Did Satan lie about the affect of the fruit to Eve

[Samuel]

Original WordWord Origin
hhwl) probably prolonged (emphat.) from (0410)
Transliterated WordPhonetic Spelling
'elowahh el-o'-ah rarely (shortened) 'eloahh el-o'-ah
Parts of SpeechTWOT
Noun Masculine 93b
Definition

1. God
2. false god

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Morningstar @ Oct. 23 2007,16:37)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 23 2007,15:34) Quote (Morningstar @ Oct. 23 2007,10:56) Zechariah 12 8 On that day the Lord will defend the people of Jerusalem; the weakest among them will be as mighty as King David! And the royal descendants will be like God (elohim), like the angel of the Lord who goes before them! (Jesus) MS There is a difference in being like God and being “a god”. 1 Cor 8:4 Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. 5 For even if there are *so-called gods* whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6 yet for us there is but **one God**, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. Call them gods if you like but they are not gods. Paul says they are “so called gods” and for us there is one God! Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. You are promoting “Henotheism” or “Polytheism” which the scriptures deny. The word “eloyhim” also mean judges and rulers so taking scriptures in their context and reconciling all scriptures together , God says there is no God before him nor after him. here is where the problem comes in. we are going to be elohim. sons of god. bible translators make elohim read god.  God calls his sons elohim.  translators call that word gods. it is the english language getting people all in a huff. because we use god as a name for God. it gets confusing and freaks out most people. God is Eloah. Sons of God are Elohim.

MS

You say…

Quote

here is where the problem comes in. we are going to be elohim. sons of god.

“Elohim” does not mean “Sons of God”.

Where does scriptures say we are gonna be “gods”.

You say…

Quote

bible translators make elohim read god.  God calls his sons elohim.  translators call that word gods.

Do you have any Greek or Hebrew credentials. Can you interpret Greek or Hebrew?

I think I will trust the translations and the translators over you. No offence.

You say…

Quote

it is the english language getting people all in a huff. because we use god as a name for God. it gets confusing and freaks out most people. God is Eloah. Sons of God are Elohim.

No you are the one that seems to be in a huff. You are trying to reinvent the wheel.

Besides, this theology of yours denys the very tenants of the faith.

So I repeat the previous scriptures that you didnt address…

There is a difference in being like God and being “a god”.

1 Cor 8:4
Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one.
5 For even if there are *so-called gods* whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords,
6 yet for us there is but **one God**, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

Call them gods if you like but they are not gods.

Paul says they are “so called gods” and for us there is one God!

Isa 43:10
Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

You are promoting “Henotheism” or “Polytheism” which the scriptures deny.

The word “eloyhim” also mean judges and rulers so taking scriptures in their context and reconciling all scriptures together , God says there is no God before him nor after him.

I suppose now you will respond with “the manuscripts are corrupt”.

[Morningstar]

I am going to use english for this post. Unfortunately we don't have the many different words for divine beings. So I will use the word God like the translators.

There is one omnipotent uncreated eternal GOD.

There are many many sons of God. gods!

The one supreme omnipotent GOD divided the nations and placed a regent over each of them. Jesus received Israel as his inheritence.

Nobody ever sees or hears God. So he uses his spirit to communicate and he uses his sons to rule and represent him. Every time a prophet spoke of seeing God they were seeing his regent son, Jesus, a god.

The other sons went bad and were sentenced to death.

Jesus the regent of israel inherited all nations.

At the resurrection we will rule with Christ replacing the fallen sons. We will be part of the family of God. We will be elohim. Regents and sons.

gods

[Samuel]

'elohiym el-o-heem'

means God like ones
Rulers Judges
Divine Ones

I do believe this is what he might be reffering to. I'm not really backing him up…well I guess I am but not intentionally …I'm just confirming that the word he speaks of although its spelled wrong…does mean what hes saying it does in a sense.

