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My source for this post is a blog and therefore it has errors within it and may be biased. Despite that I believe it is food for a discussion. Perhaps we can verify or correct its points as we go.
I have brought this issue up as I have seen some who seem to hold to the belief that the material world is corrupt and the spirit is not or at least a variation of that idea.
radicaltheologians.blogspot.com on May 8, 2006 reads:
Quote Flesh is Corrupt, Spirit is Good
Because God and the Spirit world is where all good comes from, then spiritual things are the only things that are good. This also means that the physical universe we live in is automatically crippled, automatically prone toward weakness. This weakness is called by the platonic Christians the flesh. The flesh is corruptible, able to drift further and further from the Spirit, which is pure good. Fundamentally, the more physical—the flesh—the more corruption and evil. The more Spirit, the more purity and good.
radicaltheologians.blogspot.com on May 8, 2006 reads:
Quote Heaven is Living in Spirit
The ultimate goal of every platonic Christian is, therefore, the stripping away of our bodies—our corrupt flesh—and living in spirit in the presence of God. This is heaven—a pure spiritual existence. In heaven God is the continuous focus, and all who enter heaven take full satisfaction and pleasure in adoring and contemplating God, the Pure Spirit, the Source of all Things.
hi kerwin
i do believe we have to separate the spirit of truth of God with the evil spirits of satan and is angels.
Paul said everyting that is good comes from God ,but this does not mean wathever comes from the spirit is thrue and good.
understand the difference.Yes I would say he played a large role in corrupting christianity.
Origen sought to reinterpret Christianity in terms of Greek philosophy.
PLATONISM AND CHRISTIANITY.
http://www.ccel.org/s/schaff/encyc/encyc09/htm/ii.cxxxiii.htm
Christian Platonism
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/115170/Christian-Platonism
Origen: Platonic Christian
http://www.vision.org/visionmedia/article.aspx?id=541
Christian Platonistm and Christian Neoplatonism
http://www.john-uebersax.com/plato/cp.htm
In speaking of flesh the Old Testament writes wrote:
Genesis 6:12(KJV) reads:
Quote And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
Psalma 78:39(KJV) reads:
Quote For he remembered that they were but flesh; a wind that passeth away, and cometh not again.
Psalms 145:21(KJV) reads:
Quote My mouth shall speak the praise of the LORD: and let all flesh bless his holy name for ever and ever.
Ecclesiastes 5:6(KJV) reads:
Quote Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin; neither say thou before the angel, that it was an error: wherefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands?
Ecclesiastes 11:10(KJV) reads:
Quote Therefore remove sorrow from thy heart, and put away evil from thy flesh: for childhood and youth are vanity.
In speaking of the spirit they wrote:
Exodus 6:9(KJV) reads:
Quote And Moses spake so unto the children of Israel: but they hearkened not unto Moses for anguish of spirit, and for cruel bondage.
Numbers 5:14(KJV) reads:
Quote And the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be defiled: or if the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be not defiled:
Deuteronomy 2:30(KJV) reads:
Quote But Sihon king of Heshbon would not let us pass by him: for the LORD thy God hardened his spirit, and made his heart obstinate, that he might deliver him into thy hand, as appeareth this day.
1 Samuel 1:15(KJV) reads:
Quote And Hannah answered and said, No, my lord, I am a woman of a sorrowful spirit: I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but have poured out my soul before the LORD.
Psalms 32:2(KJV) reads:
Quote Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
Psalms 51:10(KJV) reads:
Quote Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
Psalms 78:8(KJV) reads:
Quote And might not be as their fathers, a stubborn and rebellious generation; a generation that set not their heart aright, and whose spirit was not stedfast with God.
Proverbs 11:13(KJV) reads:
Quote A talebearer revealeth secrets: but he that is of a faithful spirit concealeth the matter.
Proverbs 16:18(KJV) reads:
Quote Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
Proverbs 16:19(KJV) reads:
Quote Better it is to be of an humble spirit with the lowly, than to divide the spoil with the proud.
Ecclesiastes 7:8(KJV) reads:
Quote Better is the end of a thing than the beginning thereof: and the patient in spirit is better than the proud in spirit.
Isaiah 19:14(KJV) reads:
Quote The LORD hath mingled a perverse spirit in the midst thereof: and they have caused Egypt to err in every work thereof, as a drunken man staggereth in his vomit.
Which regulates your behavior, whether it be corrupt or righteous?
hi con
i went to the sites i did not find anything there ,beside talking a lot atfer Christ fourth century 1500century ,AD
for anyone to know plato is fourth century B>C,Origen, is late second century to early third century he never was a platonic christian,he was a bible schollar,he was fuent in greek,latin,hebrew.a exemple as a christian,but hated by the churche in Jerusalem Bishop.
i have study socratis,plato,origen,augustin,and many others there is lots to learn in History,there is no changes all in history good men have been surounded by hatred and jalousie,this is the paradox of good versus bad.
Hi KW,
So it is other influences that lead men to behave in such ways?
