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Hi Stu,
Good creation/evolution debate here, worth a read if you can spare the time.http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7709
Blessings
I acknowledge designers of cakes, bridges, molecules engineered to kill cancer cells, and anything else that was designed. I was not.
Perhaps Nick you could take the lead here and explain how the theory of special creation deals with the appearance of sexual reproduction in the history of living things.
Stuart
Quote (Is 1:18 @ July 24 2007,21:36) Hi Stu,
Good creation/evolution debate here, worth a read if you can spare the time.http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7709
Blessings
Correction: It's not really a creation/evolution debate per se, but a debate on the existence of God with many allusions to creation/evolution arguments….and definitely worth a read…
Hi Stu,
Certainly -from the mouth of God.
Gen 1
10And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.11And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Hi Stu,
Even if the orderly arrangements of the heavens were the result of one amazing fluke then the appearance of self perpetuating life itself is another problem. Even if the first life was another great fluke that first life already would have to contain the inherent ability to reproduce itself.Hi Is 1:18
Thank for the link. So far I have read Mr. Enyart put up Pascal's Wager (not the kind of bob-each way faith anyone could respect, really) and has mocked evolution for its inability to explain how complexity arises (actually it does explain this) while putting up far more complex designer, whose origins are too complex for him to explain.What do you think, Is 1:18, is there any point in debating with evidence the existence of a deity whose existence is meaningless without faith, faith that is the opposite of knowledge by evidence?
Stuart
Hi Nick,
You don't need much more that gravity to explain the arrangement of bodies in space. It doesn't seem to have any particular pattern to me (apart from repetitions of: gravity…collapse of gas cloud…nuclear fusion…supernova…planets form…life evolves…television invented…televangelists appear).
What do you see out there?The start of life is very difficult to explain. What detailed molecular mechanisms does the Theory of Creation give?
Stuart
Actually faith is defined in the Bible thusly:
“Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” (Heb 11:1, NKJV)
According to the Bible, if “faith” is not evidence-based it's not real faith….
I would reserve judgement until you read the entire debate, it's worth it, trust me.
Quote (Stu @ July 24 2007,22:00) What do you think, Is 1:18, is there any point in debating with evidence the existence of a deity whose existence is meaningless without faith…?
That's a bit of a paradoxical question. I suppose it depends on whether the deity really exists. If the deity does not and we are instead a product of random chance, a cosmic accident, everything is meaningless and nothing is worth debating…..Hi Stu,
Amazing stuff gravity.
So wonderful in it's harmony and balancing ability in the universe.
And the cute electrons that spin around each little nucleus in each little atom.
And the mitochondria and permeable cell walls and nuclei and chromosomes found even in the simplest of organisms.
But some believe all these little things all formed and worked together when lightning struck a swamp somewhere.Is 1:18 you would throw it all away on the strength of the existence or otherwise of a deity?
An atheist claims that there is no specific “why” for our existence (apart from explanations of the behaviour of matter). Do you know the motivation of your god? If not, there is no difference between knowing there is no “why”, and not being ABLE to know the “why”.
I take it you aren't even a little perplexed at the biazarre behaviour of the OT god which would call into question His motives?
Stuart
Nick is that the Creation Theory version of Godogenesis?
What is all this balancing and harmony stuff? Are you into Feng Shui? A New Ager?
Stuart
Quote Is 1:18 reads “Come now and let us reason together…” I like it!
Stuart
I like this part of the verse better:“Come now, and let us reason together,”Says the LORD, “Though your sins are as scarlet, They will be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They will be like wool.
Hi Nick,
What is, then? Your tag suggests that we should test all things. By what criteria do you test?
Stuart
Hi Stu,
Jn 17
“17… thy word is truth. “Scripture is the reaching out of God to men in words.
I love it.Quote (Stu @ July 24 2007,22:54) Nick, against what criteria do you judge the truth of scripture? Stuart
Hi Stu,
Scripture.Hi Stu,
I came from an Irish catholic background and was used to hearing scripture spoken throughout my early life. However hearing it was of no help to me except as a memory tool for later. I was a lost soul anxious and desperate for assurance and only sure of one thing, that I was a sinner in need of salvation.
After I was reborn I was astounded at the beauty and harmony of scripture and how it all fitted together like some gigantic jigsaw puzzle no matter who the human author was. The predictions that came literally true in detail throughout history showed me that this was a essential lifeline to God and was the closest thing we have to being able to hear Him calling to us.
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