[Morningstar]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 23 2007,17:30)

Quote (Morningstar @ Oct. 23 2007,16:37) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 23 2007,15:34) Quote (Morningstar @ Oct. 23 2007,10:56) Zechariah 12 8 On that day the Lord will defend the people of Jerusalem; the weakest among them will be as mighty as King David! And the royal descendants will be like God (elohim), like the angel of the Lord who goes before them! (Jesus) MS There is a difference in being like God and being “a god”. 1 Cor 8:4 Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. 5 For even if there are *so-called gods* whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6 yet for us there is but **one God**, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. Call them gods if you like but they are not gods. Paul says they are “so called gods” and for us there is one God! Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. You are promoting “Henotheism” or “Polytheism” which the scriptures deny. The word “eloyhim” also mean judges and rulers so taking scriptures in their context and reconciling all scriptures together , God says there is no God before him nor after him. here is where the problem comes in. we are going to be elohim. sons of god. bible translators make elohim read god.  God calls his sons elohim.  translators call that word gods. it is the english language getting people all in a huff. because we use god as a name for God. it gets confusing and freaks out most people. God is Eloah. Sons of God are Elohim. MS You say… Quote here is where the problem comes in. we are going to be elohim. sons of god. “Elohim” does not mean “Sons of God”. Where does scriptures say we are gonna be “gods”. You say… Quote bible translators make elohim read god.  God calls his sons elohim.  translators call that word gods. Do you have any Greek or Hebrew credentials. Can you interpret Greek or Hebrew? I think I will trust the translations and the translators over you. No offence. You say… Quote it is the english language getting people all in a huff. because we use god as a name for God. it gets confusing and freaks out most people. God is Eloah. Sons of God are Elohim. No you are the one that seems to be in a huff. You are trying to reinvent the wheel. Besides, this theology of yours denys the very tenants of the faith. So I repeat the previous scriptures that you didnt address… There is a difference in being like God and being “a god”. 1 Cor 8:4 Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. 5 For even if there are *so-called gods* whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6 yet for us there is but **one God**, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. Call them gods if you like but they are not gods. Paul says they are “so called gods” and for us there is one God! Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. You are promoting “Henotheism” or “Polytheism” which the scriptures deny. The word “eloyhim” also mean judges and rulers so taking scriptures in their context and reconciling all scriptures together , God says there is no God before him nor after him. I suppose now you will respond with “the manuscripts are corrupt”.

Paul also said in the bit you didnt underline:

“as indeed there are many gods and many lords”

this is Key.

He doesn't know which lifeless statue may actually have a demonic or angelic counterpart.

If i make a clay doll and worship it. I am worshipping clay.

But, if I was to seriously bow down to a statue of Apollos. I might just be bowing to stone or I could be bowing to an image (whether accurate or not does not matter) of an actual angelic or demonic being like Apollyon.

So a statue is a “so called god” because it could be nothing. But their are actually “many gods and many lords”.

In the sense of fallen sons of God and demons.

Look here:

1 Corinthians 10:20

20No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons.

gods may not be omnipotent and eternal beings like the one true God. but they are spiritual beings who accept worship.
They are very simular to the gods of mythology.

honestly what is different between a demon or angel and lets say Aries.

Both are spiritual beings who receive worship, are petty, insight wars and murder etc. Aries wasn't all powerful neither is a demon or angel.

They are very simular.

[Morningstar]

Idolatry is the worship of anything other than the true God of the Bible. The Sons of God, who first appear briefly in Genesis 6:1–4, were worshipped by the gentile peoples of the world as their “gods” with God the Father’s permission both before and after the flood of Noah. The Sons of God were designated or allotted to rule gentile nations in religious matters by YHWH Himself. Information about the Sons of God is important in the development of idolatry in the world. In the past, gods other than YHWH existed (and they exist today), but they were as nothing compared to God the Father.

Two verses must be kept in mind as we go through the information regarding the Sons of God in Scripture. Both verses were written by the apostle Paul:

“For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth,
(as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is
but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and
[but] one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.”

1 Corinthians 8:5–6

What did Paul mean by the words “to us”? He meant those of us who believe that Jesus was the Son of God who incarnated, lived, was crucified, died, was resurrected, and ascended into heaven as the Messiah, the Christ. Paul’s other verse gives us more information:

“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”

1 Timothy 2:5

There are, however, other “gods” (small “g”) who were (and are) supernatural beings mentioned and discussed throughout Scripture.

Monotheism is the doctrine and belief that there is only one God. “Monotheism” is a descriptive term of theology and it is not actually used in Scripture. Israel was not monotheistic. Israel is shown throughout the Old Testament as having a religious belief system called “henotheism,” which is simply defined in Webster’s New World Dictionary as “belief in one god, without denying the existence of others.” Clearly it was Israel’s biblical understanding that gods other than YHWH existed. It was worship of these other gods that caused Israel to apostatize, suffer destruction, and eventual exile from their allotted lands. After the exile Israel never again sought after other gods, but went to the other extreme, to a false monotheism and a denial that other gods ever existed.
They went so far as to have sects like the sadducees who didn't believe in angels, spirits or the resurrection.