Men do not share a spirit and the spirit given man is not corrupt.hi con
it is the inside of man were we have to look, the scriptures ;through the fear of the LORD a man avoids evil ;Prov 16;6
a man who controls his temper than one who takes a city ;Prov;16-32
Pr 15:14 The discerning heart seeks knowledge
Pr 15:21 Folly delights a man who lacks judgment,
but a man of understanding keeps a straight course
Pr 13:10 Pride only breeds quarrels,
but wisdom is found in those who take advicethere is more
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 19 2009,03:33) Hi KW,
Do you think mankind has a corrupted spirit?
Does mankind share such a spirit?
We share it in the same way we share a genetic code which we also inherit form our ancestors.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 20 2009,08:40) Hi KW,
So it is other influences that lead men to behave in such ways?
Men do not share a spirit and the spirit given man is not corrupt.
It is certainly not the flesh according to the Old Testament. I would venture to say it is not the flesh according the the New either but rather people are applying a Platonist interpretation to the words of Paul who was probably thinking more along the lines the lines that man = flesh that is advanced in the Old Testament. In other words the flesh nature or nature of man. He obviously meant after the fall.It is also clear from scripture that the spirit regulates our behavior, and determines whether it is righteous or wicked.
I can see how you confuse the breath of life with the spirit that regulates behavior as both can be “ruwach” in Scripture. The ruwach of life does return to God upon our first death as we sleep in the grave. I am not going to say the same about the ruwach that regulates behavior.
Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 19 2009,18:37) hi con
i went to the sites i did not find anything there ,beside talking a lot atfer Christ fourth century 1500century ,AD
for anyone to know plato is fourth century B>C,Origen, is late second century to early third century he never was a platonic christian,he was a bible schollar,he was fuent in greek,latin,hebrew.a exemple as a christian,but hated by the churche in Jerusalem Bishop.
i have study socratis,plato,origen,augustin,and many others there is lots to learn in History,there is no changes all in history good men have been surounded by hatred and jalousie,this is the paradox of good versus bad.
Anaximander (about 611-547 BCE)
Anaximenes (d. 528 BCE)
Heraclitus (fl. c.500 BCE) ***
Pythagoras (about 582-504 BCE)
Damon (5th C. BCE)Eleatic doctrine of the One
Xenophanes (born about 570 BCE)**
Parmenides (b. 510 BCE)
Zeno’s Paradoxes
Empedocles (born 492 BCE)
Anaxagoras (born about 500 BCE)Leucippus (5th C. BCE)
Democritus (born about 460 BCE)Sophists
Protagoras (fl. 5th C. BCE)
Gorgias (483—375 BCE)
Hippias (fl. 5th C. BCE)
Prodicus (fl. 5th C. BCE)Socrates and his Followers
Athenian Socrates (469-399 BCE)
Xenophon (c.430—c.350 BCE)
Euclides (c. 430—360 BCE) – founder of the Megarian or Eristic sect.
Stilpo (c.380—330 BCE)
Antisthenes (c.446—366 BCE) – founder or a forerunner of Cynicism.
Aristippus (c.435—356 BCE) – founder of the Cyrenaic school of philosophy.
Demonax (2nd C. CE.)
Plato of Athens (428-348 BCE) – The school founded by Plato, called the Academy. ****
Aristotle (384-322 BCE)*** Heraclitus is the first Western philosopher to go beyond physical theory in search of metaphysical foundations and moral applications.
** The father of pantheism, who declared God to be the eternal unity, permeating the universe, and governing it by his thought.
**** Both aspects of the genius of Socrates were first united in Plato of Athens (428-348 BCE), who also combined with them many the principles established by earlier philosophers, and developed the whole of this material into the unity of a comprehensive system. The groundwork of Plato’s scheme, though nowhere expressly stated by him, is the threefold division of philosophy into dialectic, ethics, and physics; its central point is the theory of forms. This theory is a combination of the Eleatic doctrine of the One with Heraclitus’s theory of a perpetual flux and with the Socratic method of concepts. The multitude of objects of sense, being involved in perpetual change, are thereby deprived of all genuine existence. The only true being in them is founded upon the forms, the eternal, unchangeable (independent of all that is accidental, and therefore perfect) types, of which the particular objects of sense are imperfect copies. The quantity of the forms is defined by the number of universal concepts which can be derived from the particular objects of sense.Plato
http://www.iep.utm.edu/plato/Neoplatonism
http://www.iep.utm.edu/neoplato/
hi con
i am surprist you did not mention socratis court case ,and how who did not know Christ ,could love thruth so mucht,and die for it,
in this century past we ad a five foot little man,fight the britanique empire in his country and win,Gandhi,this man loved thruth it self,one day a women ask him to tell her little boy to stop eating sugar because he was alergic to it,Gandhi told the women to come back in two weeks.
wen she came back Gandhi pick up the boy put him on his lap and said you have to promes me not to touch sugar anymore,so the boy promess to do so.
the mother felt so frustrated ,that she said to Gandhi,why could you not say this two weeks ago she said i have traval for days to come here,Gandhi told the women two weeks ago i was still eating sugar,he did not want to become a hyphocrite,(teach others wath do no fallow )he also said to the brits “i love your Christ ,I hate your christians,gess why?
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