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I have been asked on ocassion, questions regarding divorce and remarriage. I am interested in a discussion in order to search out the truths of this matter.
I will pose a scenario that must have an answer, yet is not easily identifiable from scripture. I have an answer in my mind and will debate this, but I need to test it out to see if it is so. I look forward to any replies.
Scenario as follows:
==============
If a man marries a woman and then the woman commits adultery and afterward she divorces the man. The man has not committed adultery and is sad when this happens. The woman then marries another man and has children and they stay together as husband and wife.
==============In this situation, is the first man free to marry again? If so, please backup your answers with scripture.
So far I think that we can all agree that a marriage is dissolved if one partner dies.
t8
It is sad indeed that the laws of the land override the Laws found in the Holy Scriptures.
Men can with the blessing of Yahweh have all the wives they can afford.
It is the Christian religion that has kept this world screwed up.
Why would any man in his right mind go out and commit
adultery when he can have more than one wife?Iyyob
Come on I am being serious.
I also asked if you could back up your answer with scripture.
If we can have more than 1 wife, then that would leave people with no wife at all.
t8
Its like I have said from the beginning trying to understand the Holy Scriptures reading only the english is like repairing a 747 Jumbo Jet with a Volkswagon Manaul it can’t be done.
Just to show you how screwed up the English traslations are please read Deuteronomy 21:15 and for pete sake remember the Creator NEVER Changes!
Its the traditions of men that the Messiah fought against. And we both know what they did to Him for standing up for those Laws found in the Torah!Iyyob
We have to agree to differ on the New Testament as being reliable.
Anybody else out there that can answer my original question from either the Old or New Testaments?
t8
You said NEW TESTAMENT was not reliable?
The verse I gave you was in Deuteronomy?
Do you not believe to First Volume either?
On what do you base your beliefs?Do you really want to know what the Scriptures say or not?
Iyyob
Thank You for this topic: ….. Matt:19:8 states: " Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so ." 9: states: "it is not good to marry". but the key word is "Except for fornication" . She committed the act therefore she has sinned. Not him.
Lev.21:7 states speaking about Holy men ; they shall not take a wife that is a whore, or profane; neither shall they take a woman put away from her husband: for he is holy unto his God" ….22:13 speaks about if a woman having no child returns to her home then no stranger shall in into that home or marriage. …. another way to say it: marry into your own faith. God’s people.
Isa. 50:1 This scripture read. …. for the Lord is inplied here to redeem His people. ( wash away sins).
Bottom line ; no ; except he repents. ( personal note)
Once you are enlighten unto the Lord and know His ways you are subject to the law. Paul gave an example
for it would be better to be like him ( without a wife ) . In good conscience we cannot divorce our wives. But if she divorces him. It would be better not to marry again.
happymanQuote Quote: from Iyyob on 5:33 am on Jan. 11, 2004
t8You said NEW TESTAMENT was not reliable?
The verse I gave you was in Deuteronomy?
Do you not believe to First Volume either?
On what do you base your beliefs?Do you really want to know what the Scriptures say or not?
Iyyob
To Iyyob,
Your verse in the Old Testament also quotes the following:
18 If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him,
19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town.
20 They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard.”
21 Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.The point I am making is that why should I start in grace and finish in the Law. Surely not. The new covenant is that much better because Yashua shed his blood for me that I may be sanctified. The Old covenant has been fulfilled in the new.
From the New Testament scriptures, I give you the following:
Ephesians 5:33
However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.1 Timothy 3:12
A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household wellTitus 1:6
An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.Although I cannot find one verse that condemns multiple wives (yet?), I certainly get the strong impression that a trustworthy and blameless man has no more than 1 wife.
The new covenant certainly doesn't seem to encourage the idea of multiple wives anywhere, rather it seems to discourage it. But it doesn't seem to condemn it either, from what I have read at least.
But then we also have the laws of the land that are to be respected and we would do well to obey those laws unless they lead us to sin against God.
Quote Bottom line ; no ; except he repents. ( personal note)
Once you are enlighten unto the Lord and know His ways you are subject to the law. Paul gave an example
for it would be better to be like him ( without a wife ) . In good conscience we cannot divorce our wives. But if she divorces him. It would be better not to marry again.
happyman
So you are saying that a man whose wife cheated on him and then divorces him for another man, leaves the original man free to marry, even though it may not be the best thing to do.In other words he doesn’t sin if he marries again, if his wife committed adultery and married another beforehand.
This is how I read what you said and it is what I currently think, but I am not 100% sure about it.
t8
According to you and what you believe King David is up the creek.
So is Father Abraham and all his sons.
Guess they did not understand what the Law says after all.
I’ll be sure to tell them you thought better of the instructions in the Torah than they did.Iyyob
To Iyyob,
No not at all.
Different expectations at different times. God allowed intermarriage of families in the beginning, but was forbidden in the Law.
Yahweh wanted to be Israel's King and the people wanted a King like the other nations. So God gave into their wants and set up King David on the throne to rule over them. But this came at a price, which included tithes and the taking of many daughters.
1 Samuel 8
1 When Samuel grew old, he appointed his sons as judges for Israel. 2 The name of his firstborn was Joel and the name of his second was Abijah, and they served at Beersheba. 3 But his sons did not walk in his ways. They turned aside after dishonest gain and accepted bribes and perverted justice.