Jesus didnt seem to agree with them.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Morningstar @ Oct. 23 2007,18:11)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 23 2007,17:30) Quote (Morningstar @ Oct. 23 2007,16:37) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 23 2007,15:34) Quote (Morningstar @ Oct. 23 2007,10:56) Zechariah 12 8 On that day the Lord will defend the people of Jerusalem; the weakest among them will be as mighty as King David! And the royal descendants will be like God (elohim), like the angel of the Lord who goes before them! (Jesus) MS There is a difference in being like God and being “a god”. 1 Cor 8:4 Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. 5 For even if there are *so-called gods* whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6 yet for us there is but **one God**, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. Call them gods if you like but they are not gods. Paul says they are “so called gods” and for us there is one God! Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. You are promoting “Henotheism” or “Polytheism” which the scriptures deny. The word “eloyhim” also mean judges and rulers so taking scriptures in their context and reconciling all scriptures together , God says there is no God before him nor after him. here is where the problem comes in. we are going to be elohim. sons of god. bible translators make elohim read god.  God calls his sons elohim.  translators call that word gods. it is the english language getting people all in a huff. because we use god as a name for God. it gets confusing and freaks out most people. God is Eloah. Sons of God are Elohim. MS You say… Quote here is where the problem comes in. we are going to be elohim. sons of god. “Elohim” does not mean “Sons of God”. Where does scriptures say we are gonna be “gods”. You say… Quote bible translators make elohim read god.  God calls his sons elohim.  translators call that word gods. Do you have any Greek or Hebrew credentials. Can you interpret Greek or Hebrew? I think I will trust the translations and the translators over you. No offence. You say… Quote it is the english language getting people all in a huff. because we use god as a name for God. it gets confusing and freaks out most people. God is Eloah. Sons of God are Elohim. No you are the one that seems to be in a huff. You are trying to reinvent the wheel. Besides, this theology of yours denys the very tenants of the faith. So I repeat the previous scriptures that you didnt address… There is a difference in being like God and being “a god”. 1 Cor 8:4 Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. 5 For even if there are *so-called gods* whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6 yet for us there is but **one God**, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. Call them gods if you like but they are not gods. Paul says they are “so called gods” and for us there is one God! Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. You are promoting “Henotheism” or “Polytheism” which the scriptures deny. The word “eloyhim” also mean judges and rulers so taking scriptures in their context and reconciling all scriptures together , God says there is no God before him nor after him. I suppose now you will respond with “the manuscripts are corrupt”. Paul also said in the bit you didnt underline: “as indeed there are many gods and many lords” this is Key. He doesn't know which lifeless statue may actually have a demonic or angelic counterpart. If i make a clay doll and worship it.  I am worshipping clay. But, if I was to seriously bow down to a statue of Apollos.  I might just be bowing to stone or I could be bowing to an image (whether accurate or not does not matter) of an actual angelic or demonic being like Apollyon. So a statue is a “so called god” because it could be nothing.  But their are actually “many gods and many lords”. In the sense of fallen sons of God and demons.   Look here: 1 Corinthians 10:20 20No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. gods may not be omnipotent and eternal beings like the one true God.  but they are spiritual beings who accept worship. They are very simular to the gods of mythology.   honestly what is different between a demon or angel and lets say Aries. Both are spiritual beings who receive worship, are petty, insight wars and murder etc. Aries wasn't all powerful neither is a demon or angel.   They are very simular.

MS

Then Paul lied when he said that there is only “One God”!

Then Isaiah lied when he sa
id…

Isa 43:10
Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

The Hebrews believed in One God and everything else was “false gods” or not “gods” at all.

Elohim can also be translated as judges and rulers Etc.

You are teaching blatant Henotheism and Polytheism which is contrary to the Heb scriptures. And there are many like Isa 43:10.

