on it as yours does.Quote (Stu @ Dec. 14 2007,20:10) Hi David Quote Even if it was flat, obviously you couldn't literally see all the kingdoms. It appears he was miraculously shown these kingdoms. Satan is capable of miracles? I bet they’re more interesting than the alleged messiah’s!
Quote If you step back and look at the earth, this is esentially what it is, a circle hanging on nothing.
What a remarkably odd description for back then, a description that I can't really see very many accepting.Except that it is ‘hanging’ on the gravitational attraction of the sun. And it is not a circle. And the bible is supposed to be inspired by an all-knowing being. Why did the Imaginary One mention it at all, if the result is a wrong description?
Stu: But did Jesus think he was the messiah? There is no unambiguous evidence for that.
Quote JOHN 4:25-26
“The woman said to him: “I know that Mes·si′ah is coming, who is called Christ. Whenever that one arrives, he will declare all things to us openly.” Jesus said to her: “I who am speaking to you am he.””The writer of John said that Jesus claimed to be the messiah. Does that show that Jesus actually said it?
Stuart
A miracle is something that is unexplainable by what we presently understand to be the laws of nature. Pretty much anything an angel or spirit creature does would appear to us as miracles–things impossible for us.Are we sure that the word translated “circle” can't also be translated sphere?
Regardless, the Bible isn't a science text book and it's point wasn't to explain exactly what the earth looks like. It was a side point that the earth was mentioned at all. And the fact that it is correct to any degree is miraculous considering the time it was written and the other ideas existing at that time.
“There is one who is dwelling above the circle of the earth.”
From the vantage point of above, the earth is a circle, no question. We've seen the photographs. No, it's not an exact circle, well, unless you were directly above or below it I guess, but again, the point is obvious.
There is one dwelling above the circle of the earth. Take a picture of the earth from anywhere but the earth, and you would see a circle.
Add to this that the earth is hanging on nothing…. back then, a thought that would have appeared as nonsense. It's not held up by anything…yes, yes, we know about gravity…but again, not a science text book. The mere fact that he didn't say it was held up by turtles or something like that is miraculous.If the circle of the earth hanging on nothing is a wrong description, then I'd hate to be around you, being corrected every 3 seconds or every time someone mentions a sun rise, etc.
JOHN 4:25-26
“The woman said to him: “I know that Mes·si′ah is coming, who is called Christ. Whenever that one arrives, he will declare all things to us openly.” Jesus said to her: “I who am speaking to you am he.””
This scripture and others make clear that Jesus claimed to be the Messiah. “I who am speaking to you am he [Messiah].”Before, you didn't seem to be questioning whether we can trust the Bible, but you questioned whether Jesus in the Bible ever said he was the Messiah. He did.
david
I wonder how much of this is just scientists putting their trust in other scientists. Their fields have grown more and more specialized. Is it possible they all just assume that the proof of evolution is in one of those other fields?
If one guy who is a scientist is in biology and another is in physics, the physics guy would pretty much have to conceed that the biologists know what they are talking about. And since you have to be buddy buddy with the other biologists and go with the flow, it's easy to see how that group could be so off track. Yes, people adapt. Yes, their skin color changes and their hair gets longer or shorter. We shouldn't confuse this with a single cell organism evolving into an animal.If a scientist knows that other scientists believe in evolution, they will most likely believe it also, even though they may not know much about the details themselves or have any real reason to believe it, other than the “authority” that tells them to.
Piltdown man.
Most scientists accepted this find as a genuine subhuman ancestor of man and for 45 years this find was considered to be a missing link between man and ape!
Of course, it was a total hoax. Someone had taken a human skull cap and a jaw of an orangutan, filled the teeth and planted the evidence.And yes, scientists did eventually correct this mistake. My question is:
Why was the fraud so successful?Could it be that evolutionary theory demanded the missing links so scientists found them.
They saw what they wanted to see. And they can be deceived and can accomplish self-deception on themselves.It is often claimed that science is objective and self-correcting, however in retrospect we see that the evidence to reject this find as legitimate was there all along. The file marks on the teeth of the lower jaw were clearly visible, the molars were misaligned and filed at two different angles. The canine teeth had been filed so far down that the pulp cavity had been exposed and plugged.
So, why?
Hi Stu,
So let me see.
You believe in science and you say evolution is scientific.
But then you say science is not absolute and provable but can be disproven.
So there are no true scientific facts but just a list of current probabilities that may change tomorrow.And it is on this basis that you cast scorn on those who do have a basis of belief?
Hi Stu,
So because you cannot be sure of anything you can't stand the idea that others can know things?
If you are so unsure of things how can you afford to condemn others who do believe?
Science does not seem to help you in your groping progress through life.
All you believe is what you think you see and that is not so far.
Not far enough to hold millions of others in contempt.Quote (Stu @ Dec. 14 2007,20:54) We are both animals. What else would we be? Can you show me the scriptural reason why you deny the fact of your biological classification (which, incidentally was defined by Linnaeus , a creationist)?
Of course we are animals. Our bodies are physical and share DNA code with the animal kingdom. Even daffodils have DNA in common with us. But we are much more than just physical beings Stu.We can ultimately become spiritual beings/sons of God.
We have this inheritance. But some men will never realise nor receive this because they remained as animals, because they let their physical instincts rule them.
Galatians 6:8
For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.You believe that when you are dead you will be no longer, or that you will decay. The scripture above agrees with you.
But you can change that. You can be a son of God with the privilege of eternal life.
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