4 So all the elders of Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah. 5 They said to him, “You are old, and your sons do not walk in your ways; now appoint a king to lead us, such as all the other nations have.”
6 But when they said, “Give us a king to lead us,” this displeased Samuel; so he prayed to the LORD . 7 And the LORD told him: “Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king. 8 As they have done from the day I brought them up out of Egypt until this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so they are doing to you. 9 Now listen to them; but warn them solemnly and let them know what the king who will reign over them will do.”
10 Samuel told all the words of the LORD to the people who were asking him for a king. 11 He said, “This is what the king who will reign over you will do: He will take your sons and make them serve with his chariots and horses, and they will run in front of his chariots. 12 Some he will assign to be commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and others to plow his ground and reap his harvest, and still others to make weapons of war and equipment for his chariots. 13 He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers. 14 He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive groves and give them to his attendants. 15 He will take a tenth of your grain and of your vintage and give it to his officials and attendants. 16 Your menservants and maidservants and the best of your cattle [2] and donkeys he will take for his own use. 17 He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his slaves. 18 When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, and the LORD will not answer you in that day.”
19 But the people refused to listen to Samuel. “No!” they said. “We want a king over us. 20 Then we will be like all the other nations, with a king to lead us and to go out before us and fight our battles.”
21 When Samuel heard all that the people said, he repeated it before the LORD . 22 The LORD answered, “Listen to them and give them a king.”
Then Samuel said to the men of Israel, “Everyone go back to his town.”God allowed a lot of things in Old Testament times that were the result of the peoples hardness of heart and of course God loved David and blessed him with many things. But David was after all the King.
If we all want to take more than 1 wife, then where will all the extra women come from? In addition to that, if 50% of men have 2 wives, then the other 50% miss out. Does not the fact that the sexes are evenly divided show us that God intended for most of us to have a Father and Mother, and then cling to a wife or husband.
Mathew 19:4
4 “Haven't you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,'
5 and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh' ?Hi T8 …. The bible does say that we can be forgiven of our sins. But in this case , the man was not to be blamed for sin for he didn’t committ it. I have found no scripture to answer the question other than Matt19:8" in the beginning this was not so". This is a problem that plaques churches throughout the world. " Apostal Paul said " Satan sent a messenger" could it be to that mans home?
…….(Opinions are like moments, they come and they
go.)………..Another interesting thread on marriage.
Deut 21.15 f sheds light on the true meaning of firstborn too.WHAT IS RIGHT?
A strange woman to one man may not be a strange to another
SHE IS SOME ONES REWARD?Pro 5:3 For the lips of a strange woman drop [as] an honeycomb, and her mouth [is] smoother than oil:
Pro 5:4 But her end is bitter as wormwood, sharp as a twoedged sword.Jobs intreats for the his childrens sake?
Job 19:15 They that dwell in mine house, and my maids, count me for a stranger: I am an alien in their sight.
Job 19:16 I called my servant, and he gave [me] no answer; I intreated him with my mouth.
Job 19:17 My breath is strange to my wife, though I intreated for the children's [sake] of mine own body.
Job 19:18 Yea, young children despised me; I arose, and they spake against me.
Job 19:19 All my inward friends abhorred me: and they whom I loved are turned against me.
Job 19:20 My bone cleaveth to my skin and to my flesh, and I am escaped with the skin of my teeth.
Job 19:21 ¶ Have pity upon me, have pity upon me, O ye my friends; for the hand of God hath touched me.
Job 19:22 Why do ye persecute me as God, and are not satisfied with my flesh?Quote (t8 @ Nov. 16 2003,03:53) I have been asked on ocassion, questions regarding divorce and remarriage. I am interested in a discussion in order to search out the truths of this matter. I will pose a scenario that must have an answer, yet is not easily identifiable from scripture. I have an answer in my mind and will debate this, but I need to test it out to see if it is so. I look forward to any replies.
Scenario as follows:
==============
If a man marries a woman and then the woman commits adultery and afterward she divorces the man. The man has not committed adultery and is sad when this happens. The woman then marries another man and has children and they stay together as husband and wife.
==============In this situation, is the first man free to marry again? If so, please backup your answers with scripture.
So far I think that we can all agree that a marriage is dissolved if one partner dies.
I think so yes.
Jesus said in Matthew 19:9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
So the way I understood it. Those that divorced on grounds of 'unfaithfulness' and marries again, does not commit adultery.
GBUA
PhoenixQuote (t8 @ Nov. 16 2003,03:53) I have been asked on ocassion, questions regarding divorce and remarriage. I am interested in a discussion in order to search out the truths of this matter. I will pose a scenario that must have an answer, yet is not easily identifiable from scripture. I have an answer in my mind and will debate this, but I need to test it out to see if it is so. I look forward to any replies.
Scenario as follows:
==============
If a man marries a woman and then the woman commits adultery and afterward she divorces the man. The man has not committed adultery and is sad when this happens. The woman then marries another man and has children and they stay together as husband and wife.
==============In this situation, is the first man free to marry again? If so, please backup your answers with scripture.
So far I think that we can all agree that a marriage is dissolved if one partner dies.
Hi t8:In your scenario I am assuming that both partners in this marriage are professing to be Christians, if so, the woman who committed adultery is considered an adulterous if she remarries and causes the person that she marries to commit adultery.
The man is free to remarry and does not commit adultery since his wife violated their marriage contract.
Matthew 5:32 states: “But I say unto you, that whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery”.
God Bless
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