[Morningstar]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 24 2007,11:31)

Quote (Morningstar @ Oct. 23 2007,18:11) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 23 2007,17:30) Quote (Morningstar @ Oct. 23 2007,16:37) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 23 2007,15:34) Quote (Morningstar @ Oct. 23 2007,10:56) Zechariah 12 8 On that day the Lord will defend the people of Jerusalem; the weakest among them will be as mighty as King David! And the royal descendants will be like God (elohim), like the angel of the Lord who goes before them! (Jesus) MS There is a difference in being like God and being “a god”. 1 Cor 8:4 Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. 5 For even if there are *so-called gods* whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6 yet for us there is but **one God**, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. Call them gods if you like but they are not gods. Paul says they are “so called gods” and for us there is one God! Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. You are promoting “Henotheism” or “Polytheism” which the scriptures deny. The word “eloyhim” also mean judges and rulers so taking scriptures in their context and reconciling all scriptures together , God says there is no God before him nor after him. here is where the problem comes in. we are going to be elohim. sons of god. bible translators make elohim read god.  God calls his sons elohim.  translators call that word gods. it is the english language getting people all in a huff. because we use god as a name for God. it gets confusing and freaks out most people. God is Eloah. Sons of God are Elohim. MS You say… Quote here is where the problem comes in. we are going to be elohim. sons of god. “Elohim” does not mean “Sons of God”. Where does scriptures say we are gonna be “gods”. You say… Quote bible translators make elohim read god.  God calls his sons elohim.  translators call that word gods. Do you have any Greek or Hebrew credentials. Can you interpret Greek or Hebrew? I think I will trust the translations and the translators over you. No offence. You say… Quote it is the english language getting people all in a huff. because we use god as a name for God. it gets confusing and freaks out most people. God is Eloah. Sons of God are Elohim. No you are the one that seems to be in a huff. You are trying to reinvent the wheel. Besides, this theology of yours denys the very tenants of the faith. So I repeat the previous scriptures that you didnt address… There is a difference in being like God and being “a god”. 1 Cor 8:4 Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. 5 For even if there are *so-called gods* whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6 yet for us there is but **one God**, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. Call them gods if you like but they are not gods. Paul says they are “so called gods” and for us there is one God! Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. You are promoting “Henotheism” or “Polytheism” which the scriptures deny. The word “eloyhim” also mean judges and rulers so taking scriptures in their context and reconciling all scriptures together , God says there is no God before him nor after him. I suppose now you will respond with “the manuscripts are corrupt”. Paul also said in the bit you didnt underline: “as indeed there are many gods and many lords” this is Key. He doesn't know which lifeless statue may actually have a demonic or angelic counterpart. If i make a clay doll and worship it.  I am worshipping clay. But, if I was to seriously bow down to a statue of Apollos.  I might just be bowing to stone or I could be bowing to an image (whether accurate or not does not matter) of an actual angelic or demonic being like Apollyon. So a statue is a “so called god” because it could be nothing.  But their are actually “many gods and many lords”. In the sense of fallen sons of God and demons.   Look here: 1 Corinthians 10:20 20No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. gods may not be omnipotent and eternal beings like the one true God.  but they are spiritual beings who accept worship. They are very simular to the gods of mythology.   honestly what is different between a demon or angel and lets say Aries. Both are spiritual beings who receive worship, are petty, insight wars and murder etc. Aries wasn&# 39;t all powerful neither is a demon or angel.   They are very simular. MS Then Paul lied when he said that there is only “One God”! Then Isaiah lied when he said… Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. The Hebrews believed in One God and everything else was “false gods” or not “gods” at all. Elohim can also be translated as judges and rulers Etc. You are teaching blatant Henotheism and Polytheism which is contrary to the Heb scriptures. And there are many like Isa 43:10.

semantics semantics semantics

the english language has so messed up our theology

there is only one true eloah. GOD!!!!

Only he has always and will always be.

the other gods are his sons, whether rebellious or benevolent.

do you believe in angels? if not then make your case.

If you do then you do indeed believe in “other elohim”

[Morningstar]

“if the kjv were good enough for Paul then it is good enough for me.”

I heard a guy say that once.

the same logic is in place when one argues about the title “God”

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Morningstar @ Oct. 24 2007,12:03)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 24 2007,11:31) Quote (Morningstar @ Oct. 23 2007,18:11) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 23 2007,17:30) Quote (Morningstar @ Oct. 23 2007,16:37) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 23 2007,15:34) Quote (Morningstar @ Oct. 23 2007,10:56) Zechariah 12 8 On that day the Lord will defend the people of Jerusalem; the weakest among them will be as mighty as King David! And the royal descendants will be like God (elohim), like the angel of the Lord who goes before them! (Jesus) MS There is a difference in being like God and being “a god”. 1 Cor 8:4 Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. 5 For even if there are *so-called gods* whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6 yet for us there is but **one God**, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. Call them gods if you like but they are not gods. Paul says they are “so called gods” and for us there is one God! Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. You are promoting “Henotheism” or “Polytheism” which the scriptures deny. The word “eloyhim” also mean judges and rulers so taking scriptures in their context and reconciling all scriptures together , God says there is no God before him nor after him. here is where the problem comes in. we are going to be elohim. sons of god. bible translators make elohim read god.  God calls his sons elohim.  translators call that word gods. it is the english language getting people all in a huff. because we use god as a name for God. it gets confusing and freaks out most people. God is Eloah. Sons of God are Elohim. MS You say… Quote here is where the problem comes in. we are going to be elohim. sons of god. “Elohim” does not mean “Sons of God”. Where does scriptures say we are gonna be “gods”. You say… Quote bible translators make elohim read god.  God calls his sons elohim.  translators call that word gods. Do you have any Greek or Hebrew credentials. Can you interpret Greek or Hebrew? I think I will trust the translations and the translators over you. No offence. You say… Quote it is the english language getting people all in a huff. because we use god as a name for God. it gets confusing and freaks out most people. God is Eloah. Sons of God are Elohim. No you are the one that seems to be in a huff. You are trying to reinvent the wheel. Besides, this theology of yours denys the very tenants of the faith. So I repeat the previous scriptures that you didnt address… There is a difference in being like God and being “a god”. 1 Cor 8:4 Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. 5 For even if there are *so-called gods* whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6 yet for us there is but **one God**, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. Call them gods if you like but they are not gods. Paul says they are “so called gods” and for us there is one God! Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. You are promoting “Henotheism” or “Polytheism” which the scriptures deny. The word “eloyhim” also mean judges and rulers so taking scriptures in their context and reconciling all scriptures together , God says there is no God before him nor after him. I suppose now you will respond with “the manuscripts are corrupt”. Paul also said in the bit you didnt underline: “as indeed there are many gods and many lords” this is Key. He doesn't know which lifeless statue may actually have a demonic or angelic counterpart. If i make a clay doll and worship it.  I am worshipping clay. But, if I was to seriously bow down to a statue of Apollos.  I might just be bowing to stone or I could be bowing to an image (whether accurate or not does not matter) of an actual angelic or demonic being like Apollyon. So a statue is a “so called god” because it could be nothing.  But their are actually “many gods and many lords”. In the sense of fallen sons of God and demons.   Look here: 1 Corinthians 10:20 20No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. gods may not be omnipotent and eternal beings like the one true God.  but they are spiritual beings who accept worship. They are very simular to the gods of mythology.   honestly what is different between a demon or angel and lets say Aries. Both are spiritual beings who receive worship, are petty, insight wars and murder etc. Aries wasn't all powerful neither is a demon or angel.   They are very simular. MS Then Paul lied when he said that there is only “One God”! Then Isaiah lied when he said… Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. The Hebrews believed in One God and everything else was “false gods” or not “gods” at all. Elohim can also be translated as judges and rulers Etc. You are teaching blatant Henotheism and Polytheism which is contrary to the Heb scriptures. And there are many like Isa 43:10. semantics semantics semantics the english language has so messed up our theology there is only one true eloah.  GOD!!!! Only he has always and will always be. the other gods are his sons, whether rebellious or benevolent. do you believe in angels?  if not then make your case. If you do then you do indeed believe in “other elohim”

MS

No semantics.

Scriptures.

Isa 43:10
Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isa 44:6
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Isa 44:8
Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Isa 45:5
I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

Isa 45:21
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

Hsa 13:4
Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.

You cant read these scriptures and say that there is any other gods. You can call them gods if you want but the Lord says…

Exod 23:13
And in all things that I have said unto you be circumspect: and make no mention of the name of other gods, neither let it be heard out of thy mouth.

“elohiym”….

1) (plural)

a) rulers, judges

b) divine ones

c) angels

d) gods

2) (plural intensive – singular meaning)

a) god, goddess

b) godlike one

c) works or special possessions of God

d) the (true) God

e) God

Scriptures should be interpreted in their context to know wether “Elohiym” is the One True God or just another creature, ruler, Judge, etc.

Make no mention of other gods!

[Samuel]

To answer your question…yes…he lied.

Hes the author of confusion…hes lied about just about everything he can possibly lie about to just about everyone that would listen to him since Day 1. Hes the GOD of this age or world…and thats exactly how he acquired that title…by lying to Eve, who in turn lied to ADAM …to get it. You see lies are like vines…once one is told a host of other lies have to be told to cover up the previous one or ones. Actually, thats putting it rather nicely…Lies are actually more like BRAMBLES! Cause they deceive and hurt and cut the truth to pieces and they bring forth SIN…and when sin is finished it bringeth forth DEATH.

This is exactly why you should tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth at anytime. Because withholding part of the truth which is mainly what was done in this case is still a LIE.

[TimothyVI]

If the snake was satan, how was he in Eden before lucifer supposedly fell
to earth and became satan?

Tim

[Towshab]

Quote (TimothyVI @ Oct. 27 2007,07:49)

If the snake was satan, how was he in Eden before lucifer supposedly fell to earth and became satan? Tim

The snake was not satan.

Lucifer is an invention of the catholic church.

Is 14:12 is talking about Nebuchadnezzar.

[Morningstar]

Quote (TimothyVI @ Oct. 28 2007,00:49)

If the snake was satan, how was he in Eden before lucifer supposedly fell to earth and became satan? Tim

Where do you get that satan fell later?

[Morningstar]

Quote (Towshab @ Oct. 28 2007,01:08)

Quote (TimothyVI @ Oct. 27 2007,07:49) If the snake was satan, how was he in Eden before lucifer supposedly fell to earth and became satan? Tim The snake was not satan. Lucifer is an invention of the catholic church. Is 14:12 is talking about Nebuchadnezzar.

Yes Lucifer is an invented name of Satan.

Satan is not an invention of the Catholic Church, however.

Is 14:12 is talking about Nebuchadnezzar some of the time and the Principality that was set over him the other part of the time.

It is true that this does not mean Satan and most likely is not. (I believe satan was the morning star placed over eden who fell from grace setting the example for the other fallen elohim)

[Towshab]

I'd be careful with the 'morning star' star references. Let's look at the Isaiah passage since Christians like to take Jewish bible verses out of context to show Jewish fulfilled many of them. Watch this.
——————–
Isa 14:9 [HNV] Sheol from beneath has moved for you to meet you at your coming. It stirs up the dead for you, even all the rulers of the earth. It has raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

Mat 27:52 The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the holy ones who had fallen asleep were raised;
Mat 27:53 and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection, they entered into the holy city and appeared to many.
——————–
Creepy huh? Seems Jesus may be one Isaiah is speaking about in Is 14. Wait, there's more
——————–
Isa 14:12 How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, who laid the nations low!

Rev 22:16 I, Yeshua, have sent my angel to testify these things to you for the assemblies. I am the root and the offspring of David; the Bright and Morning Star.”
++++++++++++++++
Isa 14:12 How you have fallen {descended} from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, who laid the nations low!
Isa 14:13 You said in your heart, “I will ascend into heaven! I will exalt my throne above the stars {angels} of God! I will sit on the mountain of assembly, in the far north!

Joh 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven, but he who descended out of heaven, the Son of Man, who is in heaven.

Heb 1:4 having become so much better than the angels {stars}, as he has inherited a more excellent name than they have.
———————
Eery. Jesus came down from heaven and ascended. The one spoken of in Is 14 came from heaven and ascended. He said he would be above the stars, Hebrews says Jesus is above the angels. There are many who believe angels and stars are the same. But let's not stop!
———————
Isa 14:15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, to the depths of the pit.
———————
Jesus died and was placed in the grave (Sheol). Also, many people have this idea that Jesus descended into hell when he died to get the keys to death and the grave.
——————–
Isa 14:15 (KJV) Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
——————–
Let's move on
——————–
Isa 14:16 Those who see you will stare at you. They will ponder you, saying, “Is this the man who made the earth to tremble, who shook kingdoms;

Luk 23:37 and saying, “If you are the King of the Jews, save yourself!”

Mat 27:40 and saying, “You who destroy the temple, and build it in three days, save yourself! If you are the Son of God, come down from the cross!”

Mat 27:42 “He saved others, but he can’t save himself. If he is the King of Israel, let him come down from the cross now, and we will believe in him.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Isa 14:19 But you are cast away from your tomb like an abominable branch, clothed with the slain, who are thrust through with the sword, who go down to the stones of the pit; like a dead body trodden under foot.

Joh 19:34 However one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out.
—————————
Like I said, trying to make Jesus fit Jewish scriptures out of context can be done in several manners. So be careful when you try to say he fulfilled so many prophecies.

[Morningstar]

Quote (Towshab @ Oct. 28 2007,03:43)

I'd be careful with the 'morning star' star references. Let's look at the Isaiah passage since Christians like to take Jewish bible verses out of context to show Jewish fulfilled many of them. Watch this. ——————– Isa 14:9 [HNV] Sheol from beneath has moved for you to meet you at your coming. It stirs up the dead for you, even all the rulers of the earth. It has raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. Mat 27:52 The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the holy ones who had fallen asleep were raised; Mat 27:53 and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection, they entered into the holy city and appeared to many. ——————– Creepy huh? Seems Jesus may be one Isaiah is speaking about in  Is 14. Wait, there's more ——————– Isa 14:12 How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, who laid the nations low!     Rev 22:16 I, Yeshua, have sent my angel to testify these things to you for the assemblies. I am the root and the offspring of David; the Bright and Morning Star.” ++++++++++++++++ Isa 14:12 How you have fallen {descended} from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, who laid the nations low! Isa 14:13 You said in your heart, “I will ascend into heaven! I will exalt my throne above the stars {angels} of God! I will sit on the mountain of assembly, in the far north! Joh 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven, but he who descended out of heaven, the Son of Man, who is in heaven. Heb 1:4 having become so much better than the angels {stars}, as he has inherited a more excellent name than they have. ——————— Eery. Jesus came down from heaven and ascended. The one spoken of in Is 14 came from heaven and ascended. He said he would be above the stars, Hebrews says Jesus is above the angels. There are many who believe angels and stars are the same. But let's not stop! ——————— Isa 14:15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, to the depths of the pit. ——————— Jesus died and was placed in the grave (Sheol). Also, many people have this idea that Jesus descended into hell when he died to get the keys to death and the grave. ——————– Isa 14:15 (KJV)  Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. ——————– Let's move on ——————– Isa 14:16 Those who see you will stare at you. They will ponder you, saying, “Is this the man who made the earth to tremble, who shook kingdoms; Luk 23:37 and saying, “If you are the King of the Jews, save yourself!” Mat 27:40 and saying, “You who destroy the temple, and build it in three days, save yourself! If you are the Son of God, come down from the cross!” Mat 27:42 “He saved others, but he can’t save himself. If he is the King of Israel, let him come down from the cross now, and we will believe in him. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Isa 14:19 But you are cast away from your tomb like an abominable branch, clothed with the slain, who are thrust through with the sword, who go down to the stones of the pit; like a dead body trodden under foot. Joh 19:34 However one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out. ————————— Like I said, trying to make Jesus fit Jewish scriptures out of context can be done in several manners. So be careful when you try to say he fulfilled so many prophecies.

Morning star appears to be an extremely high rank of elohim. One morning star fell.

Jesus is a high ranking morning star as well who actually was lifted to an even higher status. Trying to say they are the same being is just a way of trampling under foot Christ.

Plus, by you asserting that you are accepting the fact that an angelic being is in fact being talked about.

There are many morning stars. They (plural) rejoiced at creation in Job.

[Towshab]

No, I'm just trying to say that where Christians can take Jewish scripture and try to read Jesus into them, I can do the same but in a negative connotation. Therefore, all of the supposedly fulfilled prophecies can be countered with negative prophecies.

[Proclaimer]

But even then, the negative ones could also apply in many cases. Jesus died along with criminals. He became a curse on our behalf so we could escape the curse of the law. He became something he was not, so that we could become something we were not.

BTW, there are Morning Stars (plural).

He is THE Morning Star.

Likewise there are many lords, but he is the Lord.

Similarly, there are many presidents, but there is one president overall.

Scripture says that Jesus is the son of God, and yet there are many sons.

[Morningstar]

Quote (t8 @ Oct. 29 2007,14:33)

But even then, the negative ones could also apply in many cases. Jesus died along with criminals. He became a curse on our behalf so we could escape the curse of the law. He became something he was not, so that we could become something we were not. BTW, there are Morning Stars (plural). He is THE Morning Star. Likewise there are many lords, but he is the Lord. Similarly, there are many presidents, but there is one president overall. Scripture says that Jesus is the son of God, and yet there are many sons.

exactly!!!

[Author]

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